Questionable Gay Charity?

[bkkguy1970]

http://www.pridefestival.org/ has been up and running for more than a year

I was not going to get drawn into this either but you are just being disingenuous with your throwing around of "facts" here

the domain name was first registered 9 March 2006 (check from whois data if you don't believe me), and today is 6 march 2007 so the web site has obviously not been up for "more than a year"!

and the current single page place holder on the bravenet server has only been there a short time and has no useful information - indeed a real web site with any useful information has not been available since before the AGM and detailed financial statements have never been posted on the web site and more than the three line summary has never been widely distributed - and I defy you to find anyone on the committee that would be willing to stand up and publicly state otherwise.

somehow I don't you are the one to be telling others to get their facts right before posting!

and yes every transaction listed by JoJo is in the copy of the detailed accounts I have seen, though I would not necessarily draw the same conclusions from them that JoJo seems to have, but there are plenty of other transactions in the accounts that would attract criticism of naivety at best and unacceptable practice for a western fund-raising organisation at worst

and no - Pride Festival is not the charity, Bangkok Pride Coalition has always existed to raise funds to be donated to other organisations and while last year's committee may have changed the name they still took over the BPC funds and resources and until they publicly and definitively state a change of purpose then I think they should be doing a significantly better job of keeping their expenses down, accounting for their performance and supporting the organisations and charities they are supposed to be supporting

and as a person who has financially supported their events in the past I think I have every right to make such comments and do not need to volunteer to work for them to earn that right!

bkkguy

[jdinasia]

http://www.pridefestival.org/ has been up and running for more than a year

I was not going to get drawn into this either but you are just being disingenuous with your throwing around of "facts" here

the domain name was first registered 9 March 2006 (check from whois data if you don't believe me), and today is 6 march 2007 so the web site has obviously not been up for "more than a year"!

and the current single page place holder on the bravenet server has only been there a short time and has no useful information - indeed a real web site with any useful information has not been available since before the AGM and detailed financial statements have never been posted on the web site and more than the three line summary has never been widely distributed - and I defy you to find anyone on the committee that would be willing to stand up and publicly state otherwise.

somehow I don't you are the one to be telling others to get their facts right before posting!

and yes every transaction listed by JoJo is in the copy of the detailed accounts I have seen, though I would not necessarily draw the same conclusions from them that JoJo seems to have, but there are plenty of other transactions in the accounts that would attract criticism of naivety at best and unacceptable practice for a western fund-raising organisation at worst

and no - Pride Festival is not the charity, Bangkok Pride Coalition has always existed to raise funds to be donated to other organisations and while last year's committee may have changed the name they still took over the BPC funds and resources and until they publicly and definitively state a change of purpose then I think they should be doing a significantly better job of keeping their expenses down, accounting for their performance and supporting the organisations and charities they are supposed to be supporting

and as a person who has financially supported their events in the past I think I have every right to make such comments and do not need to volunteer to work for them to earn that right!

bkkguy

OMG I missed by 3 days! But so far .... facts are rather sparse and yes there was a site up before this one ... and there was more info before this on the current site ... guess they are starting for next year ... but 363 days is far more than 1 day

The Org seems to have managed to pull off last year's events for less than 10K including the park ... the parade etc .... and donated the rest out ... but donating to them would seem to mean to me that you want the events to happen. That last year was bigger than in the past would show that they have done more than the former group.

Ooppps Bangkok isn't "The West"?

Nice ... first the website has been up for more than 1 year<<<<Correction ----- 3 days less than one year ... but they had a website before!>>>>> and I have already said that I am not involved ... but a great cop-out in the end for you! <<remember ... I am not a participant ... i live in PHUKET! ... I just happen to know some of the people that ARE involved. I am not defending them here ... because they don't NEED to be defended... so far it is shallow accusations and nothing more! likely by someone with an axe to grind >>

Edited March 6, 2007 by jdinasia

[bkkguy1970]

OMG I missed by 3 days! But so far .... facts are rather sparse and yes there was a site up before this one ... and there was more info before this on the current site ... guess they are starting for next year ... but 363 days is far more than 1 day

your throw-away comments about pride having a web site were in reply to comparisons to the PGF web site - which has been running continuously at the same URL for almost 6 years, and has 5 years of financial information - and the failure of the pride committee the provide financial or other info on their web site, and your dismissive comments here do nothing to address that, and neither do the temporary web "sites" that the organisation has been using since the AGM - indeed the AGM announcement and the AGM report were never published on the web "site", they were only distributed by email

The Org seems to have managed to pull off last year's events for less than 10K including the park ... the parade etc .... and donated the rest out ...

from the financial statements, the total revenue from all fundraising events (inc the park, parade etc) was 251,405 Baht, the total expenses for fundraising events (inc the park, parade etc) was 244,690 Baht leaving as you say about 10,000 Baht - hardly a good result for "fundraising"

or did you have some other creating accounting calculation to justify your throw-away remark about "pulling off the events for less than 10K"?

also from the financial statements, the total revenue from sponsorships was 349,760 and total marketing and admin expenses were 158,105 Baht leaving about 190,000 for donation to charity (or at least they was what was done in the past) - though this may now not be done, the money may be kept on hand as part of the requirements for setting up a registered organisation!

Ooppps Bangkok isn't "The West"?

if pride festival or whatever they finally name themselves do not want to be held to western standards of accountability and transparency for fundraising and charities then I am sure they will not be surprised or concerned when western visitors and expats no longer support their activities, and I for one will be quite happy to leave them to their "Thai ways"

bkkguy

[bibendum]

It seems to me that jdinasia's only function here is to muddy the waters and create more confusion. Actions like his make me wonder about his motives: does he have anything to hide or is he trying to protect someone? All the more reason for the full accounts to be published as soon as possible.

The first poster (mjthai007) on this thread quotes:

…. Over 600,000 baht was raised via, sponsor fee, donations, fund raisers and other various events. The expenses for running pride, park and parade was a little over 400,000 baht, and so far over 200,000 baht has been donated to charity. The final selection for charity donation will be voted on at the next meeting.

Bkkguy1970 now writes:

…….also from the financial statements, the total revenue from sponsorships was 349,760 and total marketing and admin expenses were 158,105 Baht leaving about 190,000 for donation to charity (or at least they was what was done in the past) - though this may now not be done, the money may be kept on hand as part of the requirements for setting up a registered organisation!

Since bkkguy1970 has access to the accounts please can he explain about the donations? I remember seeing early last year photos of a donation ceremony when a large sum was given to an Aids hospice. Obviously that money could not have been collected by Pride Festival 2006 since they had not started their fundraising campaign at that time. Is this part of the 200,000 baht charity donation referred to by mjthai007?

If it is, it seems to me that there is some deception taking place since the money donated to the hospice was collected in 2005 by Bangkok Pride but Pride Festival 2006 are trying to claim credit for this. If I am correct, what is happening to the balance of funds from Pride Festival 2006 and why is it not being donated to charity?

[bkkguy1970]

the accounts are available, just ask last year's treasurer for a copy, or obviously jdinasia has some details and others here seem to imply that have them as well so ask them

the accounts show an opening balance of 254,147 Baht which was rolled over from Bangkok Pride 2005

the pride 2005 committee as far as I know recommended that 150,000 be donated to Alden House and 104,147 to be available for Pride 2006 to get started with which was fairly consistent with previous years

according to the accounts 150,000 was indeed given to Alden house in May

according to the accounts during the year Pride 2006 donated 30,000 to support the Bangkok Gay Media Awards (they also received support in 2005), and 30,000 to the Transgender Legal Fund

the remaining 44,147 from the opening balance and the 198,370 net gain for the year (601,165 - 402,795) results in a closing balance of 242,517

as I understand it both the 2006 committee and the 2007 committee have indicated that these funds may be kept on hand as a bank balance of this size is required as part of the process to register as a non-profit organisation

the accounts do add up, though some of the expenses, the way some of the expenses are reported, and the overall performance as a "fundraiser organisation" would probably raise some eyebrows in the west, but there is no suggestion of deception, and I am sure a good case can be made for forming a non-profit to run pride in the future

however pride in bangkok does seem to just lurch from committee to committee year to year without progressing very far up the professionalism scale (admittedly by western standards), and last year was a very bad year for communications and I don't think pride's case is helped much by jdinasia's glib and disingenuous comments!

bkkguy

[pop3]

Why does somebody come here and want to get into charity so quickly ?

Edited March 6, 2007 by pop3

[jjonjj]

Thanks for the link, and yes the 'accounts' are very interesting! It looks like everybody was 'very' well fed!

I can now understand why some of the posters are trying to defend their 'friends'.

I have just been reading about Thai teenagers use of condoms, only 20% are using them, while upwards of 40% in most 'developed' countries!

Maybe the money spent on food for the 'volunteers' could be used to promote condom use or buy condoms to give to young people (cost being one of the issues!). And maybe the restaurants who supplied the 'meals'( bug & bee and @richards) could give some of their profit back!

[Scott]

I worked for a charitable organization for many, many years a long time ago. I almost never give money to charity here in Thailand because of the lack of accountability. In most Western Countries they have standards that must be met to remain a charitable, non-profit organization. This has to do with how much money they expend and to whom.

Fund raising events are particularly difficult to host because the kind of people that you want to attract--the well-to-do--like nice things. You have to have an expensive extravaganza or they don't show up.

If you look at a lot of those Hollywood fund raisers, they appear very hypocritical. I mean serving caviar to raise funds for starving orphans in Darfur! But that's what it takes.

Be a little kind to those in charge. It's a hard, thankless job. Do your part, try to help out but keep the end goals in site and be willing to compromise in the meantime.

[ILoveThaivisa]

I worked for a charitable organization for many, many years a long time ago. I almost never give money to charity here in Thailand because of the lack of accountability. In most Western Countries they have standards that must be met to remain a charitable, non-profit organization. This has to do with how much money they expend and to whom.

Fund raising events are particularly difficult to host because the kind of people that you want to attract--the well-to-do--like nice things. You have to have an expensive extravaganza or they don't show up.

If you look at a lot of those Hollywood fund raisers, they appear very hypocritical. I mean serving caviar to raise funds for starving orphans in Darfur! But that's what it takes.

Be a little kind to those in charge. It's a hard, thankless job. Do your part, try to help out but keep the end goals in site and be willing to compromise in the meantime.

Thanks for that post Scott. I think you've made some very valid points. And the particular organization being discussed here, Bangkok Pride Festival, should be congratulated for having made significant advances in 2006 from the past. I understand that in the past, Bangkok Gay Pride was mainly driven by the farang owners of gay pubs. From what I've read, the planning organization for the parade and the Pride in the Park changed from the past to be a majority Thai committee in 2006. This is all to the good because, after all, we are in Thailand.

I was not able to attend the parade and Pride in the Park last year but I've heard that it was the most successful ones to date. Unfortunately, we have a few individuals on this forum who love to criticize (in multiple posts) the volunteers who gave many hours of their time to the gay pride cause. Not one of those who criticized the committee on this forum has said anything like, "I'm not happy with the way Pride Festival was run last year and this year I'm going to volunteer for the committee and help to change their directions." It's like in a democracy, if you gripe all the time but don't vote, you don't influence the situation.

[jdinasia]

OMG I missed by 3 days! But so far .... facts are rather sparse and yes there was a site up before this one ... and there was more info before this on the current site ... guess they are starting for next year ... but 363 days is far more than 1 day

your throw-away comments about pride having a web site were in reply to comparisons to the PGF web site - which has been running continuously at the same URL for almost 6 years, and has 5 years of financial information - and the failure of the pride committee the provide financial or other info on their web site, and your dismissive comments here do nothing to address that, and neither do the temporary web "sites" that the organisation has been using since the AGM - indeed the AGM announcement and the AGM report were never published on the web "site", they were only distributed by email

The Org seems to have managed to pull off last year's events for less than 10K including the park ... the parade etc .... and donated the rest out ...

from the financial statements, the total revenue from all fundraising events (inc the park, parade etc) was 251,405 Baht, the total expenses for fundraising events (inc the park, parade etc) was 244,690 Baht leaving as you say about 10,000 Baht - hardly a good result for "fundraising"

or did you have some other creating accounting calculation to justify your throw-away remark about "pulling off the events for less than 10K"?

also from the financial statements, the total revenue from sponsorships was 349,760 and total marketing and admin expenses were 158,105 Baht leaving about 190,000 for donation to charity (or at least they was what was done in the past) - though this may now not be done, the money may be kept on hand as part of the requirements for setting up a registered organisation!

Ooppps Bangkok isn't "The West"?

if pride festival or whatever they finally name themselves do not want to be held to western standards of accountability and transparency for fundraising and charities then I am sure they will not be surprised or concerned when western visitors and expats no longer support their activities, and I for one will be quite happy to leave them to their "Thai ways"

bkkguy

Sorry ... the I was thinking USD when I wrote 10K ....

and I am sure they won't be concerned when you are not there "99%" though the idea of you speaking for western tourists and other ex-pats is silly

and to Bibendum --- I have said repeatedly ... I don't have any info to give you Was not involved in Pride (as I live in Phuket) etc .... I have no close friends in the Pride org though I do know several people involved. They don't need defending But whining without being involved and suggesting that there is something to hide smacks of having a personal axe to grind:)

[undercover]

Creaming off charity is the norm here, it's many farangs only income. Asking questions will only get replys like, how do you know ? you can't proove nothing, our charity is certainly not corrupt, our good work is documented.

mabe so but there has been more than one occation I have seen when a guy living here on a small budget and having very little suddenly seems to doing very well once he gets involved in some charity work,

................................................................................

..........................................

I'm not commenting on the particular charity in the OP, as I wouldn't know anything about it, but I find your statement offensive, undercover, particularly the part I have highlighted.

You may know of certain instances where this has been the case, and I certainly wouldn't dispute that. I'm sure it does happen. But to generalise & say "it's the norm" or "it's many farang's only income" is not only wrong & inaccurate, it's damaging for genuine non-profit orgs.

I have run a non-profit org for the last three & a half years, along with my mother. I have never taken a satang from it (neither has she, obviously) & we have put a lot of our own money into it, to the extent that she has now gone to work in HK to support my son & I so I can carry on with our work. I live in a tiny 2 bedroomed bungalow with over 30 dogs (the org is a dog rescue center - the sick dogs & pups live with me) & have had to cut my life back to absolute basics to get by. I never get a day off, I never take holidays (once every 15 months back to UK to get my visa & then back again within the week!) & I can't remember the last time I went out. So, please, don't tar everyone with the same brush...

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Creaming off is the norm, many farangs only income, Yes I must stand by these words I wrote before,

I hear what your saying November rain and you sound like someone very sincere and you sound like your doing an excelent and admirable job. the world needs people like you, good luck and all the best helping these poor dogs, I admit there must be honest truthful compassionate people helping others with charity, but I believe and Im only talking of Pattaya, that people like you are a minority.

A few years ago when I had lots of spare time I decided I would like to get involved with some charity work, charitys are always asking for people to help out so I aproached a few , to my surprize I was told yes thank you for your enquiry we have your number and we will get back to you soon, I have two other friends who I later found out were told the same sort of thing, thinking this strange I started to dig a bit deeper and found out that most of these charitys in pattaya are by invertation only, they won't tell you this of corse, but they are like freemasons, now why is this ? they are all friends of friends, and once in moove up the charity ladder.

Charity will always be suspect but here in pattaya I stand by my original statment.

[PoliticallyCorrect]

...... I think you've made some very valid points. And the particular organization being discussed here, Bangkok Pride Festival, should be congratulated for having made significant advances in 2006 from the past. I understand that in the past, Bangkok Gay Pride was mainly driven by the farang owners of gay pubs. From what I've read, the planning organization for the parade and the Pride in the Park changed from the past to be a majority Thai committee in 2006. This is all to the good because, after all, we are in Thailand.

IloveThaivisa has a convincing line of reasoning. I have been looking at the old photos of the Bangkok Pride Parade on dreadedned.com and compared them to last year's Pride Festival parade photos.

In the several bad old years before Pride Festival there were the same old faces every year showing up and giving their continuous support: Utopia, Telephone, Balcony, Sphinx, Dicks, Tarntawan, Long Yang Crub, Cutey & Beauty etc.

Now under the new leadership there are still the OLD faces showing their continuous support but lots of newbies: Fresh Beach Boys, X Boys, Bonny Massage, X Size Boys, Jupiter Boys, etc.

It's heart warming to see the new committee getting the traditional side of Gay life in Thailand more involved.

[PrideFestival]

There have been a number of requests on this forum for information about the operations and finances of the Bangkok Pride Festival Organization (PFO) for 2006.

As PFO is a community based organization, it is accountable to the community at large. While the Pride Committee is comprised of volunteers who contribute their own time and energy for the objectives of PFO, it welcomes both criticisms and praises when due. However, there seemed to be some confusion and misunderstanding here that warrants clarification.

During the discussions on this forum, comparisons have been made between PFO and Pattaya Gay Festival. There are some similarities between the two organizations but there are also major differences between the two. The main difference is that for the last two years, Pattaya authorities have not permitted a parade. As a result, the Pattaya Gay Festival committee decided to go the fund raising route with a series of events throughout the year. The Pattaya Gay Festival's current mission statement reads, "We are in Pattaya Thailand because we love here and have great fun, but along the way, we like to help many others." (This is from their web site.)

On the other hand, the focus of PFO is the yearly Gay Pride Parade and related activities. Fundraising for charities is a secondary objective of PFO. This was last stated in our August 31, 2006 press release, 'Bangkok Together 2006' Strives to 'Unite Community' with annual Pride Festival. The entire press release will soon be included on our 2007 web site, which you can locate in Google or other search engine by searching on the following phrase: "Bangkok Pride Festival"

The main body of the press release gives the major objectives of the PFO but does not mention fundraising for charities at all. However, a note at the bottom of the page describes the organization that runs the Pride Festival and includes mention in the last sentence of raising money for needy Thai charities.

Here are the objectives of PFO as stated in the body of the press release:

Bangkok Together 2006 strives to engender a sense of community amongst the GLBT population in Thailand, and to empower everyone with a stronger sense of pride. The festival has launched an integrated marketing campaign to reach out to the Thai GLBT community using such headlines as (English translations) "Join Hands, Join Hearts in Pride," "United in Community for Pride," and "Experience Friendship and Creativity with Pride."

Here's the section from the bottom of the press release describing the PFO:

About Pride Festival Organization (PFO): The Pride Festival activities in Bangkok are organized by a committee of volunteers who have been selected by the community. PFO operates as a not-for-profit entity to produce entertainment, education and informational events to promote a positive image of the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community in Thailand, and to raise money for needy Thai charities, particularly those serving the GLBT community.

As you can see from the above, there are currently major differences in the objectives between Pride in Pattaya and Pride in Bangkok. These differences account for the differences between the two organizations in both the way they operate and in the way they receive and disburse money. Thus, it is difficult to make comparisons between the financial performance of the two organizations to determine which is more "efficient". For Pattaya, their main objective is raising money for charities. For Bangkok, our main objective is raising money for the Pride parade and related events such as Pride in the Park. Thus, one cannot look at our financial statements to determine a ratio between our expenses (for the parade, etc.) and our contributions to charities. It's like comparing "apples to oranges".

There are of course valid ways of measuring our performance. One is to look at our expenditures. Another concern raised in this forum was in regards to our expenditures for meals for our volunteers during planning sessions. One poster even went so far as to call our meals "lavish dinners".

Our discussion on whether to cover meals (at cost) for our over 20 volunteers centered around the fact that our committee members come from a very diverse financial backgrounds. Also, with the amount of preparations required for PFO, the committee has spent a lot of time together, usually after work. Thus, we decided that we should cover the meals (at cost) for our meetings so as to encourage the broadest range of people from the gay community to participate in the planning of Pride Festival 2006. The meals were approximately 60 baht (at cost) per person. (Please note that at the restaurants that served the committee, an average non-alcoholic beverage would have cost over 60 baht.) There was a comment on this forum that meals could be obtained for less but we felt that we needed a suitable environment for our planning sessions. And we genuinely believed that spending 60 baht a meal per person was a reasonably prudent amount. Additionally, on the 4th and 5th of November for the Pride in the Park and Parade, water was also catered for the volunteers and marching band, totaling over 100 persons, also at wholesale cost.

The restaurants mentioned by the posters were active volunteers on the PFO Committee, and also donated cash as sponsors. There was really no need for any of them to turn around and try to profit from all the efforts at PFO.

As our financial information will show when it is put on our website, a significant part of the expenses went to outreach for the broad GLBT community and funding for an official float during the Parade. The Committee struggled over several meetings before deciding to go ahead with the float. The rationale of the float was to achieve our primary objectives. It was important that the Parade not be merely a number of commercial floats but actually had one to set the right tone and spirit of Pride Festival -- to raise a stronger sense of pride within the GLBT community. There were questions that an official float costing about 60,000 baht was excessive. The committee actually reviewed three proposals, costing 110,000, 90,000 and 60,000. We selected not just the least cost proposal but also the one that seemed to achieve our primary objectives the best.

A significant impact on our financial statements is that the Pride 2006 Committee recommended that Pride Festival be registered as a Non-Profit Organization or Foundation. Under the law, we are required to have over 200,000 baht for that purpose. Thus, we are holding 200,000 baht in our bank account for that purpose. The major reason for our wanting to be registered is that this would permit us to add mainstream sponsors such as airlines, global beverage brands, automobiles, etc. Also, as a foundation, we would have complete financial accountability that the Revenue Department, in addition to the GLBT community at large, can audit.

There was criticism on this forum that PFO is not "open" about its finances. That is actually not the case. A meeting was held for sponsors and direct donors and detailed financial information for 2006 was passed out. In addition, following past practices, two of our sponsors but non-committee members, O Ho Restaurant and Om Yim Lodge, did an independent audit of our finances at our request and found no problems. Any other sponsors and direct donors may also do an audit.

In addition, we will be including detailed financial information on our 2007 web site. Unfortunately, we are behind schedule in bringing the 2007 web site on line because of the delay in finding a new volunteer webmaster. On March 5, a new volunteer webmaster joined us and one of his top priorities will be to put the financial information on the web site.

There was a question on this forum about our current web site having only the date of this year's Pride Parade and an ad for a webmaster and no 2006 information. The problem is that one of our sponsors, who had donated website hosting, did not renew for 2007 and we had to move temporarily to a free web hosting company, which cannot support for free the amount of traffic we have.

The PFO Committee is well aware of the need to improve both the website and communications in general. We are adding volunteers to improve on both fronts for 2007.

While financial achievement is one measure of the PFO performance, I would like to summarize how 2006 has progressed towards our stated primary objectives of bringing awareness and pride to the community.

In the 2006 parade, we had over 20 floats, including for the first time in many years, several from NGO's, lesbian groups, and a contingent from Japan.

This year, we had sponsorships and donations from over 30 businesses, including many Thai GLBT businesses, as well as several women's clubs and mainstream brands that have never participated in Pride in the past. We have also received support from 30 NGO's and media partners. And our Annual General Meeting was hosted by Human Rights Commission of Thailand. The Rainbow Health Fair in the park included both local and international NGO's as well as relevant ministries in the government. Our sporting events enjoyed record numbers of participants, including GLBT teams from Beijing and Hong Kong, as well as local mainstream teams competing together.

As our outreach program, we have distributed tens of thousands of brochures, post cards and posters, in not only GLBT businesses but also mainstream shopping malls and outlets.

We held two well-attended media conferences, and as a result, we were covered by a couple of TV programs, and over 30 print articles on Thai, English, and even Japanese mainstream newspapers, magazines and websites, in addition to the extensive support by GLBT media. One very promising development for future fundraising included one TV story and several print articles about the opportunity for mainstream brands to advertise targeting the GLBT market segment – a relatively new marketing concept for Thai businesses.

We believe the 2006 achievements are merely small but positive inroads towards our objectives, with a great deal more work to be done in building a positive image, mutual respect and acceptance of GLBT community by its own members as well as by the general public in Thailand.

I've read carefully all the posts on this forum about Bangkok Pride. I think I've addressed here all the concerns and suggestions contained in those posts. For ongoing comments and suggestions throughout the year, we will have a feedback feature on our 2007 web site for you to communicate with us directly. Also, I hope the information I have given here will encourage some of you to join the committee and to help us plan for a bigger and better Pride Festival 2007.

Tony King

Pride Festival Committee

[jdinasia]

guess that should pretty well end THIS lot of silliness

[bibendum]

For Pattaya, their main objective is raising money for charities. For Bangkok, our main objective is raising money for the Pride parade and related events such as Pride in the Park. Thus, one cannot look at our financial statements to determine a ratio between our expenses (for the parade, etc.) and our contributions to charities. It's like comparing "apples to oranges".

So what you are telling us is:

If we want to give to charity, assist Aids victims and help prevent the spread of Aids then we should support Pattaya Gay Festival.

If we want to contribute to an organization whose prime aim is to promote its self by throwing a fancy-dress party; give to Pride Festival.

I know where my money is going.

[jdinasia]

For Pattaya, their main objective is raising money for charities. For Bangkok, our main objective is raising money for the Pride parade and related events such as Pride in the Park. Thus, one cannot look at our financial statements to determine a ratio between our expenses (for the parade, etc.) and our contributions to charities. It's like comparing "apples to oranges".

So what you are telling us is:

If we want to give to charity, assist Aids victims and help prevent the spread of Aids then we should support Pattaya Gay Festival.

If we want to contribute to an organization whose prime aim is to promote its self by throwing a fancy-dress party; give to Pride Festival.

I know where my money is going.

55555555! I only THOUGHT the silliness was over! Right ... Gay Pride traditionally has been about raising awareness and not raising funds! look all over the world for that! But somehow I think that Pattaya might be a better fit for many people than BKK! An empowered gay community with knowledge and political clout would not serve the sex-tourists or the sex-pats of BKK. It WOULD serve the gay Thai people and the residents of BKK that have bothered to connect at all with the LOCAL gay scene, and thus is good ... and in the long run when gay rights ever really become an issue here, well having a structure in place to do some good would be nice

But yes ... Bibendum ... if you want to give money to an org like PGF and let them pass it out to others then do so! It is a good thing to show people that the Pattaya people as a group have a bit of financial clout (but of course the powers that be may just assume that most of the $$ comes from tourists), however, being an adult I choose the groups I wish to give money and assistance to on my own I don't need an umbrella group to do it for me!

[InTheKnow]

For ongoing comments and suggestions throughout the year, we will have a feedback feature on our 2007 web site for you to communicate with us directly.

There was a feedback forum on the 2006 website controlled by the web master (Khun Nit). People sent messages, they were checked and if approved by the web master then published. He 'moderated' and filtered the messages to such an extent that the forum turned into an advertising billboard for the committee members businesses. Only messages about Long Yang Club; @Richards Pub and Thai Puan Magazine were permitted.

Long Yang Club was represented on the committee by Mr. Richard.

Thai Puan was represented on the committee by Mr. Jim (the treasurer)

Both of the above are the owners of @Richards Pub.

The web master (Khun Nit) was the boyfriend of Khun Sak.

Khun Sak is the manager of @Richards Pub.

An incestuous and profitable advertising relationship if ever there was!

Can we be assured that committee members will be required to "Fully Disclose Interests" this year and also, will the feedback feature be run in the public eye, impartially and responsibly?

[jdinasia]

For ongoing comments and suggestions throughout the year, we will have a feedback feature on our 2007 web site for you to communicate with us directly.

There was a feedback forum on the 2006 website controlled by the web master (Khun Nit). People sent messages, they were checked and if approved by the web master then published. He 'moderated' and filtered the messages to such an extent that the forum turned into an advertising billboard for the committee members businesses. Only messages about Long Yang Club; @Richards Pub and Thai Puan Magazine were permitted.

Long Yang Club was represented on the committee by Mr. Richard.

Thai Puan was represented on the committee by Mr. Jim (the treasurer)

Both of the above are the owners of @Richards Pub.

The web master (Khun Nit) was the boyfriend of Khun Sak.

Khun Sak is the manager of @Richards Pub.

An incestuous and profitable advertising relationship if ever there was!

Can we be assured that committee members will be required to "Fully Disclose Interests" this year and also, will the feedback feature be run in the public eye, impartially and responsibly?

another brand new member .... making odd assertions? Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

<but like I said I only THOUGHT the silliness was over! ... I wonder if any of these new posters post from the exact same IP addresses?>

Edited March 12, 2007 by jdinasia

[popshirt]

For ongoing comments and suggestions throughout the year, we will have a feedback feature on our 2007 web site for you to communicate with us directly.

There was a feedback forum on the 2006 website controlled by the web master (Khun Nit). People sent messages, they were checked and if approved by the web master then published. He 'moderated' and filtered the messages to such an extent that the forum turned into an advertising billboard for the committee members businesses. Only messages about Long Yang Club; @Richards Pub and Thai Puan Magazine were permitted.

Long Yang Club was represented on the committee by Mr. Richard.

Thai Puan was represented on the committee by Mr. Jim (the treasurer)

Both of the above are the owners of @Richards Pub.

The web master (Khun Nit) was the boyfriend of Khun Sak.

Khun Sak is the manager of @Richards Pub.

An incestuous and profitable advertising relationship if ever there was!

Can we be assured that committee members will be required to "Fully Disclose Interests" this year and also, will the feedback feature be run in the public eye, impartially and responsibly?

another brand new member .... making odd assertions? Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

<but like I said I only THOUGHT the silliness was over! ... I wonder if any of these new posters post from the exact same IP addresses?>

These accusatory posts are beyond ridiculous now. It is time to end this poisonous innuendo. It is so reminiscent of malicious persons who have destroyed gay oranizations in the US by creating an atmosphere of suspicion and mistrust simply because they have an axe to grind (think Telephone Bar) or had an unhappy childhood or whatever. Move on gurrrrlllls, get a life.

[endure]

Ok - everyone has had a chance to have their say so I'm going to close this thread now. It will be quite interesting to see whether those members who appear to have joined simply to take part in this thread are going to continue to contribute to this forum or whether they are going to disappear into the night. If they do decide to contribute further might I ask them to read both the general forum rules and the 'Read this first' at the head of this forum.