Brexit sends Britons seeking Irish passports up 22 percent in 2018

[webfact]

Brexit sends Britons seeking Irish passports up 22 percent in 2018

 

An anti-Brexit protester carries flags past the Houses of Parliament in London, Britain, December 11, 2018. REUTERS/Peter Nicholls/Files

 

DUBLIN (Reuters) - The number of British citizens applying for Irish passports rose by 22 percent in 2018, Ireland's foreign office said on Monday, more than doubling the total of annual applications since Britain voted to leave the European Union.

 

Almost 100,000 eligible Britons sought to hang onto their EU citizenship via a passport from their nearest neighbour this year, up from 81,000 last year and 46,000 in 2015, the year before the Brexit vote led to a sharp rise in applications.

 

Anybody born in the Irish Republic or Northern Ireland, or with an Irish parent or grandparent, is entitled to an Irish passport - a total of about 6 million British citizens. They are able to hold dual citizenship.

 

Registrations for Irish passports in Northern Ireland, whose citizens can hold both an Irish and British passport as the province is part of the United Kingdom, rose by 2 percent in the year to the end of December.

 

With three months left until the UK is due to leave the EU on March 29, the draft divorce deal reached between both sides is floundering ahead of a planned vote in the British parliament next month, opening up a range of possibilities from a Brexit without a trade deal to calling it off entirely.

 

(Reporting by Padraic Halpin; Editing by Alison Williams)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-12-31

[Guest]

Following the logic of nationalistic brexitters: 

 

UK immigrants are trying to come to EU in flocks. We should stop this special treatment, close our borders and make sure they can't get in! 

 

[Celer et Audax]

Following the logic of nationalistic brexitters: 
 
UK immigrants are trying to come to EU in flocks. We should stop this special treatment, close our borders and make sure they can't get in! 
 

There is no special treatment involved they are just exercising their right as either the children or grandchildren of Irish citizen as laid down in the Irish Constitution,this was further enhanced as part of the Good Friday agreement to include the children and grandchildren of anybody born on the island of Ireland


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Celer et Audax said:

There is no special treatment involved they are just exercising their right as either the children or grandchildren of Irish citizen as laid down in the Irish Constitution,this was further enhanced as part of the Good Friday agreement to include the children and grandchildren of anybody born on the island of Ireland


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Exactly, I can't see the problem with the OP article indicating that the number of people seeking Irish/British dual citizenship has risen to almost 100,000?

[samran]

The irony of all of this is that following Brexit, given the Common Travel Area, Irish will still have free movement to come and live in and work in the UK, and Ireland will be the only place in the EU where Brits will have automatic work and residency rights. 

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, samran said:

The irony of all of this is that following Brexit, given the Common Travel Area, Irish will still have free movement to come and live in and work in the UK, and Ireland will be the only place in the EU where Brits will have automatic work and residency rights. 

I can't see a problem with this, bearing in mind Ireland has similar wages to the uk?

[evadgib]

12 minutes ago, samran said:

The irony of all of this is that following Brexit, given the Common Travel Area, Irish will still have free movement to come and live in and work in the UK, and Ireland will be the only place in the EU where Brits will have automatic work and residency rights. 

That's been the norm for decades & has bugger all to do with the EU or its forerunner. I am among those eligible to claim ancestral Irish citizenship but as yet can see no reason why I should bother.

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

That's been the norm for decades & has bugger all to do with the EU or its forerunner. I am among those eligible to claim ancestral Irish citizenship but as yet can see no reason why I should bother.

Two friends of mine already done it. Insurance. While able.

[Basil B]

Anybody know what the figures are for the Irish and other EU nationals seeking British Passports???

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, evadgib said:

That's been the norm for decades & has bugger all to do with the EU or its forerunner. I am among those eligible to claim ancestral Irish citizenship but as yet can see no reason why I should bother.

Quite.  I could claim Finnish citizenship, but can see no reason to do so.

[Basil B]

22 hours ago, samran said:

The irony of all of this is that following Brexit, given the Common Travel Area, Irish will still have free movement to come and live in and work in the UK, and Ireland will be the only place in the EU where Brits will have automatic work and residency rights. 

Brexit will probably <deleted> the CTA too...

[samran]

21 hours ago, Basil B said:

Brexit will probably <deleted> the CTA too...

The agreement predates the EU, so will remain in effect, though there will probably be the need to formalise some of the arrangements.

 

Its interesting to note that neither Ireland or the UK consider each others citizens as 'foreign' under domestic law.

[SheungWan]

19 minutes ago, baansgr said:

I thought he was Russian...

Some of the Conspiracy Theory munching Brexiteers might like to be.

[SheungWan]

18 minutes ago, samran said:

The agreement predates the EU, so will remain in effect, though there will probably be the need to formalise some of the arrangements.

Its interesting to note that neither Ireland or the UK consider each others citizens as 'foreign' under domestic law.

All types of allowances absorbed on joint membership of the EU. Quite another kettle of fish after Brexit.

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, hyku1147 said:

The EU is a product of revolution, not evolution; consequently, Citizens of an EU country, who wish to preserve It's values and traditions, are labeled as racists, xenophobes, and bigots. Immigrants need to focus upon how they will assimilate into their Host's culture. Unfortunately, they are not doing this. They should be shown the example of British Columbia's Chinese Canadian communities. They are fully integrated, yet maintain their original culture within their private lives.

God save the Queen!

Going to have to listen to all sorts of drunken ramblings up Soi Buakhaow tonight and some appear to have already kicked off.

[Rimmer]

Some flames and replies have been removed

[Basil B]

31 minutes ago, samran said:

The agreement predates the EU, so will remain in effect, though there will probably be the need to formalise some of the arrangements.

 

Its interesting to note that neither Ireland or the UK consider each others citizens as 'foreign' under domestic law.

Then how are you going to stop other EU citizens flying or sailing to the republic and just walking other an open border???

[SheungWan]

3 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Then how are you going to stop other EU citizens flying or sailing to the republic and just walking other an open border???

Apparently they are all going to be wearing bar codes on the back of their shirts as they try to cross the border. Brexiteer solution No.1.

Edited December 31, 2018 by SheungWan

[samran]

16 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

All types of allowances absorbed on joint membership of the EU. Quite another kettle of fish after Brexit.

As they say in Australia, yeah.......nah.

 

" The Common Travel Area pre-dates Irish and UK membership of the EU and is not dependent on it. Detailed work is ongoing, both at home and bilaterally between Ireland and the UK, to ensure that all necessary provisions are made in both jurisdictions so that the CTA continues to function effectively. There is therefore no reason to expect that a ‘no deal’ Brexit would affect the operation of the CTA. The CTA has also been recognised in the negotiations and there is agreement in the draft Protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland that Ireland and the UK may “continue to make arrangements between themselves relating to the movement of persons between their territories”. "

 

https://www.dfa.ie/brexit/getting-ireland-brexit-ready/brexit-and-you/

 

https://www.dfa.ie/brexit/getting-ireland-brexit-ready/brexit-and-you/living-working-in-the-uk/

 

" Confirmation that the Common Travel Area arrangements and the associated rights and privileges of British and Irish citizens are protected if the UK leaves the EU with no deal. "

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/travelling-in-the-common-travel-area-if-theres-no-brexit-deal

[SheungWan]

8 minutes ago, samran said:

As they say in Australia, yeah.......nah.

" The Common Travel Area pre-dates Irish and UK membership of the EU and is not dependent on it. Detailed work is ongoing, both at home and bilaterally between Ireland and the UK, to ensure that all necessary provisions are made in both jurisdictions so that the CTA continues to function effectively. There is therefore no reason to expect that a ‘no deal’ Brexit would affect the operation of the CTA. The CTA has also been recognised in the negotiations and there is agreement in the draft Protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland that Ireland and the UK may “continue to make arrangements between themselves relating to the movement of persons between their territories”. "

https://www.dfa.ie/brexit/getting-ireland-brexit-ready/brexit-and-you/

https://www.dfa.ie/brexit/getting-ireland-brexit-ready/brexit-and-you/living-working-in-the-uk/

" Confirmation that the Common Travel Area arrangements and the associated rights and privileges of British and Irish citizens are protected if the UK leaves the EU with no deal. "

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/travelling-in-the-common-travel-area-if-theres-no-brexit-deal

So......... how are Irish citizens going to be distinguished from other EU citizens at the border which the UK says it will not reimpose? And...given there will not be any UK/EU transitional arrangements as at said date?

Edited December 31, 2018 by SheungWan

[samran]

7 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

So......... how are Irish citizens going to be distinguished from other EU citizens at the border which the UK says it will not reimpose? And...given there will not be any UK/EU transitional arrangements as at said date?

The $20 million dollar question.

 

Ireland and the UK always have had, and will continue to have their very own mini-schegen. Except that visa arrangements with in it have always differed. A UK tourist visa for a non-EU national didn't enable you to travel to Ireland if you needed a visa there, and vice versa. The only people who technically have 'free movement' in the CTA are UK and Irish nationals.

 

Spot checks were supposedly done on 'others', but I've travelled between the two dozens of times as a non-EU national (plane, road and ferry) and have never been checked.

[welovesundaysatspace]

44 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

The EU is a product of revolution, not evolution; consequently, Citizens of an EU country, who wish to preserve It's values and traditions, are labeled as racists, xenophobes, and bigots. Immigrants need to focus upon how they will assimilate into their Host's culture. Unfortunately, they are not doing this. They should be shown the example of British Columbia's Chinese Canadian communities. They are fully integrated, yet maintain their original culture within their private lives.

 

God save the Queen!

Would be interesting to know how deep some of the barstool Brexiteers have assimilated into their host culture in Thailand (other than giving teerak her monthly payment and drinking local beer). The immigrants in Europe I know are better integrated than some of those walking ATMs I see in Thailand who after 20 years cannot even pronounce สวัสดีครับ correctly. 

[samran]

7 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Would be interesting to know how deep some of the barstool Brexiteers have assimilated into their host culture in Thailand (other than giving teerak her monthly payment and drinking local beer). The immigrants in Europe I know are better integrated than some of those walking ATMs I see in Thailand who after 20 years cannot even pronounce สวัสดีครับ correctly. 

They'll tell you that their visa says 'non-immigrant' on it so they aren't immigrants. Even though they have no intention of ever going 'home', the rules for fitting in and learning the local lingo doesn't apply to them. The country would fall apart financially without them, so they think.

 

The truth is, they only ever use the word 'immigrant' for brown people who shift countries. These blokes are mighty 'expats' instead.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by samran

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, samran said:

They'll tell you that their visa says 'non-immigrant' on it so they aren't immigrants. Even though they have no intention of ever going 'home', the rules for fitting in and learning the local lingo doesn't apply to them.

 

The truth is, they only ever use the word 'immigrant' for brown people who shift countries. These blokes are mighty 'expats' instead.

 

 

Home is wherever I spend my pension.

It doesn't have to be spent in Thailand, the world is a big place.

I've lost interest in cheap pussy, if it wasn't for my 7yo son I'd already have gone.

I consider myself more a 'tourist' than an 'expat'.

Edited December 31, 2018 by BritManToo

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

Anybody know what the figures are for the Irish and other EU nationals seeking British Passports???

What the Brexiteers would like probably is some chunky figures of individuals seeking to drop EU nation state passports in favour of UK passport. I would think the smart money is looking for dual citizenship. eg Nigel Farage kids.

[7by7]

It is true that the CTA predates both the UK's and RoI's membership of the EU by several decades.

 

However, it is not set in stone and can be amended or even abolished completely.

 

As an example of this, look at the Schengen Agreement and setting up of the Schengen Area in 1985.

 

The UK didn't want to join, the RoI did. But, joining Schengen, with it's fully open borders and removal of passport and other immigration checks and one visa for all members, when the UK didn't would have meant setting up such checks between the RoI and UK. In other words, abolishing or at the very least considerably amending the Common Travel Area.

 

The Irish government at the time decided maintaining the original CTA was more beneficial to the Republic than joining Schengen, so like the UK the RoI did not join the Schengen Area.

 

Leap forward 13 years to 1998 and the Good Friday Agreement enshrined the principle of an open border between the RoI and the UK. But that assumed that there would be no external forces acting upon this, such as one country leaving the EU whilst the other remained inside.

 

Now move forward to 2016 and the referendum result. Brexit essentially has the same effect on the CTA as the RoI joining Schengen when the UK didn't would have had. It's not an insurmountable problem, but a problem it is.

 

Though it is worth remembering that the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are in the CTA but are not, and never have been, EU members. 

 

Of course, the combination of ignorance and arrogance displayed by most Brexiteers makes them believe there is no problem because the EU will eventually kow tow and give us everything we want.

 

Not that the CTA has anything to do with this topic. Those eligible British citizens who are taking up Irish citizenship in ever increasing numbers are doing so not to be able to travel freely between the UK and RoI; but to maintain their Freedom of Movement rights through the rest of the EEA and Switzerland after Brexit.

 

That a handful of expats living in Thailand don't want to do the same does not alter that simple fact.

[7by7]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I can't see a problem with this, bearing in mind Ireland has similar wages to the uk?

So why are the Irish second only to the Poles when it comes to exercising free movement rights in the UK?

 

I remember a time when the Irish were still resented by some for, allegedly, taking British jobs from British workers. Not ancient history, this was the 1980s!

 

This only changed when the Eastern European countries joined the EU and so the ire of the xenophobes was redirected towards nationals of those countries.

[7by7]

3 hours ago, Basil B said:

Anybody know what the figures are for the Irish and other EU nationals seeking British Passports???

I do recall reading somewhere some time ago that applications for British citizenship from those EU nationals eligible (passed the LitUK test, hold at least B1 of the CEFR in English speaking and listening, at least 5 years UK residency, held PR in the UK for at least 12 months etc.,) had increased since the referendum due to fears over their status here post Brexit. However, whilst there are official figures for the number of naturalisation applications each year, they are not broken down by the nationality of the applicant.

 

But remember, 

21 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Those eligible British citizens who are taking up Irish citizenship in ever increasing numbers are doing so not to be able to travel freely between the UK and RoI; but to maintain their Freedom of Movement rights through the rest of the EEA and Switzerland after Brexit.

 

Irish and other EU nationals who qualify applying for British citizenship will not gain much as there are very few places, if any, where a British passport would be more advantageous than the one they already hold and certainly for travel within the EEA and Switzerland it may very well be disadvantageous; especially if one wished to study, work or retire there.

[Sir Dude]

Anyone in the UK (whether British or otherwise) that doesn't like the idea of the country becoming a sovereign nation that can make its own decisions again knows where the airports are. If you love the EU dictatorship so much then go be with them. Kind of reminds me of hearing something similar about airports thrown around all too often on forums in Thailand when foreigners say stuff. If you become unhappy with somewhere because it has changed, then maybe time to move on some place else. 

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, Sir Dude said:

Anyone in the UK (whether British or otherwise) that doesn't like the idea of the country becoming a sovereign nation that can make its own decisions again knows where the airports are. If you love the EU dictatorship so much then go be with them. Kind of reminds me of hearing something similar about airports thrown around all too often on forums in Thailand when foreigners say stuff. If you become unhappy with somewhere because it has changed, then maybe time to move on some place else. 

 

 

I did ......

 

...and a Happy Brexit New Year to all on Thai Visa..