"A lengthy new document compiled by Just Security’s Ryan Goodman offers a complete look at all of the lies that President Donald Trump and his associates have made about their dealings with Russian officials. The lies documented in the list include former Trump “fixer” Michael Cohen falsely claiming that the Trump Tower Moscow project ended in January 2016; former Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos lying about meeting with a Russian agent who was peddling dirt on Hillary Clinton; former national security adviser Michael Flynn’s lies to the FBI about discussions he’d had with the Russian embassy; and conspiracy theorist Jerome Corsi, who lied to investigators about his attempts to contact WikiLeaks at the behest of Roger Stone."

 

https://fr.scribd.com/document/394786653/Perjury-Chart-Trump-Associates-Lies-False-Or-Misleading-Statements-on-Russia-to-Federal-Authorities#from_embed

 

I was just about to ask for a recap of all lies when you posted. well done, great timing!

 

Apparently, Trump staff has been lying a lot about the Russians.

 

I wonder what the big picture is.

Buying some dirt on Hillary or ordering a social media campaign doesn't require so many meetings, and why lie about the dates for the Moscow tower as this could have served as a decoy story for the meetings?

 

Another possible way to look at the whole thing is that it's a destabilization OP by Russian intelligence services.

Improving Russia's international position by weakening the USA by getting Trump elected and then discrediting him, although that last part doesn't require too much help... hahaha

Baiting post removed.

 

Unless Meuller is found to be withholding exculpatory evidence

or found to have extreme conflict of interest, the investigation should not be impeded.

If declassification of fisa docs prove the investigating premise to be false, then

there is a case to be made for ending investigation. 

Absent above legal arguments , it will proceed.

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/12/02/actually_mueller_appears_to_be_exonerating_trump.html

If you are arguing that the fruit of a poison tree invalidates the investigation then it is only natural that you are also arguing that all the charges that came from this poisonous tree should also be dropped etc.  The Clinton impeachment (but failure to convict since it is a political trial and the public basically were not in the mood to convict) was a result of Whitewater investigation - which turned out to be a dud - you could argue anything coming from that dud should also be invalidated...  I on the other hand believe in law and order and regardless for the reasons of why an investigation began any criminal activity should not be ignored for because (it wasn't fair argument).  

 

The argument that these are perjury traps.  If they were traps they were not hidden, the people walking into them knew full well that lying to the FBI and lying to Congress -- is illegal.  They knowingly committed crimes and should be prosecuted.  Lying to congress has unfortunately not been enforced as often as it should.  No one should feel safe lying to congress during testimony.

 

Remember the investigation is not solely of President Trump, it is an investigation into foreign interference into a US presidential election in a wide ranging conspiracy.  All other investigations came from this.  They are all valid.  I doubted early on that President Trump was directly involved in any way, I doubted that his actions as President were based on his own financial interest and not his own (if flawed) view of how the country should be run.  I now am pretty sure that that doubt was misplaced.  Donald Trumps actions with regards to Russia and now Saudi Arabia seem very much influenced by who are his major customers.  The statements that he had no Russian ties financially (Russia Project) were blatant lies -- lies that seem very much to be about hiding motives other than those of serving the country.

 

Let the investigations finish.  If Donald Trump has nothing to hide -- he would not be so defensive and conspiratorial with regards to be honest and open with the investigation.  Mueller (Republican) is an honorable man and a man well suited for the task. 

 

The current list (and growing) of those caught up in criminal activity so far:

 

George Papadopoulos - 14 day sentency - false statements to FBI

Paul Manafort- indicted on a total of 25 different counts by Mueller’s team, related mainly to his past work for Ukrainian politicians and his finances - convicted.

Rick Gates - plead guilty to false statements charge and one conspiracy charge.

Michael Flynn - plead guilty to false statements to the FBI.

13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies were indicted on conspiracy charges.

Richard Pinedo - plead guilty to identity theft (related to Russian indictments)

Alex van der Zwaan - London lawyer plead guilty to making false statements to FBI about contacts with Rick Gates.

Konstantin Kilimnik - tampering with witnesses in Manafort’s pending case this year.

12 Russian GRU officers - charged with hacking/leaking of Democrats emails.

Michael Cohen - pleaded guilty to 8 counts — tax and bank charges, related to his finances and taxi business, and campaign finance violations.  Plead guilty to lying to Congress.

 

 

 

Let the investigations finish.  If Donald Trump has nothing to hide -- he would not be so defensive and conspiratorial with regards to be honest and open with the investigation.  Mueller (Republican) is an honorable man and a man well suited for the task. 

They will finish! Mueller honorable, I use to think so until the two summit attacks(Helsinki 12 Russian Indictments with no trials  and Argentina Cohen's unexpected court appearance  )! And Republican doesn't mean anything!

I want to  thank you for using his name(Donald Trump),very respectful! 

 

Edited December 3, 20187 yr by riclag

 

If you are arguing that the fruit of a poison tree invalidates the investigation then it is only natural that you are also arguing that all the charges that came from this poisonous tree should also be dropped etc.

 

 

Not necessarily, as Meullers task allows him to pursue all crimes he can find while investigating.  Even Trump agrees as per his statement on Cohen.

But IF he, Meuller is found to have withheld exculpatory evidence,  then his bias comes into play in regards to potus in this case, which is worse than his team texts msgs of "insurance policy", leaks etc.

Im merely stating a situation where Meullers investigation could face problems of credibilty

as brought up by Paul Sperry of Realclearpolitics.com

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/12/02/actually_mueller_appears_to_be_exonerating_trump.html

Also Meuller can throw this case by making this kind of mishap, IF what Paul Sperry says comes into play.

His past cases show that he can make a mess.

 

As for Trump being defensive, well he is the prize.????

 

im not arguing what should or should not be done. Thats for lawyers to fight over and judges to decide. Let the show go on

 

Huber will give testimony shortly regarding his own investigations of Gop concerns. 

 

 

 

Also VERY important to remember: ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas!

 

????????????????????????

8 hours ago, riclag said:

They will finish! Mueller honorable, I use to think so until the two summit attacks(Helsinki 12 Russian Indictments with no trials  and Argentina Cohen's unexpected court appearance  )! And Republican doesn't mean anything!

I want to  thank you for using his name(Donald Trump),very respectful! 

 

Why do you, or anyone, object to indicting Russians who have broken US laws?

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Why do you, or anyone, object to indicting Russians who have broken US laws?

its not so much an objection to indict the evil Russians.

 I believe that this was done only to bolster the collusion conspiracy theory for. optics. 

If you also consider the Facebook 100$k ad were run mostly after election and

they represent a minisule of ads on Fb and were not even pro trump.

Also its understood that you can indict all the russians  you want of people outside your jurisdiction for show. Those cases are just theater to continue original theory. nothing will come out of them. 

 

Same with the Russian lawyer meeting in Trump tower  (her visa sanction exception granted under Loretta Lynch is very suspicious as well as her meeting with FusionGps before and after TTower meeting)

Same with Cohen , his side kick Slater is an fbi informant with no direct influence or links to Putin. Not even indirect links established.

the devil is in the details.

 

In the end this is for optics to continue this conspiracy theory of russia collusion

as a way of deflecting violations of previous admin till Jan when they recover the house. Meuller is buying time. But his report will mean nothing legally. 

 

new investigation will commence if John Hubers  testimony

regarding his and horowitz(oig) investigation

over the last two years provides fruitful for Trumps coming offense.

stay tuned and enjoy the show.

 

 

 

 

It appears that the Moscow Trump Tower project wasn't the only asset allegedly being bartered by a foreign power with the Trump campaign.

In May 2017 Manafort reportedly suggested he could help broker a deal with Ecuador President Moreno to handover Assange to the US in exchange for concessions from the US like debt relief [when Trump becomes POTUS]. https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/03/politics/ecuador-president-manafort-julian-assange/index.html

Bring Assange to the US and grant him a Presidential Pardon after Trump becomes POTUS?

 

8 hours ago, Srinivas said:

stay tuned and enjoy the show.

See? If you try hard enough, you can find agreement in almost any post. 

9 hours ago, Srinivas said:

its not so much an objection to indict the evil Russians.

 I believe that this was done only to bolster the collusion conspiracy theory for. optics. 

If you also consider the Facebook 100$k ad were run mostly after election and

they represent a minisule of ads on Fb and were not even pro trump.

Also its understood that you can indict all the russians  you want of people outside your jurisdiction for show. Those cases are just theater to continue original theory. nothing will come out of them. 

 

Same with the Russian lawyer meeting in Trump tower  (her visa sanction exception granted under Loretta Lynch is very suspicious as well as her meeting with FusionGps before and after TTower meeting)

Same with Cohen , his side kick Slater is an fbi informant with no direct influence or links to Putin. Not even indirect links established.

the devil is in the details.

 

In the end this is for optics to continue this conspiracy theory of russia collusion

as a way of deflecting violations of previous admin till Jan when they recover the house. Meuller is buying time. But his report will mean nothing legally. 

 

new investigation will commence if John Hubers  testimony

regarding his and horowitz(oig) investigation

over the last two years provides fruitful for Trumps coming offense.

stay tuned and enjoy the show.

 

You think Mueller issued frivolous indictments to to make his investigation look legitimate?  And that John Hubers will uncover something that invalidates all of Mueller's work?

 

Ok, go ahead and believe what you will.  I think you will be disappointed.

Friday should be interesting as Mueller's team will file a pre-sentencing (scheduled for Dec. 12) memo on Cohen.

 

The information contained therein will be a slow-burn for trump's weekend golf rounds.