last night EU 28 agreed 2 A50 extension variants, both based on deal being voted on next week

 

today I read on BBC News that voting may not find place next week

 

didn't take May long to deviate from what was agreed

 

 

What is so difficult about filling in a few forms??

 
Throughout these threads, I’ve noticed many of the remoaners are against Brexit for purely selfish reasons. With you it would seem for selfish reasons, that would benifit your sons girlfriend.
I do hope that she can obtain the necessary visa to visit the U.K when we do finally exit this so called Union, following the same proceedure that many Thai girlfriends of British citizens must also take.

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11 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Of course, Brexiteers will never get that, because they’re still living in their lala-land where they’re telling themselves how great they were back in the old days. 

 

Here is a good summary of how Europe feels: 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/20/pathetic-incoherent-chaotic-europes-verdict-on-brexit-shambles

 

Brexit has revealed a country they long looked up to locked in a narrative of its own exceptionalism, talking mainly to itself, incoherent, entitled, incapable of compromise (with itself or its neighbours), wholly unrealistic, and startlingly ignorant of the workings of an organisation it has belonged to for nearly 50 years.

Gosh you read the Guardian as well  the readership is into double figures now i hear , do you send them money as well to keep going?

10 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

last night EU 28 agreed 2 A50 extension variants, both based on deal being voted on next week

 

today I read on BBC News that voting may not find place next week

 

didn't take May long to deviate from what was agreed

 

 

It was EU27 as the agreements we hashed out after she left the room.

 

Sure I think they thought she was intending to put the "Meaningless" Vote again next week to MP's, seems reality has set in and she is having second thoughts.

 

Unfortunately seems they gave her two extra weeks to use constructively and all it has done allowed her to wast more time.

 

Difficult to know what was agreed behind closed doors but I am sure as you say "didn't take May long to deviate from what was agreed"

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

last night EU 28 agreed 2 A50 extension variants, both based on deal being voted on next week

 

today I read on BBC News that voting may not find place next week

 

didn't take May long to deviate from what was agreed

 

 

I thought Bercow had stated that an unchanged deal could not be voted on for a third time?

 

So why would may and the eu think it could be voted on again next week?

 

They must know something the rest of us don't?

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I thought Bercow had stated that an unchanged deal could not be voted on for a third time?

 

So why would may and the eu think it could be voted on again next week?

 

They must know something the rest of us don't?

It could be that its a different deal ?

17 minutes ago, sanemax said:

It could be that its a different deal ?

Unlikely, as there is no mention anywhere of a changed deal.

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I thought Bercow had stated that an unchanged deal could not be voted on for a third time?

 

So why would may and the eu think it could be voted on again next week?

 

They must know something the rest of us don't?

She's hoping to change Bercow's mind. How she's going to do that is anyone's guess. She's not exactly casting couch material, but with Bercow you never know. Maybe he's into sullen old crows.

14 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

Throughout these threads, I’ve noticed many of the remoaners are against Brexit for purely selfish reasons. With you it would seem for selfish reasons, that would benifit your sons girlfriend.

I do hope that she can obtain the necessary visa to visit the U.K when we do finally exit this so called Union, following the same proceedure that many Thai girlfriends of British citizens must also take.

Others have replied on this, but just to clear one point up:- 

I am against Brexit for many reasons, it is true that there is an element of personal interest in some of them. I would have thought that applies to all of us on both sides of this argument though. My main reason for being against Brexit is the rather mundane one of believing that it will have a terrible effect on our economy, and most people other than some of the super rich, will suffer. Ironically, the working class Brexit voters who were lead to believe that the EU was the source of all their woes, will probably suffer most. This would give me no pleasure at all.

2 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

Gosh you read the Guardian as well  the readership is into double figures now i hear , do you send them money as well to keep going?

Inverted snobbery from a Sun reader?

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I thought Bercow had stated that an unchanged deal could not be voted on for a third time?

 

So why would may and the eu think it could be voted on again next week?

 

They must know something the rest of us don't?

There are a number of ways, one would be to ask MP's to suspend or revoke the rule that prohibits MP's from voting again on it.

But then she needs to get it voted if favor of, I doubt it would succeed, but there again there are a lot of MP's wanting to see her defeated again.  

Edited March 23, 20197 yr by Basil B

19 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Others have replied on this, but just to clear one point up:- 

I am against Brexit for many reasons, it is true that there is an element of personal interest in some of them. I would have thought that applies to all of us on both sides of this argument though. My main reason for being against Brexit is the rather mundane one of believing that it will have a terrible effect on our economy, and most people other than some of the super rich, will suffer. Ironically, the working class Brexit voters who were lead to believe that the EU was the source of all their woes, will probably suffer most. This would give me no pleasure at all.

Quite apart from the 'fact' I (use the term v loosely!) that most of the poorer paid brits. are as sick and tired of their own govt. as they are the eu  (so not thinking the eu "was the source of all their woes"), hopefully, they also realise that if the brit. govt. is able to over-ride the referendum result - they will be in even worse trouble in the future!

 

On the other hand, if they manage to stop brit./eu politicians from a brino/revoke article 50 decision - politicians on both sides will be far more wary of the electorate in future, and may even start listening to them for a while!

21 minutes ago, Basil B said:

There are a number of ways, one would be to ask MP's to suspend or revoke the rule that prohibits MP's from voting again on it.

But then she needs to get it voted if favor of, I doubt it would succeed, but there again there are a lot of MP's wanting to see her defeated again.  

Disagree.

 

MPs know that the electorate are very aware that the eu/may deal is very bad indeed!

41 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Others have replied on this, but just to clear one point up:- 

I am against Brexit for many reasons, it is true that there is an element of personal interest in some of them. I would have thought that applies to all of us on both sides of this argument though. My main reason for being against Brexit is the rather mundane one of believing that it will have a terrible effect on our economy, and most people other than some of the super rich, will suffer. Ironically, the working class Brexit voters who were lead to believe that the EU was the source of all their woes, will probably suffer most. This would give me no pleasure at all.

On top of it, I never understood how people may think that a global low tax hub of free trade agreements may improve the condition of the working class. It still remains a mystery for me.

41 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Others have replied on this, but just to clear one point up:- 

I am against Brexit for many reasons, it is true that there is an element of personal interest in some of them. I would have thought that applies to all of us on both sides of this argument though. My main reason for being against Brexit is the rather mundane one of believing that it will have a terrible effect on our economy, and most people other than some of the super rich, will suffer. Ironically, the working class Brexit voters who were lead to believe that the EU was the source of all their woes, will probably suffer most. This would give me no pleasure at all.

 

This is an interesting question for me too. I don't believe that I'll be better off economically with Brexit, so I see no sense in it from that viewpoint. But if I believed that I would be better off or it would have no impact I would still not want it. I like having a European passport and having the freedom to live, travel and work in Europe without any issues should I choose to. That will not be as easy after the exit.

 

For dedicated leavers there is no economic benefit, unless you are a hedge fund like Odey, Rees Mogg, and you'll position yourself to profit from it initially ... or be able to avoid tax legislation on offshore funds coming down the pipe later. But for a typical voter I can't see any real benefit, indeed, I think many of them are going to suffer the consequences more than the average remainer. The benefit seems to be psychological, like your team winning the cup. The problem is that wears out quickly, and they'll find they are facing the same problems (or more) as before, but don't have an EU to blame it on.  

 

 

4 minutes ago, candide said:

On top of it, I never understood how people may think that a global low tax hub of free trade agreements may improve the condition of the working class. It still remains a mystery for me.

It's an emotion ... a feeling ... that will end in tears.

20 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Disagree.

 

MPs know that the electorate are very aware that the eu/may deal is very bad indeed!

 

I'd like to see a random 20 people stopped in the high street and asked to explain what May's deal means to them? I'd be surprised if many of them really understood it, or were clear on the difference between the withdrawal agreement and the future relationship?

 

The WA gives you the breathing space to negotiate the future relationship ... but the latter is an open book ... and we could end up with anything from Norway + to Canada + ... it doesn't mean permanent customs union, although many disingenuous MP's claim that to be the case. My personal view is that the "backstop" issue is a red herring. 

 

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Disagree.

 

MPs know that the electorate are very aware that the eu/may deal is very bad indeed!

I am not part of the British electorate. Can you explain to me why the EU/May deal is very bad?

And yes, I understand it is not perfect but what is the alternative if the red lines of May need to be respected? 

I suppose you want a no-deal. Maybe after a couple of months we can discuss again what constitutes a very bad (lack of a) deal.

3 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

I am not part of the British electorate. Can you explain to me why the EU/May deal is very bad?

And yes, I understand it is not perfect but what is the alternative if the red lines of May need to be respected? 

I suppose you want a no-deal. Maybe after a couple of months we can discuss again what constitutes a very bad (lack of a) deal.

It's is the best deal if May's red lines are to be respected.

 

But....

 

No one voted for May's red lines - they are her biases, prejudices no one else's.

 

It's Bad because it throws the profitable services sector  under a bus, but saves a few manufacturing jobs.

 

It's Bad because it means adhering to EU rules with no say 

 

 

45 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

There are a number of ways, one would be to ask MP's to suspend or revoke the rule that prohibits MP's from voting again on it.

But then she needs to get it voted if favor of, I doubt it would succeed, but there again there are a lot of MP's wanting to see her defeated again.  

Disagree.

 

MPs know that the electorate are very aware that the eu/may deal is very bad indeed!

You disagree with my post, OK

 

But I can not see how your explanation has any relevance to what I posted.

25 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

I am not part of the British electorate. Can you explain to me why the EU/May deal is very bad?

And yes, I understand it is not perfect but what is the alternative if the red lines of May need to be respected? 

I suppose you want a no-deal. Maybe after a couple of months we can discuss again what constitutes a very bad (lack of a) deal.

Personally, I want a trading deal before anything else is discussed!

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Personally, I want a trading deal before anything else is discussed!

So you want a trading deal and customs union. isn't that remain?

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Personally, I want a trading deal before anything else is discussed!

OK we'll wait about 10 years then.....

34 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

I'd like to see a random 20 people stopped in the high street and asked to explain what May's deal means to them? I'd be surprised if many of them really understood it, or were clear on the difference between the withdrawal agreement and the future relationship?

 

The WA gives you the breathing space to negotiate the future relationship ... but the latter is an open book ... and we could end up with anything from Norway + to Canada + ... it doesn't mean permanent customs union, although many disingenuous MP's claim that to be the case. My personal view is that the "backstop" issue is a red herring. 

 

 

 

They've had nearly 3 years to talk about a trading deal, but for reasons known only to themselves - preferred to leave this as the last item on the agenda - and the may/eu deal STILL talks about negotiating a trade deal in the future!

2 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

OK we'll wait about 10 years then.....

Quite.....

Can May go back to the EU empty handed again? It looks like she will have no agreement to her surrender treaty. What’s their next plan going to be?
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47675261
Brexit: Vote on Theresa May's deal may not happen next week


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Britain hits a new low as the EU has to save us from our own Prime Minister

 

 

On Thursday night in a Brussels conference chamber, something happened that was so breathtaking it will define the history of post-war Britain. It was such an indictment of the state of our nation that it almost literally cannot be believed. A group of foreign powers intervened to save the British people from their own prime minister.

 

 

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/brexit-european-council-jonathan-lis-theresa-may-extension

6 minutes ago, tebee said:

Britain hits a new low as the EU has to save us from our own Prime Minister

 

 

On Thursday night in a Brussels conference chamber, something happened that was so breathtaking it will define the history of post-war Britain. It was such an indictment of the state of our nation that it almost literally cannot be believed. A group of foreign powers intervened to save the British people from their own prime minister.

 

 

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/brexit-european-council-jonathan-lis-theresa-may-extension

 

 

I fear that you actually believe some of the cr4p that you write!

Edited March 23, 20197 yr by Jip99

15 minutes ago, tebee said:

Britain hits a new low as the EU has to save us from our own Prime Minister

 

 

On Thursday night in a Brussels conference chamber, something happened that was so breathtaking it will define the history of post-war Britain. It was such an indictment of the state of our nation that it almost literally cannot be believed. A group of foreign powers intervened to save the British people from their own prime minister.

 

 

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/brexit-european-council-jonathan-lis-theresa-may-extension

The EU is more worried about it's own skin than to worry about the UK.

Shortly 

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

They've had nearly 3 years to talk about a trading deal, but for reasons known only to themselves - preferred to leave this as the last item on the agenda - and the may/eu deal STILL talks about negotiating a trade deal in the future!

Shortly after the vote came through I watched an EU official on Newsnight, a lady with understanding of the the procedure for leaving the EU, and she explained that the agreed procedure was agree a withdrawal first, and only after you have left the EU can you discuss the future relationship, because they don't negotiate a trade deal with a country that is a member. Now that appears to be what all EU countries have signed up to, including the UK ... and that is what has actually happened. They did not make it up on the hoof ... it was already written down and signed up to.  

 

So what they have done is followed the agreed procedure. When people like Davis and Johnson stated otherwise they were really only displaying their own ignorance ... or lying?

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 20197 yr by AlexRich