Thai immigration to show leniency to foreigners applying for retirement & marriage extensions

[jesimps]

5 hours ago, stephenterry said:

Bangkok bank show my transfers coming in from TransferWise as FTT (Foreign Transfer Transaction).

Yes but one of my last three transfers using TW was sent via TMB. Surely if I was with BB this would show up as a domestic transfer.

[ginjag]

9 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

If your income is under 65k, prepare to borrow some to reach 800k.

Looks that way,  20 thousand English pounds,    if you only have 20-30k English pension, you are in Something street,  and if you got 800k how can you withdraw it---or transfer it back if you left  ??

OR throw in the towel and get a 5 year Elite card. for 500k....Or do we risk an agent to make up the 300k as I have 500k here.

OR leave after 14 years living here,   bought many new cars  over that time.......how much a good ex pat you have been, they want Quality ex pats only.    But they put up with mostly non quality Chinese here that do not spend into the local Tesco, food markets, cars, motor bikes,  leases, electric, water bills and buying petrol over a long period.  We are looked on very badly............big problem also if we have pets here and we are sort of given notice,  they are family, very worrying.

[Mark mark]

6 minutes ago, Mark mark said:

Does it have to be 12, Monthly payments (Eg a Pension) (Possibly not something that many people will have ?) .... or can it still be the 800,000 Bart in the bank for 3 mths, before the Visa Extension, as I was just told in my local Immigration office ? 

 

Mark mark

Yes, I suppose I should not be Lazy,and just see what is written on their web site it self, the 800,000 in the bank for 3 mths before the application, is still probably there, and will be the way that I will be doing it. This letter above is re Income I am guessing, like the replacement system, of the letter of Income affidavit previously provided by the embassies. The 800,000 bart in the bank option seems to still be standing, ....  according to my Immigration People any way. ... Like I asked them,and they told me "Yes it has to be there 3 mths before the application" ... Which will do me, until they tell me different, ...

[Dan123]

23 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

How do you say mutatis mutandis in Thai?

 like this  !!

 

https://translate.google.com.au/#view=home&op=translate&sl=auto&tl=th&text=mutatis%20mutandis

[JLCrab]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

No, it's the ones running the huge agent-immigration money-pipeline - now boosted heavily by this move of the income-based goalposts - who are the obvious scammers, not your fellow expats. 

 

As Jack says (with apologies to Benjamin Franklin):

 

The only sure things in life are death, taxes, and agents.

[Humpy]

So if you have the Baht 800,000 then these monthly income proofs are not required ?!

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, Humpy said:

So if you have the Baht 800,000 then these monthly income proofs are not required ?!

I believe so. 

[NightSky]

According to Google dictionary the use of the word 'leniency' would imply that first some crime was committed or some wrong-doing would it not!

 

le·nien·cy

/ˈlēnēənsē/

noun

 

1. the fact or quality of being more merciful or tolerant than expected; clemency.

   "the court could show leniency"

   synonyms:

   mercifulness, mercy, clemency, lenity, forgiveness; More

[sambum]

23 hours ago, Vacuum said:

This is all good, but what about the meaningless 90 day reports?

Different issue altogether!

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Petchou said:

Some ambassies still provide affidavits letters confirming financial resources for their citizens such Canada.  Does it mean, a letter still be accepted as proof of resources or not?

Any embassy that is still producing income letters, these letters are accepted by immigration as proof, just like they always were.

 

For the 4 embassies that no longer issue any form of income certification, then no, since how can you submit a letter that no longer exists?

Edited January 23, 2019 by NanLaew

[Petchou]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes it will be accepted. See this topic that has a translation of the amendment.

 

Very good news.  At least it allows to avoid Thai Banks to get Chunk of our money charging fees and giving very bad exchange rates.   Thanks for your reply.

[farangx]

On 1/22/2019 at 8:38 AM, Nyezhov said:

How do you say mutatis mutandis in Thai?

You drop the ass .... moo ta tee moo tan dee.

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by farangx

[sambum]

9 minutes ago, Petchou said:

Very good news.  At least it allows to avoid Thai Banks to get Chunk of our money charging fees and giving very bad exchange rates.   Thanks for your reply.

As long as you are one of the lucky ones whose Embassy is still issuing letters!

 

If your Embassy no longer issues a "Proof of Income" letter and if your pension is insufficient to cover the 40,000 baht a month requirement (I would suspect that would mean a lot of people), the way I read it is that the 40,000 baht a month (or possibly the difference between your pension and 40,000 baht - this is not clear) has to be paid into a Thai bank account.

 

[sambum]

1 hour ago, Humpy said:

So if you have the Baht 800,000 then these monthly income proofs are not required ?!

Correct - it is "either" "or".

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

Yes but one of my last three transfers using TW was sent via TMB. Surely if I was with BB this would show up as a domestic transfer.

Yes, likely a SMART transfer as mine was.

[shy coconut]

On 1/22/2019 at 8:36 AM, mtls2005 said:

Sounds reasonable, and seems like what they mentioned early on for the transition period of 2019? One assumes that monthly foreign transfers, exceeding the minimus, beginning in January 2019 and continuing through to the date of application, be it June, July. August, September, October, November or December will suffice? (No clue what happens for those applying Feb-May though, will 2 ~ 5 months be sufficient?

 

Now how many IO's understand the legal term "mutatis mutandis" remains to be seen

 

Why would an immigration officer need to be knowledgeable about business law and

obscure Latin phrases that are only uttered by pompous swots wearing ridiculous

powdered wigs in dusty courtrooms?

[HalfLight]

5 hours ago, robsamui said:

This glamour-boy, Silly Joke, will go down in Thai-farang legend as the hot-shot who was so busy watching the back door for the overstayers that he totally missed the steady stream of expats leaving the country via the front door.

 

Oh he's probably aware alright, he just doesn't give a sh|t. Too stupid to see where that might lead, besides, they've always got the Chinese and I hope that brings them much joy.

 

But I don't think it will.

 

 

[jesimps]

6 hours ago, Wake Up said:

This is the same thing my friend at CW said a few weeks ago. Too many drama queens here. Thailand does not want to get rid of people who can afford to live here. Give the constant bitching a break. It helps no one and accomplishes nothing. ????

I can afford to live here, but it's getting very difficult to prove it to the Thais. By the way, you members of the rosey specs/smug gits brigade are doing a great job of supporting and encouraging TI, which of course has always been the case.

[bmore99]

Any embassy that is still producing income letters, these letters are accepted by immigration as proof, just like they always were.
 
For the 4 embassies that no longer issue any form of income certification, then no, since how can you submit a letter that no longer exists?

I can confirm, got my extension today based on income letter from my embassy at immigration Khon Kaen. Nothing changed, same as always.

All the news is confusing, but the changes only apply to those who can't get the embassy letter (which I guess is the majority of the forum members), they have now the new option of monthly transfers. The "and/or money in the bank" option is also still applicable.

Sent from my SM-A730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[jesimps]

5 hours ago, rott said:

That WAS the system, you were not scamming it.

True, but it doesn't fit with his agenda that all farang (except himself) are lying, scheming freeloaders who're attempting to get one over on TI so that they can stay here illegally.

[jesimps]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Yes, and then 1 or 2 months more, after you apply, during the "under consideration" period (sometimes the "consideration" takes more than a month, per reports). 

 

This back-door "after application" additional seasoning trick / "new unpublished rule" is not reported as being utilized against us at all offices yet, but is now reported at Chang Wattana - the main office -  so may be utilized to discourage honest, in-person applications everywhere, soon.

 

They already required 2 months seasoning when you submitted the application, as per the written rules.  This is an "extra month" (or sometimes two) they are taking on, to nail those who need that money to support their Thai families here. 

 

No, it's the ones running the huge agent-immigration money-pipeline - now boosted heavily by this move of the income-based goalposts - who are the obvious scammers, not your fellow expats. 

 

We do everything they ask (published), yet they add "new unpublished requirements" - like this "extra month of seasoning," as just the latest example.  Legs not showing in one of your "prove your marriage" pictures? - or your "witness" not in the "bedroom shot"?  Go away! (with the not so subtle-message, "... and pay an agent, so you don't have to do any of this pointless stuff").

 

To spite this activity literally in our faces, some manage to blame expats - rather than the blatant actions of a corrupt den of thieves - for what is being done to us.  Never mind that we are helping Thailand and Thai families with our years of foreign-capital spending/investment - without even so much as the assurance we can live here and be with our families beyond a year. 

 

Marriage-based apps, in particular, are a nightmare at many offices.  Now, at Bangkok CW Immigration no less, they have Moved The Goalposts AGAIN - making the seasoning-period 3 months, instead of the published requirement of 2 months (though sometimes they aren't done with consideration after 30-days, so force the "seasoning" to 4 months). 

 

Is this unpublished "extra seasoning" change because of "abuse"?  It appears not, because meanwhile, if one uses their agent-buddy for an "extra fee" of 10x or so the official-cost, one Doesn't Need Any Seasoning At All.  They obviously do not care a whit about "abuse" - only that they get to profit from abuse, by twisting, spinning, and outright-breaking the rules to do it. 

 

It could not be more clear that this change is just another way to force people into their agent-money system - extorting the most financially vulnerable, and emotionally-invested (Thai family) where they have maximum (heartless) leverage.

As always, you manage to hit the nail on the head. Cue the rosey specs mob.

[jesimps]

5 hours ago, farangx said:

Their rules are theirs to change, not for you to make them.

 

.....and don't we know it! Where did you earn your degree in stating the obvious?

[Petchou]

2 hours ago, sambum said:

As long as you are one of the lucky ones whose Embassy is still issuing letters!

 

If your Embassy no longer issues a "Proof of Income" letter and if your pension is insufficient to cover the 40,000 baht a month requirement (I would suspect that would mean a lot of people), the way I read it is that the 40,000 baht a month (or possibly the difference between your pension and 40,000 baht - this is not clear) has to be paid into a Thai bank account.

 

I am not that much concerned with the amount of money to be given the retirement visa.  It's more dealing with Banks here instead of making many safe and invested back home.  And it's quite straightforward to get an affidavit from my ambassador with official taxes documents and my pension statement.  Happy they didn't change this.

[jesimps]

5 hours ago, Tchooptip said:

The negative comments, on the other hand, follow their course as usual

So you see nothing wrong in the ambiguity of all this? People with Thai families going to TI not knowing if their evidence is going to stand up, too late to do anything about it if it doesn't. Pray tell us the answer to TW transfer evidence, or money in bank plus income method etc etc. With fellow farang like you, who needs the continually unhelpful TI.

[jesimps]

5 hours ago, SuperTed said:

This result seems quite reasonable. And well timed. For all the whinging, it could be worse. 

Watch this space for compulsory medical insurance!

 

[Jingthing]

So you see nothing wrong in the ambiguity of all this? People with Thai families going to TI not knowing if their evidence is going to stand up, too late to do anything about it if it doesn't. Pray tell us the answer to TW transfer evidence, or money in bank plus income method etc etc. With fellow farang like you, who needs the continually unhelpful TI.

It's the Thai expat version of Stockholm syndrome all over again.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[JLCrab]

7 minutes ago, jesimps said:

6 hours ago, SuperTed said:

This result seems quite reasonable. And well timed. For all the whinging, it could be worse. 

Watch this space for compulsory medical insurance!

Already have it. What else ya got?

[scubascuba3]

Watch this space for compulsory medical insurance!
 

If it comes in it will be a mistake, many people will leave. If they offered a cash in the bank option that would be a fair alternative. Not all of us want to subsidise the obese unhealthy lot

[Jingthing]

Watch this space for compulsory medical insurance!
 

Well it's being discussed for OA visas but not extensions as yet.

It wouldn't be so bad if they offer a buy in to a government plan as Ecuador does or even an exemption for showing a rejected insurance application as does Malaysia.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[elgenon]

It doesn't mention the 800,000 option. Is that still viable?