21 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

All that doesn’t change that Brexiteers are scared of another referendum because they know that you can only lie to the people once.

Not scared at all. So what is the point of having a referendum and not acting upon it and having another referendum. Absolutely no point at all.

 

Why can't you just accept the referendum result, behave like an adult and vote in the next GE for a candidate that represents your ideology, instead of having a 'hissy fit'

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1068271/brexit-news-eu-uk-referendum-2016-leave-remain-campaign-spt

“You fired off a great deal of ammunition in the run-up to June 23, and most of it turned out to be dud.

“You told us that British immigration officers would be thrown out of France, and that we’d have migration camps in Kent.

“In fact, within two weeks of the vote, the French government confirmed that the old arrangement would remain in place

“You told us that there would be an emergency budget.

“Within days of the poll, the idea was dropped.

“You told us that we would be £4,300 worse off per family, a figure that no one now tries to defend.

“You told us that our stock market would collapse. In fact, British stocks are, at the time of writing, the best performing in Europe.”

 

 

After reading your rants though we would have to bring back screaming Lord Sutch from the Grave.????

 

 

11 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The one doesn’t exclude the other. 

 

Deflect as you like; it doesn’t change that Brexiteers are scared of another referendum. 

Some argue that if there was to be another vote, 'Remain' should not appear on the ballot paper and it should be a straight choice between a Brexit deal and leaving the EU with no deal.

It seems to me another referendum vote process would go in reverse and still get nowhere.

Just now, Laughing Gravy said:

After reading your rants though we would have to bring back screaming Lord Sutch from the Grave.????

Yeah I backed him on turning channel tunnel into a supergun needed more than ever now IMO. ????

Just now, Benroon said:

Where's your NHS bus parked nowadays ?

Oh dear are you using that tiresome plug. It is parked up with all of George Osbourne predictions.

I expect better responses than that. Supposedly remainers are more intelligent and we leavers, are stupid.

 

You will be telling me next that the moon is made of cheese.

 

1 minute ago, Benroon said:

You started it

 

But if you don't know just say

Don't know what? You still going on about a bus that had some words on that insinuated that if we left the EU we could use it to fund the NHS.

Edited March 18, 20197 yr by Laughing Gravy

9 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Where's your NHS bus parked nowadays ?

If you really want to know, it is back on the streets promoting a new drama for Benedict Cumberbatch. You can't keep a good bus down.

 

 

46 minutes ago, vogie said:

It's not a case of Brexiteers being scared of another referendum, it's more a case of the remainers being scared of not getting one. 

Not ordinary remainers (who are convinced that remain would win if there was another referendum- they believe the polls - with which they agree) just MPs!

 

MPs are far more wary of opinion polls nowadays, and even more wary of losing their 'seats' at the next GE.

Edited March 18, 20197 yr by dick dasterdly

57 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

All that doesn’t change that Brexiteers are scared of another referendum because they know that you can only lie to the people once. Now as their house of cards has folded, they know people would say fxxx off (to cite that YouTube video Brexiteers seem to like so much). 

To be fair, I have to admit that I love the fxxx off video ????.

47 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The one doesn’t exclude the other. 

 

Deflect as you like; it doesn’t change that Brexiteers are scared of another referendum. 

As long as MPs are scared of another referendum, I personally am not scared.

 

But then again it depends on the options.

 

e.g..:-

1) remain

2) accept may and the eu's deal

 

would not appeal!

 

Apparently it works for MPs though....

Edited March 18, 20197 yr by dick dasterdly

6 hours ago, seeyoujimmy said:

They say her deal is not the brexit they voted for

thanks for pointing that out, I heard May and some other MP's using the same words and was wondering if people know exactly what they voted for back in 2016, the ballot was misleading, should one understand they voted for ''leaving" "exit" without knowing the meaning and/or the consequences of their vote

37 minutes ago, Benroon said:

That's a nonsense I'm afraid - I actually have it in writing from Mark Lancaster MP that the party whip supersedes the will of the people that got him that job. Its also the case that if you are a minister, the party line overrides any opinion of the people who put you there and you are NOT ALLOWED to go against it. That one came from Iain Stewart MP.

 

I asked Lancaster to back a bill to outlaw hunting with dogs and he refused even though 81% of his constituents wanted him to !

 

A further hideous woman the MP for St Albans, Anne Main I think, also refused to back a bill to outlaw traps after several dog walkers pets had their limbs smashed to pieces even though 98% of her constituents wanted her to. 

 

I have always said MP's shouldn't even be going to work to think - they should be garnering the opinion of their voters and acting accordingly - EVERY time !

Whilst I entirely agree with your views, we only think this way nowadays because we know our 'representatives' are horribly corrupt.

 

Having said this, I see no way to change the system - as only those looking for money and/or power are likely to become politicians ☹️.

13 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Insinuate ? really ? it was a STATEMENT.

 

But as it was the main plank and photo call of your little campaign and all the brexiteers geniuses were beating each other up to be photographed on it I'm surprised you dismiss it so readily - still if a £350m promise are 'just words' which shouldn't be taken seriously, are you surprised people now think they've been conned ?

 

You still going on about George Osbourne who left politics 2 years ago ?

"You still going on about George Osbourne who left politics 2 years ago ?"

 

You're still going on about the red bus which was garaged 3 years ago.

 

Your avatar would indicate you are from Wolverhampton, sorry if I am incorrect, are you one of the 37% that voted remain, whilst a massive 63% voted leave, that must be one of the highest results in the UK to leave. 

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Not scared at all. So what is the point of having a referendum and not acting upon it and having another referendum. Absolutely no point at all.

 

Why can't you just accept the referendum result, behave like an adult and vote in the next GE for a candidate that represents your ideology, instead of having a 'hissy fit'

Because I can be an adult, accept the referendum result, and argue for a vote on the actual options on hand, instead of clinging on a 3-years old, completely meaningless opinion poll like a baby clingers on his rattle. 

 

Let me also say, though, that while I think a referendum would be democratically right, I hope the UK will just leave (one way or the other) because my first priority is the EU and not the UK (and a referendum would result in the worst outcome for the EU, which is the UK remaining a member). 

 

41 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

To be fair, I have to admit that I love the fxxx off video ????.

To be fair, I have to admit it’s entertaining. 

 

 

Edited March 18, 20197 yr by welovesundaysatspace

8 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well that's this week. I wonder what Liebour will be backing next week and the week after that  as it changes so much.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/jeremy-corbyn-hints-he-could-back-leave-in-second-brexit-vote-kr7vlzdbp

 

I like the way he keeps saying he's going to act to stop a botched Tory Brexit. 

 

And do what exactly?

 

Delusions of power - Tosser!

29 minutes ago, vogie said:

"You still going on about George Osbourne who left politics 2 years ago ?"

 

You're still going on about the red bus which was garaged 3 years ago.

 

Your avatar would indicate you are from Wolverhampton, sorry if I am incorrect, are you one of the 37% that voted remain, whilst a massive 63% voted leave, that must be one of the highest results in the UK to leave. 

 

Only the UK isn't an absolute democracy is it?

 

And this Brexit crap heap is the reason why it, and almost every other democracy, isn't.

 

No matter how much Brexiteers want to pretend otherwise.

 

Just like the referendum was a con. An advisory opinion poll in which many lies were told to con people.

49 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

thanks for pointing that out, I heard May and some other MP's using the same words and was wondering if people know exactly what they voted for back in 2016, the ballot was misleading, should one understand they voted for ''leaving" "exit" without knowing the meaning and/or the consequences of their vote

 

It would appear so.

 

Many seem to have believed the lies Boris and Co. spouted. They seemed to think we could just leave, carry on trading as we pleased and send all the Johnny Foreigners home. And all would be honky dory.

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Only the UK isn't an absolute democracy is it?

 

And this Brexit crap heap is the reason why it, and almost every other democracy, isn't.

 

No matter how much Brexiteers want to pretend otherwise.

 

Just like the referendum was a con. An advisory opinion poll in which many lies were told to con people.

We have answered your repetitive posts so many times BB, we all know how you feel and you know how we feel, really, there's no need to keep telling us, we get it, we just don't agree with it.

1 hour ago, Benroon said:

That's a nonsense I'm afraid - I actually have it in writing from Mark Lancaster MP that the party whip supersedes the will of the people that got him that job. Its also the case that if you are a minister, the party line overrides any opinion of the people who put you there and you are NOT ALLOWED to go against it. That one came from Iain Stewart MP.

 

I asked Lancaster to back a bill to outlaw hunting with dogs and he refused even though 81% of his constituents wanted him to !

 

A further hideous woman the MP for St Albans, Anne Main I think, also refused to back a bill to outlaw traps after several dog walkers pets had their limbs smashed to pieces even though 98% of her constituents wanted her to. 

 

I have always said MP's shouldn't even be going to work to think - they should be garnering the opinion of their voters and acting accordingly - EVERY time !

 

You do understand that parliament is sovereign in our representative democracy, not the electorate, don't you?

 

We elect MP's to represent us. They are mostly not independent, so we are also voting for the policies of the political party they are representing.

 

However, MP's can vote against their own party, which is why parties have Whips.

 

If an MP's views and voting isn't liked by the party he/she can be deselected at the next election as well as being pressurized to tow the line or resign etc; the electorate can also decide to not vote for them whether they are deselected or not.

 

But, the MP's job is to vote how they see things best. That's what they're elected to do. And once elected, they have to represent all constituents. Not just those who voted for them or their party.

 

They may gauge what the opinions are on some things among their constituency party and voters. But at the end of the day they are elected to make decisions which are best for the country. They might be a crap lot at the moment but that's not the process.

2 hours ago, vogie said:

It's not a case of Brexiteers being scared of another referendum, it's more a case of the remainers being scared of not getting one. 

And knowing the thrashing they'd get if forced upon the electorate again  

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

We have answered your repetitive posts so many times BB, we all know how you feel and you know how we feel, really, there's no need to keep telling us, we get it, we just don't agree with it.

 

The point is this isn't how I feel, it's the fact of the matter. Most Brexit supporters don't seem to have a clue what their own country's constitution is, how it is governed, the role of parliament etc etc.

 

And to be fair, don't seem to be either willing or capable of understanding. 

 

Hence so many repetitive posts continually claiming the referendum was some kind of legally binding vote, which it wasn't; and/or claiming parliament is subject to the will of the people, which other than via a general election, it isn't.

 

People may feel differently, have different views, and express them - and that's absolutely fine.

 

But to suggest that the UK isn't a representative democracy or that referendums have some legal binding is just nonsense.

5 hours ago, David in the north said:

changed from day to day, hour by hour.

....just a reaction to May's action 

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If the public still back Brexit, nothing for a Brexiteers to fret about.

We all know that is why they are fretting ... the longer it drags on the certainty is that Brexit will be kicked out by the “people”. 

 

The UK is reminiscent of Thai immigration policy, new eligible voter pro EU good guys in, dead Brexiteer bad guys out.

Edited March 18, 20197 yr by AlexRich

22 minutes ago, evadgib said:

And knowing the thrashing they'd get if forced upon the electorate again  

So you’re happy to put that to the test?

18 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

So you’re happy to put that to the test?

Happy that the first time wasn't enough? No!

I nonetheless welcome round 2 in order to bury this once and for all.

HTH

Edited March 18, 20197 yr by evadgib

5 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

It is clearly not the case as been shown many times. the MPs are not following their constituents views from the referendum. Again why we are in this mess but you keep saying it and you can kid yourself to the truth and fact.

Shows surprising honesty on the part of the MP's, they are doing what they think is best for the country and not taking the "this will get me elected again" way out. It is their job to lead, discuss, and guide their constituents and not follow emotional mob opinion, which is why referendums are not binding. Fred Bloggs voted in an MP to lead, not to follow his whims and fancies.

6 hours ago, soalbundy said:

MP's opinions will mirror those of the citizens, there will be for and against and something in between so of course it can't be implemented, the majority for leave was to small to make a viable decision. Many in industry however have already come to a decision, especially the financial industry, they've voted with their feet.

MP's opinions SHOULD mirror........but they don't.

4 hours ago, Benroon said:

That doesn't make any sense at all but carry on

 

 Does it make sense, and would you back Manchester United, if they were to demand a reply of last Saturday’s match. Or are you scared?

Lets face facts troops..right now labour couldn't organise a piss up at a brewery

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