SURVEY: EU -- Will it survive?

[welovesundaysatspace]

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Not by any member of the populace....

That wasn’t the question. Someone said he is “unelected”. He’s as much unelected as the UK prime minister is.  

 

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

You obviously havn't read the article, it seems you are oblivious to opinions other than your own, similar to the EU I suppose.

You need to understand that there are facts and then there are opinions. It’s a fact that Juncker and EU politicians are elected into their positions. Whatever your opinion is. I can have the opinion that earth is flat or that UKs politicians are unelected Goldman Sachs bankers conspiring for a revolution. Doesn’t change the facts. 

Edited December 9, 2018 by welovesundaysatspace

[nausea]

Yeah, if one thing my MBA taught me it's that teams usually win over individuals. If you think about it WW2 was a team effort. Of course, that presumes you have some strong individuals in your team - France, Germany, GB. GB leaving will weaken the EU in so many ways. Whether it weakens GB time will tell. There's always a place for outliers. I suspect certain sectors of society will suffer terribly, others will benefit. The strongest individuals in today's world are China and the US, I can't see them joining any club soon. Anyway, I support the EU, not because I think its inherently good, but because it's a step on the way. There will need to be a lot of twisting and turning before the EU becomes truly representative of the peoples that support it. The riots in France and the referendum in GB being two examples, two different nations, same problem, two different responses.

[Basil B]

At this time I see the EU at risk of imploding even if the UK remains, the EU must do a lot of navel gazing...

 

In particular the power it has has over all its members countries and for one I would like to see its powers curtailed to those needed to maintain a trading partnership,

[Retiredandhappyhere]

4 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

If there is one thing that Brexit has proved (thank you, Brexiteers) then it’s that Europe is a fact. Questions like this sound a bit like a Siamese twin debating whether it should leave and stand on his own feet. You can do that, maybe, but then you’ll only have one foot to stay on, and you’ll walk without a heart. 

Currently, it is the EU which is leaving individual nations without a heart and that is what voters are beginning to realise.

[welovesundaysatspace]

4 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Currently, it is the EU which is leaving individual nations without a heart and that is what voters are beginning to realise.

Reality looks different. 

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

That wasn’t the question. Someone said he is “unelected”. He’s as much unelected as the UK prime minister is.  

 

You need to understand that there are facts and then there are opinions. It’s a fact that Juncker and EU politicians are elected into their positions. Whatever your opinion is. I can have the opinion that earth is flat or that UKs politicians are unelected Goldman Sachs bankers conspiring for a revolution. Doesn’t change the facts. 

"That wasn’t the question. Someone said he is “unelected”. He’s as much unelected as the UK prime minister is." 

 

The uk PM was elected by the local populace to the HOC.  If he hadn't been elected, he would have been unable to be made PM.

 

Juncker hasn't been elected by the populace at all, and I'm sorry you can't see the difference ☹️.

[grumpy 4680]

46 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

•  

   1 hour ago,  welovesundaysatspace said: 

45 users of a Thailand forum show something about the UK? Interesting. And aren’t you getting tired about always the same lies about the EU? Did you already forget where that “unelected” nonsense has brought you? 

Grumpy 4680        I see no lies, they are un-elected by the millions of people they represent, the cronie MEP's put them there, they are totally un-accountable for there actions, and without proper audits, (could be worse than the Fifa scandal.)

 

I'm sure the EU is quaking in it's boots to see that a bunch of irrelevant retired Farangs are unimpressed by them. Reading some of these complete fantasy posts, I wouldn't be surprised if the UK was happy to see some of them go. The EU is a bunch of unelected bureaucrats... oh really, who taught them that one, no need to guess, just read the figures below.

 

No need to nitpick about the EU president not being a head of state BTW, I'm easily bored. 

           This chart don't mean nothing, Brits can kick thier MP's out at election, but we can't do bug all about European members, so the term elected really does not really apply in most cases. After all, it is the people that should have thier say, and obviously we don't. but just 729 do.

[Grouse]

39 minutes ago, Percy P said:

And their expecting us taxpayer's

 

And their expecting us taxpayer's to pay them £39Bl 

Im not the spelling police and I make plenty or errors myself

 

However, your points are not clear

 

Do you mean

 

and they're expecting us tax payers?

 

and they're expecting us tax payers to pay them £39B?

[Grouse]

8 minutes ago, grumpy 4680 said:

           This chart don't mean nothing, Brits can kick thier MP's out at election, but we can't do bug all about European members, so the term elected really does not really apply in most cases. After all, it is the people that should have thier say, and obviously we don't. but just 729 do.

Uninformed tripe

[Grouse]

The way the poll is worded nicely illustrates how poorly the issue is understood

 

None of the options comes anywhere near my opinion.

[malagateddy]

Why would I read manipulated statements from a guy who is dead since 40 or so years?
 
And for the rest of your post, enjoy your conspiracy theories. 

The TRUTH IS THE TRUTH..Like it or lump it

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[malagateddy]

Kick Germany out through the door (WWII) and it will come back in through the window (EU and euro).
 
Germany has finally conquered Europe, without shedding blood...

Not yet I am glad to say

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[overherebc]

7 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

When Europe is a collection of disunited nation states, world wars begin; that is the lesson of the twentieth century.

 

I am indifferent to the EU, just don't suck the world into violence again.

 

 

I think the days of the soldier blindly following the 'forward he cried from the rear' are over.

Of course you are still going to get conflict between some in the 'further east' parts but I doubt very much if that would result in a world war.

[MaksimMislavsky]

Had the Roman Empire survived? How long did it take for it to disintegrate? Or did it? Just musing...

[JAG]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

That wasn’t the question. Someone said he is “unelected”. He’s as much unelected as the UK prime minister is.  

 

You need to understand that there are facts and then there are opinions. It’s a fact that Juncker and EU politicians are elected into their positions. Whatever your opinion is. I can have the opinion that earth is flat or that UKs politicians are unelected Goldman Sachs bankers conspiring for a revolution. Doesn’t change the facts. 

1

I.m sorry, but that is simply not the case. The UK Prime Minister is by convention the leader of the party which commands (either on its own or by coalition or through some other support, a majority in the House of Commons. He/she is in effect chosen by the electorate when they select the party which they wish to form the government. If for whatever reason a Prime Minister resigns or leaves office, then whoever replaces him/her must still be able to command a majority in the House of Commons. At the next General Election, they are, in effect, once more standing for election. They, therefore, effectively, have a mandate from the people, who have voted amongst other things, for them. At no stage have the electorate of the countries of the EU ever been asked to vote to select, or confirm Mr Juncker. Nor will they be offered a vote to select whoever succeeds him. Mr Juncker functions without having to concern himself about whether an elected parliament supports him - a state of affairs which certainly does not apply to Mrs May!

 

If you can reconcile the selection and appointment of Mr Juncker as an example of a democratically elected government, well that says much about the importance of democracy in the EU. The EU effectively has government by "Fonctionaire", unelected and unaccountable to any directly elected body.

 

 

[JAG]

2 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Kick Germany out through the door (WWII) and it will come back in through the window (EU and euro).

 

Germany has finally conquered Europe, without shedding blood...

Hmm - Winston Churchill (a great European) once said something to the effect of: the Germans are either at your feet or at your throats! Maybe one should now add: or at your wallets?

[Grouse]

"primarily an economic union"

 

Amazing that so many want the Euro and more fiscal integration!

 

(or do too many people just not really understand?

 

Thank god for representative democracy)

[OneMoreFarang]

I have to admit I don't know.

I would love to see a questionnaire with maybe 20 questions which control the EU currently has and what is the responsibility from each country.

I would be very surprised if the majority of people would be able to answer the majority of questions correct.

Many of us have somehow an idea about the EU and what it does. But how many of us really know?

One reason to have the Brexit vote at all was that lots of UK politicians blamed the EU for almost anything which didn't go well. Too many immigrants from Africa. Blame the EU. People lose their jobs. Blame the EU. How many of the Brexit voters knew in 2016 what was the EU's responsibility and what the UK's.

In the last two years many of us learned a lot about the advantages of the EU which few really looked at before.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

The uk PM was elected by the local populace to the HOC.  If he hadn't been elected, he would have been unable to be made PM.

 

Juncker hasn't been elected by the populace at all, and I'm sorry you can't see the difference ☹️.

They can't be thrown out by them either because they're seemingly bomb proof although that could well change after 29 march.

Edited December 9, 2018 by evadgib

[evadgib]

27 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Too many immigrants from Africa. Blame the EU.

Who failed to secure their southern borders & who said "it's that way!" & pointed towards Dover from Calais etc?

What happened to 'First safe haven' or the inability to differentiate between refugee & economic queue-jumpers with the funds to pay their way & who all seemingly turn up with a mobile phone in their pockets?

 

Genuine refugees are more than welcome, as are economic migrants who have the grace to apply via the appropriate channels.

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by evadgib

[7by7]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

"That wasn’t the question. Someone said he is “unelected”. He’s as much unelected as the UK prime minister is." 

 

The uk PM was elected by the local populace to the HOC.  If he hadn't been elected, he would have been unable to be made PM.

 

Juncker hasn't been elected by the populace at all, and I'm sorry you can't see the difference ☹️.

 Junker is the head of the EU commission; the EU's civil service. He holds a similar position in the EU with similar powers to that of the Cabinet Secretary and Head of the Civil Service in the UK, currently Sir Mark Sedwell.

 

They are both appointees and subject to the whims and control of their political masters; in Junker's case the Council of Ministers and the EU Parliament.

 

I'm sorry that you can't see the difference between an official who, although he can advise, has to obey his political masters and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland!

[MalandLee]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

<SNIP>Genuine refugees are more than welcome, as are economic migrants who have the grace to apply via the appropriate channels<END SNIP>.

 

I would hazard a guess that Canada, USA, Australia, New Zealand, Many of the European Countries, plus the rest of the free world, could accept the above premise, reasonably easily.

 

I have one reservation with regards to "Economic Migrants" - **More often than not, they hurt the country they leave.. I believe more will benefit if we apply the same funding to support them in their own countries.

SOURCE: Hurt the country they leave - 6 Minute Video.

 

[evadgib]

 

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

"primarily an economic union"

 

Amazing that so many want the Euro and more fiscal integration!

 

(or do too many people just not really understand?

 

Thank god for representative democracy)

They don't understand.

They don't want the "corrupt" representatives in Brussels so they opt for the corrupt representative back home. 

   I can understand the attraction to home rule, but it provides a huge disadvantage, weakness against strong adversaries. 

 All the arguments against the EU are nonsense fueled by national pride. All the economic problems that fuel this discontent are due to inadequate regulation, the economic meltdown of the last decade happened because of inadequate regulation! Corporate culture needs more regulation not less

The corporate CEO is not a stupid person, he/she knows what needs to be done, but is trapped in a corporate culture that demands short term gains or be replaced.

How successful does one think, Greece on it's own  (for example) would be against Google in  an antitrust case? or negotiating energy requirements with Russia?

 

  Federation is the strength of the US and would be for the EU,

IMO The UK has being an obstruction towards that goal , and it's departure would be a benefit for the EU, it would allow the EU to make the necessary  integresions to become viable.

I would hate to see my British friends go, and be sad for the pain it will cause them, but it does not seem to me they can abandon their post empire   hubris.

  

Edited December 9, 2018 by sirineou
typo

[MyFriend You]

SURVEY: EU -- Will it survive?

The subject is a click bait if you ask me, not one of the options gives you the option to voice an opinion  my answer would have been:

 

NO,,,,,,THE EU WILL NOT SURVIVE. 

 

Hell, it started as a failure when Italy, Turkey, Greece, Portugal and maybe a couple others defaulted and could not come up with the bare minimum capital to be a member.   How many times ,have they defaulted and had to be bailed out??   same same with the United Nations, was a good idea when it started, but has turned into a cash cow for a lot of piss ant countries.

[evadgib]

 

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, JAG said:

Hmm - Winston Churchill (a great European) once said something to the effect of: the Germans are either at your feet or at your throats! Maybe one should now add: or at your wallets?

Pathetic 

 

Funny it always seems to be our military men who hold such embarrassingly outmoded ideas. We've moved on! Get a grip!

[Grouse]

37 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

SURVEY: EU -- Will it survive?

The subject is a click bait if you ask me, not one of the options gives you the option to voice an opinion  my answer would have been:

 

NO,,,,,,THE EU WILL NOT SURVIVE. 

 

Hell, it started as a failure when Italy, Turkey, Greece, Portugal and maybe a couple others defaulted and could not come up with the bare minimum capital to be a member.   How many times ,have they defaulted and had to be bailed out??   same same with the United Nations, was a good idea when it started, but has turned into a cash cow for a lot of piss ant countries.

Ignorant comment

[JAG]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Pathetic 

 

Funny it always seems to be our military men who hold such embarrassingly outmoded ideas. We've moved on! Get a grip!

The self declared possessor of an excellent education, and pompous, arrogant windbag has spoken...

 

Pathetic.  Get a grip yourself. On second thoughts, don't bother, vacuous jelly will just slither through your fingers...

 

Off you go, run bleating to the mods because the nasty rough soldier man has been rude to you.

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, JAG said:

The self declared possessor of an excellent education, and pompous, arrogant windbag has spoken...

 

Pathetic.  Get a grip yourself. On second thoughts, don't bother, vacuous jelly will just slither through your fingers...

 

Off you go, run bleating to the mods because the nasty rough soldier man has been rude to you.

It does seem to be a common denominator though doesn't it? I'm not going to argue with you.