Will I have to serve Thai Military Service with a Dual Nationality?

[grollies]

6 hours ago, Snow Leopard said:

I think that you should check this very carefully. You might have bigger issues here than just military service. You could lose your Dutch passport if you spend a long time out of Holland

Whaaat? What about me? I've been out of the UK for ages.....will i loose my passport and citizenship? I'll be stateless.....like a moo baar...

[Snow Leopard]

15 hours ago, grollies said:

Whaaat? What about me? I've been out of the UK for ages.....will i loose my passport and citizenship? I'll be stateless.....like a moo baar...

No, it's Dutch law apparently. Not UK law. I am a Brit as well and was surprised by this law. It only applies to Dutch persons dual nationality. I think this lad has additional complications as well as it looks like his father was naturalised to be a Dutch citizen and also his mother is Thai.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_nationality_law

[georgegeorgia]

What is a Brit, from England ? 

 

Why would u call yourself a Brit?

 

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by georgegeorgia

[nontabury]

14 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

What is a Brit, from England ? 

 

Why would u call yourself a Brit?

 

 

Possible because he’s a citizen of the U.K.

[Marius Brok]

On 11/26/2018 at 2:50 AM, thaibook said:

There are two further potential options, one is to do an officer short service commission, if there is such a thing in Thailand, which would probably give you a good introduction for any future endevours.  The other is to volunteer.  Earlier this yer, my wife and I spent a week or so driving around the three southern restless provinces visiting some of the camps and giving out goodies to soldiers there and to those on checkpoints.  We talked to a number of them and all the "jungle soldiers" as they called themselves and the Border Security units were volunteers.  They had contracts that were renewed annually.  Actually, I was quite impressed by the calibre of some of the NCOs and junior officers.

As far I know is the short service the only good solution. Benfits are: You can go on holydays before you 30 Y and have a short break to learn a little Thai. The short service is unpaid and can be a hard time. I know a few Thai guys in Holland with dual citizenship who did it. Not lucky with the lottery

[Briggsy]

16 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

What is a Brit, from England ? 

 

Why would u call yourself a Brit?

 

 

You, Sir, require a geography lesson.

[grollies]

On 11/27/2018 at 12:41 PM, georgegeorgia said:

What is a Brit, from England ? 

 

Why would u call yourself a Brit?

 

 

The clue is in the first four letter: BRITain

 

British or, a Brit.

 

An absolute pleasure to clarify this for you old bean, no need to thank me.

[grollies]

On 11/27/2018 at 12:41 PM, georgegeorgia said:

What is a Brit, from England ? 

 

Why would u call yourself a Brit?

 

 

The clue is in the first four letter: BRITain

 

British or, a Brit.

 

An absolute pleasure to clarify this for you old bean, no need to thank me.

[grollies]

Whoops

[unblocktheplanet]

Hi Adam! My info on this subject is very up-to-date. And I'm really glad you're thinking about the draft well in advance.

   #1 Unless you or your parents have already informed Thai authorities, there is no requirement for you to tell them about your Dutch nationality. So DON’T tell them! If you entered Thailand as Thai, you’re Thai not Dutch.

   #2 The Thai military draft runs off birth dates on Thai ID cards; there’s a quota system for each area depending on personnel needs. IF Thai officials    already know about your Dutch nationality, DON’T get that Thai ID card. I believe you’ll fall through the cracks.

   #3 DON’T follow the OP’s advice to do ROTC in school—why train to be a slave…worse, a killer slave? ROTC will leave you permanently in the military reserves, ready for call tp active duty at any time. ROTC only gets you out of pulling that ticket.

   #4 IF you reach 18 & are called to the draft, deferrals are readily available for education until age 25. You MUST legally show up. However, there is no legal requirement for you to draw lots. Pulling a ticket gives you a two-thirds chance of NOT being drafted. If you DON’t pull a chit, they’ll just send you home with no legal penalty—as of today, no telling what will be the situation in five years. For now, you can be a conscientious objector by not drawing lots.

   #5 AFTER you turn 18, there are lots of choices &, as one OP mentioned, you can leave Thailand until you’re past draft age.

#6 Perhaps, as many of us hope, conscription slavery will have been abolished in Thailand. If we’re really lucky, the military itself will have been judged useless & trashed, as well.

   #7 Meanwhile, don’t stress over this. Just guide yourself by planning with the draft in mind.

The lesson is that military violence in history has never proven a permanent solution to conflict over social issues. Peace works. Violence does  not.

Good luck, Adam!

.   

[mogandave]

Yeah, peace works until it doesn’t.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

No civilisation I can think of achieved greatness or survival without war and superior military power. Peace is for phukkin' hippies.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by NilSS

[AdamTH]

To the OP...I have two boys, over 20 years old, both dual passport holders, Thai and Australian. Neither country has a a problem with that, but being a dual passport holder does not grant you exemption from being conscripted.
 
They attended high school here in Thailand and from Years Matayom 4 through to 6, they were enrolled in army cadet training (Lor Dor), which required them to turn up to the provincial cadet training centre one afternoon once per week during the school term. Upon successful completion of the 3 years of cadet training, they are issued a certificate that exempts them from military conscription...they may be called up in a time of war however. Cadet training is not difficult and most high schools offer it to their male & female students.
 
Another way to exempt yourself from the conscription lottery is $$$   

Very useful! Thank you very much!

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[AdamTH]

I think that you should check this very carefully. You might have bigger issues here than just military service. You could lose your Dutch passport if you spend a long time out of Holland.

I know, I don't care. I like Thailand. But I want to avoid the military. Ya know?

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[AdamTH]

Your 13 years 3 mmonths old. Give it a couple 2-3 years and look at options at that time. You never know what happens during that time...

I have to at least prepare. I'm have sort out what I want for my future here in Thailand.

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[AdamTH]

No, it's Dutch law apparently. Not UK law. I am a Brit as well and was surprised by this law. It only applies to Dutch persons dual nationality. I think this lad has additional complications as well as it looks like his father was naturalised to be a Dutch citizen and also his mother is Thai.  
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_nationality_law

Thanks! Usefull!

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[AdamTH]

You, Sir, require a geography lesson.

Funny! But not useful for me...

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[AdamTH]

Hi Adam! My info on this subject is very up-to-date. And I'm really glad you're thinking about the draft well in advance.
   #1 Unless you or your parents have already informed Thai authorities, there is no requirement for you to tell them about your Dutch nationality. So DON’T tell them! If you entered Thailand as Thai, you’re Thai not Dutch.
   #2 The Thai military draft runs off birth dates on Thai ID cards; there’s a quota system for each area depending on personnel needs. IF Thai officials    already know about your Dutch nationality, DON’T get that Thai ID card. I believe you’ll fall through the cracks.
   #3 DON’T follow the OP’s advice to do ROTC in school—why train to be a slave…worse, a killer slave? ROTC will leave you permanently in the military reserves, ready for call tp active duty at any time. ROTC only gets you out of pulling that ticket.
   #4 IF you reach 18 & are called to the draft, deferrals are readily available for education until age 25. You MUST legally show up. However, there is no legal requirement for you to draw lots. Pulling a ticket gives you a two-thirds chance of NOT being drafted. If you DON’t pull a chit, they’ll just send you home with no legal penalty—as of today, no telling what will be the situation in five years. For now, you can be a conscientious objector by not drawing lots.
   #5 AFTER you turn 18, there are lots of choices &, as one OP mentioned, you can leave Thailand until you’re past draft age.
#6 Perhaps, as many of us hope, conscription slavery will have been abolished in Thailand. If we’re really lucky, the military itself will have been judged useless & trashed, as well.
   #7 Meanwhile, don’t stress over this. Just guide yourself by planning with the draft in mind.
The lesson is that military violence in history has never proven a permanent solution to conflict over social issues. Peace works. Violence does  not.
Good luck, Adam!
.   

My god! You spent much time in this. By far the most useful reaction. Thank you for who ever you are.

I moved to Thailand because there were some problems in the Netherlands with the authorities.
Yeah. I should think in advance, other my future is blown to hell. Now learning Thai about 6 month. I failed the Thai Subjects at school. Now I am for 1 month in summer school. Although my mom is Thai, in the Netherlands living for 13 years we never talked Thai. We spoke Dutch with eachother.

So having a hard time getting good on a Thai School as a foreigner + being stressed about Military. I just want a normal life. That includes
-Going to school
-Going to college
-Marry me a beatiful honey
-Having Kids
-Take for my family
-Die peacefully


1. Too late, already told.
2. Recently got Thai ID
3. Was thinking about that. People say when you are a Military Refugee from grade 10 to 12. You won't be conscripted.
4. Umm yeah...
5. No, I like Thailand. But I'd like to avoid Military.
6. That ain't no happening since the past elections this week...if you know what I mean.
7. Son of God! Hallelujah!

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[adammike]

On 11/26/2018 at 2:05 AM, GLewis said:

You may believe it but its not true. You may hold dualitc nationality with no problems at all. Both my kids are 21 and hold two passports and have no plans to renounce either one.  

The Dutch don't allow dual nationality so I don't know how that works.

[Thongkorn]

If you have a Thai ID card, yes you will have to serve

[nontabury]

43 minutes ago, Thongkorn said:

If you have a Thai ID card, yes you will have to serve

Do they not have to swear an allegiance to the crown, similarly to the one required to the British armed forces.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 11/26/2018 at 8:59 AM, mogandave said:

I know the US recognizes duel citizenship but I thought Thailand did not

The Thai Nationality Act says that Thai citizens may apply to renounce their Thai nationality if they have another nationality but does not require it - and the renunciation may or may not be approved.

 

Section 15 of the act states:

 

Quote

... a person who has Thai nationality and other nationality, or who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization shall, if he desires to renounce Thai nationality, file an application with the competent official according to such form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

 

The granting or refusal of permission for renunciation of Thai nationality shall lie with the discretion of the Minister.

 

I personally know five people in their 20's or 30's (including my daughter) who have Thai/UK dual nationality. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 3/30/2019 at 2:30 AM, adammike said:

The Dutch don't allow dual nationality so I don't know how that works.

Yes they do. The Dutch Nationality Act places restrictions on dual nationality and mentions some situations where Dutch Nationality can be automatically lost but also provides for numerous scenarios where Dutch citizens can retain dual nationality, including:

 

"those who acquire another citizenship at the time of birth (for example, a child born to Dutch parents in the United States would hold both US and Dutch citizenship).

persons who acquire Dutch citizenship through the option procedure (including former Dutch citizens resuming citizenship)

persons who become naturalised Dutch nationals if they obtain an exemption from the requirement to renounce their foreign citizenship, such as those who are married to Dutch nationals.

Dutch nationals who naturalise in another country who are exempted from the loss of nationality rule, such as those married to a national of that country."

 

Dutch Nationality Act

Edited March 31, 2019 by GroveHillWanderer

[AdamTH]

If you have a Thai ID card, yes you will have to serve

Read the other replies too. Is it a fact?

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[adammike]

1 hour ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Yes they do. The Dutch Nationality Act places restrictions on dual nationality and mentions some situations where Dutch Nationality can be automatically lost but also provides for numerous scenarios where Dutch citizens can retain dual nationality, including:

 

"those who acquire another citizenship at the time of birth (for example, a child born to Dutch parents in the United States would hold both US and Dutch citizenship).

persons who acquire Dutch citizenship through the option procedure (including former Dutch citizens resuming citizenship)

persons who become naturalised Dutch nationals if they obtain an exemption from the requirement to renounce their foreign citizenship, such as those who are married to Dutch nationals.

Dutch nationals who naturalise in another country who are exempted from the loss of nationality rule, such as those married to a national of that country."

 

Dutch Nationality Act

True but it's not a given or automatic, if I was the OP I would seek legal advice from a lawyer in the Netherlands about his status,having to do national service in Thailand may be the least of his worries.Its not that easy to fetch up in the Netherlands and start up if you don't have family living there,if you have money no problem of course.

[AdamTH]

True but it's not a given or automatic, if I was the OP I would seek legal advice from a lawyer in the Netherlands about his status,having to do national service in Thailand may be the least of his worries.Its not that easy to fetch up in the Netherlands and start up if you don't have family living there,if you have money no problem of course.

National service, is my biggest worry. Money? Nah, daddy has enough[emoji28]

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[boonrawdcnx]

You would rather make something of your life rather than join the military? Like what? Some of my best experiences came from being a soldier. 

Having been a soldier myself I think it is important to point out here to differentiate between serving in an army under a democratic civilian leadership adhering to the highest laws of a country and being held accountable when breaking the law!

As opposed to an army that is run as a corrupt, criminal enterprise without integrity or honor kept to protect a selected few, commits treason regularly and is used to suppress and murder - as in shoot to kill, forced disappearances or suffocate to death - unarmed civilians but is never held accountable for the crimes they commit.
Also called a “3rd world banana republic army” in informed circles.




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[Date Masamune]

On 11/25/2018 at 6:11 PM, mogandave said:

I believe when you turn 18 you will have to decide which country you want to be a citizen of.

Incorrect. An old wives' tale or barstool knowledge that gets repeated endlessly but somehow won't go away.

[WyrldTraveler]

Adam, I am a decorated soldier with combat experience.  I enjoyed the Army, disliked combat and despised some of the morons with whom  I served . 

 

Earlier, a posting, to which you responded:

 

Posted March 29

On 11/29/2018 at 5:18 PM, unblocktheplanet said:

Hi Adam! My info on this subject is very up-to-date. And I'm really glad you're thinking about the draft well in advance.
   #1 Unless you or your parents have already informed Thai authorities, there is no requirement for you to tell them about your Dutch nationality. So DON’T tell them! If you entered Thailand as Thai, you’re Thai not Dutch.
   #2 The Thai military draft runs off birth dates on Thai ID cards; there’s a quota system for each area depending on personnel needs. IF Thai officials    already know about your Dutch nationality, DON’T get that Thai ID card. I believe you’ll fall through the cracks.
   #3 DON’T follow the OP’s advice to do ROTC in school—why train to be a slave…worse, a killer slave? ROTC will leave you permanently in the military reserves, ready for call tp active duty at any time. ROTC only gets you out of pulling that ticket.
   #4 IF you reach 18 & are called to the draft, deferrals are readily available for education until age 25. You MUST legally show up. However, there is no legal requirement for you to draw lots. Pulling a ticket gives you a two-thirds chance of NOT being drafted. If you DON’t pull a chit, they’ll just send you home with no legal penalty—as of today, no telling what will be the situation in five years. For now, you can be a conscientious objector by not drawing lots.
   #5 AFTER you turn 18, there are lots of choices &, as one OP mentioned, you can leave Thailand until you’re past draft age.
#6 Perhaps, as many of us hope, conscription slavery will have been abolished in Thailand. If we’re really lucky, the military itself will have been judged useless & trashed, as well.
   #7 Meanwhile, don’t stress over this. Just guide yourself by planning with the draft in mind.
The lesson is that military violence in history has never proven a permanent solution to conflict over social issues. Peace works. Violence does  not.
Good luck, Adam!
.   

My god! You spent much time in this. By far the most useful reaction. Thank you for who ever you are.

I moved to Thailand because there were some problems in the Netherlands with the authorities.
Yeah. I should think in advance, other my future is blown to hell. Now learning Thai about 6 month. I failed the Thai Subjects at school. Now I am for 1 month in summer school. Although my mom is Thai, in the Netherlands living for 13 years we never talked Thai. We spoke Dutch with eachother.

So having a hard time getting good on a Thai School as a foreigner + being stressed about Military. I just want a normal life. That includes
-Going to school
-Going to college
-Marry me a beatiful honey
-Having Kids
-Take for my family
-Die peacefully


1. Too late, already told.
2. Recently got Thai ID
3. Was thinking about that. People say when you are a Military Refugee from grade 10 to 12. You won't be conscripted.
4. Umm yeah...
5. No, I like Thailand. But I'd like to avoid Military.
6. That ain't no happening since the past elections this week...if you know what I mean.
7. Son of God! Hallelujah!
 

A few points which will infuriate many TV posters:

 

• Much can change in 5 years.  Focus on becoming a better Man than you think you can become.  See what happens.
• If Thailand recognizes foreign military service for dual-nationals, you can serve as a hippie in the Dutch Army and defend the Tulip festival.
• Get an education.  Fluent English speakers might be forced to serve as English Teachers (maybe as officers, such a difficult mission!)
• If you are angry at age 18, the military might be a great outlet for your violent urges.  See what happens.
• Quit paying attention to politics.  They are slightly higher level distractions than the soap operas and daily news propaganda.
• Ignore your language progress for another year.  It takes a long time to learn a language (2 years for babies who have no other options!)  It will come. I use 5 languages.
• You can always enter a monastery for a while to avoid service.  Christian or otherwise.

 

Pay attention to today.  A tuk-tuk driver can ruin everything if you aren't paying attention.

 

-WT

Edited April 5, 2019 by WyrldTraveler
fixed my own spelling error

[WyrldTraveler]

Depending on your birth country, your nationality is determined by that nation's laws.  You would benefit from study should you decide to research the concepts below:

 

• Jus soli

• Jus sanguine

All modern nations are organized as corporations.  As such, they have internal laws which are not required to be harmonized with other corporations unless some external framework or agreement (a 'treaty') is created and enforced by involved parties. 

 

How these legal approaches are applied in the countries will impact your citizenship status.  In your case, you will have to look at how Thailand, Suriname and the Netherlands apply these principles.  (Also important is to look at how the Dutch Kingdom approaches your status if you are not a corporate citizen, but a royal subject outside the corporation, or a Free man born upon the Land under so-called Natural law.  Or all of the above.)  The more you know, the weirder it gets.  Your school teachers have no idea what they are teaching, but simply parrot what they were told as it seems to work for everyone else.

 

Thai law may require you to register and report for the draft (conscription, military service, national service) but you may be able to do this from outside Thailand via a consulate.  You may be able to obtain exemption by entering a monastic order (Buddhism is not at odds with Christianity if one approaches it as a training institution instead of a religious institution).  Once you realize that most of the components of our shared reality are fake (or imaginary) constructs, your options expand and clarity is easier to find.  This tends to irritate people who do not actively pursue spiritual study, but there is nothing I can do about that.  Seek and ye shall find, it is written.

 

As a training institution, monastic orders enforce discipline and subjugation of self under a greater whole, just like military institutions.  I enjoyed the military lifestyle, but did not particularly like most of the people whom I served under, nor those with whom I served.  I tend to pick better neighbors when left to my own devices.

 

The secret is to avoid fear.  Don't be scared.  Be prepared.

 

The other secret is to realize that puberty is a very bizarre time psychologically.  The brain is changing while the body is changing and we are expected to act as if nothing is happening by Society.  If our brain hormones were fluctuating in the same manner in our 30s as they do in our teen years, we would be diagnosed as clinically insane.  Anything that happens in this period in your life is really not worth worrying about.  Focus on getting through it without making any huge mistakes, like getting in trouble with the law (or getting anyone pregnant) and you should make a fine member of the human race.