Finland's GPS was disrupted during NATO war games and Russia could be responsible - PM

[webfact]

Finland's GPS was disrupted during NATO war games and Russia could be responsible - PM

 

FILE PHOTO: A V-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft makes a pass during NATO's Exercise Trident Juncture, seen from Trondheim, Norway October 30, 2018. NTB Scanpix/Gorm Kallestad via REUTERS

 

HELSINKI (Reuters) - Finland's GPS signal was intentionally disrupted during NATO war games in the Nordic countries over the past few weeks and the culprit could be Russia, Prime Minster Juha Sipila said on Sunday.

 

Finland's air navigation services on Tuesday issued a warning for air traffic due to a large-scale GPS interruption in the north of the country. Norway posted a similar warning about loss of GPS signals for pilots in its own airspace at the end of the October when the NATO exercise began.

 

"It is possible that Russia has been the disrupting party in this. Russia is known to possess such capabilities," Sipila told public broadcaster Yle.

 

Finland is not a NATO member but it took part as an ally in 'Trident Juncture', NATO's largest exercise in decades which ended on Wednesday. Forces from 31 countries participated in the games close to Russia, in an area stretching from the Baltic Sea to Iceland.

 

Finland shares a 833-mile (1,340 km) border and a difficult history with Russia. It has lately developed closer ties with NATO but stopped short of full membership in line with a tradition of avoiding confrontation with its eastern neighbour.

 

(Reporting by Anne Kauranen; Editing by Matthew Mpoke Bigg)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-11-12

[car720]

you can bet it is not only the Ruskis who have this.

[DoctorG]

I cannot condemn Russia for testing their defences.

[scottiejohn]

11 minutes ago, DoctorG said:

I cannot condemn Russia for testing their defences.

Even when they, whoever "they" are, are disrupting civilian ATC without any warning?

[mfd101]

Russians playing smartarse & trying out their capability. Gives NATO the opportunity to work on countering such a capability.

[melvinmelvin]

fairly strange expression Finland's GPS, what on earth is that?

 

if it is the signals as such from a GPS bird  that is disturbed or distorted

that represents a very clear breach of international treaties

 

if it is the space segment itself that is screwed, it just might look a tad different

 

 

 

[IAMHERE]

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

Even when they, whoever "they" are, are disrupting civilian ATC without any warning?

Why not, there is no penalty for doing so.

[bristolboy]

17 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

Why not, there is no penalty for doing so.

And that makes endangering air traffic OK? 

[IAMHERE]

4 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And that makes endangering air traffic OK? 

You want to argue the definition of 'OK' ?  I am willing to accept Putin's definition in this case. I highly suspect that Russia's idea of 'OK' is vastly different from mine or yours. I was trying to say that the Russian's (Putin) are not afraid of you or your home land. Go get em if you want or can.

[Dellboy218]

2 hours ago, car720 said:

you can bet it is not only the Ruskis who have this.

It's a built in feature.  During Desert Storm the US military reduced the accuracy of the GPS system for civilian users in the Middle East.  Confused the hell out of our navigators! They can turn it off if they so wish.  It is their system after all. 

[melvinmelvin]

11 minutes ago, Dellboy218 said:

It's a built in feature.  During Desert Storm the US military reduced the accuracy of the GPS system for civilian users in the Middle East.  Confused the hell out of our navigators! They can turn it off if they so wish.  It is their system after all. 

Desert Storm, the first Gulf war?

 

my memory is the opposite of what you say,

maximum accuracy for civilian users during Desert Storm

 

why?

us military spec. receivers not yet widely available

the us military combed coastal areas and bought all the civilian receivers they could for use in the Storm

 

I think maybe you refer to the 2nd Gulf war

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, IAMHERE said:

Why not, there is no penalty for doing so.

yes, there might be,

if the signals, after emitted from the GPS bird, are disturbed or distorted

that represents a very clear breach of treaties

 

 

[Ulic]

25 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Desert Storm, the first Gulf war?

 

my memory is the opposite of what you say,

maximum accuracy for civilian users during Desert Storm

 

why?

us military spec. receivers not yet widely available

the us military combed coastal areas and bought all the civilian receivers they could for use in the Storm

 

I think maybe you refer to the 2nd Gulf war

 

What you fail to understand is the US military has the ability to shift signals/times to make civilian GPS units and those of its enemies inaccurate. However, they (US Military) know what those shifts are and the shift correction is programmed into their units so they maintain GPS accuracy/integrity.

[farq]

2 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Russians playing smartarse & trying out their capability. Gives NATO the opportunity to work on countering such a capability.

Yanks and their NATO puppet states playing "smartarse", trying to intimidate Russia with its bullying tactics. NATO haven't got a bloody clue!

[grumpy 4680]

      It would appear that Russia has totally no regard for international law. Putin's a scumbag pushing his luck, sooner or later he's going to get a kick up the a**e. And its the Russian people that need to do it.

[grumpy 4680]

3 hours ago, DoctorG said:

I cannot condemn Russia for testing their defences.

        Bullsh*t,  Russia's a huge country, they can do all the testing they need to do on its own soil.

[melvinmelvin]

30 minutes ago, Ulic said:

What you fail to understand is the US military has the ability to shift signals/times to make civilian GPS units and those of its enemies inaccurate. However, they (US Military) know what those shifts are and the shift correction is programmed into their units so they maintain GPS accuracy/integrity.

what a totally weird post

I think you would benefit from reading what comment on again, what you say above is not even relevant to my post

 

no, I do not fail to understand that, I am very familiar with both GPS service and the space segments

[dick dasterdly]

7 hours ago, bristolboy said:

And that makes endangering air traffic OK? 

I agree.

 

If anyone was responsible during the NATO war games for disrupting air space, they were playing games with air passengers lives, and should be held accountable.

 

I haven't read the entire thread yet - is it only Finland that is saying this to be the case?

Edited November 12, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

Entirely off topic - but I'm a bit suprised that oilinki's not here condemning everyone with any doubts/different opinion to be a russian troll! ????

Edited November 12, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Pedrogaz]

hahahahhhahaha the warmongers had their games spoiled!

[Pedrogaz]

8 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

fairly strange expression Finland's GPS, what on earth is that?

 

if it is the signals as such from a GPS bird  that is disturbed or distorted

that represents a very clear breach of international treaties

 

if it is the space segment itself that is screwed, it just might look a tad different

 

 

 

Melvin you seem to have a very strong regard for international treaties given the number of postings mentioning it. How do you regard Trump reneging on JCPOA? Or Trump reneging on the Paris Climate Change Accord? Or Trump reneging on NAFTA? Or Bush reneging on the Geneva Convention with regard to torture? etc etc

[melvinmelvin]

37 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

Melvin you seem to have a very strong regard for international treaties given the number of postings mentioning it. How do you regard Trump reneging on JCPOA? Or Trump reneging on the Paris Climate Change Accord? Or Trump reneging on NAFTA? Or Bush reneging on the Geneva Convention with regard to torture? etc etc

no particular strong regard,

but emitted signals are protected by treaty - fact

however, if countries chose to break treaty- up to them

but will have consequences if caught red handed

 

and yes,

jcpoa - nafta - paris - torture ----not my field of expertice

 

but fooooking up the ITU radio regulations will lead to consequences

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by melvinmelvin

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Entirely off topic - but I'm a bit suprised that oilinki's not here condemning everyone with any doubts/different opinion to be a russian troll! ????

his gps is foooooked up by the russians

he cannot find this thread

 

or maybe he is busy with his iso olut

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by melvinmelvin

[Fortean1]

Terry sayz: Also see --
https://www.liveviewgps.com/blog/russias-glonass-usas-gps-compare/
 

[melvinmelvin]

7 minutes ago, Fortean1 said:

Terry sayz: Also see --
https://www.liveviewgps.com/blog/russias-glonass-usas-gps-compare/
 

 

fairly light hearted comparison, but OK

 

re age and acceptance

 

gps is star wars crap from the late 80s, refurbished several times though

glonas is old secret crap from about the same time

the new glonas is relatively new

 

[SABloke]

I feel that if it was DEFINITELY Russia, then they would have said so. Political "coulds" are found everywhere it seems. It "could" also have been an array of other factors, but things like "GPS equipment fault" don't make headlines. ????

[Basil B]

10 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

Why not, there is no penalty for doing so.

No penalty for sending agents to poison whoever, wherever they want.  

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, SABloke said:

I feel that if it was DEFINITELY Russia, then they would have said so. Political "coulds" are found everywhere it seems. It "could" also have been an array of other factors, but things like "GPS equipment fault" don't make headlines. ????

Sure, they would have confessed to violating in international treaty and endangering civilian aircraft. How did you come up with this one?

[Panaeolus]

I asked Occam's razor on Line and it said NATO could be responsible. Finland is being pushed to NATO from inside and outside. 

[melvinmelvin]

Tuesday this week The Norwegian Ministry of Defence said to msm that up north in Norway

and also off her coast the GPS reception had been disturbed,

aircraft among others had observed this

 

The information was not conditioned by could or possibly,

it was simply stated that this was caused by Russia.

 

The largest ever NATO exercise (sea - air - land) took place in that area at the time of disturbance.