What would you do to prevent illegal extension applications???

[notamember]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The bank-letter only shows the current balance, but I get what you mean.

 

Requires the seasoning-info is kept on-file permanently - or at least for the year the extension is active, or long enough to ensure a review is possible.  This would need some follow up - at least some spot-checking of actual bank-histories, to see if they match the (possibly fake) seasoning-proof copies.

 

Or just ban agents, like they did in the Philippines.  Now, in the PI, the IOs have nothing to gain by screwing anyone.  Of course, their rules are much more straightforward, which helps their process remain sane.

what about travel agents that offer visa services ?

most do

[Golden Triangle]

I agree with so many posters on here, I am also sympathetic to the title of this thread as to how members here would ease the sometimes onerous task of applying for retirement/marriage extensions of stay.

 

Unfortunately the individual immigration officers/offices have cottoned on and realised that they are sitting on a goldmine, they themselves are to blame for the situation we now find ourselves in. I will reiterate as briefly as possible what happened to me last year:

 

I received a new passport in January last year, I asked the question here and of my friends " how long to transfer stamps from old to new? " and was told by many many people 1 day, ah all good thought I, as I had to also renew my retirement extension at the end of Jan, beginning of Feb, all legal and above board 800k in the bank, all forms correctly completed all photocopies in order and signed, good to go I thought, do the both on the same day    

 

Arrived at immigration, to be told transfer of stamps takes 4 days !! So effectively the letter from my bank for retirement extension was no good, when I returned 4 days later, again, with all the paperwork in order I was told to deposit 10k Baht into my account and get a receipt from the bank and my book updated to prove it had been done, I had to ask the Mrs to transfer 10k from her account to mine I also have notification from my bank to my phone when withdrawal/deposits are made, I was in immigration when the notification came through, I showed her my phone, she just said to me "I want to see updated bank book".

 

After much faffing around she grudgingly took all my stuff into her boss, who, after an eternity finally signed it off, I vowed there & then to only use agents in the future.

 

I used an agent this year, the process was a piece of wee wee compared to last year, so I ask you all, who is to blame for this abomination we now have to deal with ??? Certainly not me, immigration drove me down the agent route, and as long as it remains available I will continue to use it.

[samtam]

7 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The bank-letter only shows the current balance, but I get what you mean.

 

 

My bank also provides a print out of the passbook entries and is signed and chopped by the bank, thus confirming that the THB800k came in 3 months prior to the EoS renewal date. 

 

This process is straightforward and proof of the applicant following the rules. If for some reason the IO is not satisfied with the written evidence, 1) original bank book, (which is updated on the day of renewal), 2) the signed bank statement of the transactions, 3) the signed bank letter of balance, then they can ask for personnel of each bank in Thailand to be assigned to IMM to check.

Edited February 3, 2019 by samtam

[mercman24]

at the end of the day, i ask you what harm are these people doing who do not have the requirements for the new stupid rules, they pay their way, many lived here for years, and contribute to the economy,   no other country makes these demands on retirees,  and yes i can afford it.  they need start chasing thais who do not pay one baht in taxes, millions of those around

[JackThompson]

24 minutes ago, notamember said:

what about travel agents that offer visa services ?

most do

Unless things have changed in the last couple years, an agent cannot apply for anything in an immigration office in the PI.

 

24 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

Arrived at immigration, to be told transfer of stamps takes 4 days !!

I've never heard of this either - in years reading reports.  Likely another thing the "agent" can get done in 1-day, I would guess.  If it would not be too revealing of your identity (if a small office), which office and general timeframe does/did this?

[ozmeldo]

Everything should be brought online. Simple, clear BW criteria with pay at post Once complete, go get your stamp.

 

Allow multi entry extension in one price, two stamps.

 

Report mid year 90 day.

 

Combine marriage, retirement visa criteria. Marriage/family 400k, retirement 800k.

 

Establishing GSB passbook account paying 1.5% + on deposits above 500k.

 

Get rid of monthly pension qualification.

 

Goal: reduce immigration staff by 85%

 

[ozmeldo]

30 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

at the end of the day, i ask you what harm are these people doing who do not have the requirements for the new stupid rules, they pay their way, many lived here for years, and contribute to the economy,   no other country makes these demands on retirees,  and yes i can afford it.  they need start chasing thais who do not pay one baht in taxes, millions of those around

All countries make these demands on those fully retired to respective countries.

 

Why would Thailand want another nations indigent old people?! I'm lost.

[seasia]

1 hour ago, offset said:

I keep looking at my Kbank pages that I used for my Extension on Friday and I cannot see any number on the pages of my passbook if I knew how to post a copy on here I would do so. I see on my Krungsri bank book that all pages have the account number on them

Same here, just checked my K bank passbook and no numbers on any of pages except the front one.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

Why would Thailand want another nations indigent old people?! I'm lost.

Because it's worth $$$$$$$s to them?

Not sure many are poor or needy (indigent) though, we're filthy rich compared to 80% of their native population.

Edited February 3, 2019 by BritManToo

[ozmeldo]

Just now, BritManToo said:

Because it's worth $$$$$$$s to them?

Wow, not to be insulting but you know nothing about Thailand, personal interest or macroeconomics.

 

This lot is worth nothing to Thailand. Not even as holiday goer's

[Golden Triangle]

21 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I've never heard of this either - in years reading reports.  Likely another thing the "agent" can get done in 1-day, I would guess.  If it would not be too revealing of your identity (if a small office), which office and general timeframe does/did this?

It was January last year, Jomtien office, desk 8.

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

Wow, not to be insulting but you know nothing about Thailand, personal interest or macroeconomics.

 

This lot is worth nothing to Thailand. Not even as holiday goer's

My gfs mother gets 600bht/month pension (drain on the Thai economy).

I spend 40,000bht/month (foreign currency for the Thai economy).

 

Economic sense would be to kill their own pensioners and replace them with foreign pensioners.

Perhaps you should retake your macroeconomics exams.

Edited February 3, 2019 by BritManToo

[tgeezer]

They could lower the financial requirement to a level which can be met by someone who met them at historical exchange rates.
Apart form 90 day reports and not being permitted to work most of the conditions which we need to fulfil are laid down by Chief of Police, Labour Minister etc. They are general rules which make extending a visa routine if complied with. I think that few people need what the rules say they need to live here if they have adapted well and those who can’t comply are special cases who cannot be dealt with as routine and are done on an individual basis through agents, not by bribery in the offices. The only experience I have had of agents is an acquaintance who is married and does not work but receives income for UK and can afford to live here, he uses an agent for all dealings with Immigration. From that experience I would say that what better way could be devised than having an agent representing your case? He has the time to translate language, to assess you, put the paperwork in order to satisfy the rules and absolve the officer granting the extension plausible denial, Thai style. This is what the embassy letters did as far as income was concerned I believe.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[JackThompson]

21 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

All countries make these demands on those fully retired to respective countries.

Different countries, different rules.  Some you just pay them every so often (in the region, adds up to about 1000 baht/mo) and that's it.

 

Quote

Why would Thailand want another nations indigent old people?! I'm lost.

Definition of indigent

1 : suffering from extreme poverty : impoverished

 

Precisely because we are not indigent (old or young).  We spend foreign-sourced money here.  The indigent starve without handouts.  We don't get handouts here which, by itself, ensures a lack of indigent foreigners in the country.

 

18 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

Wow, not to be insulting but you know nothing about Thailand, personal interest or macroeconomics.

 

This lot is worth nothing to Thailand. Not even as holiday goer's 

What about micro-economics - as in the thousands of Thais whose salaries exist thanks to our spending, and the thousands of families who are not in poverty because we are a part of those families.

 

Do they count?

 

Why is the only thing that matters some GDP number or macroeconomic theory, when lives are in the balance - and we Are Not Doing Any Harm At All - Only Good?? 

Edited February 3, 2019 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

25 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

It was January last year, Jomtien office, desk 8.

Thanks. The year before (or so) they did it while I waited there.  I would have told you wrong if you asked, as they added yet another hoop.

[offset]

30 minutes ago, seasia said:

Same here, just checked my K bank passbook and no numbers on any of pages except the front one.

That is why I say that when using Kbank or any others banks with the same problem a signed off copy of the bank statement should be good enough no need for a letter then

[from the home of CC]

What scares people the most and keeps the majority of us in line? Loss of freedom. Mandatory 5 yr sentences for those involved in immigration corruption (agents/officers) and lifetime ban for foreigners. Periodically bring in undercover imm. agents to reinforce behavior.  

[notamember]

3 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

What scares people the most and keeps the majority of us in line? Loss of freedom. Mandatory 5 yr sentences for those involved in immigration corruption (agents/officers) and lifetime ban for foreigners. Periodically bring in undercover imm. agents to reinforce behavior.  

do you really think that immigration officers want agents arrested?

they know where all the bodies are buried

The only ones that will stop this are the IO themselves when they say to agents, i am sorry i cannot do it anymore, then that will be it but it will never happen

IO have mortgages, car finance , school fees to pay too

 

 

[Nowisee]

 

23 hours ago, Pilotman said:

Simple really, grant 5 year temporary settlement visas in the home country, not here in LOS.  Require all the financials/police checks etc on application (by post and  if necessary interview.) Scrap the difference between a visa based on marriage or retirement, but allow application for a work permit from those with the new TSV.  Scrap 90 day reporting in favour of annual reporting. 

 

BJ, if you are reading this, I can offer consultancy at reasonable rates. 

 

BANG!
This is SPOT ON!  

 

23 hours ago, Sheryl said:

No matter what rules are developed, agents can circumvent them - but only if corrupt IOs and/or bank staff cooperate.

 

The solution is not hard to understand, there is just no political will to implement it.

 

1. Outlaw Visa agents and enforce this.

 

2. Dismiss corrupt IOs.

 

 

 

SPOT ON!

 

 

[Toosetinmyways]

1 hour ago, seasia said:

Same here, just checked my K bank passbook and no numbers on any of pages except the front one.

Look right in the centre of the page and you will see an outlined number that coresponds to the page number. Obviously there to prevent tampering.

[JackThompson]

14 minutes ago, Toosetinmyways said:

Look right in the centre of the page and you will see an outlined number that coresponds to the page number. Obviously there to prevent tampering.

The page-number or account number?  A page number could be from a bank-book for any account - not necessarily the applicant's account.  But if only copies are needed, it could all be photoshop. 

 

Unless I missed it, I think the "forge the bank book" meme first appeared in the last couple days.  Recently, BJ gave an interview, where he claimed that his IOs were "fooled" by agents into thinking the money belonged to the applicant.  I and others laughed - pointing out the absurdity - we know they don't enforce the seasoning for agent apps.   Now, suddenly, "agents fake the bank books" seems to be in-vogue.  The question arises as to documentation of seasoning, if and how long it is kept, etc. 

 

Maybe it's just a coincidence, and they really do this.  Maybe some always have - or at some offices/areas.  But it is a but funny that never was mentioned in years of posts about agents until now - so could also be some CYA historical revisionism in play.

[offset]

12 minutes ago, Toosetinmyways said:

Look right in the centre of the page and you will see an outlined number that coresponds to the page number. Obviously there to prevent tampering.

Not on the new books only on the old books did it have a space for the number on my old book (2014) there was a space for one to be added but there was no number in it

 

On the new book there is nothing on on the right hand side the at the top

 

The only book that I had was a time deposit book dated 2011 and the number was on all the pages but they replaced this with a new book without a number on the pages

[offset]

5 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The page-number or account number?  A page number could be from a bank-book for any account - not necessarily the applicant's account.  But if only copies are needed, it could all be photoshop. 

 

Unless I missed it, I think the "forge the bank book" meme first appeared in the last couple days.  Recently, BJ gave an interview, where he claimed that his IOs were "fooled" by agents into thinking the money belonged to the applicant.  I and others laughed - pointing out the absurdity - we know they don't enforce the seasoning for agent apps.   Now, suddenly, "agents fake the bank books" seems to be in-vogue.  The question arises as to documentation of seasoning, if and how long it is kept, etc. 

 

Maybe it's just a coincidence, and they really do this.  Maybe some always have - or at some offices/areas.  But it is a but funny that never was mentioned in years of posts about agents until now - so could also be some CYA historical revisionism in play.

I brought this up only has a way it could be done and there would be no paper trail to check it, I never said it was a way it was done, but there would not be a way to check it after the extension was granted

 

Not need to forge any bank books just show copies from 2 bank books and for the IO not to look to closely to the bank book

 

I only thought about it after checking my paperwork for doing my extension on Friday 

[crazygreg44]

On 2/2/2019 at 10:11 AM, Peterw42 said:

The extensions are not always fraud, a high level immigration officer can approve an extension without funds or seasoning, "legally".

Access to the high level officer, via an agent, is corruption etc but its still a legal extension if the officer is empowered.

 

the IO's are free to decide ? are you referring to this police order:

   http://www.krisdika.go.th/wps/wcm/connect/2ae308804ba182b697f29f8b4221fda7/Immigration_Act_B.E._2522.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=2ae308804ba182b697f29f8b4221fda7

 

they are actually allowed ( i.e. "empowered")  to ignore in case you don't meet the requirements regarding the seasoned 400k or 800k 

 

it is somewhere in this text . . . you might be able to find it quoted . . . myself i haven't checked, so far 

Edited February 3, 2019 by crazygreg44

[ChouDoufu]

prevent illegal extensions?  my solution....

 

every applicant must post a 555K bond by way of a fixed interest-bearing account at government bank.  no seasoning required - either it's there or it's not.  (immigration could have limited access to the database?)  no withdrawals unless certified emergency, or 7 days prior to expiration of current extension or with voluntary early revocation. 

 

every applicant deposits the same amount.  no point in single retired fellows keeping 800k for living expenses when a married fellow supporting a family only needs to show 400k.

 

government bank shall let any foreigner open the bond account at any time, removing the catch-22 for "no work permit - no bank account," provided application for visa or visa conversion is made within 90 days.

 

at the same time, requirement should be added to show proof of adequate health insurance.  lack of coverage would require purchase of a limited local catastrophic coverage policy that includes repatriation, maybe option of opening a separate bond deposit account that could be closed later with proof of cover.

 

oh.....enforce the applicant must apply in person part of the law.  i won't go into cracking down on corrupt io's or shady agents, assuming nothing is going to change that.

[dcnx]

5 hours ago, Nowisee said:

 

 

BANG!
This is SPOT ON!  

 

 

SPOT ON!

 

 

Unfortunately, neither are ever going to happen. Logic never has and never will exist here.

 

Such problems are easy to solve if you are functioning at an intelligence level slighter higher than a baboon.

[crazygreg44]

5 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

prevent illegal extensions?  my solution....

 

every applicant must post a 555K bond by way of a fixed interest-bearing account at government bank.  no seasoning required - either it's there or it's not.  (immigration could have limited access to the database?)  no withdrawals unless certified emergency, or 7 days prior to expiration of current extension or with voluntary early revocation. 

 

every applicant deposits the same amount.  no point in single retired fellows keeping 800k for living expenses when a married fellow supporting a family only needs to show 400k.

 

government bank shall let any foreigner open the bond account at any time, removing the catch-22 for "no work permit - no bank account," provided application for visa or visa conversion is made within 90 days.

 

at the same time, requirement should be added to show proof of adequate health insurance.  lack of coverage would require purchase of a limited local catastrophic coverage policy that includes repatriation, maybe option of opening a separate bond deposit account that could be closed later with proof of cover.

 

oh.....enforce the applicant must apply in person part of the law.  i won't go into cracking down on corrupt io's or shady agents, assuming nothing is going to change that.

you did forget to read the previous post no. 144

 

there is no illegality.

 

The IO are free to skip the 800K requirement.

 

It is all and clearly stated in the police order i linked in my post

[JLCrab]

2 hours ago, crazygreg44 said:

you did forget to read the previous post no. 144

there is no illegality.

The IO are free to skip the 800K requirement.

It is all and clearly stated in the police order i linked in my post

Yes and this is also clearly stated in the Immigration Act as linked above re Section 35 which is the Section pertaining to issuing of extensions of stay Page 38:

 

(3) Application for extension of temporary stay in the Kingdom under Section 35, per person, each time 2,000 baht

 

So why are agents asking sometimes 10 times that amount or more for the same thing?

Edited February 3, 2019 by JLCrab

[Gecko123]

On 2/2/2019 at 4:24 PM, madmen said:

Arrest the agents and their IO hommy.

They are easy to spot, you know.. The guy that Waltzes up to the officer and drops 20 passports on the desk followed by rapport building chatter like.. Congratulations on your new Mercedes, you hard worker and deserve it.

Agents seem to have taken over my central immigration office (province begins with an L). They have a very palsy-walsy relationship with the Immigration staff, and suddenly it feels like anybody who doesn't use an agent is a second class customer.

 

Why you no understand rules like nice agent? Why you no speak fluent Thai like nice agent? Why you forget write telephone number on visa renewal form (even though there's no line asking for it?) Why you no know when we say "within 7 days" we count day one as same day you get letter from bank? Farang mai ruu ruang, followed by jolly buddha laugh.

 

A poster on another thread said agents never give kickbacks to immigration officers. I find that impossible to believe. Also, when IO officers are getting kickbacks from agents, little old you, filing your application on your own, ends up just being a more troublesome customer who isn't benefiting the IO as much as someone who uses an agent. All the more reason for the corrupt immigration officer to see you as a headache and by maybe being a stickler for the rules and making things as difficult as possible, drive you into the arms of an immigration agent which in turn lines the pockets of IO further.

[a977]

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 4:30 PM, skatewash said:

I like both of these suggestions.  #2 would be an order of magnitude more difficult to do, but doing #1 would help a bit with #2.

#2 would not be difficult if only we could find a non corrupt official to do  asset and financial checks on ALL immigration officers, just the thought of a check on their bank accounts house records and car assets would scare the living s### out of them