Brexit sends Britons seeking Irish passports up 22 percent in 2018

[vogie]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 Sorry, I'm entirely missing your point.

I cannot find anything about the difference between an Immigrant versus the Non Immo from Thailand, but this from the US customs and Border Control explains it quite clearly. 

Seeing that Thailand can kick us out anytime they so wish, I wouldn't have thought that we can safely say we are living here permanently.

 

"An immigrant visa (IV) is issued to a person wishing to live permanently in the U.S.

A nonimmigrant visa (NIV) is issued to a person with permanent residence outside the United States, but wishes to be in the U.S. on a temporary basis for tourism, medical treatment, business, temporary work or study, as examples."

 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/72/~/what-is-the-difference-between-an-immigrant-visa-vs.-nonimmigrant-visa-%3F

[Mavideol]

On 12/31/2018 at 2:07 PM, samran said:

The irony of all of this is that following Brexit, given the Common Travel Area, Irish will still have free movement to come and live in and work in the UK, and Ireland will be the only place in the EU where Brits will have automatic work and residency rights. 

wonder what the Irish are saying... history shows some bad blood with some UK members

[Mavideol]

On 12/31/2018 at 2:33 PM, Basil B said:

Anybody know what the figures are for the Irish and other EU nationals seeking British Passports???

-100,000

[7by7]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

I cannot find anything about the difference between an Immigrant versus the Non Immo from Thailand, but this from the US customs and Border Control explains it quite clearly. 

Seeing that Thailand can kick us out anytime they so wish, I wouldn't have thought that we can safely say we are living here permanently.

 

"An immigrant visa (IV) is issued to a person wishing to live permanently in the U.S.

A nonimmigrant visa (NIV) is issued to a person with permanent residence outside the United States, but wishes to be in the U.S. on a temporary basis for tourism, medical treatment, business, temporary work or study, as examples."

 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/72/~/what-is-the-difference-between-an-immigrant-visa-vs.-nonimmigrant-visa-%3F

That may be the US version; but that does not mean it is the Thai one!

 

From your quote

Quote

A nonimmigrant visa (NIV) is issued to a person with permanent residence outside the United States, but wishes to be in the U.S. on a temporary basis for tourism, medical treatment, business, temporary work or study, as examples."

This, obviously, does not describe the majority of those living in Thailand with a non immigrant visa as they are living permanently, or at least indefinitely, there as pensioners or spouses of a Thai or similar. They do not have a permanent residence outside Thailand, though in the case of the UK at least could resume such here were they to return, and are not there "on a temporary basis for tourism, medical treatment, business, temporary work or study, as examples."

 

But if we accept the premise that an immigrant requires permanence in their host country to be such, then most immigrants to the UK are not immigrants at all!  Even after living here for at least 5 years and achieving indefinite leave to remain they do not have irrevocable permanent residence. Indefinite is not the same as permanent and ILR can be removed or lapse.

[7by7]

On ‎12‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 7:33 AM, Basil B said:

Anybody know what the figures are for the Irish and other EU nationals seeking British Passports???

 

13 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

-100,000

 Care to provide a link to the source of that figure? 

 

As I said earlier, the official stats do not show the original nationality of those applying for naturalisation as British.

[Mavideol]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

 Care to provide a link to the source of that figure? 

 

As I said earlier, the official stats do not show the original nationality of those applying for naturalisation as British.

Almost 100,000 eligible Britons sought to hang onto their EU citizenship.....

[7by7]

20 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

Almost 100,000 eligible Britons sought to hang onto their EU citizenship.....

What has that got to do with your answer to Basil B's question?

 

We know about the number of eligible Brits applying for Irish citizenship; it's in the OP!

[7by7]

56 minutes ago, Humid said:

The Middle East is coming back to haunt you

Last time I looked, Ireland was an island to the west of the island of Great Britain; not in the Middle east.

 

Have they moved it?

[Mavideol]

23 hours ago, 7by7 said:

What has that got to do with your answer to Basil B's question?

 

We know about the number of eligible Brits applying for Irish citizenship; it's in the OP!

if you don't understand the joke... your problem

[dick dasterdly]

On 1/1/2019 at 5:43 PM, 7by7 said:

 

You are missing something.

 

What you are missing is knowledge of the UK's immigration rules and requirements and how they compare to Thailand's.

 

That and the fact that you could, if you put a bit of effort into it, obtain permanent residence status in Thailand, even Thai citizenship; but it's so much easier not to bother and either do a visa run or 90 day reporting..

 

I cannot give you a direct UK comparison with those, presumably from what you've said like you, who are living in Thailand on their pension. because there is no equivalent UK visa.  There is a retired person of independent means visa, current fee £1949 plus the IHS surcharge of £2000. But the applicant for one must have a close connection to the UK such as family living here and their own income of at least £25,000 p.a. After 5 years they can apply, and pay, for indefinite leave to remain, provided they meet all the requirements. If they don't, they cannot extend this visa and so have to leave the UK. They cannot then apply to re-enter the UK in this category. It's 5 years residence and then ILR or 5 years residence and leave and only come back as a visitor; if at all.

 

Of course, the most common reason for Thais immigrating to the UK is as the partner of a UK citizen; which is far from inexpensive.

 

Initial visa: £1523 (payable in USD at a rate favourable to UKVI, so add 5 to 8% onto that!) plus immigration health surcharge of (w.e.f. 8/1/19) £1200.

 

In addition the sponsor has to show they have in the UK, or will have within three months of their return, an income of at least £18,600p.a. or cash savings of at least £62,500.

 

Plus the cost of taking the required English test (at least A1 of the CEFR. How many expats in Thailand can speak Thai even to this basic level, I wonder.)

 

After 30 months, further leave to remain: £1033 plus the IHS of, this time, £1000.

 

The financial requirement has to met again, plus a higher level of English ability; A2. If one or the other are not then the application will be refused and the applicant told to leave the UK.

 

30 months later, application for indefinite leave to remain; cost £2389, though no IHS at this stage.

 

Again, financial requirement needs to be met, plus a higher level of English, B1, and the life in the UK test.

 

Again, if the financial requirement cannot be met, they will have to leave the UK. Though if the do meet the financial requirement but not the language one then they can apply for another FLR instead.

 

A total of £7145. This will increase in each and every April when the fees go up. Plus, of course, if there are non British dependents than they have to pay the same fees, and the financial requirement goes up as well.

 

I know that, provided all the requirements are met, these payments stop after ILR, unless they go to the final step of naturalisation as British (application fee £1330).

 

It would be an interesting comparison to see how many extensions you could obtain, and therefore long you could live in Thailand for, paying a total in immigration fees of £7145.

 

I should add, of course, that the border run option is not available in the UK; not legally anyway! Visitors to the UK cannot spend more than 6 months out of 12 in the UK unless they have an exceptional reason for so doing; severe family illness for example.

 

BTW, I know this is widely off topic; but you did ask.

Thank you for replying with genuine info. - and I agree that it is (generally) far harder for a (non-EU citizen) to legally move to the UK legally, than for a Brit. to move to Thailand .

 

I also freely admit that I didn't know the UK rules regarding the "retired person of independent means visa".  The cost of said visa is certainly more expensive than here in Thailand, but the income required is (relatively) far lower?  i.e. 25,000 sterling p.a. which is pretty much the average UK salary?  Unlike Thailand, where the income required is multiples of the average Thai salary.  Additionally, even though having to prove that income every year, we still have to report to Immigration every 90 days....

 

Re. "That and the fact that you could, if you put a bit of effort into it, obtain permanent residence status in Thailand, even Thai citizenship; but it's so much easier not to bother and either do a visa run or 90 day reporting.." - the 'problem' here (IMO) is that:-

 

a) From everything I've read or heard, it's not as easy as you suggest to obtain permanent resident status in Thailand.

 

b) I suspect (but don't know) that those who have moved here to work for a company, don't intend to stay here permanently?

 

c) The majority who have moved to Thailand with the intention of remaining permanently are either:

 i) pensioners (who understandably, wish to live a quiet, peaceful life) and don't want to fight an uphill battle to gain Thai     citizenship.  Plus, as we get older, it is FAR more difficult to become even relatively fluent in the Thai language.                 Especially if, like me, you're tone deaf!

 ii) younger people scrabbling to find a job enabling them to stay (and they mostly end up moving elsewhere eventually          (?))

 iii) people who have married a Thai, so obviously wish to live here permanently with their wife and children.  The only           group with a very good reason (and assuming they're young) for them to work hard to try to jump through the hoops         for Thai citizenship?

 

As you say, this is off topic, for which I apologise.

[evadgib]

Seen today & reasonably close to being on topic:

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Seen today & reasonably close to being on topic:

 

Is that really what Brexiteers understand as “taking back control”? Anyways, congratulations for this tremendous success. I couldn’t think of anything more important than this. 

[evadgib]

Just now, welovesundaysatspace said:

Is that really what Brexiteers understand as “taking back control”? Anyways, congratulations for this tremendous success. I couldn’t think of anything more important than this. 

At this moment in time nor can I.

[7by7]

On 1/3/2019 at 2:40 AM, dick dasterdly said:

<snip.
I also freely admit that I didn't know the UK rules regarding the "retired person of independent means visa".  The cost of said visa is certainly more expensive than here in Thailand, but the income required is (relatively) far lower?  i.e. 25,000 sterling p.a. which is pretty much the average UK salary?  Unlike Thailand, where the income required is multiples of the average Thai salary.  Additionally, even though having to prove that income every year, we still have to report to Immigration every 90 days....

All true; but you forget one vital point.

 

To be eligible for a UK retired person of independent means visa the applicant must have family already living in the UK or some other 'close connection' with the UK. There is no such requirement for a Thai retirement visa,

 

As for your other points; yes, it is not easy to get PR in Thailand, but I did say effort was required.

 

Also, many people who come to the UK on PBS visas to work have no intention of remaining either; and in many cases can't anyway!

 

On 1/3/2019 at 2:40 AM, dick dasterdly said:

As you say, this is off topic,

Indeed, so if you wish to continue this discussion may I suggest we do so elsewhere?

 

[7by7]

On 1/3/2019 at 11:59 AM, evadgib said:

Seen today & reasonably close to being on topic:

 

Surprise, surprise; we leave the European Union and so the words 'European Union' are taken of our passports. Who would have thought it!? 

 

But yo say 'Seen today?'

 

It was announced in December 2017!

 

Blue UK passport to return after EU exit

 

Please try and keep up!

[7by7]

11 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

Woking? You're joking!

Check your facts before you make such comments; that way you wont make a fool of yourself.

 

A bit out of date, as from 2011, but from Woking Census Demographics United Kingdom

Quote

The religious make up of Woking is 58.8% Christian, 22.6% No religion, 7.4% Muslim, 2.0% Hindu, 0.7% Buddhist, 0.2% Jewish, 0.2% Sikh, 0.1% Agnostic

That is for the whole borough. In the actual town, where I and most immigrants and people of immigrant heritage live, the percentage of immigrants and people of immigrant heritage is much higher.

 

11 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

By the way, your comments on PR (permanent residence) in Thailand are also questionable. PR cannot be obtained by putting in a "bit of effort", or whatever your phrase was. There are specific criteria for the different routes into PR. There's a very long term thread on this forum about it.

Just as there are specific criteria for ILR in the UK. Criteria which have to be met, or out you go.

 

No doubt you had to meet specific criteria for those countries in which you obtained PR.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Surprise, surprise; we leave the European Union and so the words 'European Union' are taken of our passports. Who would have thought it!? 

 

But yo say 'Seen today?'

 

It was announced in December 2017!

 

Blue UK passport to return after EU exit

 

Please try and keep up!

Keeping up? I don't expect you to have noticed or remember but I did in fact post the original 2017 announcement in REAL TIME! ????

[7by7]

 

28 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Keeping up? I don't expect you to have noticed or remember but I did in fact post the original 2017 announcement in REAL TIME! ????

So why say 'Seen today' as if you were reporting something new?

 

But your mates at Westmonster are definitely well behind the times as they only reported this yesterday as if they were breaking news. Yet you often quote their Facebook ramblings as if they are an unimpeachable source!

[evadgib]

23 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

So why say 'Seen today' as if you were reporting something new?

 

But your mates at Westmonster are definitely well behind the times as they only reported this yesterday as if they were breaking news. Yet you often quote their Facebook ramblings as if they are an unimpeachable source!

If it wasn't for the constant drivvel generated by your camp for a full two years I would never have picked up the Brexit batton and started running with it as I did just one month ago! If you're having the same effect on others in the silent majority as you have had on me you'll have done more for our cause than Fergage, JRM & Co put together! ????

What a wonderful, wonderful Prat! ????

[7by7]

6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

If it wasn't for the constant drivvel generated by your camp for a full two years I would never have picked up the Brexit batton and started running with it as I did just one month ago. If you're having the same effect on others in the silent majority as you have had on me you'll have done more for our cause than Fergage, JRM & Co put together! ????

What a wonderful Prat! ????

 

Ah, the old Brexiteer tactic of reverting to childish insults when faced with unanswerable questions and unpalatable truths.

 

You don't disappoint.

 

I'll respond to you again when (if) you have something adult to say.