Income letter from US consulate

[Spaniel]

My retirement visa expires on 10 April and I will probably go to Chang Wattana Immigration in mid-March to renew it.    If I get the income letter from the US consulate in December, before they stop issuing them, will it still be accepted by Immigration in March?   Seems I read some where that these letter were valid for 6 months from date of issue.

I will be splitting the B800,000 between the income letter and bank  letter for around B500,000 which I will have on deposit in December.

[Moonlover]

Yes, the letters are valid for 6 months from date of issue and as far as everyone is aware, there has been no change of policy by Thai Imm.

 

Best to check with closer to the date I would suggest.

 

ML

[scottiejohn]

RECEIVED FROM MY AGENT YESTERDAY
 

Big Announcement from Consulate and Embassy in Thailand
  
 Dear Valued Clients, 
 Big Announcement from British Embassy in Bangkok, 
 the United States Embassy in Bangkok and the U.S. Consulate 
 General in Chiang Mai, 
 and the Australian Embassy Thailand. 
 From 1st January 2019, the Consulate and Embassy in Thailand 
 will no longer be providing 
 an income affidavit or bank balances for Thai Immigration 
 purposes. 
 A kind update about the British Embassy in Bangkok, the United States Embassy in Bangkok, 
 the U.S. Consulate General in Chiang Mai, and the Australian Embassy. 
 We would like to inform and confirm that as of 1st January 2019 onward the British Embassy wil stop providing their Proof of Income service (Stat Dec/Affidavit) because it is unable to fulfil the Thai authorities’ 
 requirements to verify the income of British Nationals. 
 They also stated that al British Nationals concerned should note that the last date for income letter applications is 12th December 2018. 
 As for the the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok and the U.S. Consulate in Chiang Mai and the Australian Embassy:
 • For the Australian Embassy: Effective 7th January 2019
 • For the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok and the U.S. Consulate in Chiang Mai: Effective 1st January 2019
 * And both of U.S. Embassy & Consulate will not notarize previous versions of the income affidavit. 
 If you previously relied on a proof of income statement from the Consulate/Embassy for your visa renewal the below are your alternative options:
 • For those whose visas will expire in November 2018 – May 2019, you can still get the Proof of Income certified by the Consulate/Embassy before 12th December 2018 (for British Nationals) 
 and before 30th December 2018 (for U.S. Nationals and Australian Nationals), and col etc it until it can be used when it’s time for the visa renewal. 
 Due to the fact that the Proof of Income from the Consulate/Embassy will valid for 6 months, if you obtain it in November or December 2018, it will still be efficient in until April – May 2019. 
 Another option is for you to demonstrate that you have an amount of at least 800,000 THB (for  Retirement Visa) or 400,000 THB (for Marriage Visa) in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application. 
 • For those whose visas will expire in June 2019 onward, the only option is to demonstrate that you have an amount of at least 800,000 THB (for Retirement Visa) or 400,000 THB (for Marriage Visa) in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application. 
 * A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Retirement Visa or Marriage Visa afterward. 
 However, please note that even though the Proof of Income,  which has been certified before 1st January 2019 and will be 6 months goods, is accepted  by the immigration for the visa renewal at this moment.  The immigration has all rights to change the regulation without any warning in the  future and there might be some chances that this acceptance will no longer be  efficient. 
 We cannot provide any confirmation for the future incidence that might occur after  1st January 2019. 
 Thus, please be aware to consider the risk of the options above before you complete  your consideration. 
 If it’s our kind suggestion, we would suggest for you to prepare for the above options of putting money in your bank account rather than to presume the Thai immigration wil accept a “proof of income” statement up to 6  months after issued has they did in the past. 
 For more information, please kindly visit: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-embassy-bangkok-to-stop-certification-of-income-letters
 or personal y contact with the British Embassy in Bangkok through their contacts. 
  

PS;  English is as received.
 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Spaniel said:

If I get the income letter from the US consulate in December, before they stop issuing them, will it still be accepted by Immigration in March?

It’s possible, but we don’t know at this point what will be accepted after January as no official announcement has been made by immigration.

 

The current policy allows for letters to be up to 6 months old, but the question is whether or not immigration will accept letters after January in the old format (no confirmation that income has been validated).

[Spaniel]

Thanks all for the replies.      I  guess the big unknown is will Immigration accept the embassy income letter come in March when I go for renewal.    If they (Immigration) would not accept it then I would be screwed for the renewal as I would not have the time to deposit B800,000.    Looks like my best option is to transfer B800,000 in December.   

[Justin Side]

RECEIVED FROM MY AGENT YESTERDAY
 
Big Announcement from Consulate and Embassy in Thailand
  
 Dear Valued Clients, 
 Big Announcement from British Embassy in Bangkok, 
 the United States Embassy in Bangkok and the U.S. Consulate 
 General in Chiang Mai, 
 and the Australian Embassy Thailand. 
 From 1st January 2019, the Consulate and Embassy in Thailand 
 will no longer be providing 
 an income affidavit or bank balances for Thai Immigration 
 purposes. 
 A kind update about the British Embassy in Bangkok, the United States Embassy in Bangkok, 
 the U.S. Consulate General in Chiang Mai, and the Australian Embassy. 
 We would like to inform and confirm that as of 1st January 2019 onward the British Embassy wil stop providing their Proof of Income service (Stat Dec/Affidavit) because it is unable to fulfil the Thai authorities’ 
 requirements to verify the income of British Nationals. 
 They also stated that al British Nationals concerned should note that the last date for income letter applications is 12th December 2018. 
 As for the the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok and the U.S. Consulate in Chiang Mai and the Australian Embassy:
 • For the Australian Embassy: Effective 7th January 2019
 • For the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok and the U.S. Consulate in Chiang Mai: Effective 1st January 2019
 * And both of U.S. Embassy & Consulate will not notarize previous versions of the income affidavit. 
 If you previously relied on a proof of income statement from the Consulate/Embassy for your visa renewal the below are your alternative options:
 • For those whose visas will expire in November 2018 – May 2019, you can still get the Proof of Income certified by the Consulate/Embassy before 12th December 2018 (for British Nationals) 
 and before 30th December 2018 (for U.S. Nationals and Australian Nationals), and col etc it until it can be used when it’s time for the visa renewal. 
 Due to the fact that the Proof of Income from the Consulate/Embassy will valid for 6 months, if you obtain it in November or December 2018, it will still be efficient in until April – May 2019. 
 Another option is for you to demonstrate that you have an amount of at least 800,000 THB (for  Retirement Visa) or 400,000 THB (for Marriage Visa) in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application. 
 • For those whose visas will expire in June 2019 onward, the only option is to demonstrate that you have an amount of at least 800,000 THB (for Retirement Visa) or 400,000 THB (for Marriage Visa) in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application. 
 * A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Retirement Visa or Marriage Visa afterward. 
 However, please note that even though the Proof of Income,  which has been certified before 1st January 2019 and will be 6 months goods, is accepted  by the immigration for the visa renewal at this moment.  The immigration has all rights to change the regulation without any warning in the  future and there might be some chances that this acceptance will no longer be  efficient. 
 We cannot provide any confirmation for the future incidence that might occur after  1st January 2019. 
 Thus, please be aware to consider the risk of the options above before you complete  your consideration. 
 If it’s our kind suggestion, we would suggest for you to prepare for the above options of putting money in your bank account rather than to presume the Thai immigration wil accept a “proof of income” statement up to 6  months after issued has they did in the past. 
 For more information, please kindly visit: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-embassy-bangkok-to-stop-certification-of-income-letters
 or personal y contact with the British Embassy in Bangkok through their contacts. 
  
PS;  English is as received.
 

There is some wrong information in that advice.
1. They are not Visas.
2. Money in the bank for two months for marriage extension. Not three as stated.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ratcatcher]

The embassies of The United Kingdom, The United States of America and Australia have advised that they will no longer issue affidavits of income to people using the monthly average income route for retirement and marriage extensions of stay.

However. there has not been any comment, that I am aware of,  from the numerous other embassies such as Canada, New Zealand, Germany, France, Sweden etc etc.  

The question is , If these embassies are still willing to accept a sworn statement as to income from the home countries of expats. AFAIK, Immigration has always had the right to ask for backup proof in the form of bank statements and Thai bank deposit books. 

Can anyone clarify? In other words, have immigration issued a Police Order stating that the ONLY way an extension will be approved is the money in the Thai bank for the requisite period.  This information may allay concerns of another large sector of expats.

[pontious]

43 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

Can anyone clarify? In other words, have immigration issued a Police Order stating that the ONLY way an extension will be approved is the money in the Thai bank for the requisite period.  This information may allay concerns of another large sector of expats.

No - immigration have made no statement at all.

[elviajero]

41 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

The embassies of The United Kingdom, The United States of America and Australia have advised that they will no longer issue affidavits of income to people using the monthly average income route for retirement and marriage extensions of stay.

However. there has not been any comment, that I am aware of,  from the numerous other embassies such as Canada, New Zealand, Germany, France, Sweden etc etc.  

The question is , If these embassies are still willing to accept a sworn statement as to income from the home countries of expats. AFAIK, Immigration has always had the right to ask for backup proof in the form of bank statements and Thai bank deposit books. 

Can anyone clarify? In other words, have immigration issued a Police Order stating that the ONLY way an extension will be approved is the money in the Thai bank for the requisite period.  This information may allay concerns of another large sector of expats.

Embassies have been asked to validate income, so all the embassies you list will no longer be able to use sworn statements etc. They are going to have to give immigration a letter confirming that they have confirmed the income. The British, US, and AUS embassies are refusing to issue this letter.

 

Unless other embassies comply with Immigration’s new standard the affidavits/stat decs will not be accepted.

 

It is possible that the other embassies with fewer expats are prepared to comply.

[Moonlover]

2 hours ago, Justin Side said:

There is some wrong information in that advice.
1. They are not Visas.
2. Money in the bank for two months for marriage extension. Not three as stated.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

And that is not the only thing that's wrong. What evidence do this agency have to substantiate this paragraph? I quote:

 

 ''For those whose visas will expire in June 2019 onward, the only option is to demonstrate that you have an amount of at least 800,000 THB (for Retirement Visa) or 400,000 THB (for Marriage Visa) in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application''. 

 

Thai Imm have made no announcement yet regarding monthly income applications. This statement is. at best, misleading, at worst, coming as it does from an agency, downright dishonest.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Moonlover

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, ratcatcher said:

Can anyone clarify? In other words, have immigration issued a Police Order stating that the ONLY way an extension will be approved is the money in the Thai bank for the requisite period.  This information may allay concerns of another large sector of expats.

Yes if you are from a country who does not provide Income Letter .

It's not a change, it's the actual regulation in Immigration Offices: No "income option" or "combo option" without an embassy letter.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Pattaya46

[JLCrab]

Well then I will respond that from the RECEIVED FROM MY AGENT YESTERDAY, the link provided to the UK embassy in that long notice says:

 

... or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand for a retirement visa.

 

-- note that the word used is "transferred".

[JimGant]

Quote

it's the actual regulation in Immigration Offices: No "income option" or "combo option" without an embassy letter.

Could you please show me this, as I've never seen anything in Police or Immigration regulations or guidance that mention "embassy letter." I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to be pointed to the English translation of this regulation.

[Pattaya46]

6 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Could you please show me this, as I've never seen anything in Police or Immigration regulations or guidance that mention "embassy letter." I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to be pointed to the English translation of this regulation.

I don't have an official link for that, sorry. Maybe someone else ?

 

What I can give you - even if not official - is this link to a pdf from the PattayaExpatsClub. They make a good big work to try to keep their website always up to date of requirements/regulations :

http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/expats/docs/retirementvisachecklist.pdf

 

[wgdanson]

Not another thread with posters looking for a loophole, which does not exist.

[elviajero]

24 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Quote

it's the actual regulation in Immigration Offices: No "income option" or "combo option" without an embassy letter.

Could you please show me this, as I've never seen anything in Police or Immigration regulations or guidance that mention "embassy letter." I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to be pointed to the English translation of this regulation.

All the published information just asks for proof of income. There is no mention that the proof must be an “embassy letter”. 

 

However, immigration are clearly under orders to only accept embassy letters/affidavits as proof. Not all orders that immigration work to are published.

 

That all said, based in the published “rules” it is possible for immigration to easily change that order/policy and accept other forms of proof.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

25 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Not another thread with posters looking for a loophole, which does not exist.

 

The thing that doesn't exist, at least for the present, is any public statement directly from Immigration HQ indicating what their new policies/procedures are going to be in the wake of the US, UK and Aus embassies, perhaps among others, no longer issuing income letters.

 

Right now, everything is based on what OTHER parties are saying -- the embassies, visa agents, individual IOs that posters have been asking -- but nothing official from Immigration HQ.  At some point, presumably, they're going to have to say something official.

 

If Immigration is going to make these kinds of apparent changes, at some point, presumably they're going to have to amend the official Police Orders that allow for things like monthly income-based extensions of stay and that specifically talk about things like bank interest, pensions and such being countable as monthly income.

 

[Pib]

47 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Could you please show me this, as I've never seen anything in Police or Immigration regulations or guidance that mention "embassy letter." I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to be pointed to the English translation of this regulation.

 

The 2013 Immigration Police Memorandum  in below post talks the validity period of the embassy letter. 

And I've also added another link below that gives a little more background.  

 

Since the validity period is being talked to me that confirms there is another Police order/memo requiring the embassy letter. 

 

 

More Info Regarding the Income Letter Validity Period....apparently it was as short as 15 days at one time but changed to 6 months.

http://www.pcecnews.com/PCEC-NOTICE-THAI-IMMIGRATION-NEWS-JUNE-6.pdf

 

 

 

[ningnong]

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

And that is not the only thing that's wrong. What evidence do this agency have to substantiate this paragraph? I quote:

 

 ''For those whose visas will expire in June 2019 onward, the only option is to demonstrate that you have an amount of at least 800,000 THB (for Retirement Visa) or 400,000 THB (for Marriage Visa) in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application''. 

 

Thai Imm have made no announcement yet regarding monthly income applications. This statement is. at best, misleading, at worst, coming as it does from an agency, downright dishonest.

 

 

I think the statement is just giving fair warning. Insert 'guaranteed' in the paragraph and it makes perfect sense.

'the only guaranteed option is.....'

 

Since immigration has not stated any changes to policy, and a letter of income verification is currently required which these embassies will no longer provide in the near future, the only guaranteed option is to have those amounts deposited.

 

Of course this is subject to change.

 

[tropo]

8 hours ago, Justin Side said:

There is some wrong information in that advice.
1. They are not Visas.
2. Money in the bank for two months for marriage extension. Not three as stated.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

And another obvious error. Can't they count? An income letter obtained in December will be valid until June, and an income letter obtained from the Australian Embassy in January, before the Jan 7 cut-off date, will be valid until the first week of July... and furthermore, most immigration offices allow an extension application to be processed 30 days early, so some people will be good until early August. I'll be fine at the end of July.

 

... and then another obvious oversight. Most embassies have not yet announced a discontinuation of income letters, so unless they do, it's still could be business as usual for many people well into next year.

[elviajero]

7 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

7 hours ago, JimGant said:

Could you please show me this, as I've never seen anything in Police or Immigration regulations or guidance that mention "embassy letter." I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to be pointed to the English translation of this regulation.

I don't have an official link for that, sorry. Maybe someone else ?

 

What I can give you - even if not official - is this link to a pdf from the PattayaExpatsClub. They make a good big work to try to keep their website always up to date of requirements/regulations :

http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/expats/docs/retirementvisachecklist.pdf

 

It is mentioned on this old immigration website FAQ's: http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

22. Question : What is the required age of the alien wisthing to stay in Thailand with the reason of Retirement?

Answer : For reasons to stay of Retirement, the alien must be 50 year of age or older and must have been granted a Non-Immigrant visa, firstly. More over, the said alien must have evidences to verify his/her financial status of not less than 65,000 Baht per month or 800,000 Baht per year. Evidences showing financial support are as follows;        1.  In case of having money in the bank account (Saving/Fix deposit) of any bank located in Thailand.        -  The updated bank passbook on the date of application submission showing money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited and consecutively held of such amount for 3 months. ( Except the first application for this reason, that such amount should be deposited and held for 60 days)      -  Letter from the bank certified the current account in the bank of not less than 800,000 Baht; or          2.2  In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare      -  Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or;         2.3  In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1and 2.2

Edited November 7, 2018 by elviajero

[a977]

So if I go to Australia Embassy with copies of tax return for previous year in one hand and proof of income from Government in the other, what more proof could they possibly want???????

[Pattaya46]

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

It is mentioned on this old immigration website FAQ's: http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

//

         2.2  In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare
     -  Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or;
        2.3  In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1and 2.2

Nice find 

And also very interesting to see that TI was already using the word VERIFY for the income letter.

[phuketrichard]

Quote

Due to the fact that the Proof of Income from the Consulate/Embassy will valid for 6 months, if you obtain it in November or December 2018, it will still be efficient in until April – May 2019. 
 Another option is for you to demonstrate that you have an amount of at least 800,000 THB (for  Retirement Visa) or 400,000 THB (for Marriage Visa) in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application. 
 • For those whose visas will expire in June 2019 onward,

isn't dec 31st- may 30th ONLY 5 months?

[Pib]

12 hours ago, elviajero said:

 

It is mentioned on this old immigration website FAQ's: http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

22. Question : What is the required age of the alien wisthing to stay in Thailand with the reason of Retirement?

Answer : For reasons to stay of Retirement, the alien must be 50 year of age or older and must have been granted a Non-Immigrant visa, firstly. More over, the said alien must have evidences to verify his/her financial status of not less than 65,000 Baht per month or 800,000 Baht per year. Evidences showing financial support are as follows;        1.  In case of having money in the bank account (Saving/Fix deposit) of any bank located in Thailand.        -  The updated bank passbook on the date of application submission showing money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited and consecutively held of such amount for 3 months. ( Except the first application for this reason, that such amount should be deposited and held for 60 days)      -  Letter from the bank certified the current account in the bank of not less than 800,000 Baht; or          2.2  In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare      -  Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or;         2.3  In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1and 2.2

 

I'm sorry....that Q&A must be fake news.....a mirage...we are just seeing things because the UK/US/AU says the immigration website makes no reference to an embassy income letter.    

 

Yes, I'm being sarcastic with my above statement since website info can be incomplete or even in error... and should never be used for the absolute reference like the UK/US/AU have tried to use as their rationale to stop the issue of income letters.  Too bad the UK/US/AU embassies didn't do more research like looking for other immigration police orders or memorandums which establish the requirement for an embassy income letter. 

 

"Really" the UK/US/AU embassies wanted to get out of the income letter business due to other issues such as immigration wanting them to "verify" income and some folks abusing the system (i.e., lying on the income letters); not because an immigration webpage does not make reference to an embassy letter.

 

 

[JackThompson]

21 hours ago, Pib said:

"Really" the UK/US/AU embassies wanted to get out of the income letter business due to other issues such as immigration wanting them to "verify" income and some folks abusing the system (i.e., lying on the income letters); not because an immigration webpage does not make reference to an embassy letter.

I look at this series of events as Thai Immigration wanting to get the embassies out of the "income-letter business," so that many of those "letter" applicants could be forced to use agents, instead.  The embassies were not sharing the loot, after all.

[Spaniel]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I look at this series of events as Thai Immigration wanting to get the embassies out of the "income-letter business," so that many of those "letter" applicants could be forced to use agents, instead.  The embassies were not sharing the loot, after all.

The embassies were sharing the loot.    The US embassy charged $50 or equivalent bhat  for the letter.

[JLCrab]

On 11/8/2018 at 7:40 AM, Pattaya46 said:

Nice find 

And also very interesting to see that TI was already using the word VERIFY for the income letter.

TI was also using the word ABROAD.

[JackThompson]

19 hours ago, Spaniel said:

The embassies were sharing the loot.    The US embassy charged $50 or equivalent bhat  for the letter.

They were not sharing that money with immigration - unlike agents - which is likely the core-issue.  Considering agents charge ~20K Baht, in order to have enough to make money and pay-off immigration, the embassy would probably need to charge $500 or more for the letters - assuming they were willing to wallow that sewer (unlikely, given USA laws / punishments).

[Spaniel]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

They were not sharing that money with immigration - unlike agents - which is likely the core-issue.  Considering agents charge ~20K Baht, in order to have enough to make money and pay-off immigration, the embassy would probably need to charge $500 or more for the letters - assuming they were willing to wallow that sewer (unlikely, given USA laws / punishments).

I guess I should have been a bit clearer.   I didn't mean they were sharing their fee with anyone, only that they, the embassy, was making money too.