Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes

[Speedhump]

Could someone please tell me how to turn off notifications for new posts under this thread. I must be stupid, but I can't see how to. Its been driving me crazy for months (can't believe how long it's been running!). 

Ah, it's OK. 

I just noticed the 'notify me of replies' button under the comments pane. Feeling pretty dumb right now, becayse I also can't see a way to completely delete this post.... 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Speedhump
Paragraph added.

[Jingthing]

Another thought on choosing expat countries, showing how personal these decisions can be.

As I said before I'm clear now that IF I was a virginal expat, I definitely would NOT be moving to Thailand and I definitely would be moving to Latin America.

But I'm not that.

Living in Pattaya, the situation with CHINESE FOOD continues to get better and better over time. The obvious reason is the increase in Chinese independent tourists and residents but it's irrelevant to me why. It just is and I love it. 

Moving anywhere in Latin America would mean a drastic downgrade in access to excellent authentic Chinese food.

So to move from Pattaya to the places I'm looking at in Latin America would mean losing that Chinese thing that I really do love.

For most people, that would be a big nothing, but for me, it's really something, that would persuade me (irrationally or not) to be more likely continue to persist in staying in Thailand. 

I'm sure that lots of expats feel the same way about not wanting to give up Thai food living in Thailand. Obviously you can get decent Thai food (or even cook it yourself) in many places in the world, but I think in Latin America not very much. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Jingthing

[keemapoot]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Another thought on choosing expat countries, showing how personal these decisions can be.

As I said before I'm clear now that IF I was a virginal expat, I definitely would NOT be moving to Thailand and I definitely would be moving to Latin America.

But I'm not that.

Living in Pattaya, the situation with CHINESE FOOD continues to get better and better over time. The obvious reason is the increase in Chinese independent tourists and residents but it's irrelevant to me why. It just is and I love it. 

Moving anywhere in Latin America would mean a drastic downgrade in access to excellent authentic Chinese food.

So to move from Pattaya to the places I'm looking at in Latin America would mean losing that Chinese thing that I really do love.

For most people, that would be a big nothing, but for me, it's really something, that would persuade me (irrationally or not) to be more likely continue to persist in staying in Thailand. 

I'm sure that lots of expats feel the same way about not wanting to give up Thai food living in Thailand. Obviously you can get decent Thai food (or even cook it yourself) in many places in the world, but I think in Latin America not very much. 

For foodies or gourmands or whatever you call yourself if you love lots of diverse international foods, it will be difficult anywhere in LA to match what is on offer in Thailand, particularly at the prices offered. 

 

But, specifically in the LA countries and cities covered in this thread as attractive to retirees, I can't think of anyplace outside of Mexico City, Buenes Aires, Rio or Sao Paulo, that can possibly match what's on offer in the greater Bangkok/Chonburi region.

 

So, for people who love diverse global cuisine and also great Thai food, Thailand wins. We all know that on the wine scale, Thailand is a disaster, but those of us who know how to get good wines at reasonable prices, it's manageable. That discussion is on this forum also.

 

So, for foodies, I'm going to say good luck if you move to someplace in nowhere Ecuador or Colombia. Mexico City is different, both for its robust and sophisticated local cuisine and for international cuisine, but in my experience, outside of major cities, there is nothing to match what is on offer in Thailand.

[Jingthing]

Yes although I think I that foodwise more provincial Mexico would be much better than more provincial Colombia mainly because Mexican food in Mexico is so freakin' good. There are always pros and cons wherever you go. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Jingthing

[keemapoot]

Yes, Provincial Mexico is great. Provincial Colombia I can't comment on, but have been to Bogota several times and the cuisine is pretty much predictable though good. Mexico is wonderful and very different to all the Mexican varieties available in the States, though most of those are great too.

 

Brazil is a foodie paradise. Absolutely fantastic in Sao Paolo and Rio, many great places, and many global cuisines.

[sunnyboy2018]

On 9/3/2019 at 5:25 AM, Jingthing said:

On the question of learning Spanish in Thailand.

I am still only a beginner but I'm at a point now where when I listen to Spanish songs, I understand the majority of the words (they tend to use more common words in songs) if not the full meaning. That's fun. 

So by now I have invested considerable time and effort doing that. Sometimes it's fun when it goes well, and sometimes it's painful when there are struggles. But not actually speaking it with anyone here, which is something I really should start to do using one of the various online options for that.

Spanish in Thailand? May as well be Bulgarian in Botswana.

But is it?

Spanish behind English is one of the very most useful global languages. 

Others ones might be French, Russian, and Chinese, but I'm talking about Spanish here.

So if I never move to a Spanish speaking country (or even travel there) or a Latino area of the USA, will my efforts have been a total waste?

I really don't think so. 

Even in Thailand a person can enjoy their knowledge of Spanish through listening to music and watching t.v. shows and movies. 

I also consider it a good exercise for the brain, especially for the aging. 

But I am getting to something more serious now. Moving to Latin America is a huge life changing deal, especially for someone long settled in Thailand. 

There is a psychology of, well by now I can start to get by in Spanish, the time and effort investment has been made, so that's a strong reason to go ahead with the move. 

But it really isn't a good reason to move at all!

As far as actually moving, all it is is being better prepared for a Plan B should a Plan B actually be carried out. 

Go to the Valencia restaurant in Threpasit. Practise your Spanish There and enjoy Paella!

[keemapoot]

I should mention that for those who love Japanese cuisine, in all its forms, Brazil is fantastic, but particularly in Sao Paolo. There is a large and long-standing contingent of expats from Japan there and the cuisines are on a par with those in Japan in many cases.

 

 

[Muzarella]

By own experience.... South America it is a very good destination for expats looking for a relaxing life, buy only in small countryside towns.

Fun is always next door if looking for sex, not so easy like Thailand, but with the chance to finding REAL love and communication. Friendship is sincere with Latin people, not motivated by money.

Immigration and working rules are very friendly, and cost of living very low.

Not recommending at all to move to big cities, where safety is a concern.

If looking for a busy cultural life and the best food and drinks, Argentina #1.

Looking for fun, love, and beautiful women, Brazil #1.

Looking for everything, including nice weather and cheap connection with USA/Canada, Mexico #1

More recommendations?..send me a message.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Muzarella

[wreckingcountry]

Beautiful South America Latino girls there


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[ThaiBunny]

There's an interesting assessment of Central & South America from the perspective of people who want to leave in the latest Economist

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by ThaiBunny

[Jingthing]

Yes. More doom and gloom. Thanks a bunch. None of those worse situation countries are on many people's serious consideration for expatriation. Dominican Republic perhaps but nobody including me has recommended it here. There are some areas of Guatemala that attract a lot of expats. Lake Atitlan and Antigua but not on my radar.

 

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[CharlieH]

Off topic post and response removed.

 

If you have a tech issue/question please use the support forum  and not disrupt an ongoing thread.

[Jingthing]

Yet another "free" Spanish learning tool. (Optional donations.) Apparently it has an innovative approach. 

 

https://www.languagetransfer.org/free-courses-1#complete-spanish

 

Quote

Language Transfer: The Mind-Blowing Free Course That’s Greatly Improving My Spanish

 

http://panamaforbeginners.com/language-transfer/

[strikingsunset]

Colombia with Simon Reeve.

Would recommend the above documentary available on bbc iplayer ,so informative and features Medellin - often mentioned on this thread .


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[grifbel]

https://www.insightcrime.org/news/analysis/organized-crime-medellin-murders/

"Medellín Sees Murders Rise After Years of Declining Violence

Hillside gangs quick to settle scores have been blamed for an increase in killings in the Colombian city of Medellín, yet changes in the city’s underworld are behind the rising body count.

In 2018, Medellín tallied 626 homicides, a 7.6 percent increase from the prior year. Battles among criminal groups were responsible for more than half the murders, El Tiempo reported.

https://www.eltiempo.com/colombia/medellin/las-diez-bandas-detras-de-la-violencia-en-medellin-311768"

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by grifbel

[Jingthing]

https://www.insightcrime.org/news/analysis/organized-crime-medellin-murders/

"Medellín Sees Murders Rise After Years of Declining Violence

Hillside gangs quick to settle scores have been blamed for an increase in killings in the Colombian city of Medellín, yet changes in the city’s underworld are behind the rising body count.

In 2018, Medellín tallied 626 homicides, a 7.6 percent increase from the prior year. Battles among criminal groups were responsible for more than half the murders, El Tiempo reported.

https://www.eltiempo.com/colombia/medellin/las-diez-bandas-detras-de-la-violencia-en-medellin-311768"

 

Yes. Those articles are from January and February. Readers of this thread will know that negative news was already posted here and discussed.

 

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[seasia]

Hi

 

2 links to articles I found interesting and nicely written.

 

First is from an investment site,encouraging investment and visits to Medellin.

The article deals with safety aspects, seems quite well balanced to me

 

 

 

"Even if you have only just vaguely heard of Medellin in the past, you’ve undoubtedly heard something about the city in relation to violence, cocaine, Pablo Escobar, and things of that nature.

Those who have only ever heard of Medellin on the news have quite a different picture in their head about the city versus those who have visited in the last 10 years.

In 1991, Medellin was indeed a very dangerous place. With a homicide rate of more than 381 people per 100,000 residents, it was a homicide rate double that of the world’s current most violent city, San Pedro Sula, Honduras.

But Pablo Escobar has long since been dead and amazing strides have been made to turn this city from the world’s most violent into the world’s most innovative. All within about 20 years.

No one could argue that things aren’t better here. Nor could they argue that things are perfect here.

Talking about safety and violence in this city as it stands today is a tough subject. It invites criticism from both sides who will say I am either painting the city in a negative light by talking about crime or that I am looking at things with rose colored glasses and dismissing some of the real dangers.

It is also a difficult subject to address because the perception of safety differs from one person to another based on a person’s life experience, perspective, previous exposure to similar environments, etc.................."

 

From and full article @ https://www.lifeafarinvestments.com/medellin-safety-statistics/

 

2nd article is from an adventure site, covers, cycling, trailing, bird watching and more. Also travel safety.

Nicely written.

 

"Colombia boasts huge mountain ranges, large portions of the Amazon, and endless coastline and surf breaks. But can a country come back from a civil war to become a mecca for adventure?..........."

 

Long article       https://www.outsideonline.com/2399499/colombia-travel-safety-2019

[Odysseus123]

Hi Seasia,

 

I think that "re-locating" has a lot to do with age and level of fitness-possibly mental toughness as well.

Different strokes for different folks.

My friends have just pulled out after 10 years in Yucatan.They got totally fed up with the place and re-retired back to Kent!

[CaptainJack]

46 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Hi Seasia,

 

I think that "re-locating" has a lot to do with age and level of fitness-possibly mental toughness as well.

Different strokes for different folks.

My friends have just pulled out after 10 years in Yucatan.They got totally fed up with the place and re-retired back to Kent!

Odysseus123,

 

That is a very accurate statement.   I might add that as I enter my 6th month back in the USA,  even though there have been many costs to move back, mentally,  emotionally and financially,  I more everyday recognize that at 66 years old, when I moved to Thailand,  and after 9 months made the decision to abandon that path, now 67, I am steadily finding the challenges coming home easier.

 

What I had to do was trust my own instincts and look at what is involved moving to Latin America,  a non Spanish speaking American,  how well I felt I could navigate that flying solo, and what would be the risks to try another country,  and possibly decide it was not for me, at perhaps 70 plus years old.

 

I am on a slow and steady pace to have a decent life here in the USA,  albeit,  I will likely be alone the rest of my life.   That is truly how I feel.  But! Just going to the gym everyday,  I am making new male friends,  have reconnected with a few others,  and see a light at the end of the tunnel. 

 

I will likely continue to travel,  spending months at a time away from home in the USA,  but will not cut ties again.   

 

Ironically,  my physical,  financial,  mental and emotional endurance is up to the task to try retirement outside the USA again.  What is now the major consideration is my age and medical care.   The other is the instability in other countries governments.   

 

I will go to Colombia with my friend in a few months,  and return to SE Asia to visit and possibly do more volunteer work,  but risk restarting a life and foundation back home in the USA again? No. I've made a decision.  I don't want to go through this again in my 70's.  

 

I appreciate your comment.  It really resonates with me.

 

CJ

[Odysseus123]

Captain Jack-an excellent post and a pleasure talking to you sir!

 

I have been turning things over in my mind and this is what I have come up with..

I am a traveller but not an expat.

 

I lived for 4 years in London but always regarded myself as a colonial passing through and would,eventually,return to my home country.

 

Later on I lived for a year in Portugal for the sheer pleasure of the thing.

 

I worked in Melanesia,Indonesia and India and thoroughly enjoyed the experience but-yet again-it was a temporary sort of thing..

 

But the experience of being an expat and a "farang" on a full time basis was something else again and,over time,I did not like it at all.My roots were embedded too deep in my home country to entirely surrender to the whims of another country and it's cultural demands.I believe my friends in Yucatan probably came to a broadly similar conclusion.

 

To sum up-if I was physically capable of doing so I would travel again but I would never contemplate going back to being an expat.The financial/physical and emotional costs were far too high for me.

 

Have a great day!

 

Ody.

[Jingthing]

Yes these decisions are so specific to individuals. I liked that quote of being more of a traveler than an expat. Well I used to be passionate about traveling but at this point I'm more of an expat than a traveler.

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[CaptainJack]

35 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes these decisions are so specific to individuals. I liked that quote of being more of a traveler than an expat. Well I used to be passionate about traveling but at this point I'm more of an expat than a traveler.

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Jingthing, 

 

Life is definitely an adventure in self discovery and awareness.  Some of us are slow learner's (lol). Thank you for keeping this topic alive.......

 

CJ

[Odysseus123]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes these decisions are so specific to individuals. I liked that quote of being more of a traveler than an expat. Well I used to be passionate about traveling but at this point I'm more of an expat than a traveler.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I think that you are correct...

 

One is "a traveller to a strange land"

and an expat is "a stranger in a strange land"

 

That's my take on it,anyway.

[grifbel]

More bad news from real and credible sources.....gonna go ahead and cross this place off my list....

 

https://www.france24.com/en/20190829-ex-farc-leaders-ready-launch-new-offensive-against-government

https://www.wsj.com/articles/no-peace-in-our-time-in-colombia-11568674469

[Jingthing]

More bad news from real and credible sources.....gonna go ahead and cross this place off my list....

 

https://www.france24.com/en/20190829-ex-farc-leaders-ready-launch-new-offensive-against-government

https://www.wsj.com/articles/no-peace-in-our-time-in-colombia-11568674469

Was it ever really on your list? Honestly? Your link in the free part shows nothing new that hasn't already been posted here before about the FARC so called reactivation. As I doubt very many of us are WSJ subscribers and I assume you aren't either but if you are can you share with us a summary of the paywall part of the article? Maybe there is something new in that. Cheers.

 

 

 

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[Jingthing]

A small change in my thinking. The primary reason I had rejected Ecuador was the visa hassle especially coming from Thailand discussed multiple times before. But the change is that now the primary reason I am rejecting it is very high altitude. Of course not all of Ecuador is very high altitude but the place that seems by far the best there happens to be very high altitude Cuenca.

This reason is more pleasing to me but I've come by it sincerely. More pleasing because it wouldn't be so great to pass up a wonderful expat option only to avoid relatively short term hassles and expenses.

Similarly for Peru. Arequipa seems like the best place there for my purposes but it is also very high altitude. Though I have a larger list of cons for Arequipa and Peru in general so the visa part wasn't the main reason I had rejected it anyway.

Which yes still leaves Mexico and mainly Colombia as pretty much the only Latin American nations on my consideration list.

OK but Panama isn't completely eliminated either.

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[CaptainNemo]

Latin Americans defintely have an appeal

[Jingthing]

This is more general article but it includes some specific information/opinions about some specific Latin American nations. 

 

Such as getting legal Bolivia residency is expensive and difficult (I knew that already and rejected Bolivia).

 

That many people are moving to Colombia based mainly on expat puff pieces without looking deeper into it, particularly rising crime rates. But my research is showing some smaller cities in Colombia have less of a problem with that than the biggest cities of Bogota and  Medellin.

 

Quote

Common problems faced by new expats: Experts say do your research to avoid major mistakes

https://cuencahighlife.com/common-problems-faced-by-new-expats-experts-say-do-your-research-to-avoid-major-mistakes/

Edited September 19, 2019 by Jingthing

[olfu]

I should add from my experience-- reading internet is useless if you never try evaluate main things like your age, your tolerance for crime, your finances, public transportation, cost of living, government etc.

My point is--rent before you buy.

I visited Lima, Peru--nobody bothered me but everything chaotic.

Panama--no public transportation from airport so it feels like stone age.

Thailand--no complains even if it takes me two days to fly from US.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

On 3/4/2019 at 3:38 PM, Jingthing said:

Please, for obvious reasons, this topic can't be focused on sex tourism or sexpats.

Forgive me, I think the above is not realistic. Full disclosure, I've been posting on this forum under various guises since the IT Manager days (dirty word, I know). My original membership number was in the few hundreds. Me, like many early forum members quickly realised, some of us the hard way, that this is not the place to give up one's anonymity without careful thought. I took a break from this forum for over ten years, now I'm back, because I find the electrical forum interesting. I work very late on a daily basis, occasionally while I'm downing a cold one in my office I'll look for a distraction and get sucked into the silliness over here. As I'm quite sure you know, the actual poster count here is remarkeably low, all things considered, and the thoughtful poster count even lower. I'm an IT guy, so I spend a lot of time on Cisco, Ubiquiti, Mikrotik customer forums, places like that. That's where I put my thought. TV is where I have my beer, and only because I'm stuck in the stew like the rest of us. The point I'm making is, I don't come here for intelligent conversation, I come here expecting to be trolled by bored whorists, but I appreciate it when when someone's head pops above the chaff, so thanks for the interesting read.

 

As a near direct result of TM30, I'm looking at options to uproot my family and move on, the sheer stupidity, it's just gone too far. I'm not some sex pest on an extended vacation, I have a lot invested in Thailand and my Thai family, emotionally, financially, whatever, so it's not something to be taken lightly and if we move on Thailand will be losing a family of hard working professionals. We'll see what happens but I'm looking at Australia and New Zealand, but I'm already familiar with those countries. Latin America is somewhere I've never been, so although middle aged, I still have a sense of adventure. I'm following this topic. Costa Rica is interesting, but I'm nowhere near retirement age. Opportunities are a must. I'm a family man, so whoring is not a priority.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by NilSS