Health Advisory

realthaideal · March 11, 2007

"http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery...63.0655.1km.jpg

This last one is pretty remarkable."

Indeed it is striking to see how the culture of burning crosses borders. I know that this pollution is also the rice field chaff being burnt off, as well as some setting fires to thresh game from the woods- a really unfortunate practice. Fires in these cases are just the easy method of getting a desired effect, clearing land or finding food. I really hope that this will change with continued concern and education. I tmust start with the young as the old are often so set intheir ways.

YOu have to imagine from that great satellite image that the fires detected are also of a certain size as well. It can't also include all the daily one hour fires of neighbors incinerating leaves or garbage too. If you were able to see all of that together, the reason for the brown air wouldbe abundantly clear. And it would be scary too.

Like I said earlier, I have plans to pursue neighborhood awareness programs for composting or vermiculture with the local governments and/or The Royal Projects. I would like to see Farang partnering with the Thais to make a difference, and not just complaining with our hands up in the air. I don't think it will be easy, but there is a chance for Chiang Mai to be a leader in these efforts. Hopefully other Jang Wat would follow suit.

Tywais · March 11, 2007

"http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery...63.0655.1km.jpg
This last one is pretty remarkable."

Indeed it is striking to see how the culture of burning crosses borders.

Just noticed they have a very high resolution (250m/pixel) version also > http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery...3.0655.250m.jpg

Large image so will take time on a slow connection.

cloudhopper · March 11, 2007

Today is definitely the worst I've ever seen here in changwat MHS...

wrecker · March 11, 2007

It's not vehicle emissions. If it was, then it'd occur only/significantly more in the city, which is quite obviously not the case. Any 1-2-3 hour drive in any direction will confirm that.

it is the slash and burn in the hills, and it is the fact that all villagers are amking stickpilces of leaves and dead wood and burning it. The same is happening in Chiangrai and Mae hong son. I was there yesterday I could not see over 50 meter. The police however is too busy fining children who are going to school.

CobraSnakeNecktie · March 11, 2007

Today is definitely the worst I've ever seen here in changwat MHS...

In CM the PM-10 is now listed at 273. ouch!!!!

http://www.pcd.go.th/AirQuality/Regional/Default.cfm

sabaijai · March 11, 2007

Satellite images showing fires in Myanmar.

According to wbangkok.com, CNN is also reporting out-of-control agricultural fires in Laos, Myanmar and northern Thailand although I could find no mention of it on cnn.com.

Worst I've ever seen it in 30 years, must be forest fires out there somewhere.

The Star (Malaysia) reports:

"If it rises to 300 micrograms (per cubic meter), we may ask the Pollution Control Department to invoke a state of environmental emergency so officials can act more effectively,'' to stop open-air burning, said Apiwat Kunarat, the director of the regional environmental office under the Ministry of Natural Resource and Environment.

"It would be like an environmental martial law and the punishment for violation of the laws will be harsher than usual,'' he said. Those who cannot avoid outdoor exposure should cover their noses with a wet towel to avoid breathing in the dust generated by widespread brush fires in the surrounding areas and slash-and-burn farming activities, the department said.

The department said the haze, which appeared on Thursday last week, will likely get worse in the near future if the fires continued.

cmsally · March 11, 2007

This is the worst I've ever seen the smoke/pollution in Chiang Mai in 20yrs.

All the local people are complaining today and I have had a sore throat and sore eyes since yesterday.

Anyone else starting to feel it?

CobraSnakeNecktie · March 11, 2007

Satellite images showing fires in Myanmar.
According to wbangkok.com, CNN is also reporting out-of-control agricultural fires in Laos, Myanmar and northern Thailand although I could find no mention of it on cnn.com.

Worst I've ever seen it in 30 years, must be forest fires out there somewhere.

The Star (Malaysia) reports:

"If it rises to 300 micrograms (per cubic meter), we may ask the Pollution Control Department to invoke a state of environmental emergency so officials can act more effectively,'' to stop open-air burning, said Apiwat Kunarat, the director of the regional environmental office under the Ministry of Natural Resource and Environment.

"It would be like an environmental martial law and the punishment for violation of the laws will be harsher than usual,'' he said. Those who cannot avoid outdoor exposure should cover their noses with a wet towel to avoid breathing in the dust generated by widespread brush fires in the surrounding areas and slash-and-burn farming activities, the department said.

The department said the haze, which appeared on Thursday last week, will likely get worse in the near future if the fires continued.

I just looked out the window and there are 4 or so significant forest fires on mountain at the western edge of Chiang Mai. Burning bright orange. The ones I see are north of the Zoo by maybe 2 km's.

KhunMarco · March 11, 2007

"http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery...63.0655.1km.jpg
This last one is pretty remarkable."

Indeed it is striking to see how the culture of burning crosses borders.

Just noticed they have a very high resolution (250m/pixel) version also > http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery...3.0655.250m.jpg

Large image so will take time on a slow connection.

Holy s.... we are living in a gas chamber!

sabaijai · March 11, 2007

This is the worst I've ever seen the smoke/pollution in Chiang Mai in 20yrs.
All the local people are complaining today and I have had a sore throat and sore eyes since yesterday.

Anyone else starting to feel it?

I'm feeling it, first time I've noticed a reaction. Red, irritated eyes, scratchy throat for several days. Staying in my office with the a/c on helps a lot (the eyes clear up within a couple hours) but can't stay in there 24/7 .... might have to fly to bkk for relief.

jackr · March 11, 2007

It's not vehicle emissions. If it was, then it'd occur only/significantly more in the city, which is quite obviously not the case. Any 1-2-3 hour drive in any direction will confirm that.

it is the slash and burn in the hills, and it is the fact that all villagers are amking stickpilces of leaves and dead wood and burning it. The same is happening in Chiangrai and Mae hong son. I was there yesterday I could not see over 50 meter. The police however is too busy fining children who are going to school.

But you have to admit that the fumes from, predominantly tuk tuks and sawngthaews, anywhere near the moat, Thapae road and Huay Kaew is intoxicating. You can smell the buggers from half way up Doi Suthep!

nikster · March 11, 2007

It's not vehicle emissions. If it was, then it'd occur only/significantly more in the city, which is quite obviously not the case. Any 1-2-3 hour drive in any direction will confirm that.

it is the slash and burn in the hills, and it is the fact that all villagers are amking stickpilces of leaves and dead wood and burning it. The same is happening in Chiangrai and Mae hong son. I was there yesterday I could not see over 50 meter. The police however is too busy fining children who are going to school.

But you have to admit that the fumes from, predominantly tuk tuks and sawngthaews, anywhere near the moat, Thapae road and Huay Kaew is intoxicating. You can smell the buggers from half way up Doi Suthep!

Yeah but the scale just doesn't compare. Those tuk tuks are bad at the moat. The fires burning everywhere in the north stretch for 1000 kilometers, and it's _that_ smoky _everywhere_. It's staggering.

Here in Pai, there is pretty much zero pollution from trucks - the ratio of forest to trucks / cars is such that even really stinky trucks don't matter one bit. But pollution is just as bad as in Chiang Mai, and that's because entire hillsides are on fire and have been for the last month. I am in the middle of a giant bonfire.

PS: Thanks everyone for the awesome imagery! The scale of this is just as bad as I had feared. This is an old, old tradition.

Edited March 11, 2007 by nikster

nikster · March 11, 2007

Is the pollution the same all over Chiangmai, or are certain areas better (or worse) than others?

Why don't you take a look for yourself. Satellite imagery here:

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery...63.0655.1km.jpg

You can also get more high-res images on that page. But what's clear from the image - and I recommend everyone take a look at it, an image really says more than 1000 words here - is that the air is extremely polluted starting from about central thailand up north into burma and laos. The grey stuff is smoke, the red things fires larger than 1km.

If you want to get out, go to BKK or south of BKK.

el jefe · March 11, 2007

An hour ago you could easily see two huge fires going on on the lower slopes of Doi Suthep slightly north of the city. These look too big to be local farmers. It's probably the govt doing controlled burns. Unless the govt figures out a better system, there's no way this problem is going to get better anytime soon.

el jefe · March 11, 2007

I have decided to try Costa Rica because it has good internet, lower humidity and temperature in the central valley and much better air if you are outside San Jose. Unfortunately Phuket area is just too unreliable and slow for my work needs....I will really miss Thailand but I don't know where to live healthy with decent internet here. Maybe in the future if they get their act together. Enjoy Krabi !!!!!

CSN & Robroy --

If you do decide to try Costa Rica's central valley because of the possibility of better air, you'll probably want to live in the eastern suburbs on the San Pedro / Curridabat side. The trade winds blow all of San Jose's pollution to the more exclusive western suburbs of Escazu and Santa Ana. It's still never as bad as CM. If you go as far west as Ciudad Colon, Atenas, Grecia or San Ramon the air is considerably better. And fwiw, a comparable lifestyle in Costa rica will cost about twice as much as in CM.

CobraSnakeNecktie · March 11, 2007

I have decided to try Costa Rica because it has good internet, lower humidity and temperature in the central valley and much better air if you are outside San Jose. Unfortunately Phuket area is just too unreliable and slow for my work needs....I will really miss Thailand but I don't know where to live healthy with decent internet here. Maybe in the future if they get their act together. Enjoy Krabi !!!!!

CSN & Robroy --

If you do decide to try Costa Rica's central valley because of the possibility of better air, you'll probably want to live in the eastern suburbs on the San Pedro / Curridabat side. The trade winds blow all of San Jose's pollution to the more exclusive western suburbs of Escazu and Santa Ana. It's still never as bad as CM. If you go as far west as Ciudad Colon, Atenas, Grecia or San Ramon the air is considerably better. And fwiw, a comparable lifestyle in Costa rica will cost about twice as much as in CM.

Thats good to know. I was checking out Ciudad Colon but was not sure how it compares to other areas.

Are the trade winds from the south or east?

People say the air is clean in Ciudad Colon but hard to quantify. Did not seem twice as expensive to me but I guess it depends on how your living in Thailand. I am just looking for a 1 bedroom apartment and see plenty under $500 a month. I pay $350 here for a nice one.

Any other generalizations about CR from an expats view?

Edited March 11, 2007 by CobraSnakeNecktie

drenoi · March 11, 2007

http://modis.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/individ...date=2006-11-20

this site sometimes has some cool sat imagery also...

can anyone superimpose the sat images from the previous posts into google earth so we can see exactly where the fires are? that would be cool, song kran is coming up, maybe we can do a fire fighting tour... & yeah, thanks for the good links!!

sabaijai · March 11, 2007

Looking at the satellite images it seems it's much clearer around, say Mae Sai/Chiang Saen than it is in Chiang Mai, Mae Hong Son or Bangkok.

I've merged the 'What's the Source of the Pollution?' thread with this one since there was so much overlap.

sabaijai · March 11, 2007

I have decided to try Costa Rica because it has good internet, lower humidity and temperature in the central valley and much better air if you are outside San Jose. Unfortunately Phuket area is just too unreliable and slow for my work needs....I will really miss Thailand but I don't know where to live healthy with decent internet here. Maybe in the future if they get their act together. Enjoy Krabi !!!!!

CSN & Robroy --

If you do decide to try Costa Rica's central valley because of the possibility of better air, you'll probably want to live in the eastern suburbs on the San Pedro / Curridabat side. The trade winds blow all of San Jose's pollution to the more exclusive western suburbs of Escazu and Santa Ana. It's still never as bad as CM. If you go as far west as Ciudad Colon, Atenas, Grecia or San Ramon the air is considerably better. And fwiw, a comparable lifestyle in Costa rica will cost about twice as much as in CM.

Thats good to know. I was checking out Ciudad Colon but was not sure how it compares to other areas.

Are the trade winds from the south or east?

People say the air is clean in Ciudad Colon but hard to quantify. Did not seem twice as expensive to me but I guess it depends on how your living in Thailand. I am just looking for a 1 bedroom apartment and see plenty under $500 a month. I pay $350 here for a nice one.

Any other generalizations about CR from an expats view?

Yes, cost of living in CT is about double that in Thailand. And food not as tasty or as varied .... Have you tried Ecuador? :D

CobraSnakeNecktie · March 11, 2007

I have decided to try Costa Rica because it has good internet, lower humidity and temperature in the central valley and much better air if you are outside San Jose. Unfortunately Phuket area is just too unreliable and slow for my work needs....I will really miss Thailand but I don't know where to live healthy with decent internet here. Maybe in the future if they get their act together. Enjoy Krabi !!!!!

CSN & Robroy --

If you do decide to try Costa Rica's central valley because of the possibility of better air, you'll probably want to live in the eastern suburbs on the San Pedro / Curridabat side. The trade winds blow all of San Jose's pollution to the more exclusive western suburbs of Escazu and Santa Ana. It's still never as bad as CM. If you go as far west as Ciudad Colon, Atenas, Grecia or San Ramon the air is considerably better. And fwiw, a comparable lifestyle in Costa rica will cost about twice as much as in CM.

Thats good to know. I was checking out Ciudad Colon but was not sure how it compares to other areas.

Are the trade winds from the south or east?

People say the air is clean in Ciudad Colon but hard to quantify. Did not seem twice as expensive to me but I guess it depends on how your living in Thailand. I am just looking for a 1 bedroom apartment and see plenty under $500 a month. I pay $350 here for a nice one.

Any other generalizations about CR from an expats view?

Yes, cost of living in CT is about double that in Thailand. And food not as tasty or as varied .... Have you tried Ecuador? :D

Never been to Ecuador but heard good things about it. I have heard that Quito has terrible industrial air pollution. Can you recommend somewhere in Ecuador that is nice to live with decent internet?

Ricardo · March 12, 2007

On a lighter note, is it perhaps time for a special smilie with a face-mask, for use by members living up-north ?

We drove up to Mae Tang dam yesterday, for a meal and a run-out, and I was slightly suprised to see that a lot of the burning-off was not fields or clearing forests, but clearing forest under-growth (why bother ?) and road-side strips of grass which could not possibly have any commercial use.

They are filming the new Rambo-4 movie up there this week. Hope the cameras can see the action through the very thick smog ! What a wonderful advertisement for Chiang Mai's natural tourist-attractions.

Meanwhile the fire-stations along the way had plenty of nice shiny red fire-trucks parked neatly outside. How many people have to die, or have their health affected, before these are actually put into use ? I know - TiT !

sabaijai · March 12, 2007

Forest fire smoke forces flight delays, cancellations

THEERAWAT KHAMTHITA

Thick smoke from forest fires forced several airlines to cancel or postpone domestic flights to Chiang Mai and neighbouring Mae Hong Son provinces yesterday.

Several flights from Bangkok to Chiang Mai were cancelled due to thick smoke shrouding northern provinces. Some Mae Hong Son-bound flights from Bangkok were delayed.

Sansanee Chaichiangpin, of the Chiang Mai-based Northern Meteorological Centre, said the situation in several northern provinces was getting worse. Visibility was down to 1,500 metres in Chiang Mai, 1,000 metres in Chiang Rai and only 900 metres in Mae Hong Son. Such poor visibility posed a risk to flights in and out of the affected provinces, she said.

Satellite images showed thick smoke has blanketed wide areas in the North, especially Chiang Mai where bushfires and weed-burning have been blamed for causing the haze. Forest fires have also been spotted near remote northern areas bordering Laos and Burma.

Ms Sansanee called on residents to stop burning garbage or weeds as the smoke would hamper artificial rain-making operations, set to start this week, which it is hoped will help tackle the haze.

Some residents of these northern provinces have complained of respiratory problems from the smoke.

In Chiang Rai, residents have been staying indoors as much as possible, due to thick haze that has been covering large parts of the province for the past week. People living in municipal areas have complained of sore eyes due to the smoke.

Kamolroj Chiangwong, chief of Chiang Rai's Mae Lao district, yesterday joined 500 residents and local leaders in an oath-taking ceremony swearing they would not cause bushfires.

Forest fires were yesterday reported near the Burmese town of Tachilek opposite Mae Sai in Chiang Rai district.

People living along the border have sought medical treatment for smoke-inflicted ailments

Vichai Thaweepvoradet, mayor of Mae Sai tambon municipality, said the thick smoke has badly affected tourism and cross-border trade between Tachilek and Mae Sai.

Chiang Rai authorities have threatened to get tough on anyone found lighting forest fires, with the situation in the province becoming critical. So far this year, Chiang Rai has seen the highest number of forest fires in the country

source: CPAmedia

KhunMarco · March 12, 2007

Well, I had enough, my landlord allows me to leave the apartment on the 19th, I'm going south (still have to decide where).

And someone last year had the nerve to call me hysterical, because I was complaining.

Too bad, the people here are just the best and that's why I came to CM, but this is plain nuts

See you in 2-3 months ...slow your breath in the meanwhile

Edited March 12, 2007 by KhunMarco

sabaijai · March 12, 2007

Well, I had enough, my landlord allows me to leave the apartment on the 19th, I'm going south (still have to decide where).
And someone last year had the nerve to call me hysterical, because I was complaining.

Too bad, the people here are just the best and that's why I came to CM, but this is plain nuts

See you in 2-3 months ...slow your breath in the meanwhile

Hopefully the south won't have the forest fire cloud from Indonesia it did 2-3 years ago. The air over Phuket looked the way CM does now.

I reckon a Gulf island would be your best bet .... and take the train or bus.

tijnebijn · March 12, 2007

I wish I could go south for a while also,really is taking its toll now,the smoke is burning in the nose now.

My youngest is coughing,and I just bought some protection when going outside.Hope the rainmaking works quick!the funny thing is that the people around here have no idea how bad the air is right now,the puuyai or whatever seem not to mention anything to the locals,i tell them and now some of them see them taking some protection as well,the air is plain closed for a week allready and seem to get worse by the day.

Unbelievable.

Robroy · March 12, 2007

Thanks everyone, and glad my post citing the science & the studies on this CM problem has been of some use.

In the light of the various studies I can only advise readers to minimise breathing.

No-one has been able to precisely answer my questions (on any solid grounding) because I don't think anyone knows the breakdowns of 'Where does the pollution come from?'

But obviously in broad terms it comes from regional Asian sources, northern Thailand sources (forest fires and deliberate burning in both cases), and Chiang Mai sources (to which add vehicle and industrial emissions, cookers, dust from building sites, etc etc). Obviously it's critical presently because of the forest fires and deliberate burning outside the city and beyond.

Looking at the much-cited satellite fire map...

http://maps.geog.umd.edu/activefire_html/c...nd_checkbox.htm

...you can see that the fires decrease dramatically the further south you go. Bangkok good, the South much, much better.

(My gf has just returned from the South and confirms there is very little smoke haze there. I, on the other hand, just returned from Luang Prabang, and can confirm that northern Laos is as bad as here, if not worse. I couldn't see the sun above Luang Prabang till about 90 minutes after sunrise, and then only faintly. Everyone I show my photos to thinks it's the Moon.)

Someone above said Phuket was covered in smoke a few years ago because of Malaysian fires - and of course the South abuts Malaysia, one of the worst fire culprits. As I'm headed for the South, I'll just have to deal with that when/if it happens; and maybe leave Asia and join CobraSnakeNecktie in Costa Rica if so.

But in the meantime it seems clear that this will be my last year in Chiang Mai, living under this toxic inversion layer. I thinks the stats quoted in my above post...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry1189093

...say it all:

• By 6 out of 7 measures, air pollution levels here higher than in Bangkok.

• Lung cancer rates in CM the second-highest in the world.

• More lung cancer here than in Bangkok.

• The really nasty particles (the potently carcinogenic <PM10s) here are presently double the safe maximum.

• Respiratory disease rates have doubled in 10 years, to the point where now half the province's population is treated annually.

• CM residents this week warned to stay indoors.

And the piece de resistance in my opinion:

Chiang Mai City Clerk Ken Santitham, states: “Our air problems are not that severe.”

This morning I went into a cafe near CMU and mentioned to the waitress that it was very smoky outside - I couldn't see Doi Suthep, after all, and I was standing right under it. She brought me an ashtray. Which I thought said a lot.

I doubt the Thais are going to do anything about this problem soon. Educating them will take several years, and my lungs won't last that long. I'm not going to start complaining about that (TIT), just up stumps.

I apologise if the above stats are proven wrong at some stage. Even I find it hard to believe that CM has more lung cancer than Bangkok, which has 20(?) times the population. But that's what the studies/experts say, so I have to treat that as our present level of knowledge.

Nevertheless, I don't need epidemiological data to tell me that living in a town with double the safe levels of <PM10s is dangerous. The discomfort from the present air quality is bad enough, but it's the long-term effects I really worry about.

p1p · March 12, 2007

• Lung cancer rates in CM the second-highest in the world.

Please can you give your source for that statistic.

sambhavi · March 12, 2007

Hi,

I'm supposed to be coming to Chiangmai for a few days break - this Sunday (18th March) - Wednesday. The haze seems to be bad there. Would you recommend that I cancel?

Or are things expected to get better soon with the artificial rain?

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Thank you

Ulysses G. · March 12, 2007

• Lung cancer rates in CM the second-highest in the world.

Please can you give your source for that statistic.

Somebody said it on the internet!

KhunMarco · March 12, 2007

Hi,
I'm supposed to be coming to Chiangmai for a few days break - this Sunday (18th March) - Wednesday. The haze seems to be bad there. Would you recommend that I cancel?

Or are things expected to get better soon with the artificial rain?

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Thank you

It's very difficult to tell sambhavi, because nobody really knows whether and when they are going to "make the rain".

Look I'm not a complainer by nature and I'm still in good shape 38 yo, but I can tell you it's really really bad, at the moment I wouldn't dream a vacation here, not even free. You walk 30 secs out of your home and your mouth is full of dust (I'm not exaggerating, I swear). It's not humidity it's farking pollution and you can taste it.

I'm sorry for the guys who own a business here, but I wouldn't suggest a vacation here at the moment to any of my friends. At the end of the day..up to you, it's your health , my two honest cents.

Hope someone can give you detailed information, (about the rain making)I doubt it though.

Edited March 12, 2007 by KhunMarco

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