The Law of Metabolic Individuality (fat loss ect)

[robblok]

Quote

Metabolic Uniqueness
Sure, we humans share a metabolism that functions, by and large, the same from person to person. The best way to conceptualize this metabolic individuality is to think about appearance. There's no mistaking that the people you interact with daily are human. 

 

https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/tip-the-law-of-metabolic-individuality

 

I am always amazed here in the fat too fat forum that everyone is always banging on on what is best for everyone. Without taking into account that we are all different to a certain degree. Some lose fat much easier then others, some don't get fat at all and its not always a matter of diet. Genes play an important role. So why people keep promoting 1 diet suits all (be it Keto, Paleo,IF, or low fat or whatever) amazes me. The last research showed that keto over a whole year did make people lose around 1,5 pound more ( something like 7% more of total loss) So in average it could be better but that does not mean its better for everyone. If you can't stick with a diet it wont work.

 

The best diet is the diet that you can do forever, because that is what it takes. Go back to old habits and you get fat again. 

 

I always have to laugh when you see ripped bodybuilders or fitness models promote their diet, these guys often use substances and are lucky genetically they could have succeeded on any diet so just that someone who looks great does it does not mean it works. Just find something that works for you.

 

The basis of every good diet is cutting out processed food, eating healthy and eating less as calories do count. Once you got that sorted out you will lose weight no matter.

 

Though if your pre diabetic you should really go keto as then it would be a big plus.

 

Just my two cents as I get bored with the real polarised views here on dieting leaving no room for individuality, i for one need carbs around my lifting sessions as no carbs means a crap workout and no muscles. For others who do cardio work carbs are less useful and Keto works better for them. 

 

There is no one best way people have to find out what works for them.

[Nyezhov]

 

1 hour ago, robblok said:

The basis of every good diet is cutting out processed food, eating healthy and eating less as calories do count. Once you got that sorted out you will lose weight no matter.

 

So I am out of the starvation phase and into working on this new eating lifestyle. Whether it works or not is to be seen. 

 

The diet is simple, I have eliminated 99% of : Ham, Processed Meats, Croissants, Pies, Bread, Butter, Cheese, Soda, Fruit Juice, Pudding, Cream Sauces, 7-11 prepared foods, Mickey Ds, Burger King, Taco Bell, Candy, Ice Cream, Pringles, Cake, cupcakes, cheese cakes, crackers, danish, Srai Grok, sausages in general, pizza, pasta and anything else yummy. No deep fried anything. No Palm Sugar, added sugar, chocolate, khanom, coconut

 

In exchange, I have negotiated with myself to get the following in exchange.

 

I have been hitting the all you can eat shabu places, because I can pound down veggies and mushrooms and as long as you pick the lean chicken and beef, you are golden.

 

Sushi and/or shashimi three times a week, no rolls, uni or shellfish, just Sake, Hamachi, Saba. Gai Yang, grilled pork chop, cabbage, fruit till I puke (2-3 bags a day), one small sticky rice, noodle soups, stir fried Morning glory and stir fries. And Manago smoothies once every few days if just mango and ice.

 

Im going to find a scale today just to see. I have been trying to walk 3 miles a day but I stopped counting the carbs as it was a pain in the ass to enter the data. But I am close to 1500 or less a day.

[robblok]

 
 
So I am out of the starvation phase and into working on this new eating lifestyle. Whether it works or not is to be seen. 
 
The diet is simple, I have eliminated 99% of : Ham, Processed Meats, Croissants, Pies, Bread, Butter, Cheese, Soda, Fruit Juice, Pudding, Cream Sauces, 7-11 prepared foods, Mickey Ds, Burger King, Taco Bell, Candy, Ice Cream, Pringles, Cake, cupcakes, cheese cakes, crackers, danish, Srai Grok, sausages in general, pizza, pasta and anything else yummy. No deep fried anything. No Palm Sugar, added sugar, chocolate, khanom, coconut
 
In exchange, I have negotiated with myself to get the following in exchange.
 
I have been hitting the all you can eat shabu places, because I can pound down veggies and mushrooms and as long as you pick the lean chicken and beef, you are golden.
 
Sushi and/or shashimi three times a week, no rolls, uni or shellfish, just Sake, Hamachi, Saba. Gai Yang, grilled pork chop, cabbage, fruit till I puke (2-3 bags a day), one small sticky rice, noodle soups, stir fried Morning glory and stir fries. And Manago smoothies once every few days if just mango and ice.
 
Im going to find a scale today just to see. I have been trying to walk 3 miles a day but I stopped counting the carbs as it was a pain in the ass to enter the data. But I am close to 1500 or less a day.

I hope you can find some good scales. An option that i like more is a measuring tape around the waist.

You have changed for the better but keep in mind too much beef .. chicken or fish adds up too.

Happy to see that your doing better. For me hunger is now less of a problem. I am not using scales as its useless for me at this point. I just use a measuring tape and feel my clothes fitting much better.

Now back at a point where i am ok, now for the hard part getting my abs back. Guess 2 more months. But what im doing now is something i can stick with so i think it will work.

Still need to figure out a high carb meal before training. I am thinking of macaroni prepared in a big batch and defrosted when i need it. (Lazy cook).



Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[robblok]

3 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

I have used the "goal pants" method. I put a pair of pants, that are snug, in a drawer. Then I clean up my diet [I like the eat two meals a day approach*.] increase cardio [walking works for me] and weight train 3-4 times a week. After 3 months, I try on the pants to find that they are now a bit loose.

 

* https://www.google.com/search?num=100&client=firefox-b-d&ei=elJWXLOUD6CcvQTNvaH4Dg&q=intermittent+fasting&oq=intermittent+fasting&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i131i67j0i67l3j0l6.591020.609614..614925...0.0..0.196.2424.0j20......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i131.is63I8ktlpc

I like the goal pants method, the scales can drive me mad at times as it fluctuates too much. Plus the moment i take some creatine or carb up the scales differences are even greater. So a tape measure helps. Plus, i don't stress too much anymore about it as its not that bad so there is no rush.

 

For me the walking with the weights helps (farmers walk) though in all honesty I have read / heard that exercise is not that great for weight loss. It all adds up but cleaning up diet is far more important.

[dontoearth]

    One thing everyone may find helpful is getting to know your body.  Hello body!  What foods make you feel satisfied easy?  What foods bring on endless hunger for more and more?  Are you hungry in the morning?  Evening?  Do you snack?  It even helps to write down what you ate and record your feelings after and see how soon you need the next meal. This really tells you a lot about how YOUR body is reacting to various foods.   If eating makes you happy.  then groggy, and then hungry all before the next meal time.  Get rid of that food NOW.  The processed food industry has turned to brain scan imaging to make their wretched products more addictive.  Yeah you want it.  But it is almost poison to you.  A good youtube on that industry and how it makes addictive food  in a ted talk.  If you are getting these reactions there is no possibility the food you ate at the last meal is good for you.  This will help you pick a method for dieting.

     My analysis on me showed I hated breakfast.  Was never hungry in the morning.  If I did eat a nourishing satisfying carb meal like oatmeal.  I was out of my mind with hunger about 2 and a half hours later.  I had to have muffins, candy bar.  I might even shake.  

      I found eggs and cheese were satisfying and I didn't need big portions.  I might like Keto?  

      Based on this analysis.  I decided to go to two meals a day.  I do intermittent fasting.  Eggs cheese and vegetables are great for lunch.  They don't slow me down.  OH another thought do you get hazy, foggy, sleepy, bone tired unbearable to be around after certain foods?  Your body is giving you a clear message.  No matter how tasty those foods are they not good for you.  I cut down even on the 'good carbs' in grain and just use vegetables and fruit for the carbs.  A lot of it raw!  You can get so much good fresh fruit in TH.

     I found many foods so enjoyable but useless. Potato chips and pizza and pastry other processed carbs sent me into eat like an animal that is starving mode.  Yes there are people that can live on that stuff and not gain weight.  No one knows why!  That is the reason everyone gets results from different diet plans.  I just put bad things for me off limits.  BTW.  Don't be scared to piss off friends.  I got yelled at and belittled for canceling the sunday pizza and beer bash with my friends.  So are they really my friends?  One of them has bad type II diabetes.  He should get some clues about eating rather than endless taking meds that don't help him.    He insists everyone joins him at pizza so we can watch him stuff himself and then take a big handful of pills.  UGH!  He even tells everyone the pills are making him well.

     So keeping a log and exploring your foods and your reactions can tell you whether you should Keto, Fast, vegan?  Atkins?   Live on complex carbohydrates?  its possible.  I guess its an overall body diary.  Besides foods and hunger you need to know how you feel most of the day. 

     A diet will work much better if you get the diet that is most harmonious with what your body tells you.

     It is nice to have the advice of others but way too many people here push a single solution like it was the one true religion.

     I do intermittent fasting hate breakfast.  It makes me hungry and keeps me eating all day.  I the IF  with Keto elements and COMPLEX carbs.  I lost 31 lbs but a long plateau has emerged.  I didn't hit my ultimate weight goal so I am indeed eating things now and re-evaluating them.

      Oh.  I hate cheat days.  I never do it.  It is just a distraction that doesn't work that leads to several days of really leaving my body out of tune so to speak.  I don't think they let alcoholics or heroin addicts have a cheat day for pretty obvious reasons.  Think about it?

      So good luck to everyone.  And I fully understand oatmeal may be the best food in the world for you.  It is poison to me.

 

 

 

[Nyezhov]

I too have been finding breakfast unpalatable for some reason. I always think that when I am leaner, I am not eating breakfast. When I do eat it, I sometimes get those midday shakes too.

[robblok]

6 hours ago, dontoearth said:

    One thing everyone may find helpful is getting to know your body.  Hello body!  What foods make you feel satisfied easy?  What foods bring on endless hunger for more and more?  Are you hungry in the morning?  Evening?  Do you snack?  It even helps to write down what you ate and record your feelings after and see how soon you need the next meal. This really tells you a lot about how YOUR body is reacting to various foods.   If eating makes you happy.  then groggy, and then hungry all before the next meal time.  Get rid of that food NOW.  The processed food industry has turned to brain scan imaging to make their wretched products more addictive.  Yeah you want it.  But it is almost poison to you.  A good youtube on that industry and how it makes addictive food  in a ted talk.  If you are getting these reactions there is no possibility the food you ate at the last meal is good for you.  This will help you pick a method for dieting.

     My analysis on me showed I hated breakfast.  Was never hungry in the morning.  If I did eat a nourishing satisfying carb meal like oatmeal.  I was out of my mind with hunger about 2 and a half hours later.  I had to have muffins, candy bar.  I might even shake.  

      I found eggs and cheese were satisfying and I didn't need big portions.  I might like Keto?  

      Based on this analysis.  I decided to go to two meals a day.  I do intermittent fasting.  Eggs cheese and vegetables are great for lunch.  They don't slow me down.  OH another thought do you get hazy, foggy, sleepy, bone tired unbearable to be around after certain foods?  Your body is giving you a clear message.  No matter how tasty those foods are they not good for you.  I cut down even on the 'good carbs' in grain and just use vegetables and fruit for the carbs.  A lot of it raw!  You can get so much good fresh fruit in TH.

     I found many foods so enjoyable but useless. Potato chips and pizza and pastry other processed carbs sent me into eat like an animal that is starving mode.  Yes there are people that can live on that stuff and not gain weight.  No one knows why!  That is the reason everyone gets results from different diet plans.  I just put bad things for me off limits.  BTW.  Don't be scared to piss off friends.  I got yelled at and belittled for canceling the sunday pizza and beer bash with my friends.  So are they really my friends?  One of them has bad type II diabetes.  He should get some clues about eating rather than endless taking meds that don't help him.    He insists everyone joins him at pizza so we can watch him stuff himself and then take a big handful of pills.  UGH!  He even tells everyone the pills are making him well.

     So keeping a log and exploring your foods and your reactions can tell you whether you should Keto, Fast, vegan?  Atkins?   Live on complex carbohydrates?  its possible.  I guess its an overall body diary.  Besides foods and hunger you need to know how you feel most of the day. 

     A diet will work much better if you get the diet that is most harmonious with what your body tells you.

     It is nice to have the advice of others but way too many people here push a single solution like it was the one true religion.

     I do intermittent fasting hate breakfast.  It makes me hungry and keeps me eating all day.  I the IF  with Keto elements and COMPLEX carbs.  I lost 31 lbs but a long plateau has emerged.  I didn't hit my ultimate weight goal so I am indeed eating things now and re-evaluating them.

      Oh.  I hate cheat days.  I never do it.  It is just a distraction that doesn't work that leads to several days of really leaving my body out of tune so to speak.  I don't think they let alcoholics or heroin addicts have a cheat day for pretty obvious reasons.  Think about it?

      So good luck to everyone.  And I fully understand oatmeal may be the best food in the world for you.  It is poison to me.

 

 

You are getting it totally, people have different needs. You have to find what works for you. Like you rebel about the one size fits all diets and exercise plans. I don't believe in it at all, we all respond different to different things. 

 

I had my problems too with my family for being to strict, however now that my younger brother is a diabetic they seem to understand things a bit better. I am doing this for myself not for others but its hard if friends sabotage it. They should accept that you changed a bit. No need to lecture them about changing their habits but they should not lecture you either. 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Nyezhov said:

I too have been finding breakfast unpalatable for some reason. I always think that when I am leaner, I am not eating breakfast. When I do eat it, I sometimes get those midday shakes too.

I prefer to take some bacon and eggs for breakfast. Just works for me sometimes I even add a protein shake. As I said we are all different and should accept that.

[moe666]

Made a fast trip to BKK this week and visited my tailor ordered a few shirts. He says lets check your measurments from last time. I had lost 4 in from my waist and 3 in. from chest I already knew I had lost weight but not that much. I hit the gym 3 days a week and that is changing my body as well. I like breakfast after my work out for the protien and then more protien later in the day.. I eat a balanced diet but do not get hung up on what I eat. But I defiantly do not listen to any vegans or vegetarians it works for them but for most people no way.

 

Robo good thread

[dontoearth]

16 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

I too have been finding breakfast unpalatable for some reason. I always think that when I am leaner, I am not eating breakfast. When I do eat it, I sometimes get those midday shakes too.

    Excellent you are learning that your body talks to you about food.  Certainly you get some data right away after you eat and until your next eating period.  Feel full?  Feel hungry?  Feel tired?  If you feel full and satisfied that means the food was good for you.  If you have hunger, shakes, feel tired or aching  or sense headaches or are severely bloated the food is not your friend no matter how good it taste. 

    I know some of the best food we have been eating since we were children somehow has turned on us and is attacking us.  Yeah. Life is unfair!  No one knows quite way these things are happening.  From factory farming with the indiscriminate use of pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers,  as well as changing all the feed patterns of the animals we get our meat from that are now injected with antibiotics and growth hormones, to the huge processing houses adding preservatives, flavors, colorings binders, fillers thickeners, stabilizers, sweeteners we just don't know enough about our food today to know what all of this is doing to our bodies.  Collectively most of realize it is putting on layers of fat no previous generations ever experienced. 

     Our foods today are not the foods that our grandmothers brought out of the kitchen 60 years ago.  

     More long term there are now millions of people doing small witness kind of videos (they are not looking for money or following in many cases) telling about rearranging their diet and food choices and overcoming Type II diabetes and Rheumatoid Arthritis.  While not for everyone, those people that can find a path forward out of chronic illness with adjustments to food choices are to be commended.  

      And its not much of a leap to realize almost of those people lost large amounts of weight rather quickly.   

      They usually need to keep weeks of a journals and isolate foods carefully etc.  It is quite a pain but to get rid of a debilitating disease and off the meds which often make a person just as sick really should inspire everyone.  

      For us just dieting it is much easier.  And dieting now may prevent us from ever battling those awful more chronic diseases.  

      Something to be thankful for?

[robblok]

21 hours ago, moe666 said:

Made a fast trip to BKK this week and visited my tailor ordered a few shirts. He says lets check your measurments from last time. I had lost 4 in from my waist and 3 in. from chest I already knew I had lost weight but not that much. I hit the gym 3 days a week and that is changing my body as well. I like breakfast after my work out for the protien and then more protien later in the day.. I eat a balanced diet but do not get hung up on what I eat. But I defiantly do not listen to any vegans or vegetarians it works for them but for most people no way.

 

Robo good thread

I really think its about finding out what is best for you. Vegans might be morally superior as eating meat (i love it) does kill animals. I try not to think too much about that. There are few real muscular vegans as its hard to get the right protein. It might be doable but its hard..

 

Yes hitting the gym in combination with a diet works good, its not that the gym will make you shed fat but it will help you build some muscle. Some people hate the gym (understandable) I just do my workouts and that is it. I do like them at times but I also want them to be done at times. Its just a habit.

 

I also eat balanced though I must say I am low in my carbs, not by design but just how it happens as when I eat veggies with meat I don't need carbs. However before and after a gym session I do try to get some carbs in as they help with muscle build-up (insulin increases helping to build muscles then).

 

Just go on and keep doing what you do. There are often good articles on T nation but a lot of stupid stuff too. Plus writers often have different idea's still I like reading there.

[robblok]

8 hours ago, dontoearth said:

    Excellent you are learning that your body talks to you about food.  Certainly you get some data right away after you eat and until your next eating period.  Feel full?  Feel hungry?  Feel tired?  If you feel full and satisfied that means the food was good for you.  If you have hunger, shakes, feel tired or aching  or sense headaches or are severely bloated the food is not your friend no matter how good it taste. 

    I know some of the best food we have been eating since we were children somehow has turned on us and is attacking us.  Yeah. Life is unfair!  No one knows quite way these things are happening.  From factory farming with the indiscriminate use of pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers,  as well as changing all the feed patterns of the animals we get our meat from that are now injected with antibiotics and growth hormones, to the huge processing houses adding preservatives, flavors, colorings binders, fillers thickeners, stabilizers, sweeteners we just don't know enough about our food today to know what all of this is doing to our bodies.  Collectively most of realize it is putting on layers of fat no previous generations ever experienced. 

     Our foods today are not the foods that our grandmothers brought out of the kitchen 60 years ago.  

     More long term there are now millions of people doing small witness kind of videos (they are not looking for money or following in many cases) telling about rearranging their diet and food choices and overcoming Type II diabetes and Rheumatoid Arthritis.  While not for everyone, those people that can find a path forward out of chronic illness with adjustments to food choices are to be commended.  

      And its not much of a leap to realize almost of those people lost large amounts of weight rather quickly.   

      They usually need to keep weeks of a journals and isolate foods carefully etc.  It is quite a pain but to get rid of a debilitating disease and off the meds which often make a person just as sick really should inspire everyone.  

      For us just dieting it is much easier.  And dieting now may prevent us from ever battling those awful more chronic diseases.  

      Something to be thankful for?

I think you are far more used to processed food then I was. My childhood foods were just normal bread with some meat (ham / or others) cheese or peanut butter. Sometimes we had porridge and evening Yoghurt. Usually some meat, fresh vegetables and potatoes for diner. 

 

Only when I got older did i get a taste of all the fast food. I grew up in a village in The Netherlands not that much fast food around. 

 

I think in the Netherlands they are more on the ball about pesticides and hormones then in the US. I could be wrong of course its known to happen ????

 

Anyway diet is never fun but once you found the right foods its easier. For me its largely a convenience things as I got a lot going on in my life. I am thinking of making spaghetti or macaroni in large portions just to have some before training (without having to cook it new every time). Same like i make roasts and then just cut the meat to eat with my vegetables and have frozen veggies in my freezer. All to make sure I chose the right things and make it easy and fast.

[dontoearth]

20 minutes ago, robblok said:

I think you are far more used to processed food then I was. My childhood foods were just normal bread with some meat (ham / or others) cheese or peanut butter. Sometimes we had porridge and evening Yoghurt. Usually some meat, fresh vegetables and potatoes for diner. 

 

Only when I got older did i get a taste of all the fast food. I grew up in a village in The Netherlands not that much fast food around. 

 

I think in the Netherlands they are more on the ball about pesticides and hormones then in the US. I could be wrong of course its known to happen ????

 

Anyway diet is never fun but once you found the right foods its easier. For me its largely a convenience things as I got a lot going on in my life. I am thinking of making spaghetti or macaroni in large portions just to have some before training (without having to cook it new every time). Same like i make roasts and then just cut the meat to eat with my vegetables and have frozen veggies in my freezer. All to make sure I chose the right things and make it easy and fast.

    Actually I am much older than you and remember gardens and grass fed beef hanging in grandma's smoke house.  Milk out of a cow unpasteurized (and no it will not kill you to drink raw milk)  Eggs from the henhouse and packed in a box and never even refrigerated.  I so miss those days.  I still don't eat fast food or drink soda.  I would have problems with your high carb meals for weight lifting.  I couldn't eat the pasta or macaroni.  I been starting to use vegetables for lasagna.  It does turn out bitter sometimes.  Still experimenting.

     I would agree with you.  The EU is light years ahead of the US in banning pesticides and herbicides and fertilizers and hormones and food additives.  The US keeps those ingredients when lobbyist show up to make campaign contributions before election day.  Our people are silly enough to think the businesses will decide what is best for us.  

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

    Actually I am much older than you and remember gardens and grass fed beef hanging in grandma's smoke house.  Milk out of a cow unpasteurized (and no it will not kill you to drink raw milk)  Eggs from the henhouse and packed in a box and never even refrigerated.  I so miss those days.  I still don't eat fast food or drink soda.  I would have problems with your high carb meals for weight lifting.  I couldn't eat the pasta or macaroni.  I been starting to use vegetables for lasagna.  It does turn out bitter sometimes.  Still experimenting.

     I would agree with you.  The EU is light years ahead of the US in banning pesticides and herbicides and fertilizers and hormones and food additives.  The US keeps those ingredients when lobbyist show up to make campaign contributions before election day.  Our people are silly enough to think the businesses will decide what is best for us.  

Yes your older then me, but I think the US was ahead of my small village by light years food choice wise ????. We just had one fast food joint that had french fries and some other fried food. That was it did we want more we had to travel 8km (does not sound much to me now but it did back then).

 

Anyway I also had fresh eggs as my dad had 4 chickens in a pen behind the house. I am sure I could have gotten raw milk too as I lived in the middle of tulip and milk country in the Netherlands. 

 

My high carb is actually not as high as you think i would limit it to 100 grams or less of macaroni.  But it has been proven its good for lifters and I do feel that my weight sessions go better when I eat carbs around them. You have to understand I do take my lifting seriously even though I don't always like to do it. The research has shown that carbs are needed (actually the insulin spike) to get the nutrients in the muscle for repair and growth after a workout. Research has shown that keto does not build much muscle at all (you don't lose muscle on it that is an untruth but building is a lot harder). 

 

That being said, i miss the days of training with a friend of equal mindset and strength, though on the other hand I love being able to do it all at home. 

 

Now if there was only a way of making cardio less boring (i love walking with weights but I mean other cardio). I had tried to wear my VR headset while on the elliptical but it got too hot. I might put a monitor in front of the elliptical, but I am not sure it would help much and it would set me back 8000 bt or so. Not sure I want to spend that. 

[dontoearth]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Yes your older then me, but I think the US was ahead of my small village by light years food choice wise ????. We just had one fast food joint that had french fries and some other fried food. That was it did we want more we had to travel 8km (does not sound much to me now but it did back then).

 

Anyway I also had fresh eggs as my dad had 4 chickens in a pen behind the house. I am sure I could have gotten raw milk too as I lived in the middle of tulip and milk country in the Netherlands. 

 

My high carb is actually not as high as you think i would limit it to 100 grams or less of macaroni.  But it has been proven its good for lifters and I do feel that my weight sessions go better when I eat carbs around them. You have to understand I do take my lifting seriously even though I don't always like to do it. The research has shown that carbs are needed (actually the insulin spike) to get the nutrients in the muscle for repair and growth after a workout. Research has shown that keto does not build much muscle at all (you don't lose muscle on it that is an untruth but building is a lot harder). 

 

That being said, i miss the days of training with a friend of equal mindset and strength, though on the other hand I love being able to do it all at home. 

 

Now if there was only a way of making cardio less boring (i love walking with weights but I mean other cardio). I had tried to wear my VR headset while on the elliptical but it got too hot. I might put a monitor in front of the elliptical, but I am not sure it would help much and it would set me back 8000 bt or so. Not sure I want to spend that. 

    I never saw a soda or potato chips until I was 10 years old.  My family did not live in the middle of nowhere.  They lived 40 miles from the middle of nowhere.  Fast food would have been about 39 miles away first rural road, then county and then state, (only the state road would be concrete) to get a to a city.  So I had not had a fast food hamburger until I was 12.  I didn't know candy was made year round until I was 8 years old.  I have never gotten used to fast food.  I haven't had any in about a year. Probably once a year I eat something like that.  Otherwise not at all.   I stopped drinking soda in the 80's when they came out with New Coke.  I am really glad it tasted so damned bad!  ????

     People forget that vast areas of the US are very rural and hard to get to.  And yes, people still live there!  I think my mom could still get eggs from a neighbor but being 83 and living alone in a farm house in the middle of NOWHERE she actually likes driving to the city one day a week. 

      So none of my weight problem is processed food or fast food or soda.  I do have a big weakness for really good food.  Fine european pastry, excellent family owned ethnic of almost every variety.  Living in a big city all of it is right at my finger tips.  Maybe I should go live with Mom until I lose another 30 lbs.  ????

       Is there a deprived of civilization diet?  ????

     

     

[robblok]

I am seeing nice results from what I am doing but as I well know the last steps are the hardest. Weight loss will slow down.

 

An other side not i read that you burn 250 cals a day if you use nicotine. I read that quite some bodybuilders take nicotine gum. I tried it too but to curb hunger before I did not know it increased metabolic rate. 

 

Just for those who are wondering, i took it for a while and stopped without ever having withdrawal symptoms of nicotine addiction. So i don't think its as dangerous as smoking (addiction wise). Not sure how bad nicotine on itself is.

[JordanJones]

https://www.thomasdelauer.com/blog/

 

This guy has some good advice

[TravelerEastWest]

"Though if your pre diabetic you should really go keto as then it would be a big plus."

 

Not true at all, the best research shows that a high carb whole plant diet is best for chronic diseases such as heart disease and diabetes.

 

Read Dr Gregor, Dr Ornish and so on... the trend is clear.

 

Normally those who love meat and those who sell meat disagree...

 

 

[stephenterry]

My dieting regime started when I suffered a hernia. If I decided to have surgery, the thought of a surgeon cutting through a belly-load of my fat wasn't appealing. So I purchased a padded truss to keep in the hernia while I slimmed down from 95 kilos.

 

I decided to follow a high fat, low carb plan cutting out beer, bread, and potatoes, using a keto style program. It took a year with some minimal fasting to get down to 80 kilos - and there I stuck.  So I fasted for 84 hours, and reached 73 kilos, which was mainly water loss. However, I quickly gained back most of the weight, despite another three day fasting, and as at today I'm 78 kilos and trying a new plan.

 

This diet is scientifically proven to work if followed properly. It's an every other day (EOD) fast and feast calorie plan. On the assumption that an otherwise healthy male of average height and (over)weight consumes c.2,000 calories (energy) in a normal day, the aim on a fast day is to only consume 500 calories  - 25% - (one small meal and a snack), and on the next feast day eat as much as one wants. Anything goes.

 

The pyschology is knowing that there is no deprivation longer than one day, makes it an easy plan to follow. So, for example if on the feast day, one consumes 3,000 calories on a blow-out, the net calorie consumption is 3,500 over the two-day period or a calorie loss of 500. (4,000-3500).

 

In reality, although I could devour anything and everything on feast day, most times I tend to just eat and drink normally as before, plus walking round the park three times a week for an hour at a time to boost calorie consumpion.

 

I am weighed in at 78 kilos - an everyday measure first thing in the morning - and have been for the last week, so I'm giving it a whirl for a month. As I like to go out and eat lunch three times a week - on the same days - my fast/feast days are feast Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and fast four days Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday/Sunday.

 

The idea behind that split is, should my calorie consumption be higher than I estimated during the week, I'd still be in synch by the next Monday morning by having two consecutive fast days at the weekend.  

 

My aim is to get down to 69 kilos  - and then maintain it, by upping my fast days to 1,000 calories plus exercising to regain some abs definition. Then, if I decide to have surgery with no mesh implants, I'd at least be in better shape. 

 

Apologies for the long post - I hope it helps others in similar situations. 

 

 

 

 

 

[FracturedRabbit]

2 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

"Though if your pre diabetic you should really go keto as then it would be a big plus."

 

Not true at all, the best research shows that a high carb whole plant diet is best for chronic diseases such as heart disease and diabetes.

 

Read Dr Gregor, Dr Ornish and so on... the trend is clear.

 

Normally those who love meat and those who sell meat disagree...

 

 

Diabetes (and heart disease, and other modern chronic diseases) are caused by the metabolism becoming insulin resistant. Insulin resistance is caused by the excessive and prolonged intake of carbohydrates. Plant based carbohydrates may be less damaging than processed crap; but they still trigger insulin. Suggesting a high carb diet (whatever the source) for diabetics is dangerous.

The world has an epidemic of diabetes, caused by a modern diet high in sugar, bread, grains, rice, fruit, and carby junk. More than 25%of hospital beds in the UK are occupied by diabetics. 88% of American adults are metabolically unhealthy. Shoveling down more carbs, whatever the source, ain't going to fix it.

[robblok]

3 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

"Though if your pre diabetic you should really go keto as then it would be a big plus."

 

Not true at all, the best research shows that a high carb whole plant diet is best for chronic diseases such as heart disease and diabetes.

 

Read Dr Gregor, Dr Ornish and so on... the trend is clear.

 

Normally those who love meat and those who sell meat disagree...

 

 

Your totally wrong about diabetes anyone recommending high carb whole plants for diabetic obviously has no clue at all.  For the heart disease I am not going to say anything as there is evidence on all sides but recommending high carbs even plant based for a diabetic person is crazy. 

[FracturedRabbit]

The actual process by which plaque builds up in the artery does indeed seem to be still not fully understood, but one of the conditions that facilitates it is insulin resistance; which is why diabetics have a greatly increased risk of contracting heart disease (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3610922/).

 

I switched to a plant based vegetarian diet some seven years ago in the belief it was more healthy. Unfortunately I assumed that I could consume vast quantities of fruit as part of this diet, mainly taken as smoothies to maximise the glycemic load. Plus loads of bread and rice and "healthy" breakfast cereal. Five years later I discovered I was pre-diabetic and had heart disease.  My approach to counter this has not been to consume more carbs...

[SallyGreen]

When I was 16 I've just killed my metabolism by dieting and anorexia. I gained even when I ate 800 kcal/day. It was really hard for me in physical an psychological way. But my mum helped me.

I went to the gym and started to gain muscles. I gained from 39 kilos to 54. It was stress. And went to the therapist to understand what should I do with my mind and where it is).

 

When I deal with anorexia, it was almost 7 months I started the war for my healthy body. 

At first, I've begun eating a lot of protein and fats. Then, I came back to the gym again and worked out still.

After, my nutritionist told me to add vitamins and detox teas. The last was the best decision ever! After that my metabolism has started to run around 2500 kcal and now I can lose weight, if I need, on 2000 kcals/day and stay healthy. I think that it's all because of this tea reduce toxins in the body and digestive system starts working better. 

 

So, love yourself no matter what and stay healthy!

[FracturedRabbit]

Nothing wrong with plant based/ vegetarian/vegan diets if that is what people want to eat; but to claim they are the best for our health infers that somehow we have evolved over the last few tens of thousands of years from being carnivores to herbivores. 

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170607133246.htm

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/02/190219111704.htm

[TravelerEastWest]

Again plant-based diets are clearly best based on the best and most complete research trends.

 

I use the word trends as there is conflicting research out there and a lot of the research is confusing and incomplete.

 

Even good researchers make mistakes as an example I like Dr. Gregor but he seems to on occasion make mistakes such as with his support for nuts which are high fat and not so good for your heart. I guess he is trying to read with the help of his team huge amounts of data and occasionally he misses key points - sad but true - or so it seems.

 

Insulin resistance is caused by excess fat which then means you can't handle high carbs. Saying carbs is the problem is a short-sighted point of view - not wrong but not the complete picture...

 

Processed carbs are very bad for you.

 

Whole plant based carbs are good for your overall health and over time your insulin resistance will go down based on the best-unbiased research and from my personal experience. (anecdotal I understand...) Note if you have diabetes a whole plant-based diet is not a free ticket to unlimited carbs - you need balance and exercise.

 

The key point the low carb people miss is that long term high fat will kill you - full stop. Also short term your weight will tend to go down glucose tends to go down etc - no argument, but long term not so good.

 

I am not here to argue with die-hard meat and low carb folks - only to point out that there are alternate views supported by good research - for those who are new to this discussion. keep in mind a lot of the research that supports meat eating is funded by - guess who... even nut eating is often funded by the nut industry, NIH research is perhaps the best in terms of pure science and being unbiased - or so I am told.

 

I am also not going to argue that animal cruelty is an issue - although I personally feel that it is - but with a few exceptions, almost everyone I know likes meat and is probably not going to stop eating it. So it is a mute point...

 

For the sports and bodybuilders out there please note there is no need to eat meat to build muscle - there are very good bodybuilders and athletes who are vegetarian - but there are not so many which is why people don't know about them.

 

As for everyone is different to a certain extent this is clearly true but some general constants are also true.

[FracturedRabbit]

1 hour ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Again plant-based diets are clearly best based on the best and most complete research trends.

 

I use the word trends as there is conflicting research out there and a lot of the research is confusing and incomplete.

 

Even good researchers make mistakes as an example I like Dr. Gregor but he seems to on occasion make mistakes such as with his support for nuts which are high fat and not so good for your heart. I guess he is trying to read with the help of his team huge amounts of data and occasionally he misses key points - sad but true - or so it seems.

 

Insulin resistance is caused by excess fat which then means you can't handle high carbs. Saying carbs is the problem is a short-sighted point of view - not wrong but not the complete picture...

 

Processed carbs are very bad for you.

 

Whole plant based carbs are good for your overall health and over time your insulin resistance will go down based on the best-unbiased research and from my personal experience. (anecdotal I understand...) Note if you have diabetes a whole plant-based diet is not a free ticket to unlimited carbs - you need balance and exercise.

 

The key point the low carb people miss is that long term high fat will kill you - full stop. Also short term your weight will tend to go down glucose tends to go down etc - no argument, but long term not so good.

 

I am not here to argue with die-hard meat and low carb folks - only to point out that there are alternate views supported by good research - for those who are new to this discussion. keep in mind a lot of the research that supports meat eating is funded by - guess who... even nut eating is often funded by the nut industry, NIH research is perhaps the best in terms of pure science and being unbiased - or so I am told.

 

I am also not going to argue that animal cruelty is an issue - although I personally feel that it is - but with a few exceptions, almost everyone I know likes meat and is probably not going to stop eating it. So it is a mute point...

 

For the sports and bodybuilders out there please note there is no need to eat meat to build muscle - there are very good bodybuilders and athletes who are vegetarian - but there are not so many which is why people don't know about them.

 

As for everyone is different to a certain extent this is clearly true but some general constants are also true.

"Insulin resistance is caused by excess fat". Sorry, this is completely untrue.
When glucose arrives in the bloodstream, insulin is released by the pancreas to direct the glucose to muscle and fat cells. Glucose comes from carbohydrates/sugar. An intake of protein also requires insulin for metabolism, but to a lesser extent and with limited effect on blood sugar. An intake of fat requires minimal insulin and has no effect on blood sugar. Insulin resistance occurs when the system is consistently overloaded with demands for insulin leading to a rise in blood sugar levels. Fat intake has absolutely nothing to do with this.
Here's some reading for you, published by NIH: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1204764/

Please share your best research that counters current medical science by proving that insulin resistance is caused by excess fat. I would like to read this because my diet is mainly fat (including, horror!, nuts) and my metabolism is healthy with very low HbA1C; so I am obviously a medical freak!

 

"he key point the low carb people miss is that long term high fat will kill you". Yeah, we are all stupid.

[robblok]

14 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Again plant-based diets are clearly best based on the best and most complete research trends.

 

I use the word trends as there is conflicting research out there and a lot of the research is confusing and incomplete.

 

Even good researchers make mistakes as an example I like Dr. Gregor but he seems to on occasion make mistakes such as with his support for nuts which are high fat and not so good for your heart. I guess he is trying to read with the help of his team huge amounts of data and occasionally he misses key points - sad but true - or so it seems.

 

Insulin resistance is caused by excess fat which then means you can't handle high carbs. Saying carbs is the problem is a short-sighted point of view - not wrong but not the complete picture...

 

Processed carbs are very bad for you.

 

Whole plant based carbs are good for your overall health and over time your insulin resistance will go down based on the best-unbiased research and from my personal experience. (anecdotal I understand...) Note if you have diabetes a whole plant-based diet is not a free ticket to unlimited carbs - you need balance and exercise.

 

The key point the low carb people miss is that long term high fat will kill you - full stop. Also short term your weight will tend to go down glucose tends to go down etc - no argument, but long term not so good.

 

I am not here to argue with die-hard meat and low carb folks - only to point out that there are alternate views supported by good research - for those who are new to this discussion. keep in mind a lot of the research that supports meat eating is funded by - guess who... even nut eating is often funded by the nut industry, NIH research is perhaps the best in terms of pure science and being unbiased - or so I am told.

 

I am also not going to argue that animal cruelty is an issue - although I personally feel that it is - but with a few exceptions, almost everyone I know likes meat and is probably not going to stop eating it. So it is a mute point...

 

For the sports and bodybuilders out there please note there is no need to eat meat to build muscle - there are very good bodybuilders and athletes who are vegetarian - but there are not so many which is why people don't know about them.

 

As for everyone is different to a certain extent this is clearly true but some general constants are also true.

I choose to eat meat sorry to offend you.. not because it is good to build muscle (better as most plant based proteins) but because I like eating it.  But it certainly is not where i get most of my proteins from.

 

I believe in carbs i don't see the point to always limit them but it certainly is needed if your diabetic. So your wrong there carbs are the reason. I eat carbs I don't fear them and I eat them around my training and maybe later when I am super lean at normal times.

 

I feel there are far too many extremist about dieting low carb, now you with your pant based diet. I feel you can also eat between low carb and high carb if you want. The basis is eating whole foods and eating less then what you consume and not eating excessive carbs (even plant based) What is excessive depends of course on the individual. 

 

I am getting leaner as ever and I steal eat carbs. I am low carb too on my non training days. It all seems to work right now (until it stops of course)

[TravelerEastWest]

20 hours ago, FracturedRabbit said:

The actual process by which plaque builds up in the artery does indeed seem to be still not fully understood, but one of the conditions that facilitates it is insulin resistance; which is why diabetics have a greatly increased risk of contracting heart disease (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3610922/).

 

I switched to a plant based vegetarian diet some seven years ago in the belief it was more healthy. Unfortunately I assumed that I could consume vast quantities of fruit as part of this diet, mainly taken as smoothies to maximise the glycemic load. Plus loads of bread and rice and "healthy" breakfast cereal. Five years later I discovered I was pre-diabetic and had heart disease.  My approach to counter this has not been to consume more carbs...

The bread was probably a big part of your challenge?

 

Fruit as smoothies compared to eating whole fruit also a challenge.

[TravelerEastWest]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

9

2 hours ago, robblok said:

I choose to eat meat sorry to offend you.. not because it is good to build muscle (better as most plant based proteins) but because I like eating it.  But it certainly is not where i get most of my proteins from.

 

I believe in carbs i don't see the point to always limit them but it certainly is needed if your diabetic. So your wrong there carbs are the reason. I eat carbs I don't fear them and I eat them around my training and maybe later when I am super lean at normal times.

 

I feel there are far too many extremist about dieting low carb, now you with your pant based diet. I feel you can also eat between low carb and high carb if you want. The basis is eating whole foods and eating less then what you consume and not eating excessive carbs (even plant based) What is excessive depends of course on the individual. 

 

I am getting leaner as ever and I steal eat carbs. I am low carb too on my non training days. It all seems to work right now (until it stops of course)

Thank you for your consideration - your meat-eating doesn't directly offend me. 

 

What some in this thread don't see is that healthy whole plant carbs are very healthy for diabetics I can tell you this from the research and many years of personal experience.

 

Yes, my diet is very extreme and so is my diabetes (many years) if I did not have diabetes I would not be so extreme.

 

"The basis is eating whole foods and eating less then what you consume and not eating excessive carbs (even plant based) What is excessive depends of course on the individual."

 

I agree with your above statement - smiling.

[robblok]

I don't get it how carbs can ever work for someone who is diabetic. Do you take medicine to combat your diabetic. Because if you don't then i am impressed then you control your diabetic with carbs something that is unheard of. 

 

It is often heard of people not taking medicine and eating no carbs and controlling their disease like that but not with carbs.

 

Again it depends of course on how many and what kind of carbs how much of an insulin response people get. My brother is diabetic and can take carbs.. but only because he takes medicine without it would be real bad for him.