BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

I thought I was clear that I saw the difference between gross, global income and money transferred into Thailand, and that represented cost increase.

 

It is my position that for MOST people that qualified PREVIOUSLY (i. e. before the embassies discontinued issuing letters)  the increased cost should not be significant.

 

 

Works out around 10-12k baht for me.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

Works out around 10-12k baht for me.

Per day, week, month, year?

 

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Per day, week, month, year?

 

Sorry, year. Also more hassle/less convenient but ho hum, I'll just get on with it. Already have the first 2 65ks in my bank book.

[sumrit]

5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Works out around 10-12k baht for me.

Assuming you transferred exactly the same amount each month before the rule changes as you now do under the new rules there is no increase. Any increase would only occur if you are now sending (and spending) more money.

[sumrit]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Sorry, year. Also more hassle/less convenient but ho hum, I'll just get on with it. Already have the first 2 65ks in my bank book.

Why would your costs increase by 1k baht a month unless you're choosing a more expensive method to send money now?

 

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, sumrit said:

Assuming you transferred exactly the same amount each month before the rule changes as you now do under the new rules there is no increase. Any increase would only occur if you are now sending (and spending) more money.

No. I transferred more money before, and still do by another method. However the other method incurred zero charges. The 10-12k comes from charges for SWIFT xfer and a slightly poorer exchange rate.

[sumrit]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

No. I transferred more money before, and still do by another method. However the other method incurred zero charges. The 10-12k comes from charges for SWIFT xfer and a slightly poorer exchange rate.

3

So who did you use before the Swift bank method? why change?

[Tanoshi]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

No. I transferred more money before, and still do by another method. However the other method incurred zero charges. The 10-12k comes from charges for SWIFT xfer and a slightly poorer exchange rate.

Transferred or withdrew at an ATM with a zero charge card.

[Yellowtail]

51 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It's not just the costs but also the difficulty for certain expats.

 

Over the previous two years the baht has strengthened significantly against the major currencies, especially so for the British who in the uncertainty of any Brexit deal have seen there incomes already drop over 20% during this period.

Leaving that aside.

The difference between a gross income as in Embassy letters of where no tax has been deducted and that doesn't truly affect the income available to you and the nett incomes after tax, now forcibly having to be transferred to a Thai bank is probably around a further 10% decrease in income although it does truly indicate the income available, then the cost of 12 monthly transfers.

 

These factors are significant for many expats, sometimes being the difference between still meeting the requirements or now being just under and having to find an alternative method to stay in Thailand.

Some of these are married men with Thai families, previously settled here for years.

 

If Immigration allowed consideration of assets owned in Thailand obtained by the previous incomes these expats have pored into the economy, they'd qualify x 10 fold, unfortunately they don't.

 

I understand the cost and additional effort required to make monthly transfers and they negative impact it will have on some. 

 

How heavily are MOST pensioners taxed?

 

It is worth  noting that the financial requirement has not changed in twenty years, while the cost of hotel rooms, wages and most everything in Thailand has doubled.

 

From what I've been reading on here, everyone seems to have plenty of money, they just don't want to bring it here.

 

Yes, if someone has no savings and their income is less than 70K a month they are likely going to be in trouble, and will likely have to use an agent. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

14 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Sorry, year. Also more hassle/less convenient but ho hum, I'll just get on with it. Already have the first 2 65ks in my bank book.

Yeah, I figured per year, I would have thought it a little higher than that. 

 

It is (I think) for most more of a pain in the a** than anything. I use my US credit card for everything and never used to have to transfer anything. 

 

If you have the dough, the fixed account drawing interest if the way to go. 

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, sumrit said:

So who did you use before the Swift bank method? why change?

I took my Halifax Clarity CC into my branch, withdrew 70k baht in cash, using the teller's card reader, and deposited it straight into my Bangkok bank account. Zero bank charges at either end. Also, usually got a better rate than Bangkok bank were offering. More convenient as it was transferred instantly and didn't have to be 70k, if I didn't need that much. However, this method doesn't meet the requirement for evidence for TI.

 

I've done SWIFT transfers in the past and they have taken up to 5 days to arrive but I've been pleasantly surprised. First transfer took 3 days. This month I made the xfer on Friday morning and the money was in my account at 08.30 on Saturday morning. Amazing, but still not as convenient as instant.

[Yellowtail]

18 minutes ago, sumrit said:

Assuming you transferred exactly the same amount each month before the rule changes as you now do under the new rules there is no increase. Any increase would only occur if you are now sending (and spending) more money.

 

I very rarely transfered any money before, paid everything with my US credit card. If I had to transfer money each month, it would likley cost about $50 a month and it is an additional PITA.

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I took my Halifax Clarity CC into my branch, withdrew 70k baht in cash, using the teller's card reader, and deposited it straight into my Bangkok bank account. Zero bank charges at either end. Also, usually got a better rate than Bangkok bank were offering. More convenient as it was transferred instantly and didn't have to be 70k, if I didn't need that much. However, this method doesn't meet the requirement for evidence for TI.

 

I've done SWIFT transfers in the past and they have taken up to 5 days to arrive but I've been pleasantly surprised. First transfer took 3 days. This month I made the xfer on Friday morning and the money was in my account at 08.30 on Saturday morning. Amazing, but still not as convenient as instant.

I imagine the compition is forcing swift to speed up.

 

It might turn out the credit card method will work, it's jut not worth the risk at this point. It may be against the letter of the law,  it's not against the spirit....

[Spidey]

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

I understand the cost and additional effort required to make monthly transfers and they negative impact it will have on some. 

 

How heavily are MOST pensioners taxed?

 

It is worth  noting that the financial requirement has not changed in twenty years, while the cost of hotel rooms, wages and most everything in Thailand has doubled.

 

From what I've been reading on here, everyone seems to have plenty of money, they just don't want to bring it here.

 

Yes, if someone has no savings and their income is less than 70K a month they are likely going to be in trouble, and will likely have to use an agent. 

 

 

 

 

 

The financial requirements have always been set on a base of 2000 USD/ month. When the USD/THB was significantly reduced (late 90s, I think) the financial requirement was changed accordingly. AFAIAA 65k baht is still slightly less than $2k. Doubt that there will be any changes in the near future.

 

I don't see any relevance in the rest of your post.

[sumrit]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I took my Halifax Clarity CC into my branch, withdrew 70k baht in cash, using the teller's card reader, and deposited it straight into my Bangkok bank account. Zero bank charges at either end. Also, usually got a better rate than Bangkok bank were offering. More convenient as it was transferred instantly and didn't have to be 70k, if I didn't need that much. However, this method doesn't meet the requirement for evidence for TI.

 

I've done SWIFT transfers in the past and they have taken up to 5 days to arrive but I've been pleasantly surprised. First transfer took 3 days. This month I made the xfer on Friday morning and the money was in my account at 08.30 on Saturday morning. Amazing, but still not as convenient as instant.

OK. understand what you're saying. With your swift transfer (I assume) from the Halifax did you instruct them to send the money in GBP or Thai baht?

 

I know Transferwise charge a small fee but it's more than compensated for because they give a better exchange rate the BKKB.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

I imagine the compition is forcing swift to speed up.

 

It might turn out the credit card method will work, it's jut not worth the risk at this point. It may be against the letter of the law,  it's not against the spirit....

The problem is providing evidence. The receipt from a card reader is thermal paqper which fades quickly. You would be left with blank pieces of paper after 12 months. The bank book/statement just shows "cash deposit"

[Sheryl]

 
I understand the cost and additional effort required to make monthly transfers and they negative impact it will have on some. 
 
How heavily are MOST pensioners taxed?
 
It is worth  noting that the financial requirement has not changed in twenty years, while the cost of hotel rooms, wages and most everything in Thailand has doubled.
 
From what I've been reading on here, everyone seems to have plenty of money, they just don't want to bring it here.
 
Yes, if someone has no savings and their income is less than 70K a month they are likely going to be in trouble, and will likely have to use an agent. 
 
 
 
 
 

Deductions from pensions and similar are not only tax.

Medicare premiums are deducted from US Social Security, for example. This ensures access to health care iin the US and certainly in Thailand's interests that retirees have it but it does reduce the amount they can transfer into the country.

Most people who have the 65k don't have much above that amount and deductions like that are enough to put them under the wire or so close to it that together with fluncuating exchange rates it would be risky to tely on the 65k method.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Yellowtail]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The problem is providing evidence. The receipt from a card reader is thermal paqper which fades quickly. You would be left with blank pieces of paper after 12 months. The bank book/statement just shows "cash deposit"

If you store them carfully and hit them with a blow-dryer and they'll often come back, or just take a picture of them at the bank...

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, sumrit said:

OK. understand what you're saying. With your swift transfer (I assume) from the Halifax did you instruct them to send the money in GBP or Thai baht?

 

I know Transferwise charge a small fee but it's more than compensated for because they give a better exchange rate the BKKB.

First time in THB and I got screwed. This time in GBP and it was reasonable.

 

TransferWise charge a slightly higher fee than my bank but slightly better exchange rate. However I got the same or better exchange rate from my CC.

 

I have a problem trusting TransferWise as, even though I use Bangkok Bank I have seen reports that it isn't guaranteed that all 12 transfers will show up as "international transfer" on your statement. No point in taking the risk. Also you are using a middleman which creates one more step in the transfer. 

 

As you can probably gather, i'm a bit paranoid about the process, at the moment, but I'll get used to it. I also have the option of plan B if needed, 800k in a Thai bank account, but would prefer not to go there.

[Sheryl]

The financial requirements have always been set on a base of 2000 USD/ month. When the USD/THB was significantly reduced (late 90s, I think) the financial requirement was changed accordingly. AFAIAA 65k baht is still slightly less than $2k. Doubt that there will be any changes in the near future.
 
I don't see any relevance in the rest of your post.

65k is over $2k US. And becoming more so.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Deductions from pensions and similar are not only tax.

Medicare premiums are deducted from US Social Security, for example. This ensures access to health care iin the US and certainly in Thailand's interests that retirees have it but it does reduce the amount they can transfer into the country.

Most people who have the 65k don't have much above that amount and deductions like that are enough to put them under the wire or so close to it that together with fluncuating exchange rates it would be risky to tely on the 65k method.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Yes, that's why I think people without saving that are under 70K a month are in trouble. Medicare is what, $35 a month? 

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

If you store them carfully and hit them with a blow-dryer and they'll often come back, or just take a picture of them at the bank...

555, I can see the IO being happy with that! As things stand they are insisting on 12x65k transfers, in your bank book.

[Kadilo]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

First time in THB and I got screwed. This time in GBP and it was reasonable.

 

TransferWise charge a slightly higher fee than my bank but slightly better exchange rate. However I got the same or better exchange rate from my CC.

 

I have a problem trusting TransferWise as, even though I use Bangkok Bank I have seen reports that it isn't guaranteed that all 12 transfers will show up as "international transfer" on your statement. No point in taking the risk. Also you are using a middleman which creates one more step in the transfer. 

 

As you can probably gather, i'm a bit paranoid about the process, at the moment, but I'll get used to it. I also have the option of plan B if needed, 800k in a Thai bank account, but would prefer not to go there.

You sound a mirror of me. 

Peace of mind is what it’s all about for me as opposed to saving a few thousand baht. 

Im just about to send my second swift. First one shows as International transfer with Kasikorn and correct code. Good enough for me. 

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

How heavily are MOST pensioners taxed?

Yes, if someone has no savings and their income is less than 70K a month they are likely going to be in trouble, and will likely have to use an agent. 

Variable taxation levels, but for British expat using your 70K a moth as his income before tax, he'd be taxed about 48,000 baht per annum, or 4,000 baht per month.

 

One of my neighbours is an 84 year old British expat, married to a Thai 37 years, lived in Thailand 23 years.

He always been on a retirement extension using the Embassy Income letter as proof.

His UK state pension is frozen, another company pension receives annual increases.

His total income (gross) last year was 67,000 baht.

 

Now he hasn't the option of the Embassy letter.

Transferring his income (nett) plus transfer costs will bring his available income to less than 65,000 baht per month using Thai bank statements.

He doesn't have internet banking.

He doesn't own a PC.

He thinks the internet is something they put across the middle of a tennis court.

He's always withdrawn his cash using his UK debit card from a Thai ATM.

Over the years he's invested around 8 million baht in land, house and truck.

 

Although he can meet the requirement for a marriage extension, he can't meet the requirement to transfer it into a Thai bank.

His other option is a Non Imm O ME Visa from Savannakhet, but due to age and walking difficulties he can't make the journeys.

His Thai family have offered to put the 400K in his Thai bank account for the required two months when it's required, but due to pride, stubbornness, and pure frustration he's refused and states he merely go into overstay and let Immigration deal with the aftermath of his care. He can't fly anymore due to his conditions, so returning him to Blighty wouldn't be an option.

 

There must be more who now find themselves in this predicament.

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

65k is over $2k US. And becoming more so.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

$2084 by my calculations. Slightly worrying, I suppose. We'll all pray for a healthy Dollar.

 

I blame Trump! 555

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Variable taxation levels, but for British expat using your 70K a moth as his income before tax, he'd be taxed about 48,000 baht per annum, or 4,000 baht per month.

 

One of my neighbours is an 84 year old British expat, married to a Thai 37 years, lived in Thailand 23 years.

He always been on a retirement extension using the Embassy Income letter as proof.

His UK state pension is frozen, another company pension receives annual increases.

His total income (gross) last year was 67,000 baht.

 

Now he hasn't the option of the Embassy letter.

Transferring his income (nett) plus transfer costs will bring his available income to less than 65,000 baht per month using Thai bank statements.

He doesn't have internet banking.

He doesn't own a PC.

He thinks the internet is something they put across the middle of a tennis court.

He's always withdrawn his cash using his UK debit card from a Thai ATM.

Over the years he's invested around 8 million baht in land, house and truck.

 

Although he can meet the requirement for a marriage extension, he can't meet the requirement to transfer it into a Thai bank.

His other option is a Non Imm O ME Visa from Savannakhet, but due to age and walking difficulties he can't make the journeys.

His Thai family have offered to put the 400K in his Thai bank account for the required two months when it's required, but due to pride, stubbornness, and pure frustration he's refused and states he merely go into overstay and let Immigration deal with the aftermath of his care. He can't fly anymore due to his conditions, so returning him to Blighty wouldn't be an option.

 

There must be more who now find themselves in this predicament.

Surely he only needs to transfer 40k baht/month for a marriage visa. Or am I missing something?

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Surely he only needs to transfer 40k baht/month for a marriage visa. Or am I missing something?

The lack of a PC, no internet and most importantly no online banking facility with his UK bank.

[steve73]

Just how much more expensive is it for a British retiree to satisfy the new income rules?

 

This time last year, with a THB/GBP rate of around 44, a retiree would have needed to SHOW a minimum income of 17,727 GBP (gross).  He could have brought as much of it into Thailand as he wanted to spend, by whatever means he wanted, (SWIFT, Transferwise, UK Credit Card, Cash, etc).

 

Now he must transfer in at least 65,000 bt/month using SWIFT.  The current typical Thai bank TT rate is around 39.5-40 THB/GBP.  Since Fx rate using the SWIFT method cannot be fixed until the cash arrives in Thailand and it can vary by around 1% in any 24 hour period, it makes sense to send at least an extra 1%. Including fees (assumes 20GBP for SWIFT), this requires sending 1663GBP/month, or 19953/yr.

 

But to actually receive this net of tax, he would need a gross pension of around 22,000/yr. (Assumes Personal Allowance of 11,850 and 20% tax above this, with no other deductions, such as child support, etc).

 

This represents a 4250 GBP increase (24%) in retirement income necessary for a Brit to satisfy the new income rules. 

 

Note: If Transferwise can be shown to be acceptable, this extra could be reduced to around 3300 GBP or 19%.

[Spidey]

17 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The lack of a PC, no internet and most importantly no online banking facility with his UK bank.

Surely, all UK banks have online banking? A friend could set the rest up for him on a smartphone.

[Yellowtail]

37 minutes ago, Spidey said:

555, I can see the IO being happy with that! As things stand they are insisting on 12x65k transfers, in your bank book.

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about withdrawing funds with a home county credit card and depositing them into a Thai account, and that the deposits would appear in you book-bank.