2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

As far as I'm aware, although you may know differently, the UK is still a parliamentary democracy. So a vote for a second referendum is certainly an option.

 

You are indeed correct.

 

It's just the Brexiters trying to pretend the referendum that was narrowly won by them was a once in a lifetime, never to be challenged, can't be changed, etc etc.

 

They'd sooner drive over a cliff than break when they see the edge!

16 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

The UK never really was fully committed to be an EU member. As such it is probably better if it just leaves without any deal. See how alignment with Trump's USA works or maybe enjoy a splendid isolation.

But for now, PLEASE LEAVE. Put up with the consequences of the Brexit the UK voted for and have a nice journey jumping off the cliff.

 

The indecisiveness of the UK is pathetic. For the moment, the EU is better off without the UK, although I hope that in the future the UK will decide to rejoin again but with a proper sense of commitment..

 

 

Rubbish. The UK was a fully committed member and big net contributor to the EU.

 

It wasn't the only member state that didn't join the Euro folly, Shengen or advocate "ever closer union".

 

And it was one of the countries, like Germany, that genuinely tried to implement and abide by all the rules.

16 hours ago, Grouse said:

Brexit will be abandoned 

 

May's deal is dead

 

A no deal Brexit will be killed by parliament.

 

The game is up.

 

Hope you're right Grousy!

 

If so I'll unload the Shotgun - 555!

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You are indeed correct.

 

It's just the Brexiters trying to pretend the referendum that was narrowly won by them was a once in a lifetime, never to be challenged, can't be changed, etc etc.

 

They'd sooner drive over a cliff than break when they see the edge!

Actually it was Cameron and his govt. that said something along these lines, i.e.  "a once in a lifetime" vote (not leavers) prior to the referendum....

 

Not even leavers are arguing that it is a "never to be challenged, can't be changed, etc etc." result - just that the referendum result needs to be enacted first, and then (of course) remainers are free to form a party (as per UKIP) that supports returning to the eu.

 

 

Edited January 4, 20197 yr by dick dasterdly

15 hours ago, oilinki said:

 

Brexitters best friend, Russia, has already made fun of UK's global power aims ????

Now even the Russians are laughing out loud.

 

 

 

 

We've got Nukes  - you ain't. Next time Russia decided it wants to annex you, don't count on our help.

Edited January 4, 20197 yr by Baerboxer

I think the big dilemma in all of this, is that many of the Labour, and some Tory, MPs are in seats where there was a big leave vote. If Brexit is scuppered they could easily be deselected for the next election.

 

As far as I'm aware, the default position is that we will leave in 80 days or so time, unless parliament vote, and adopt May's proposal (or another as yet no details, an improved deal??!!). The other option is for parliament to vote for a second referendum on the matter. I am not sure if this has to take place before the UK leaves or not.

Edited January 4, 20197 yr by owl sees all

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Actually it was Cameron and his govt. that said something along these lines, i.e.  "a once in a lifetime" vote (not leavers) prior to the referendum....

 

Not even leavers are arguing that it is a "never to be challenged, can't be changed, etc etc." result - just that the referendum result needs to be enacted first, and then (of course) remainers are free to form a party (as per UKIP) that supports returning to the eu.

 

 

 

Wow - Cameron now a poster on TVF! Who'd have though Dave would do that.

 

Not sure which one he is as several keep posting as if the decision can't ever be changed!

 

And all it takes is the spineless May and her government to withdraw Article 50 and then give MP's a free vote in our representative democracy. A GE can then be fought with all parties declaring their stand on the EU - leave or stay.

 

Dave and May tried to mess with the system and use it for their own ends. Shouldn't have.

 

6 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

I think the big dilemma in all of this, is that many of the Labour, and some Tory, MPs are in seats where there was a big leave vote. If Brexit is scuppered they could easily be deselected for the next election.

 

As far as I'm aware, the default position is that we will leave in 80 days or so time, unless parliament vote, and adopt May's proposal (or another as yet no details, an improved deal??!!). The other option is for parliament to vote for a second referendum on the matter. I am not sure if this has to take place before the UK leaves or not.

 

If they act quickly, Article 50 can be withdrawn. That would give time for a full parliamentary debate and vote (possibly free vote) and allow for another referendum and/or General Election before we jump off the cliff.

 

It's becoming more and more obvious that the current government couldn't manage a piss up in a brewery let alone one of the most complex issues ever challenging the UK. 

7 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Wow - Cameron now a poster on TVF! Who'd have though Dave would do that.

 

Not sure which one he is as several keep posting as if the decision can't ever be changed!

 

And all it takes is the spineless May and her government to withdraw Article 50 and then give MP's a free vote in our representative democracy. A GE can then be fought with all parties declaring their stand on the EU - leave or stay.

 

Dave and May tried to mess with the system and use it for their own ends. Shouldn't have.

 

And whose been doing same ever since?

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Wow - Cameron now a poster on TVF! Who'd have though Dave would do that.

 

Not sure which one he is as several keep posting as if the decision can't ever be changed!

 

And all it takes is the spineless May and her government to withdraw Article 50 and then give MP's a free vote in our representative democracy. A GE can then be fought with all parties declaring their stand on the EU - leave or stay.

 

Dave and May tried to mess with the system and use it for their own ends. Shouldn't have.

 

"Wow - Cameron now a poster on TVF! Who'd have though Dave would do that.

Not sure which one he is as several keep posting as if the decision can't ever be changed!"

 

Please try not to be silly....

 

Prior to the referendum I was 'on the fence'.

 

After the referendum I hoped that the result would force the eu into self-reform - but instead they preferred to rely on a 'no negotiating about the important things until money to be paid to us has been sorted out' - and then coming up with every difficulty possible, whilst still having no interest in talking about trade!  And May and the brit. govt. supported this ☹️.

 

Which is why I'm now a (sort of reluctant) brexiteer.

 

The uk govt. and MPs would undoubtedly prefer to remain - but they have to find a way to fool the electorate into thinking that they support democracy.....

14 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

If they act quickly, Article 50 can be withdrawn. That would give time for a full parliamentary debate and vote (possibly free vote) and allow for another referendum and/or General Election before we jump off the cliff.

 

It's becoming more and more obvious that the current government couldn't manage a piss up in a brewery let alone one of the most complex issues ever challenging the UK. 

Which part of L-E-A-V-E don't you get?

37 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

We've got Nukes  - you ain't. Next time Russia decided it wants to annex you, don't count on our help.

This statement approved by that prominent supporter of Brexit, Vladimir Putin.

Back on topic, it does seem that a no deal brexit is becoming more likely to happen by default ????.

Just now, bristolboy said:

This statement approved by that prominent supporter of Brexit, Vladimir Putin.

You and oilinki should get together, as you're both convinced that it's all a result of 'the russians' ????!

 

But please don't annoy the rest of us with this type of propaganda, insisting that brits. were influenced by russian propaganda.....

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Hope you're right Grousy!

 

If so I'll unload the Shotgun - 555!

That's very sporting if you!

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Actually it was Cameron and his govt. that said something along these lines, i.e.  "a once in a lifetime" vote (not leavers) prior to the referendum....

 

Not even leavers are arguing that it is a "never to be challenged, can't be changed, etc etc." result - just that the referendum result needs to be enacted first, and then (of course) remainers are free to form a party (as per UKIP) that supports returning to the eu.

 

 

Parliament are under no obligation to act on an advisory referendum. How many times do I need to tell you?

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Parliament are under no obligation to act on an advisory referendum. How many times do I need to tell you?

I can only assume that you are extremely pissed?

 

Cameron promised that the referendum result would be enacted - it was only after the referendum that remainers pointed out that legally, it was only 'advisory'....

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Back on topic, it does seem that a no deal brexit is becoming more likely to happen by default ????.

dd,

slow down - the game is still wide open - anything might happen, anything

 

 

Just now, melvinmelvin said:

dd,

slow down - the game is still wide open - anything might happen, anything

 

 

I agree.

 

All we know is that the majority of MPs support remain, but are worried that if they defy the referendum result it (probably) won't end well for them.

 

'Democracy' is the way they hold power - defy that, and they have lost even the delusion of democracy....

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree.

 

All we know is that the majority of MPs support remain, but are worried that if they defy the referendum result it (probably) won't end well for them.

 

'Democracy' is the way they hold power - defy that, and they have lost even the delusion of democracy....

delusions are what humankind thrive on - don't remove 'em

 

30 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I can only assume that you are extremely pissed?

 

Cameron promised that the referendum result would be enacted - it was only after the referendum that remainers pointed out that legally, it was only 'advisory'....

Cameron  committed himself

Cameron committed his cabinet

Cameron committed the government

 

Cameron did not commit parliament, for good reasons - it was not within his power

Just now, melvinmelvin said:

Cameron  committed himself

Cameron committed his cabinet

Cameron committed the government

 

Cameron did not commit parliament, for good reasons - it was not within his power

Funny how none of the MPs (or media) stated this prior to the referendum result....

Edited January 4, 20197 yr by dick dasterdly

 

More...

 

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Parliament are under no obligation to act on an advisory referendum. How many times do I need to tell you?

As often as you like ????

 

Edited January 4, 20197 yr by evadgib

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Parliament are under no obligation to act on an advisory referendum. How many times do I need to tell you?

The constitution 101 argument for the 10,000 time. No-one of any significance in government seems to agree with you about this.

 

Given your expressed wish to disenfranchise (ie remove the vote from) the working class, where are you planning to stop? Women? "Minorities" (let's not forget the British South Asian voters were one of the many groups who tipped the balance in favour of Leave)? People on a salary less than nnnnnnnn? People without quaternay education? People who pay less tax than nnnnnn?

 

Perhaps you would feel happier in a more authoritarian state? By the way, are you planning to return to your native country after March 29th?

Edited January 4, 20197 yr by My Thai Life

9 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

The constitution 101 argument for the 10,000 time. No-one in government seems to agree with you about this.

 

Given your expressed wish to disenfranchise (ie remove the vote from) the working class, where are you planning to stop? Women? "Minorities" (let's not forget the British South Asian voters were one of the many groups who tipped the balance in favour of Leave. People on a salary less than nnnnnnnn? People without quaternay education? People who pay less tax than nnnnnn?

 

Would you feel more happy in a more authoritian state? By the way, are you planning to return to your native country after March 29th?

You're leading an army of straw men. While Grouse may wish that his opinions carried the force of alw, whatever his opinions may be about which currently legitimate voters are fit to vote and which are not, a 2nd referendum won't be excluding any of them. 

And it makes sense the South Asian voters would be in favor of Brexit. It eliminates a lot of the competition. Did women vote for Brexit? I think a lot of your straw men are all wet.

Edited January 4, 20197 yr by bristolboy

Re:OP

 

Whereas the comments of Liam Fox (30/12/18) point to the possibility of a "third way":

 

Brexit only has a '50-50' chance of happening, says Liam Fox ...

 

 

Edited January 4, 20197 yr by Enoon

57 minutes ago, evadgib said:

As often as you like.

 

And Liam Fox has also given you a gentle reminder.

 

Or perhaps just a little bit of forewarning?

 

See post #58.

 

 

 

Was already aware of that when I posted.