Tips//Advice//Help?

[MrGone23]

Hey everyone, First time posting but have read tons here before and figured it could not hurt.

A bit of a read i suppose.

So a little info about my/our situation i guess.

 

I am 31 white US citizen and have been dating my now Thai Wife for about 11 Months since Feb of 18.

I spent 5 months here last year from Feb-July on a Tourist Visa and have been back here on another one since Nov of 18.

We decided to get married in December and started to gather everything we need to convert my Tourist Visa into a Type-O.

Everything had been pretty smooth up until this week, I should also mention that we are staying about 3 hours North of Bangkok so it is a bit more rural.

On Monday we went to the local Immigration office to meet with the head of the branch, Upon entering i was asked to wait outside and

only my wife was allowed to speak with him, I figured something was going on but was not to worried. After about an hour she comes out looking pretty upset,

Apparently she was told by this officer that not only would he not convert my Visa but that i would need to go back to the US and get a new Type-O Visa from there,

and that if i came back to his office with a Type-O from any other country than the US he would not extend it.

He then told my wife that only the Thai Embassy in the US was capable of checking that i was not a criminal... after a few other comments along those lines

he told her that things would be very easy if i went back the US and got the Type-O.

He then gave my wife his personal phone number and told her she could call him if she needed any help or assistance with this.

Now, my wife and most of her friends and family took this as "Oh he wants some Money." 

 

I tend to just kind of go with what she says being that i am very new here, so that did not seem to hard to believe.

Now my wife works a lot and is very proud of her work, i won't go into to much detail about what she does, but needless to say

she is very very against the idea of paying this guy to do his job, Upon which i told her, well what if i just go back to the US and get the Type-O?

She then said that he is a very greedy person and will likely find something wrong if we do it the way he told us to.

So i told her i support her and will gladly do whatever she thinks is the best coarse of action, but on my end this feels like kind of an impass to me.

I mean the options seem slim at best right? Considering we live her we have to do everything at this office correct? Bangkok has told us everything must

be done here locally and he is he head of this office...So...Yeah haha.

 

I guess i am just asking for what someone else in this position would do, I love me wife very much and want to make all of this as easy as possible for her.

She is reaching out to some friends that can maybe help but all in all i am just trying to go with the flow here.

Honestly i have a bunch of other questions that are just more out of curiosity but really if anyone has any thoughts i would love to hear them.

Thanks everyone.

[ubonjoe]

Immigration cannot deny an extension stay based upon where the visa was issued. Apparently the officer does not have a clue about what a embassy can do when they issue a visa. They certainly can not do a criminal background check before issuing one.

If you want to apply for a one year extension of stay I suggest you go to a nearby embassy or consulate and apply for single entry non-o visa and then do the application again. 

You could also get a multiple entry non-o visa based upon marriage in Savannakhet Laos that would allow unlimited 90 day entries for a year from the date of issue.

[MrGone23]

52 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Immigration cannot deny an extension stay based upon where the visa was issued. Apparently the officer does not have a clue about what a embassy can do when they issue a visa. They certainly can not do a criminal background check before issuing one.

If you want to apply for a one year extension of stay I suggest you go to a nearby embassy or consulate and apply for single entry non-o visa and then do the application again. 

You could also get a multiple entry non-o visa based upon marriage in Savannakhet Laos that would allow unlimited 90 day entries for a year from the date of issue.

Thanks for the info, I to was curious what would happen if I just went and got a type-O in Laos, and just put in for the extension as normal. But I am curious he is the head of this division office. Couldn't he deny the extension based on something else completely arbitrary? Just because he can? If the extension is denyed is there an appeal process that goes above this individual?

[ubonjoe]

He can only not accept your application before you pay the fee. The final approval is done at the division headquarters for an extension based upon mariage.

I think the problem you had was because you were applying for a change of visa status to get the 90 day non immigrant visa entry needed to apply for the extension and they did not really want to accept the application for it.

I suspect you would not have a problem if you went back after getting a non-o visa to apply for an extension with all the required documents and financial proof.

[Tanoshi]

From the conversation he had with your wife and subsequent mention of criminal checks and an '0' Visa from the US,

it appears he was thinking of the Non Imm O-A Visa, which would only be available to you from the US and requires a health  and criminal record check.

You would then only be required to make 90 day reports at your local office.

Some offices are reluctant to accept applications for 'marriage extensions' if there is an alternative.

 

I get the impression the IO is just jealous of a young, financially secure foreigner and/or is after a back hander.

You could ring the Immigration hotline 1178 for further advice on the situation.

 

It could though, as Joe suggested, be less problematic to get either a single or ME Non Imm O from the Savannakhet Consulate based on marriage, then already possessing a type 'O' Visa apply for the extension based on marriage.

[MrGone23]

38 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

He can only not accept your application before you pay the fee. The final approval is done at the division headquarters for an extension based upon mariage.

I think the problem you had was because you were applying for a change of visa status to get the 90 day non immigrant visa entry needed to apply for the extension and they did not really want to accept the application for it.

I suspect you would not have a problem if you went back after getting a non-o visa to apply for an extension with all the required documents and financial proof.

This makes some sense, is the division headquarters located in Bangkok? Or if this is the division head quarters of this local? If the extension goes over this guy's head I would be less worried, but from what I gathered and what he told my wife he made it sound like he was the last stop for any extension in this area.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, MrGone23 said:

This makes some sense, is the division headquarters located in Bangkok?

There are 4 divisions for the 4 regions of the country. Only division 3 for the central region is located in Bangkok.

Division 4 for the Northeast is in Khon Kaen, 5 is for the north is in Chiang Mai, 6 for the South is in Hat Yai.

As I wrote the local office can only refuse to accept the application and that can only be done if a person does not qualify for the extension or is lacking the required supporting documents or financial proof to apply for it.

[MrGone23]

20 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There are 4 divisions for the 4 regions of the country. Only division 3 for the central region is located in Bangkok.

Division 4 for the Northeast is in Khon Kaen, 5 is for the north is in Chiang Mai, 6 for the South is in Hat Yai.

As I wrote the local office can only refuse to accept the application and that can only be done if a person does not qualify for the extension or is lacking the required supporting documents or financial proof to apply for it.

Thank you so much for all of this info, So just to get my head around all of this though please humor me here. I would go to Loas, get my Type-O and then at 60 days into that Type-O I would get together all of my documents needed for an extension based on marriage and take it to this office, and then they would have to send it to the division headquarters in Bangkok and it would not go through this guy at all? Does the upcoming change on the 15th of February affect this at all? Or are the rules still going to be the same? I just have this strange feeling in my gut that going to Laos and getting the type-O will not be the end of this. Heh

[JackThompson]

At many offices, they charge a big corruption-fee to do a Non-O 90-day stamp.  I ran into the same thing in Jomtien.  Others report similar at other offices. 

 

The reason he told your wife the "must go to USA" bit, is he doesn't want you to go to Laos for the Non-O Visa, because that would be a relatively inexpensive way to avoid paying off his dirty corruption money.   As others have pointed out, there is no "criminal check" involved in a Non-O Visa in the USA based on marriage to a Thai - so his entire story is a Big Lie.

 

You are dealing with one of the "bad apples" - of which there are many in Immigration, running various entry-points and local-offices around the country.  They are easy to spot, because they lie about the laws/rules they swore to uphold.  They also frequently use an anti-Farang bias, as cover for their unmitigated criminal-greed. 

 

At other offices and entry-points, decent and law-abiding IOs rule.  While upon entering the country, one can avoid the criminal/corrupt run entry points, foreigners are forced to go to the office that serves the area where we live for extensions-of-stay. 

 

Because the family-desk where I lived was corrupt (as was the Non-O "conversion" desk), I ended up going out for a "1-Year Non-O Multiple Entry" from Savannahket Laos.  This allowed me to avoid dealing with a hopelessly-corrupt immigration office, as my Visa is issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (not immigration).  This Visa only provides 90-days stay per entry, but I can choose where I make that "out/in" - so can avoid the criminal-run entry-points, where the actual laws on-the-books may not apply.

 

For you, living near Bangkok, the closest "out/in" point is probably Kanchaburi (others who live there can advise).  We have no reports of them making problems for those doing "out/in" trips on Multiple-Entry Non-O Visas.

 

You may want to try your office once more with an entry from a Non-O Visa - but tell your wife to walk out the minute anyone there is rude to her.  Do NOT let them abuse her, to get to you - a common tactic at these criminal-run offices.  Possibly, have her bring her most street-wise and protective male relative along to accompany her for any "Thais only" conversations.  I would never let that criminal be alone with her, again.

[Tanoshi]

40 minutes ago, MrGone23 said:

This makes some sense, is the division headquarters located in Bangkok? Or if this is the division head quarters of this local? If the extension goes over this guy's head I would be less worried, but from what I gathered and what he told my wife he made it sound like he was the last stop for any extension in this area.

If your some 3 hours north of Bangkok, your local office at a guess would be Lopburi or Nakhon Sawan, neither of which make the final decision on a marriage extension application, they are just the starting point.

[MrGone23]

Thank you guys so much, it's good to talk with some folks who have experience with this as I am kind of by my self over here.

I will relay all of this info to my wife this evening and we will go from there. 

[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, MrGone23 said:

Thank you so much for all of this info, So just to get my head around all of this though please humor me here. I would go to Loas, get my Type-O and then at 60 days into that Type-O I would get together all of my documents needed for an extension based on marriage and take it to this office, and then they would have to send it to the division headquarters in Bangkok

Correct.

What method would you use as proof of income, 400K deposited in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to the date of application, or, 40K per month deposited in a Thai bank account, which under the new revised order for income based applications could mean you need to prove these deposit from Jan 2019 up to the date of your application.

[Tanoshi]

As an aside, if you decided to visit Lao and obtain a ME Non Imm O Visa based on marriage, that Visa can allow you to stay for a total of 17 months, with only 3 border runs, before renewing the Visa.

Each 90 day entry can be extended at your local IO by 60 days to visit a Thai wife (1,900 baht), so first border run could be up to 150 days. If you exit/re-enter just before the 'enter before' date on the Visa, you'll be granted another 90 days beyond the Visas expiry and can extend that by 60 days, totalling almost 17 months.

 

You could within the last 30 days of any of the above 90 day entries apply for an annual extension if you so wish.

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, MrGone23 said:

Thank you so much for all of this info, So just to get my head around all of this though please humor me here. I would go to Loas, get my Type-O and then at 60 days into that Type-O I would get together all of my documents needed for an extension based on marriage and take it to this office, and then they would have to send it to the division headquarters in Bangkok and it would not go through this guy at all? Does the upcoming change on the 15th of February affect this at all? Or are the rules still going to be the same? I just have this strange feeling in my gut that going to Laos and getting the type-O will not be the end of this. Heh

They would need to accept the application and collect the 1900 baht fee for the application. They could still refuse to accept the application if you do not have everything required.

I am not aware of any planned changes on February 15th.

I really do think having the non-o visa will change their attitude entirely. Many office do not want to accept the visa application you were trying to do since it requires the same paperwork and process twice. The visa application would of been sent to the division HQ for approval also.

[JackThompson]

27 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

If your some 3 hours north of Bangkok, your local office at a guess would be Lopburi or Nakhon Sawan, neither of which make the final decision on a marriage extension application, they are just the starting point.

Not the final-say - but if they reject the application, it will never get to the next step.  That the stage where I got blocked (the 2nd time, after the Non-O-Stamp block was avoided with a single-entry Non-O Visa).

 

11 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Each 90 day entry can be extended at your local IO by 60 days to visit a Thai wife (1,900 baht), so first border run could be up to 150 days.

This may or may not be blocked at that office, given the nature of the director of the office.  Jomtien makes even 60-day extensions very difficult for anyone who rents their abode (landlord-docs runaround - same requirements as for a 1-year extension).

[MrGone23]

4 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Not the final-say - but if they reject the application, it will never get to the next step.  That the stage where I got blocked (the 2nd time, after the Non-O-Stamp block was avoided with a single-entry Non-O Visa).

So what did you end up doing?

[MrGone23]

43 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Correct.

What method would you use as proof of income, 400K deposited in a Thai bank for 2 months prior to the date of application, or, 40K per month deposited in a Thai bank account, which under the new revised order for income based applications could mean you need to prove these deposit from Jan 2019 up to the date of your application.

I opened a bank account here and put the 400k baht into it....I also think that if he is indeed after money him seeing the bank account, only further hurt my chances. We both knew we would run into issues in trying to be together but this one feels like a very tall wall to climb. I am not too keen on paying this guy at all cause I feel like he would only ask for more money in the future as well.... I am hoping to give them the benefit of the doubt though I will get a type-O from Laos and then try again.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, MrGone23 said:

So what did you end up doing?

I got a "1-year Multiple-Entry Non-O Visa based on marriage to a Thai" from the Thai Consulate in Savannakhet, Laos.  I use friendly land-borders, so no problems leaving and returning with an additional 90-day permitted-stay.

 

But, in your case - to avoid having to do border-runs and/or multiple 60-day extensions - I would get a Non-O Visa (single entry 2000 Baht, multiple-entry/1-year 5000 Baht), and try once more to get a 1-year extension of stay based on marriage at that office. 

They will likely want a "witness" to do the extension, anyway - so I suggest to chose the most intimidating / high-ranking Thai who can attest your marriage is legit, and also assist your wife with any "negotiations."  Most Thai ladies are not well-suited to this sort of thing (mine isn't - this "non-aggressive" nature is often one reason we love them), so a bad-IO can take advantage of this - we have to to protect them from being bullied.

 

50 minutes ago, MrGone23 said:

We both knew we would run into issues in trying to be together

Most Thais will consider her lucky.  It's just a small clique who have "issues" about it.

[MrGone23]

9 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I got a "1-year Multiple-Entry Non-O Visa based on marriage to a Thai" from the Thai Consulate in Savannakhet, Laos.  I use friendly land-borders, so no problems leaving and returning with an additional 90-day permitted-stay.

 

But, in your case - to avoid having to do border-runs and/or multiple 60-day extensions - I would get a Non-O Visa (single entry 2000 Baht, multiple-entry/1-year 5000 Baht), and try once more to get a 1-year extension of stay based on marriage at that office. 

They will likely want a "witness" to do the extension, anyway - so I suggest to chose the most intimidating / high-ranking Thai who can attest your marriage is legit, and also assist your wife with any "negotiations."  Most Thai ladies are not well-suited to this sort of thing (mine isn't - this "non-aggressive" nature is often one reason we love them), so a bad-IO can take advantage of this - we have to to protect them from being bullied.

 

Most Thais will consider her lucky.  It's just a small clique who have "issues" about it.

Good advice! Thank you very much at to everyone else as well, I will update a post in a few months and see what happens.