Boost in workers’ skills necessary to propel nation forward: Thai minister

[ChakaKhan]

16 hours ago, mok199 said:

May I suggest improve ''English language'' skills first..then try enforcing laws ..

Why SO Serious!!!!???  You TINK Too Mutt!!! You No Unnerstaaaan!  Thai pee=pole sa-ahpeak engrit velly goo

[Redline]

18 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

They make more cars than the British so something must be working.  Toyota, Isuzu, Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, BMW, Ford, MG, and Volvo.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Thailand#Volvo

But they don’t own the companies or the technology 

[kannot]

14 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Looming advances in geopolitics, intelligence agencies, and (nuclear) detonations threaten to make many humans obsolete over the next few years, in worst case scenario, 6 billion lives could be lost globally.

Looming end of the universe  will make everything redundant, globally wont exist

[kannot]

12 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

You are clueless.  Maybe you should ask  Yukontorn “Vickie” Wisadkosin she is president, Ford Asean.  Yukontorn joined Ford as vice president for marketing, sales and service, Ford Thailand, in September 2012, and was elevated to the role of managing director in February 2013. I know a lot of people in the auto biz in Thailand and they are all Thai. 

Khun Jatupon Puttaviboon, General Manager Dealer Development, BMW Group Thailand

Khun Krisda Utamote, Director Corporate Communications, BMW Group Thailand

Khun Preecha Ninatkiattikul, General Manager MINI Thailand

Khun Prapatsara Aramvongsamut, General Manager Sales, BMW Thailand

Mr. César Badilla, Director Aftersales, BMW Group Thailand

 

You have let your anti Thai bias distort reality.  Go take a look at the Detroit of Asia and you will find Thai people running the place. 

Please ask the head of GM Asia when they plan to update the Colorado for me.........thanks.

Or if they plan to cease operating manufacturing  in Thailand like Australia and the Korean bail out factory.

[kannot]

12 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I built our home here a few years ago with local labor and it is fine no problems.

Youve gone too far here or have very low standards or have paid a huge amount in labour ? curiously id  like to see some construction photos, I gave up with Thai workers due to them being crap and had to build it physically myself.

Ive never had anyone do a job correctly over 12  years, if it can be bodged it will be.

Various websites discuss construction in Thailand and its often not pretty.

Most couldnt mix concrete correctly adding way too much water and generally "guessing" or copying others mistakes they had learnt.

One example i can think of is "door  stops" they tend to put them close to the  bottom hinge of the doors a totally  incorrect position likely to rip the lower hinge off the frame  if forced.

If you have door  stops...........where we they located?

Often,  glued  joints leak in plumbing as cleanliness and even glue is an afterthought on occasions, bad pipe preparation ie sanding and then cleaning with thinner before assembly on pvc pipes (lack of). No damp course in most houses, witness paint peeling off walls at ground level............have you got one? I actually  brought a damp proof membrane over for my  build and used waterproof concrete.

Even with major big construction companies Ive seen shower  floors sloping the  opposite way to the drains in a new  build condo, and they werent cheap.

Edited November 20, 2018 by kannot

[Fex Bluse]

4 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I guess you would know.  What percent of Thai GDP is rice exports?  Hint = less than 2 percent. 

40% of Thailand's workforce is still in agriculture which successive studies have noted is too high as it's low productivity activity and does not help Thailand move up the value chain 

[Fex Bluse]

@marcusarelus

 

The attached report disagrees with many of the arguments you have raised. 

 

Roman 11 has the following:

"Thailand is the 12th largest automobile producer in the world and a leading producer of hard disk drives, making it a major exporter of high-value goods, ranking 14th in the world. However, much of the technology for this is borrowed  from  multinational  firms  and  has  not  spilled  over  into  other  domestic  firms.  Innovation  is  weak  in  the domestic business community, with relatively low research and development (R&D) and limited patenting." 

 

Page 20

"Thailand has 18 automobile assemblers, all foreign-owned, and no national car company (Thailand Board of Investment 2015). The Japanese automobile manufacturers account for about half of the approximately 1.5 million vehicles produced annually,"

 

Page 20

"In Thailand, the Tier 1 auto parts suppliers are predominantly foreign controlled or foreign directed (Figure 2.15). About 54% of the almost 709 suppliers are foreign-majority joint ventures, while another 23% are Thai-majority joint ventures, although in these companies the foreign partners still tend to be the source of technology, which is channeled from the parent company."

 

 

tha-industrialization-econ-catch (1).pdf

 

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Fex Bluse

[marcusarelus]

4 hours ago, Redline said:

But they don’t own the companies or the technology 

Neither does America in the case of Toyota, Nissan and all the other foreign brands, so what?  The Thai auto industry is made up of primary and secondary suppliers.  They make the parts that go into the cars in Thailand.  The company gives them a spec for a part and they make it from scratch and give it to the assembly plant. 

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

@marcusarelus

 

The attached report disagrees with many of the arguments you have raised. 

 

Roman 11 has the following:

"Thailand is the 12th largest automobile producer in the world and a leading producer of hard disk drives, making it a major exporter of high-value goods, ranking 14th in the world. However, much of the technology for this is borrowed  from  multinational  firms  and  has  not  spilled  over  into  other  domestic  firms.  Innovation  is  weak  in  the domestic business community, with relatively low research and development (R&D) and limited patenting." 

 

Page 20

"Thailand has 18 automobile assemblers, all foreign-owned, and no national car company (Thailand Board of Investment 2015). The Japanese automobile manufacturers account for about half of the approximately 1.5 million vehicles produced annually,"

 

Page 20

"In Thailand, the Tier 1 auto parts suppliers are predominantly foreign controlled or foreign directed (Figure 2.15). About 54% of the almost 709 suppliers are foreign-majority joint ventures, while another 23% are Thai-majority joint ventures, although in these companies the foreign partners still tend to be the source of technology, which is channeled from the parent company."

 

 

tha-industrialization-econ-catch (1).pdf

The above does not disagree with anything I have written.  It is a good example of the auto industry in Thailand. 

[marcusarelus]

3 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

40% of Thailand's workforce is still in agriculture which successive studies have noted is too high as it's low productivity activity and does not help Thailand move up the value chain 

I would agree with that.  When I first got to Thailand the agriculture work force was 80% and rice exports much higher than the 1 and a half percent they are at now.  Thailand has made a lot of progress to go from 80 to 40% of the workforce going into industry and away from farming same as any other country in the West.  Health care has drastically improved and college graduates increased in the millions. 

 

Thailand is not a victim of the social unrest that spawned the communist takeovers in the rest of South East Asia. 

 

Change is inevitable as the country becomes more educated.   2.5 million students are enrolled in tertiary education as we speak. 

[marcusarelus]

3 hours ago, kannot said:

Youve gone too far here or have very low standards or have paid a huge amount in labour ? curiously id  like to see some construction photos, I gave up with Thai workers due to them being crap and had to build it physically myself.

Ive never had anyone do a job correctly over 12  years, if it can be bodged it will be.

Various websites discuss construction in Thailand and its often not pretty.

Most couldnt mix concrete correctly adding way too much water and generally "guessing" or copying others mistakes they had learnt.

One example i can think of is "door  stops" they tend to put them close to the  bottom hinge of the doors a totally  incorrect position likely to rip the lower hinge off the frame  if forced.

If you have door  stops...........where we they located?

Often,  glued  joints leak in plumbing as cleanliness and even glue is an afterthought on occasions, bad pipe preparation ie sanding and then cleaning with thinner before assembly on pvc pipes (lack of). No damp course in most houses, witness paint peeling off walls at ground level............have you got one? I actually  brought a damp proof membrane over for my  build and used waterproof concrete.

Even with major big construction companies Ive seen shower  floors sloping the  opposite way to the drains in a new  build condo, and they werent cheap.

I can't fight an anecdotal evidence game.  A lot of the new construction I see is being done by Burmese not Thai people anyway.  Go to Bangkok and look at the new construction.  It's not all falling down.  I used Thai labor to build the U-Tapao airport runway and it is still fine after 50 years. 

[Fex Bluse]

17 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

The above does not disagree with anything I have written.  It is a good example of the auto industry in Thailand. 

The report notes the facts as evidence of a problem.

 

You seem to be reluctant to acknowledge that after several decades of benefiting from foreign talent (in auto and electronics which both formed the basis of what brought the Thai economy into middle income status), having only 23% of fully Thai owned auto related firms, only a tiny fraction of which have earned any accomplished status - is indicative of major failings in Thailand. 

 

Still no globally recognized Thai auto company in any part of the supply chain. 

 

Still no globally recognized Thai electronics company in any part of the supply chain. 

 

Why? It's been 40+ years already 

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

The report notes the facts as evidence of a problem.

 

You seem to be reluctant to acknowledge that after several decades of benefiting from foreign talent (in auto and electronics which both formed the basis of what brought the Thai economy into middle income status), having only 23% of fully Thai owned auto related firms, only a tiny fraction of which have earned any accomplished status - is indicative of major failings in Thailand. 

 

Still no globally recognized Thai auto company in any part of the supply chain. 

 

Still no globally recognized Thai electronics company in any part of the supply chain. 

 

Why? It's been 40+ years already 

Toyota opened in America 60 years ago and there are still Toyota owned and managed.  So what?  Thailand joined the ranks of the upper-middle-income countries in 2011, with sustained high growth and rapid
poverty reduction. Gross domestic product (GDP) grew an average of 9.5% per year between 1987 and 1996 on
the back of political stability, a business-friendly regulatory environment, a large domestic market, open access
to foreign investment, and greater participation in regional value chains.

 

Thailand has successfully transformed its economy from agriculture to export-oriented manufacturing, while
integrating key manufacturing production into the regional value chain, particularly in automobiles and electronics.

 

Thailand is the 12th largest automobile producer in the world and a leading producer of hard disk drives, making
it a major exporter of high-value goods, ranking 14th in the world.

 

The skill level of the Thai workforce, though improved significantly since the late 1990s, trails the level of now high income Asian countries when they were at Thailand’s current level of development. In 2014, 45% of the labor force had primary education, 28% secondary and 20% higher education, a substantial improvement from 2001 when
most of the labor force had reached only elementary education (62%).

 

Thailand is now the second largest economy and has
the 4th highest income per capita in the Association
of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN). It is the 22nd
largest economy in the world.

 

The suggested steps for improvement are listed in the article you posted and I certainly agree with them.

 

[Fex Bluse]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

So what?

The answer is that the US was/is not trying to move from a developing to developed status country. I'm not sure how your example is relevant. The US had/has an auto industry of its own. 

 

I think we should have a sense check to make sure we're still on topic which is to acknowledge that Thailand needs better human resources to move its economy forward. 

 

And, my reaction to that is that for 30 years, I've seen lots of talk and little results. In the last 30-50 years, we have seen Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and others all actually succeed in their objectives (with less talk, I might add). 

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

The answer is that the US was/is not trying to move from a developing to developed status country. I'm not sure how your example is relevant. The US had/has an auto industry of its own. 

 

I think we should have a sense check to make sure we're still on topic which is to acknowledge that Thailand needs better human resources to move its economy forward. 

 

And, my reaction to that is that for 30 years, I've seen lots of talk and little results. In the last 30-50 years, we have seen Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and others all actually succeed in their objectives (with less talk, I might add). 

Thailand is the 12th largest automobile producer in the world and a leading producer of hard disk drives, making it a major exporter of high-value goods, ranking 14th in the world.

 

Has Singapore and Korea and Taiwan done a better job?  One would have to be nuts to debate that - of course they have but I am not living in Singapore, Korea or Taiwan either.  There is a lesson there.  

 

If Thailand improved at the rate of the above countries most of us would have to leave. 

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by marcusarelus

[Fex Bluse]

9 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Thailand is the 12th largest automobile producer in the world and a leading producer of hard disk drives, making it a major exporter of high-value goods, ranking 14th in the world.

 

Has Singapore and Korea and Taiwan done a better job?  One would have to be nuts to debate that - of course they have but I am not living in Singapore, Korea or Taiwan either.  There is a lesson there.  

 

If Thailand improved at the rate of the above countries most of us would have to leave. 

 

I can agree with that. If living here was as expensive as Singapore, a whole different set of us farang would have been attracted. 

 

That said, while I do enjoy the benefits of Thailand's slow progress, such as relatively low costs, I am still comfortable calling attention to its flaws, eg. the always present disparity between official rhetoric and actual, secretive, often nefarious objectives and results or lack thereof. 

[akampa]

16 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

The factory workers are trained by Thai supervisors because they speak Thai and because they are cheaper the same reason Ford closed in Australia and opened up in Thailand.  What, did you think they import engineers and train them for 3 years to speak Thai to train a minimum wage employee?????

and who trains the Thai supervisors ? I am interested to know. I would imagine that the Thais speak English and they get to go to factory's in Germany and the US to get there training. 

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Fex Bluse said:

I can agree with that. If living here was as expensive as Singapore, a whole different set of us farang would have been attracted. 

 

That said, while I do enjoy the benefits of Thailand's slow progress, such as relatively low costs, I am still comfortable calling attention to its flaws, eg. the always present disparity between official rhetoric and actual, secretive, often nefarious objectives and results or lack thereof. 

When we (American military forces) left we gave all of all our construction heavy equipment to the Thai people and they put it in colleges to study and work on maintenance and such.  My wife went to school and studied some the equipment I used when I was in the service here.  Fate maybe. 

[marcusarelus]

49 minutes ago, akampa said:

and who trains the Thai supervisors ? I am interested to know. I would imagine that the Thais speak English and they get to go to factory's in Germany and the US to get there training. 

Which is easier?  Send 1000 Thai people to the West to study or one Westerner to Thailand and hire an interpreter?

[KKr]

23 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Vocational school starts after high school,

to be exact, in Thailand, it is called Vocational College. 

and where I come from Vocational School starts after Primary School.
Enuf Said.

Edited November 21, 2018 by KKr

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, KKr said:

it is called Vocational College to be exact, in Thailand.

and where I come from Vocational School start after Primary School.
Enuf Said.

Thailand does not have high school or primary school.  Might as well use the appropriate terms if you are discussing Thailand. 

[Brunolem]

12 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

BMW, Ford, Volkswagen, Volvo, MG, Mercedes Benz and General Motors are from Japan?  Who would have guessed? They are all produced in Thailand. 

 

Made in the USA - Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, Honda and Kia.

 

Gee, you sure know a lot about car manufacturing don't you?

You are so overwhelmed by your emotions that you can't make a distinction between the core issue and the details.

 

It doesn't matter if the car brands are Japanese, American or German, the fact is they are not...Thai!!!

 

China produces Apple iphones and Nike shoes, which doesn't make the country a household for mobile phones technology and sport shoes efficiency.

 

Countries like China or Thailand just happen to be convenient for the corporations who use their services.

 

In another domain, the fact that Hollywood would film an increasing number of movies in Thailand, would not mean that Thailand is becoming a new Hollywood...just a convenient platform...

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

You are so overwhelmed by your emotions that you can't make a distinction between the core issue and the details.

 

It doesn't matter if the car brands are Japanese, American or German, the fact is they are not...Thai!!!

 

China produces Apple iphones and Nike shoes, which doesn't make the country a household for mobile phones technology and sport shoes efficiency.

 

Countries like China or Thailand just happen to be convenient for the corporations who use their services.

 

In another domain, the fact that Hollywood would film an increasing number of movies in Thailand, would not mean that Thailand is becoming a new Hollywood...just a convenient platform...

False again.  You wrote, "There is a major difference between Detroit, Michigan, and the Detroit of Asia.

The first produces its own cars, while the second produces cars from other countries, mostly Japan."

 

Not true.  America and Thailand produce cars the same way for brands that are from other countries like in America , "Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, Honda and Kia."

 

Japan uses management (CEO) from Lebanese–Brazilian–French person.  How does that fit with your world view?

 

Making a car is making a car.  I know you are trying to belittle Thailand's achievement in becoming the worlds 12th largest auto producer but it doesn't fly.   Thai workers are no better or worse than Mexican, American or Japanese auto workers. 

[Brunolem]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

False again.  You wrote, "There is a major difference between Detroit, Michigan, and the Detroit of Asia.

The first produces its own cars, while the second produces cars from other countries, mostly Japan."

 

Not true.  America and Thailand produce cars the same way for brands that are from other countries like in America , "Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, Honda and Kia."

 

Japan uses management (CEO) from Lebanese–Brazilian–French person.  How does that fit with your world view?

 

Making a car is making a car.  I know you are trying to belittle Thailand's achievement in becoming the worlds 12th largest auto producer but it doesn't fly.   Thai workers are no better or worse than Mexican, American or Japanese auto workers. 

It would seem that Japan is not going to use its French manager anymore...

[marcusarelus]

8 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

It would seem that Japan is not going to use its French manager anymore...

It would seem Carlos is going to the pokey. 

[Brunolem]

4 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

 

Thailand is not a victim of the social unrest that spawned the communist takeovers in the rest of South East Asia. 

Social unrest and communist takeovers?

 

As far as I know, only two South East Asian countries have a communist regime: Vietnam and Laos...and they were send back in time with the help of our global benefactor, the Land of the Free and the goodies it drops from the sky to help people dreaming, like the Sandman, but a bit more crude...

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Social unrest and communist takeovers?

 

As far as I know, only two South East Asian countries have a communist regime: Vietnam and Laos...and they were send back in time with the help of our global benefactor, the Land of the Free and the goodies it drops from the sky to help people dreaming, like the Sandman, but a bit more crude...

Social unrest and dictators (communist and others) caused problems in Laos, Cambodia, Burma, Vietnam, Malaysia and Indonesia.  All of South East Asia becomes independent between 1945 and 1957.  Thailand with the help of 50,000 US troops gets through the period relatively unscathed and emerges as the tiger of South East Asia.  Thailand was propelled forward and has continued to move forward at different rates of speed.  Not fast enough for some too fast for others.  It is difficult to understand unless viewed from the viewpoint of the history of entire South East Asian region. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by marcusarelus

[metisdead]

A post in which the quoted content had been altered to change the context has been removed. 

[HalfLight]

On 11/20/2018 at 6:21 AM, fruitman said:

Just inject the skills in the workforce...why would you go the hard way? That's not thai style..

 

Everything the thai make is already broken or broken within 3 years...it's time to work on that!

 

You got that right. To err is human, to completely balls something up properly, you need a Thai.

 

The best thin Thailand could do is commence a large-scale TQM exercise and to emphasis that sometimes 'cheap' is more than just inexpensive, often-times it's cheap and nasty.

[marcusarelus]

56 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

 

You got that right. To err is human, to completely balls something up properly, you need a Thai.

 

The best thin Thailand could do is commence a large-scale TQM exercise and to emphasis that sometimes 'cheap' is more than just inexpensive, often-times it's cheap and nasty.

Made in Thailand.