wintermute Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 It's really so bad of you to judge over the victims just because of thoughts you have of Russians in your head.Lot of Russians come to Thailand, many girls of different age. Desire to make a trip to exotic country doesn't make them prostitutes. And even if Russians live here, it doesn't mean they do something criminal to afford it. We can work and earn the money in the legal way. Our girls pretty, young and wear some revealing clothes, but 99,9% of them aren't prostitues in Pattaya. Or even bigger procentage. They are good, kind-hearted, intelligent. The only reason they are different and could seem to have weird habits is different culture. Don't be so stupid and try to broad you mind, at least a little bit. It's just annoying, you know. And not only here. I happened to have a talk with some man in Bangkok hotel - he started it. Then he knew where I am from, he asked me if I was a prostitute. It's such an offence! Get real, you are living in a dream world here, your statistics are all wrong. 99.9%? You obviously never heard the expression, Pattaya is PatPong on steroids. Though you might find this painful, it is the general perception. Pattaya loses out on a lot of "family" touristes because of that reputation. Also it depends what time you work and where, doesn't it? One thing you say is true though and I quote "Our girls pretty, young and wear some revealing clothes..." and in general most Thai women are "good, kind-hearted, intelligent." as for feeling offended, I know what it feels like because the same thing has happened to me on several occassions and I am a hetro man! Don't try to argue with them. On every page of this topic the is an idiot start shouting "hookers" and "Russian mafia". There is nothing to do with this - many westerners in Pattaya are gobblers, bum-######ers and other shit. Just mental problem with their distorted logics. They are keen to suspect prostites in Russian girls they did not know, and all their experience about Russians is based on primitive Holywood movies. I know many Russians in Pattaya, none of them is prostitute of mafia either. In Russia we say: about dead person talk good, or nothing. Just think about it... Except the investigators have pretty much said that they were most likely prostitutes on Tourist visas. You're like the Russian Thaigoon stop blindly defending everything Russian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amdesign Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 It's really so bad of you to judge over the victims just because of thoughts you have of Russians in your head.Lot of Russians come to Thailand, many girls of different age. Desire to make a trip to exotic country doesn't make them prostitutes. And even if Russians live here, it doesn't mean they do something criminal to afford it. We can work and earn the money in the legal way. Our girls pretty, young and wear some revealing clothes, but 99,9% of them aren't prostitues in Pattaya. Or even bigger procentage. They are good, kind-hearted, intelligent. The only reason they are different and could seem to have weird habits is different culture. Don't be so stupid and try to broad you mind, at least a little bit. It's just annoying, you know. And not only here. I happened to have a talk with some man in Bangkok hotel - he started it. Then he knew where I am from, he asked me if I was a prostitute. It's such an offence! Get real, you are living in a dream world here, your statistics are all wrong. 99.9%? You obviously never heard the expression, Pattaya is PatPong on steroids. Though you might find this painful, it is the general perception. Pattaya loses out on a lot of "family" touristes because of that reputation. Also it depends what time you work and where, doesn't it? One thing you say is true though and I quote "Our girls pretty, young and wear some revealing clothes..." and in general most Thai women are "good, kind-hearted, intelligent." as for feeling offended, I know what it feels like because the same thing has happened to me on several occassions and I am a hetro man! Don't try to argue with them. On every page of this topic the is an idiot start shouting "hookers" and "Russian mafia". There is nothing to do with this - many westerners in Pattaya are gobblers, bum-######ers and other shit. Just mental problem with their distorted logics. They are keen to suspect prostites in Russian girls they did not know, and all their experience about Russians is based on primitive Holywood movies. I know many Russians in Pattaya, none of them is prostitute of mafia either. In Russia we say: about dead person talk good, or nothing. Just think about it... Except the investigators have pretty much said that they were most likely prostitutes on Tourist visas. You're like the Russian Thaigoon stop blindly defending everything Russian. List me the FACTS that they were prostitutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valehree Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Probably pimp killing. sure they were just tourists? That was my first thought too If it involves violence and Russians then it's usually not random at all. I bet there's a lot more to this. ================================================================ Yeap; Wintermute; I believe you are correct; of course there's more to this story that what we've heard sofar. I've lived and worked in Pattaya for almost 15 years now and I can tell you that there have been some pretty incredible encounters involving Russian citizens here. As a rule; it is mostly kept "between Russians" and I would be surprised if this will not turn-out to fall into that same catagory. Likely scenario could be: two Russian hookers (and there are litterally hundreds of them here !?) no longer desoire to pay-off their Russian pimps; these guys are not the pick-nick type and will go through extreme lengths to "save face" with regards to the rest of their "flock" . . . . tatsteless business, no kidding ! VERY classy guys ..... first thing you do is cast doubt on the 2 victims! Not classy indeed... but life in Russia when you are young, penniless and cute is far from being classy I'm afraid Fact is, most russian-Prada-clad-gals one encounters outside of Motherland are, if not hookers, at least girlfriends of mafia-turned-oil businessmen types. Ask any 5* hotel managers around the world, they'll tell you how their premises are rented out by those guys, who gets a bunch of girls to fly from russia for week-long feasts of sex, drugs & booze.. So 2 weeks in Pattaya, why not.. This said, whether these 2 women were part of the circus or not, they sure did not deserve to die. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falux2 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Well, I have quite an idea. Why don't we all go to the officials and give a DNS sample and fingerprints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amdesign Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 It is easy to throw mud and accusations into girls who can not reply for themselves... Come on, who is next brave man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmart Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 No news updates regarding this case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermute Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 List me the FACTS that they were prostitutes. I'm going by what's quoted in the Bangkok Post. It seems you're trying every which way to spin this as angelic female Russian tourists get murdered by deviant Thai scum. Your perspectives are..interesting to say the least. Two Russian women killed in Pattaya(BangkokPost.com, dpa) Two Russian female tourists were shot and killed in a popular tourist beach resort about 100 kilometres south-east of Bangkok early Saturday, police said. The 30- and 25-year-old women were shot by an unidentified gunman on a beach in Jomtien which is just south of the popular tourist resort town Pattaya at around 5 a.m. Witnesses said they heard gun shots, then saw a Thai man flee the area on a motorcycle. The two women, who were staying in a nearby resort, were found dead next to beach chairs on the beach, police said. Police found an empty Coca-Cola can, an almost empty alcoholic beverage, female shoes and a mobile phone at the scene. Police initially suspected that the women, who checked in at the Dragon Beach Resort Hotel last Friday and planned to check out early March, were killed because of some conflict of interest in the sex business. But officers say a local beach chair concessionaire is a possible suspect, because witnesses saw the Russian tourists quarreling with him earlier. The press attache of the Russian Embassy in Thailand, Alexey Bulkin, confirmed Saturday the murder of two Russian women, who arrived at the Dragon Beach Resort hotel on February 16, and said an embassy official had been sent to the resort to monitor the ongoing police investigation. Pattaya and Jomtien to its south are popular beach towns that have seen an increased number of Russian tourists in recent years. There's another article posted in this thread that mentions that the investigation team has said that they were most likely sex tourists on visas. The reason why they came to this conclusion is because quite a lot of the "working" russian girls in the usual nightlife spots knew them and are being questioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Bear Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 It seems to me that many members feel the need to blame someone so, instead of blaming the killer, they blame the victims, or they blame all "cowardly Thai men" or all Thai people or all Russians. The only person to blame for this murder is the man who pulled the trigger. And the person who sold him the gun and ammunition. Strict gun control reduces the number of deaths due to violent crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Bear Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 No news updates regarding this case? It made BBC News this morning, but I haven't checked their web-site yet/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amdesign Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 List me the FACTS that they were prostitutes. I'm going by what's quoted in the Bangkok Post. It seems you're trying every which way to spin this as angelic female Russian tourists get murdered by deviant Thai scum. Your perspectives are..interesting to say the least. Two Russian women killed in Pattaya(BangkokPost.com, dpa) Two Russian female tourists were shot and killed in a popular tourist beach resort about 100 kilometres south-east of Bangkok early Saturday, police said. The 30- and 25-year-old women were shot by an unidentified gunman on a beach in Jomtien which is just south of the popular tourist resort town Pattaya at around 5 a.m. Witnesses said they heard gun shots, then saw a Thai man flee the area on a motorcycle. The two women, who were staying in a nearby resort, were found dead next to beach chairs on the beach, police said. Police found an empty Coca-Cola can, an almost empty alcoholic beverage, female shoes and a mobile phone at the scene. Police initially suspected that the women, who checked in at the Dragon Beach Resort Hotel last Friday and planned to check out early March, were killed because of some conflict of interest in the sex business. But officers say a local beach chair concessionaire is a possible suspect, because witnesses saw the Russian tourists quarreling with him earlier. The press attache of the Russian Embassy in Thailand, Alexey Bulkin, confirmed Saturday the murder of two Russian women, who arrived at the Dragon Beach Resort hotel on February 16, and said an embassy official had been sent to the resort to monitor the ongoing police investigation. Pattaya and Jomtien to its south are popular beach towns that have seen an increased number of Russian tourists in recent years. There's another article posted in this thread that mentions that the investigation team has said that they were most likely sex tourists on visas. The reason why they came to this conclusion is because quite a lot of the "working" russian girls in the usual nightlife spots knew them and are being questioned. This is not official info, just an article written by another bum-######er in newspaper where he works between visiting the bars... Just stop shouting about mafia unless offical results of invertigations is published. You have not enough info to judge about girls, but so fast with accusations. For me as I know Russians is very clear that: - Stay for two weeks in beachfront hotel is not the way to be involved in sex industry. Specially considering from what wealthy part of Russia they come from. - Phones with lot of local numbers - possible, Russian tour guides rent SIM-cards to tourists and collect them prior to departure. This is known service provided by Russian tourist companies, so numbers could accumulate from many SIM users. - There is nothing criminal in sitting on the beach and drinking, specially on February 23 that is big holiday in Russia. - If they were sex workers, they for sure would be busy at nights. But they spent a lot of time on this beach - so they just had holiday in tropical paradise that is very pleasant to compare with cold Siberia where they come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couthy Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 It is of no importance if they were prostitutes or not. Somebody walked up and shot them. Period. In the chest area, not the arm as a previous poster mentioned. (Rounds do travel through body tissue). By the lack of struggle or escape or surprise the shooter was known to them. Terribly sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amdesign Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 2 All: Just try to judge this case without prejudice to Russians. Average Russian is much more honest and intelligent than avarage farang in Pattaya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermute Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 2 All:Just try to judge this case without prejudice to Russians. Average Russian is much more honest and intelligent than avarage farang in Pattaya. Wait..you're asking us not to judge Russians but you're already casting judgement on the intelligence of the "average farang" in Pattaya? Haha, classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zanzibar Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 A set up 2 meet 2 hookers at 5 am in more likely and a paid assasination is almost a certainty. I hope the police can solve this one. The Thai police? Please. This is just another reason why Sihanoukville in Cambodia will take a large % of the Pattaya tourist dollar in the coming years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lingyai Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 21 pages and what more do we know about this case? Almost nothing. My thoughts go out to the women's families. I hope the gumman and (and if there are) others involved get caught and recieve life in a Thai prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermute Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 A set up 2 meet 2 hookers at 5 am in more likely and a paid assasination is almost a certainty. I hope the police can solve this one. The Thai police? Please. The Thai police are reliable for one thing and one thing only..collecting tea money for the big boss. I bet there are even some days when they screw that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTang Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 "sbk @ 2007-02-24 21:28:21 It seems to me that many members feel the need to blame someone so, instead of blaming the killer, they blame the victims, or they blame all "cowardly Thai men" or all Thai people or all Russians. The only person to blame for this murder is the man who pulled the trigger." That's not true if it turns out to be a professional hit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falux2 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Talking about falangs in Pattaya? The last time I went there, I saw thousands of drunken brits, germans and a few other nationalities. All over 50 and with no TShirt. Honestly? Disgusting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amdesign Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 2 All:Just try to judge this case without prejudice to Russians. Average Russian is much more honest and intelligent than avarage farang in Pattaya. Wait..you're asking us not to judge Russians but you're already casting judgement on the intelligence of the "average farang" in Pattaya? Haha, classic. I ask to judge withouth prejudice to Russian nationality and take into consideration only pure FACTS. Especially if You are trying to judge the community You do not understand. For Pattaya farangs - we are all farangs here (me also) and know each other. Many fraudsters, criminals, 'sex tourists', 'bar businessmen' and others come and settle here. Or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pakboong Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I am a bit curious how one of these girls, who were both facing forward sitting in beach chairs, was shot in the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moskito Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Well..wait a second.I saw the photo of the dead girl's on the front page of today's (Sunday's) Thai Rath (the one with the green and black banner if don't know the difference), and it looks like a complete stage-job. One has her head on the other's shoulder. Like she was napping. The other has her head back with what appears to be an abdomen injury (this part is blurred-out). Both are very pretty like they are asleep and a single glass and small bottle of Mekong and a mobile phone is on the little square beach table in front of them. I've edited and added this line to make my point a bit clearer. I've seen people really dead from violence..and it doesn't look like that. Shooting someone in the guts does not mean an instant neat death-throw-your-head-back-and-let the -smoke-fall from your-hand in your last breath kind of tv nonesense. It's gross and very messy and a slow death. That's way way to neat for a double killing. Both sitting in the chair head on each other's shoulder what amateur crap is that? What's wrose is the police and the local media eat it all up - no questions as usual. I don't pretent to be doing the job of Kunying Porntip, but to me it looks like they were killed somewhere else and then brought to this staged "crime-scene". As for the shooter..well they take the dead girls there (5am - not a lot of people around - maybe by boat). The Thai guy is waiting (a 9mm--standard police issue by the way..and ya all know how upstanding they are..) fires a couple of shots in the air as he was instructed then runs off to a motorcycle and rides off. Motive? Gang stuff. Could be rape/murder ata different location by important people...only way to know is get a real forensic person like Porntip to do the autopsy. I wouldn't trust the police dr's. I agree with Thaigene2 in his/her assessment of this tragedy... Too much fishiness on too many levels... That table looks way to clean to me to be the actual crime scene... Looks very staged... This was done by pros... Scary, but this was not likely to be an enraged Thai chair tout or even a drunken offended yabaa user... Sounds like a deep sad story with many threads... Who knows these ladies from back home in Russia? What was the long story here? Good luck to getting this mystery sorted out -- maybe it never will be sorted out... Condolences to the friends and families of these ladies... dseawarrior I fully agree with Thaigene, let Pornthip do the autopsy as we know she insn`t corrupt. And I stay to my former entry here, lets calm down a bit, thats all only suspects stuff, not EVIDENCE, nothing is proved yet. like Amdesign said ....In Russia we say: about dead person talk good, or nothing. Just think about it... That has something to do with culture, we got the same in Germany, seems to me not many englishspeaking countries honor their death and I agree with her too what she was saying about most Farangs in Pattaya....dont think with that small one in your trousers, start using your brain sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTang Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 2 All:Just try to judge this case without prejudice to Russians. Average Russian is much more honest and intelligent than avarage farang in Pattaya. No one is making sweeping generalizations that all Russians are bad, on the contrary, most Russians I've met are happy, jovial people and are very easy to get along with. It's just a known fact that the Russian mafia is operating in the area and there are many Russian prostitutes operating in the area as well. The women may not have been prostitutes at all, but this angle can not be ignored when trying to determine who the assailant or assailants were. Not all Italians are members of the Mob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermute Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I am a bit curious how one of these girls, who were both facing forward sitting in beach chairs, was shot in the back. Either they were posed by the incompetent police or they were shot in the back while sitting in the chairs which means there should be bullet holes in the chairs. It shouldn't be hard to figure out exactly where they were. However, knowing how the Thai police operate I bet the tabloids came and they posed the bodies first thing and then sat down to have some som tam and sangsom on the crime scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pakboong Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 2 All:Just try to judge this case without prejudice to Russians. Average Russian is much more honest and intelligent than avarage farang in Pattaya. No one is making sweeping generalizations that all Russians are bad, on the contrary, most Russians I've met are happy, jovial people and are very easy to get along with. It's just a known fact that the Russian mafia is operating in the area and there are many Russian prostitutes operating in the area as well. The women may not have been prostitutes at all, but this angle can not be ignored when trying to determine who the assailant or assailants were. Not all Italians are members of the Mob! Nobody has mentioned that as many as 50% of the Russian Mafia are Jewish to include at least 3 of the major crime bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTang Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I am a bit curious how one of these girls, who were both facing forward sitting in beach chairs, was shot in the back. Look at the top left hand photo in the gallery at http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.p...NEWS=0000002484 The shooter would have used the wooden stairs to approach them from behind. He shot the first woman in the back, then ran around and fired three more shots from the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai-Spy Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I am a bit curious how one of these girls, who were both facing forward sitting in beach chairs, was shot in the back. Only some of the news reports make the claim of the shot to the back. And in each of them, there's no clear attribution as to who is making that claim. It could just be the reporter on the scene making a guess or the police or forensic technician on the scene making a guess. The photos do clearly show what appears to be a bullet wound on her back, and blood on her chest. However, it takes an autopsy to positively confirm which is the entry wound and which is the exit wound; it cannot reliably be done at the crime scene in all cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amdesign Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Russian mafia at Jomtien beach - just ridiculous This 'mafia' stereotype is still too strong in many brains. Many Russians live in Pattaya, they have legal businesses and pay taxes. But still some customers come to us and point that we are Russian mafia Sorry to say, but this post cold-war syngrome multiplied by impressions from primitive American movies. Russian mafia (I say - Russian-speaking) is selling oil in Russia. They have nothing to do here NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryp Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 If you take a look at the Pattaya mail pictures, it looks very clear that the 2 girls were just sitting together having a halt bottle of thai whiskey…possibly the murderer was sitting opposite them. The Dragon is a very Russian hotel; in fact the beach directly opposite is almost only Russian tourists in the day. Security guard said that he had seen them on previous mornings going for a swim at 5 a.m…most prob to sober up from the thai whiskey As for the presumption of being working girls????? Just a couple of pointers 1) almost all Russian (federation) working girls in Thailand are NOT from Moscow 2) they don’t stay in Resort hotels for 2 week package holidays 3) they don’t stay miles out of the working client area 4) does this mean all the Russian girls in Royal garden plaza are “working girls”, and all the Western Men in Royal Garden plaza are “looking for young children”??? 5) was the Russian lady who was shot in her side outside the 7/11 on Jomtien 6 weeks ago also a “working girl” 6) Thai police are brilliant at guess work just look at all the suicides here!!!! Some very stupid people on this forum, and another very sad day for Pattaya R.I.P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolley Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 (edited) It seems that too many people are influenced by Hollywood movies and cheap novels revelling in stereotypes of Russian mafia and hookers etc I still think the more likely scenario is deck chair attendant loses it and kills women over some petty dispute that may or may not have been brewing for some time. Wrong place and wrong time .... Many posters here want it to be a contract killing and mafia related because that would make them feel more secure ......they like to live in denial...random violence and senseless killings are something that scare even the most secure of us because it directley threatens us....Russian mafia, prostitutes contract killing (every stereotype here and of course no evidence at all) all very neat and tidy and of course doesn't threaten us because we are not involved in said activities. Thus we can go back to our cheap beer and girls and believe all is peachy in the land of smiles. The sad fact of life is that most killings are usually the result of stored up anger fueled by resentment and or drugs and alcohol. Further as most people who have been in Thailand for awhile know violence is very close to the surface and it doesn't take much to send someone over the edge in the land of smiles. Edited February 25, 2007 by Tolley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc S. Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 It really surprises me that nobody mentioned 9/11 or area 51 so far.... I know that most of you guys worked sorry work for the CIA, MI 5 6 and 7, Mossad and so far but why not order another Chang beer at your local pub and let the professionals do their work? Cheers Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
Recommended Posts