US Embassy reminder: Income affidavits for visas to cease Jan 1

[ocddave]

5 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

LOL ????

 

I was a senior manager in a UK bank - and I am equally convinced that the revenue line vs marginal costs is the driver. You could apply your argument to ALL services provided by the embassy - stop them all on cost cutting grounds, sack the staff and close the place down.

 

This 'spat' is not about money - the Americans and Aussies didn't stop the affidavits/stat decs on cost cutting grounds.

 

Duplication is a red herring - this is two separate entities. Immigration require the embassy letters as per their rules - no way are they going to allow a softer option. Immigration officers are, IMO, incapable of scrutinising a Thai bank book and accurately identifying an applicants income. Mine ranges from 100,000 Baht to 1,000,000 Baht in any one month.

I'm betting if we paid 1700 baht to Immigration instead of the US Embassy for income verifications, they might be willing to accept whatever we place in front of them. I think someone said there were approximately 3000 expats doing these every year, times 1700 baht ($50) would be what, 5 Million Baht?...thats just one country, now there's an incentive, they could add a few more corrupt positions for that kind of money!

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, sumrit said:

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

So people living off savings, with near zero income, be damned?

Or Elite Visas only?

Not at all. If you have savings then you'd be able to bring them over on a monthly basis to qualify. Only people with insufficient income and no savings would get caught out.....

We have only one case where it worked out w/o the embassy-letter (Mukdahan) - but that applicant had a Govt and Military pension to show in addition to proof of deposits.  If he had only foreign-xfers from his "savings" overseas, there is no indication it would have worked. 

 

Also consider the IOs in other offices who have told folks - "No embassy letter = 800K in the bank or no extension for you."  Unless there is a directive from Bangkok, those from the affected countries (and maybe others) will not be getting extensions based on income - only a few lucky folks with friendly IOs running local offices (who maybe process 2 or 3 retirement-extensions per-day) who will accept foreign pension documents plus mo-xfer proof.

 

For those living off of savings (not documented pensions), the only sure-option known to-date would be to move 800K of that savings to a Thai bank.

 

2 hours ago, sumrit said:

But these are the people who are probably working illegally and causing the rest of us extension issues anyway. 

Working illegally?  Why would we work an illegal job here?  Are we going to compete with the Cambodian maid with the "L Visa" for her job cleaning floors, for a fraction of what I could earn in my passport-country working at the worst entry-level job?  And assuming they would be willing to hire an illegal-working farang, when they can get workers on the cheap from 3 neighboring countries who (thanks to coming out of recently-communist poverty-traps) will accept 1/2 what a Thai will accept?

 

I don't mean this personally, but the "working illegally" bit is just propaganda used to justify shafting farangs who were following the rules, but have had the rug pulled out from under them by a corrupt organization who wants to force us to pay them agent-laundered money.  Even English-teachers can get a work-visa, eventually.

To the extent there was fibbing involved in incomes, it would be due to pensions / social-security which didn't quite reach the 65K mark - and few of those even, because most lower-income-pension folks could make up the difference with a couple hundred K baht in a local bank account using the combo-method.

[jimn]

5 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

We have only one case where it worked out w/o the embassy-letter (Mukdahan) - but that applicant had a Govt and Military pension to show in addition to proof of deposits.  If he had only foreign-xfers from his "savings" overseas, there is no indication it would have worked. 

 

Yes I read that claim by the guy from Mukdahan and I am not convinced he used the income method. It was rather a vague claim. I think it was more to the point he had more than 800,000 in a Thai bank and misunderstood the point of the issue about Embassy letters.

[JackThompson]

16 minutes ago, ocddave said:

I'm betting if we paid 1700 baht to Immigration instead of the US Embassy for income verifications, they might be willing to accept whatever we place in front of them. I think someone said there were approximately 3000 expats doing these every year, times 1700 baht ($50) would be what, 5 Million Baht?...thats just one country, now there's an incentive, they could add a few more corrupt positions for that kind of money!

If only it were that simple.  If were just one IO in front of you in on the deal, you could end up on the news together, because his supervisors would not be pleased. 

 

Add a zero, and you are in the ball-park of the going rate, per recent reports.  So, take the 3000, and multiply by maybe 8K or 10K each, and we have an idea of what they are after (not counting the agent's cut). 

And I think the 3K letter-users was just the Brits?  Awhile since I read that thread, so don't hold me to that number.

[JackThompson]

1 minute ago, jimn said:

Yes I read that claim by the guy from Mukdahan and I am not convinced he used the income method. It was rather a vague claim. I think it was more to the point he had more than 800,000 in a Thai bank and misunderstood the point of the issue about Embassy letters.

He said his balance dropped to 55K during the past 3 mo.  But, to put this in perspective (I share your skepticism), the senior IO can waive requirements, so we don't know if he "qualified" per-se, or was simply "allowed" to get his extension out of kindness or whatever.

 

 

[Leatherneck]

2 hours ago, wgdanson said:

I would surmise that it was the fact that you had an Agent with you who possibly donated to the IO fund which got you the Extension. And too many uneducated guesses are flying around TVisa, you would be better keeping them to yourself. They will not be throwing anyone with 800k in the bank for 3 months with it there to live on after that. 

I have no doubt that my agent didn't give a donation to any fund...that's not her style. And I would surmise that I will be in and out of immigration here with my visa extension and MEP next October in less than 3 hours again...which is all that anyone on Thai Visa can hope for.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Leatherneck

[Olmate]

9 minutes ago, Leatherneck said:

I have no doubt that my agent didn't give a donation to any fund...that's not her style. And my educated guess is that I will be in and out of immigration here with my visa extension and MEP next October in less than 3 hours again...which is all that anyone on Thai Visa can hope for.

Not my agent either, she,s different to all the others! If your next years effort doesn’t,t have a letter , how will it happen?assuming your last one did!

[gk10002000]

On 12/13/2018 at 6:41 AM, garyk said:

As long as you have it deposited in a Thai bank monthly no problems what so ever I would think.

Many people don't have a regular pension per se, but have quarterly stock or bond fund dividends, or even yearly annuity, etc.  So having to make monthly deposits would require at least some sort of "buffer" account to store up the dividends, interest, rental income, royalties or whatever and then they could make a "regular" deposit.  But every deposit or transfer costs money.  In addition now the foreigner has to have a Thai bank account.  Will the Thais accept one transfer every three months that is equal to three months of income?  What if the person doesn't need to spend that much money every month?  Now they are still supposed to transfer in money regardless?  And what if the person travels out of Thailand or back to their home country for an extended period?  The person now would still be expected to transfer money into Thailand even though they are not in Thailand?  This whole thing is going to affect so many people in bad ways.

[DrJack54]

13 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Many people don't have a regular pension per se, but have quarterly stock or bond fund dividends, or even yearly annuity, etc.  So having to make monthly deposits would require at least some sort of "buffer" account to store up the dividends, interest, rental income, royalties or whatever and then they could make a "regular" deposit.  But every deposit or transfer costs money.  In addition now the foreigner has to have a Thai bank account.  Will the Thais accept one transfer every three months that is equal to three months of income?  What if the person doesn't need to spend that much money every month?  Now they are still supposed to transfer in money regardless?  And what if the person travels out of Thailand or back to their home country for an extended period?  The person now would still be expected to transfer money into Thailand even though they are not in Thailand?  This whole thing is going to affect so many people in bad ways.

Finally I read a post that IMHO sums it up. I agree with gk 100%.

Yes there is lot of guys here on minimum pensions etc. Fact is many are not. Yes the rocks at me will come thick and fast. Fact is some of us have multiple incomes from home country. Be it rentals of property portfolio or superannuation upwards of 1mill USd. These folk are mega rich. They are the one that didn't opt out if work hard at silly age. Personally I hope Thai imm scrap monthly income supported by embassy and raise money in Thai bank from 3 months to 12.

[JLCrab]

5 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

And what if the person travels out of Thailand or back to their home country for an extended period?  The person now would still be expected to transfer money into Thailand even though they are not in Thailand?  This whole thing is going to affect so many people in bad ways.

Anyone who is in their home country for an extended period time should find it easy enough to get an OA visa.

[Jip99]

9 hours ago, ocddave said:

I'm betting if we paid 1700 baht to Immigration instead of the US Embassy for income verifications, they might be willing to accept whatever we place in front of them. I think someone said there were approximately 3000 expats doing these every year, times 1700 baht ($50) would be what, 5 Million Baht?...thats just one country, now there's an incentive, they could add a few more corrupt positions for that kind of money!

 

 

That is a very valid point - and in the absence of greed it would work.

 

With stories of immigration offices demanding 20,000 Baht to 'fix' an extension, lesser amounts to side-step seasoning, I can't help thinking they would expect more than 1,700 Baht for 'an easy ride'. Certainly very difficult for them to commit an alternative into black and white rules.

[Lipoman]

I don't understand two things here:  the 800K THB in a Thai bank, and the lack of a proper Visa to reside in Thailand. 

 

I am doing my homework to ensure I follow the rules for legally immigrating to and living in Thailand. 

 

I will put my 800K THB into Bangkok Bank (New York, USA, branch) to fulfill the financial requirement of me per Thai Immigration rules.  Also, from my pensions, I will be adding to this amount, modestly increasing the balance each year. 

 

I will apply for, and should be able to receive a "Retirement Visa", based upon my age (53). 

 

Based upon my understanding of satisfying these two requirements, I don't understand what several posters are whining about on this forum? 

 

If you have the income, why are you not able to put 800K THB into a Thai bank? If you don't have the cash on hand, can you get a loan from your home country to meet this requirement? 

 

I read of several posters here stating "extensions" to their Thai Visas.  Why do you lack the proper Thai Visa which allows you to legally live in Thailand  without having to get an extension?  Aside from visiting a Thai Immigration office every 90 days to verify one's home address in Thailand, why would anyone need an "extension"?  Unless those folks lack the proper Visa to reside in Thailand. 

 

My post is to learn about your situations, so I can do things right to legally live in Thailand.  Please reply to my post with an intelligent, factual answer(s). Thanks. 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Lipoman
Added one supporting sentence.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Lipoman said:

I will put my 800K THB into Bangkok Bank (New York, USA, branch) to fulfill the financial requirement of me per Thai Immigration rules.  Also, from my pensions, I will be adding to this amount, modestly increasing the balance each year. 

You would not be able to have an account at the New York branch. You would transfer your money to an account here via the NY branch.

1 hour ago, Lipoman said:

I read of several posters here stating "extensions" to their Thai Visas.  Why do you lack the proper Thai Visa which allows you to legally live in Thailand  without having to get an extension?  Aside from visiting a Thai Immigration office every 90 days to verify one's home address in Thailand, why would anyone need an "extension"?  Unless those folks lack the proper Visa to reside in Thailand. 

There is the OA long stay visa for being 50 or over. It can only be applied for at a Thai embassy or official consulate. The OA visa allows unlimited one year entries for a year from the date of issue. It is possible get a total stay of almost 2 years from the visa. You can show proof of the equivalent of  800k in a US bank to apply for it or proof 65k baht income. 

See: http://thaiembdc.org/consular-services/non-immigrant-visas/non-immigrant-category-oa/

Most people enter on a single entry non-o visa that allows one 90 day entry and then apply for a one year extension of stay based upon retirement which requires the 800k baht in a Thai bank.

Edited December 15, 2018 by ubonjoe
edited to correct a typo

[Olmate]

42 minutes ago, Lipoman said:

I don't understand two things here:  the 800K THB in a Thai bank, and the lack of a proper Visa to reside in Thailand. 

 

I am doing my homework to ensure I follow the rules for legally immigrating to and living in Thailand. 

 

I will put my 800K THB into Bangkok Bank (New York, USA, branch) to fulfill the financial requirement of me per Thai Immigration rules.  Also, from my pensions, I will be adding to this amount, modestly increasing the balance each year. 

 

I will apply for, and should be able to receive a "Retirement Visa", based upon my age (53). 

 

Based upon my understanding of satisfying these two requirements, I don't understand what several posters are whining about on this forum? 

 

If you have the income, why are you not able to put 800K THB into a Thai bank? If you don't have the cash on hand, can you get a loan from your home country to meet this requirement? 

 

I read of several posters here stating "extensions" to their Thai Visas.  Why do you lack the proper Thai Visa which allows you to legally live in Thailand  without having to get an extension?  Aside from visiting a Thai Immigration office every 90 days to verify one's home address in Thailand, why would anyone need an "extension"?  Unless those folks lack the proper Visa to reside in Thailand. 

 

My post is to learn about your situations, so I can do things right to legally live in Thailand.  Please reply to my post with an intelligent, factual answer(s). Thanks. 

Hope this is intelligent and factual enough,keep learning , you must do more home work and don,t say people are whining when you aren’t,t aware of their situation. We all did things right to legally live here till someone decided otherwise! You don’t live here legally with a visa, you enter with a visa and you have permission to stay renewed annually. You were able to use income as a way to renew, now you cannot. As a new set of eyes, what’s your suggestion?

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

You would not be able to have an account at the New York branch.

Likely an omitted word typo as you would not be able to have an account at the New York branch.

 

"Our New York branch is a US federally chartered branch which operates as a wholesale bank."

 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/International-Banking/Europe-and-North-America/United-States-Business-Banking

[DrJack54]

23 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Hope this is intelligent and factual enough,keep learning , you must do more home work and don,t say people are whining when you aren’t,t aware of their situation. We all did things right to legally live here till someone decided otherwise! You don’t live here legally with a visa, you enter with a visa and you have permission to stay renewed annually. You were able to use income as a way to renew, now you cannot. As a new set of eyes, what’s your suggestion?

The post your replying to is a chap that has confused a non o based on retirement then obtaining annual 12 month permission of stay to an non O-A. Think he is currently in USA and as such can apply for an O-A in home country. Would need to do that every couple of years. That doesn't suit many others that live los and do not return home country often or simply prefer to "extension of permission of stay".

Personally I do travel back to au every year so could easily do the O-A. ..,however docs are required to be notorized so I live in Thailand with annual extensions.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Likely an omitted word typo as you would not be able to have an account at the New York branch.

Thanks it is now fixed.

[Olmate]

9 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

The post your replying to is a chap that has confused a non o based on retirement then obtaining annual 12 month permission of stay to an non O-A. Think he is currently in USA and as such can apply for an O-A in home country. Would need to do that every couple of years. That doesn't suit many others that live los and do not return home country often or simply prefer to "extension of permission of stay".

Personally I do travel back to au every year so could easily do the O-A. ..,however docs are required to be notorized so I live in Thailand with annual extensions.

Understood,  my reply to him was in regard to his whining comment when not understanding the actual situation we are in! 

[jimn]

1 hour ago, Lipoman said:

I don't understand two things here:  the 800K THB in a Thai bank, and the lack of a proper Visa to reside in Thailand. 

 

I am doing my homework to ensure I follow the rules for legally immigrating to and living in Thailand. 

 

I will put my 800K THB into Bangkok Bank (New York, USA, branch) to fulfill the financial requirement of me per Thai Immigration rules.  Also, from my pensions, I will be adding to this amount, modestly increasing the balance each year. 

 

I will apply for, and should be able to receive a "Retirement Visa", based upon my age (53). 

 

Based upon my understanding of satisfying these two requirements, I don't understand what several posters are whining about on this forum? 

 

If you have the income, why are you not able to put 800K THB into a Thai bank? If you don't have the cash on hand, can you get a loan from your home country to meet this requirement? 

 

I read of several posters here stating "extensions" to their Thai Visas.  Why do you lack the proper Thai Visa which allows you to legally live in Thailand  without having to get an extension?  Aside from visiting a Thai Immigration office every 90 days to verify one's home address in Thailand, why would anyone need an "extension"?  Unless those folks lack the proper Visa to reside in Thailand. 

 

My post is to learn about your situations, so I can do things right to legally live in Thailand.  Please reply to my post with an intelligent, factual answer(s). Thanks. 

You sir need to do a lot more homework I am afraid. Listen to what Ubonjoe has told you and you will not go wrong. Argue with him if you wish, however you will find he is right most of the time. You really need to choose your words better as a new contributor, you may need peoples advice at some stage, best not to rub people up the wrong way.

[malagateddy]

I wouldn't bet the farm that immigration will be OK as late as July 2019. Their inability to get common agreement throughout the kingdom on the rules would have me losing sleep, as well as hair if I had any left, over this issue. I suspect some offices will say "screw it, your letter no good now" any time between now and July.

I think I read on this Forum that the Imm Big Wigs are coming out with a statement in next few weeks re "the way forward".

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jip99]

Just now, malagateddy said:

I think I read on this Forum that the Imm Big Wigs are coming out with a statement in next few weeks re "the way forward".

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

 

That will be worth waiting for then.....................

 

 

Not holding my breath.

[DrJack54]

37 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Understood,  my reply to him was in regard to his whining comment when not understanding the actual situation we are in! 

Very true. There are MANY expats living here that are using the embassy letter. Some "pay their way" but perhaps can't go down the money in bank method. So its a stressful time for some. Wish Thai imm would pull their finger out and explain in DETAIL what they will require in absence of embassy affidavit in the future

[ubonjoe]

A post containing political comments has been removed. Political discussions are not allowed on this forum.

[Olmate]

4 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Very true. There are MANY expats living here that are using the embassy letter. Some "pay their way" but perhaps can't go down the money in bank method. So its a stressful time for some. Wish Thai imm would pull their finger out and explain in DETAIL what they will require in absence of embassy affidavit in the future

I’m pretty sure the best way is to redo at home,but doesn’t suit everyone.The notorised point you raised is easy, JP can do, did mine originally. The police check is the time consuming one tho I read here a bloke used the on line method to get a clearance and also used a Thai medical, both were accepted by Canberra Thai Embassy.Hence all done in a few days.Money stays at home, can use income and get 2 years with multi benefits for 1, it makes sense but doesn’t get much coverage here.

[DrJack54]

17 minutes ago, Olmate said:

I’m pretty sure the best way is to redo at home,but doesn’t suit everyone.The notorised point you raised is easy, JP can do, did mine originally. The police check is the time consuming one tho I read here a bloke used the on line method to get a clearance and also used a Thai medical, both were accepted by Canberra Thai Embassy.Hence all done in a few days.Money stays at home, can use income and get 2 years with multi benefits for 1, it makes sense but doesn’t get much coverage here.

Just to demonstrate "thainess" exists outside if Thailand.... My initial idea was to live los on O-A, as I return to Australia each year for few weeks. So I had all my docs witnessed by J.P as per requirements outlined on consulate website, Canberra, Au. My application was rejected. I finally got to speak to immigration up the food chain. I put it to her that reason given for rejection, "was not notarized by lawyer" whereas the printed advice was lawyer OR JP. Her very polite reply.."yes sir but some immigration officers no like accept JP".....5555. True story. I then got a non o from Vientiane. 

[Lipoman]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You would not be able to have an account at the New York branch. You would transfer your money to an account here via the NY branch.

There is the OA long stay visa for being 50 or over. It can only be applied for at a Thai embassy or official consulate. The OA visa allows unlimited one year entries for a year from the date of issue. It is possible get a total stay of almost 2 years from the visa. You can show proof of the equivalent of  800k in a US bank to apply for it or proof 65k baht income. 

See: http://thaiembdc.org/consular-services/non-immigrant-visas/non-immigrant-category-oa/

Most people enter on a single entry non-o visa that allows one 90 day entry and then apply for a one year extension of stay based upon retirement which requires the 800k baht in a Thai bank.

Ubonjoe, thanks for the civil reply to my post. 

 

One question about your post: "The OA visa allows unlimited one year entries for a year from the date of issue. It is possible get a total stay of almost 2 years from the visa."  The OA Visa allows unlimited one year entries.  Do you mean I can exit and reenter Thailand many times during each year the OA Visa is valid?

 

Here in Korea, I receive a Multiple Entry stamp in my passport, so I can exit and reenter Korea as frequently as I choose (typically, six times per year with no hassles (yet)).  Along with an OA Visa, will Thai Immigration place a Multiple Reentry stamp in my passport too, upon my request or does that stamp require additional paperwork from me?  Thanks. 

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, Lipoman said:

Do you mean I can exit and reenter Thailand many times during each year the OA Visa is valid?

You can enter as many times as you want to for the year the visa is valid.

7 minutes ago, Lipoman said:

Along with an OA Visa, will Thai Immigration place a Multiple Reentry stamp in my passport too, upon my request or does that stamp require additional paperwork from me?

You would not need a re-entry permit until after your visa expire or if you would be out of the country when it expires. You would need a re-entry permit to keep the remainder of the last one year entry from the visa. You could apply for a multiple re-entry permit for a fee of 3800 baht at immigration that would be valid for entry to the country up to the date your last one year permit to stay ends.

[JackThompson]

11 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

They are the one that didn't opt out if work hard at silly age.

Or have their work "opted out" to another country, or their job handed to a cheap foreign-worker in-country (both includes white-collar "hard degree"/STEM college-grads), or have their property holdings wiped out (in 2008), or have an unexpected medical issue occur (most medical-bankruptcies in the USA to spite having insurance).  Some have had to adapt to some or all of these events, over which we had no control. 

 

I don't resent others for being successful through the combination of hard work, savings, and luck - I was more lucky than most - but it is a bit thick when those who didn't have to  face these tactics during their careers, turn around and blame folks for "opting out" of work which literally ceased to exist (repeatedly, career after new career), to provide the cheap products and labor which allowed for a maximization of their savings.

 

12 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Personally I hope Thai imm scrap monthly income supported by embassy and raise money in Thai bank from 3 months to 12.

And then, to top it off, hoping we should be booted out of Thailand via rules-changes by immigration / embassies - another event over which we had no control? 

[Lipoman]

2 hours ago, Olmate said:

Hope this is intelligent and factual enough,keep learning , you must do more home work and don,t say people are whining when you aren’t,t aware of their situation. We all did things right to legally live here till someone decided otherwise! You don’t live here legally with a visa, you enter with a visa and you have permission to stay renewed annually. You were able to use income as a way to renew, now you cannot. As a new set of eyes, what’s your suggestion?

 

2 hours ago, Olmate said:

Hope this is intelligent and factual enough,keep learning , you must do more home work and don,t say people are whining when you aren’t,t aware of their situation. We all did things right to legally live here till someone decided otherwise! You don’t live here legally with a visa, you enter with a visa and you have permission to stay renewed annually. You were able to use income as a way to renew, now you cannot. As a new set of eyes, what’s your suggestion?

Olmate, my suggestion is put the 800K THB into the bank, as I will do, and not worry about this situation any further.  That is what my inference was to the whining on this forum. 

 

As I previously questioned, can you (or others) get a loan from a financial institution in your home country equivalent to 800K THB, and then put it into a Thai bank? 

 

Additionally, although the Thai Immigration rules have changed, the farangs must adapt to these changes.  It sucks, I understand. 

 

Remember: non-Thais are living in Thailand purely by the good grace of the Thai authorities, who, if they chose to do so, could require all farangs to depart Thailand. 

 

I play by the immigration rules here in Korea, and for these past 25 years, I have had zero problems with any immigration matter.  

[Lipoman]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

The post your replying to is a chap that has confused a non o based on retirement then obtaining annual 12 month permission of stay to an non O-A. Think he is currently in USA and as such can apply for an O-A in home country. Would need to do that every couple of years. That doesn't suit many others that live los and do not return home country often or simply prefer to "extension of permission of stay".

Personally I do travel back to au every year so could easily do the O-A. ..,however docs are required to be notorized so I live in Thailand with annual extensions.

DrJack54, yes, I am a USA man.  I don't normally travel to the States; have been there 4 times in the past 18 years.  It's just not for me. ????

 

I acknowledge I have confused the various types of Visas for entering and residing Thailand, that's why I'm asking questions here.  Thanks for your civility and understanding.