Thai Credit / Debit Card Ripoff

[turnip]

When using foreign credit / debit cards in Thailand, depending on the retail outlet, you sometimes get the bill already converted from Thai Baht to your local currency, in my case, UK pounds. This seems to becoming more common. Not all retailers do it, but many do.

I was in a Fuji restaurant the other day and used a British Nationwide Visa debit card to pay the bill. As usual, I just checked the total figure was correct and signed – such is my trust of the Visa service.

After I paid I took a closer look at statement I had signed.

“I accept that I have been offered a choice of currencies for payment. I acknowledge that I a choice to pay in THB. I understand the chosen currency is final and that this service is not offered by Visa … No Refunds.”

Obviously I was not offered any such option. Never have been. I doubt very much ever will be.

The total bill was 799 baht and I had been charged £13.82. An incredibly poor exchange rate of 57.80 baht to the pound!

I left the restaurant and went to an ATM. Using the same debit card I withdrew 800 baht, exactly 8 minutes later. Checking my account online today I find £11.52 was debited from my account at an exchange rate of 69.44 baht to the pound. That’s massive £2.30 markup for Bankok Bank on a sale that should have cost £11.52!

It is absolutely fraudulent. Multiply that by the number of tourist using overseas credit / debit cards and they’re laughing … all the way to the bank.

In their defense, if people use credit cards that have an exorbitant fee for overseas sales the rip off might be balance out. But if you’re a savvy about such things, don’t let the b****** rip you off.

If you get a credit card slip converted to your home currency, say no thanks.

[samran]

how is it fraudulent? You have the Terms and Conditions right there. You also have an ATM from which to pull cash out of to avoid the crappy rate which you'd get at a exchange rate booth in the UK for THB anyways.

You are right to give a warning though to people to be a bit more careful with their card usage.

[MartinBKK]

I have also experienced this many times - I always insist on the transaction being made in Baht. In almost all cases eventually the staff in the shop/restaurant have managed to do this for me although it is a real pain sometimes.

It is yet another example of trying to rip off tourists in Thailand - i sometimes wonder why they are continuing to holiday here.

[pumpuiman]

I have also experienced this many times - I always insist on the transaction being made in Baht. In almost all cases eventually the staff in the shop/restaurant have managed to do this for me although it is a real pain sometimes.

It is yet another example of trying to rip off tourists in Thailand - i sometimes wonder why they are continuing to holiday here.

I'm sure management has instructed staff to bill the higher rate. Most wait staff are probably unaware that this is an "option" for the customer.

[Phil Conners]

Don't ever pay with plastic in Thailand!!

I did it once and my card was subsequently used in Japan and Malaysia until it was maxed out. Eventually the card company took care and I wasn't liable for the fraud, but I was without funds for some time until a new card could be produced and the cost of issuing it and have it sent over her UPS was substantial.

Thailand is still a cash soceity. Use proper bank ATM's and make cash withdrawals and you're normally ok.

[smartecosse]

actually quite often is the card processing companies way of making money

they have minimal commissions for shops etc using them then they make the bulk of their funds from playing with the exchange rate that they give to customers.

you should se ethe "rip offs" when its a US$6000 package etc that is put thorugh

[dave111223]

At the moment i actually get a better rate when the when they charge my card is USD.

Previously i have conplained about it as they screw you by about 1.5 Baht per USD. But they screw on the onshore rate (right now about 35.7), so it they bill you at 34.2. Howver with the offshore spread so wide i'm getting 33.XX on the ATM withdrawls...

[Axel]

I pay everything by card if the amount is over Baht 4-500. Always get charge the correct amount in Baht and in deed would feel strange if somebody wanted to debit US$ or any other currency.

Using cards issued in Hong Kong, Switzerland and Thailand.

The only exception is in Vietnam, where on the invoice theshow already VN Dong and US$ to than charge US$, obviously, as the Dong is not freely convertible.

[turnip]

how is it fraudulent? You have the Terms and Conditions right there. You also have an ATM from which to pull cash out of to avoid the crappy rate which you'd get at a exchange rate booth in the UK for THB anyways.

Technically not fraudulent, i agree. But when they have you sign such a catch all waiver points to fact that either they've had complaints from VISA or are protecting themselves from complaints they expect. It is a rip off and it's done in away to catch out tourist. I'm not arguing a point of law but a point of ethics. Ethically, it's fraudulent.

[thaihome]

I have also experienced this many times - I always insist on the transaction being made in Baht. In almost all cases eventually the staff in the shop/restaurant have managed to do this for me although it is a real pain sometimes.

It is yet another example of trying to rip off tourists in Thailand - i sometimes wonder why they are continuing to holiday here.

Wonder how many othe countries you have used your credit card in?

TH

[Meerkat]

I have also experienced this many times - I always insist on the transaction being made in Baht. In almost all cases eventually the staff in the shop/restaurant have managed to do this for me although it is a real pain sometimes.

It is yet another example of trying to rip off tourists in Thailand - i sometimes wonder why they are continuing to holiday here.

Wonder how many othe countries you have used your credit card in?

TH

Agreed. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Thailand - the practise is worldwide with Visa and M/C. AFAIK Amex hasn't started doing it (yet).

You just have to get in to the habit of saying "Bill me in THB please" or whatever currency when you hand your card over. And stick to your guns if they do convert.

[topfield]

The practice is called dynamic currency conversion (DCC) and Spain is the country where it is most prevalent . In fact due to commission charges on exchange at banks one can sometimes get an equal or better rate through DCC , but not in Thailand.

Nationwide B.S are waging a campaign against this practice and have issued a leaflet to their cardholders and posted a warning on their website. Visa also mentions this practice on their website.

Other banks and cards ignore the issue. Full marks to Nationwide

[Khun Bob]

Do a chargeback on the basis that you were not offerred the option and do not agree to it - your meal may be free then...

[monty]

Anybody ever shop in Homepro, Carrefour building central Pattaya???

At every check out they have a sticker clearly giving you two options.

The first is to deduct your card in Thai Baht, where the final exchange rate will be determined by the card issuing bank!!!

The second is to deduct your card directly in your home currency. This will lock in the exchange rate of the day... On your payment slip the exchange rate will clearly be visible, and this should be the going day rate as found on the currency exchange web page from the bank whose credit card machine is used!

This is of course only for credit cards, because on a credit card charge, the exchange rate of the day when the card issuer makes the monthly bill will be used. This might differ a lot from the day you did the actual purchase...

[Meerkat]

HomePro (but in Rangsit) was where I had my biggest hassle in getting billed in THB. The first chit came with the amount converted to HKD at an appalling rate (I remember it being about USD 150 worse than where spot was - it was a large purchase). Took an hour or so, including calling both their bank and mine, to get it sorted. The staff themselves were trying to be helpful throughout - they simply hadn't been taught how to use the CC machine properly.

[Livinginexile]

This is very interesting, I used my M/Cin a hotel yesterday and for the first time ever I saw the AU$ conversion.

It also has the days exchange rate at the botom of the slip, I was not offerend an alternative.

At first glance I thought it was better.

Usually my bank will do the conversion in Australia and they give a lousy exchange rate back but I noticed on the slip I got 27.01/AU$....thats a lot better rate than i would get at home (excluding fees).

Umm...am i missing something here?

I got 27.01 yesterday....at the same time my Oz bank was offering 26.3.

In my books it looks like a better deal to have it converted here instead of home?

Have I done the math correctly? or am I missing something here?

[Meerkat]

It might be because of the large gap between on- and off-shore rates at the moment. So the rate you got was better than you could get offshore, but worse than the rate you could get onshore. If that makes any sense!

If you are paying in any other country where there's only one rate, you'll be better-off paying in the local currency.

[Livinginexile]

At the moment i actually get a better rate when the when they charge my card is USD.

Previously i have conplained about it as they screw you by about 1.5 Baht per USD. But they screw on the onshore rate (right now about 35.7), so it they bill you at 34.2. Howver with the offshore spread so wide i'm getting 33.XX on the ATM withdrawls...

I'm with you Dave.

By my calculations the exchange rate I get on my M/C here in Thailand if they charge me in AU$ is much better than if the exchange is done at my bank in Australia.

I have yet to look at the fees but if the rate is as per my payment slip then I am winning.

I got 27.1bht/AU$

My banks rate is 26.3 in Australia.

[Khun Bob]

So it is best to pay in THB, not your Local currency, check the figures and receipt before you sign - if not good then negotiate or abort...

Is this right ? This should get the best possible onshore rate ?

[Livinginexile]

So it is best to pay in THB, not your Local currency, check the figures and receipt before you sign - if not good then negotiate or abort...

Is this right ? This should get the best possible onshore rate ?

I'm a bit confused too. I paid in my lcal currency and got a much better exchange rate but others post here and say paying in THB and they got a better rate.

All I know is when they charge me in AU$ I get a much better rate than paying in THB

[Khun Bob]

So it is best to pay in THB, not your Local currency, check the figures and receipt before you sign - if not good then negotiate or abort...

Is this right ? This should get the best possible onshore rate ?

I'm a bit confused too. I paid in my lcal currency and got a much better exchange rate but others post here and say paying in THB and they got a better rate.

All I know is when they charge me in AU$ I get a much better rate than paying in THB

I guess now it depends where the conversion is done - and this seems to depend on the card type - I may be wrong but Visa seem to give you a onshore exchange rate for transactions done in Thailand in THB, I'm not sure about foreign currency transactions on a Visa in Thailand. If you have a master card, Topfield has stated, that doing a THB transaction in Thailand gives the offshore rate.

What would be good is to have a table of card type ie visa, mastercard, amex etc against currency THB, Other and in each cell have the exchange rate used by the issuer ie onshore or offshore - then whoever has a card could choose what is best for them - so as you say livinginexile it may be better to pay in your cards local currency in thailand than pay in THB... However with a different card type it may be the opposite...

Anyone fancy having a go at a table (Topfield?)

I want to get through to mastercard international to find their daily exchange rates for GBP:THB...