Do you believe in God and why

[TGIR]

On 8/13/2019 at 2:57 AM, CharlieH said:

 

Humans have been on this planet 200k years, Jesus around only 2019 (ish) so, there was an event, probably in someones mind, to have/create a story, "The greatest story ever told" if you like. ????

 

That answer both questions ????  in short, the invention of a method for a small group or one to control a larger group or many.

In other words, God is a fantasy.........which is what I believe.  Most people would rather believe in the fantasy than try to face the unanswerable question.

 

[CMNightRider]

1 hour ago, hyku1147 said:

Download video

 

This video proves there is finally intelligent life on this site.  The majority of posts prior to this video were nothing more than atheistic, nonsensical, and idiotic comments.  ????

[Sunmaster]

27 minutes ago, TGIR said:

In other words, God is a fantasy.........which is what I believe.  Most people would rather believe in the fantasy than try to face the unanswerable question.

 

I've been asking the unanswerable question(s) for the most part of my life, really delved deep into it, yet here I am, knowing that there's more to life that what we can see or touch or even just imagine.
And for me, there's no question that what I found is the furthest from a mere fantasy, but rather more real than anything I can experience in day-to-day life.
Can you make sense of that?

[Skeptic7]

3 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

This video proves there is finally intelligent life on this site.  The majority of posts prior to this video were nothing more than atheistic, nonsensical, and idiotic comments.  ????

The Discovery Institute is a farce. It denies science, facts and evidence. Makes false claims and proposes non-science as science. A promoter of Intelligent Design, which is pseudoscience and not accepted by the scientific community, nor the courts. The Discovery Institute is not a credible source for truth or reality. 

 

https://www.skeptical-science.com/science/claims-peer-review-intelligent-design-examined/

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/discovery-institute-still_b_8479280?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAA8TALJQJwb9eP5jGt-Uzst_JZxWvKpM8bat2Uss2sGQfz0UUCCCkAT8Xo4Mh8KMZrbUnee-mNeh62TqIziSLLNPSdfb81nabw0IeO2eLVrjWwwIoM6JXWKEaej5_74iWTDPI3FM_hWp5efzohs7O_wfC0eRgoSyx3JzFjC52oH0

[giddyup]

58 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I've been asking the unanswerable question(s) for the most part of my life, really delved deep into it, yet here I am, knowing that there's more to life that what we can see or touch or even just imagine.
And for me, there's no question that what I found is the furthest from a mere fantasy, but rather more real than anything I can experience in day-to-day life.
Can you make sense of that?

No.

[Sunmaster]

10 minutes ago, giddyup said:

No.

That's surprising, considering your profile picture.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Sunmaster

[giddyup]

4 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

That's surprising, looking at your profile picture.

Not at all. You have just said you have found something more real than day to day life without explaining exactly what it is. If it involves suspending reality and having faith, you will have lost me immediately.

[Skeptic7]

6 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

The video is about the beginning of the universe.

OK, but the source and this guy are dubious. Hardly objective sources. Obviously Christian driven agendas. 

 

Stephen C. Meyer is an American advocate of the pseudoscientific principle of intelligent design. He helped found the Center for Science and Culture of the Discovery Institute, which is the main organization behind the intelligent design movement. Before joining the DI, Meyer was a professor at Whitworth University. 

 

Whitworth University is a private Christian liberal arts college affiliated with the Presbyterian Church and located in Spokane, Washington. 

 

Whitworth University is a private, residential, liberal arts institution affiliated with the Presbyterian church. The university's mission is to provide its diverse student body an education of the mind and the heart, equipping its graduates to honor God, follow Christ, and serve humanity.

[FarFlungFalang]

On 4/15/2019 at 12:28 AM, mauGR1 said:

That's a good question, perhaps God is the existence itself.

"If God created the Universe then who or what created God??"This the quote that mauGR1 is replying to.

 

I recently went in search for god to justify the gospel songs I play on my slide guitar originally played by Blind Willie Johnson in 1928,one of his songs is on the gold disc of recordings travelling in the Voyager space craft that recently left the solar system.The first place I searched for God was the dictionary and that's where I found God under the letter G in the dictionary.My intention was to get a definition of God so as to continue my search,well god had a few definitions so I checked a few dictionaries and for the most common definition was "supreme being",so I looked up the word "being" and it says "something that exists" now this is where I ditch the word "supreme" as it just confuses the issue for me.

  So now "something that exists" to me includes "everything and everywhere" which seems to sound a lot like the universe.

  So to me it sounds like God didn't create the universe but rather God is the universe.

  So now I can play my Blind Willie Johnson gospel songs without feeling weird. 

 There seems to be as many definitions of God as there are people discussing God,but few actually express their definition of God in their arguments wether for or against which makes it difficult to get a cohesive debate going on the topic.

  I am an anti religious person but I am quite comfortable with my definition of God being the Universe that is everything and everywhere now try and tell me that it (not he or she) doesn't exist. 

[Skeptic7]

3 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

"If God created the Universe then who or what created God??"This the quote that mauGR1 is replying to.

 

I recently went in search for god to justify the gospel songs I play on my slide guitar originally played by Blind Willie Johnson in 1928,one of his songs is on the gold disc of recordings travelling in the Voyager space craft that recently left the solar system.The first place I searched for God was the dictionary and that's where I found God under the letter G in the dictionary.My intention was to get a definition of God so as to continue my search,well god had a few definitions so I checked a few dictionaries and for the most common definition was "supreme being",so I looked up the word "being" and it says "something that exists" now this is where I ditch the word "supreme" as it just confuses the issue for me.

  So now "something that exists" to me includes "everything and everywhere" which seems to sound a lot like the universe.

  So to me it sounds like God didn't create the universe but rather God is the universe.

  So now I can play my Blind Willie Johnson gospel songs without feeling weird. 

 There seems to be as many definitions of God as there are people discussing God,but few actually express their definition of God in their arguments wether for or against which makes it difficult to get a cohesive debate going on the topic.

  I am an anti religious person but I am quite comfortable with my definition of God being the Universe that is everything and everywhere now try and tell me that it (not he or she) doesn't exist. 

We already have a word for the Universe...it's Universe. That why when you look up "God" it doesn't say "The Universe". But you're free to label it whatever you please. You could tell me you believe your guitar is "god" (or your beer/coffee mug or your toilet...whatever). While I wouldn't share that belief...I wouldn't tell you they don't exist, same as I wouldn't tell you the Universe doesn't exist. Now if you start claiming "it" (your guitar, mug, toilet) can perform miracles and other supernatural feats, is all-knowing and all-powerful, created everything, answer prayers and other such craziness...THAT is when I start to demand evidence. And if people start trying to tell others how to live their lives based on dogma dictated by your "god" and try to start legislating and influencing government based on such dogma...THAT is when the BIG problems and pushback begin.

 

Also, it's not cool to tell others that unless they accept and worship your Universe "god" or Commode "god"...they are gonna suffocate in the Frozen Vacuum of Space for all eternity or Drown and Wallow in Feces for all eternity. 

 

Live your life. Believe in whatever "god(s)" you choose. Worship it all you want. Just DON'T impose those beliefs on others and DON'T expect/require or threaten others to accept, agree, acquiesce or follow. 

[mauGR1]

2 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Live your life. Believe in whatever "god(s)" you choose. Worship it all you want. Just DON'T impose those beliefs on others and DON'T expect/require or threaten others to accept, agree, acquiesce or follow. 

Calm down, nobody is trying to impose any beliefs on you, at least on TVF. It's good to be skeptical, no need to be paranoid.????

[Odysseus123]

26 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Calm down, nobody is trying to impose any beliefs on you, at least on TVF. It's good to be skeptical, no need to be paranoid.????

I dunno as I hear that Quetzalcoatyl ("Big Quetzy" to his devotees) is kinda after him because of all the naughty things he has been saying on TVF.Beware the obsidian blade and don't go near any pyramids during the solstice..is the only advice I can offer.

[mauGR1]

9 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

I dunno as I hear that Quetzalcoatyl ("Big Quetzy" to his devotees) is kinda after him because of all the naughty things he has been saying on TVF.Beware the obsidian blade and don't go near any pyramids during the solstice..is the only advice I can offer.

I just had a word and a glass of wine with ole Quetzy, nothing to fear, he said. 

Edited August 15, 2019 by mauGR1

[Odysseus123]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I just had a word and a glass of wine with ole Quetzy, nothing to fear, he said. 

Well..Quetzy is kinda capricious that way..

By the way-have you noticed that the price of sacrificial virgins keeps rising on Amazon?Postage is quite ruinous these days.

 

Must be the strong Baht.

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Well..Quetzy is kinda capricious that way..

By the way-have you noticed that the price of sacrificial virgins keeps rising on Amazon?Postage is quite ruinous these days.

 

Must be the strong Baht.

let's not worry about ole Quetzy, when he's drunk he's a peaceful guy.

Yep, the sacrificial virgins are expensive these days, I blame feminism, that funny new cult.

[FarFlungFalang]

8 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Also, it's not cool to tell others that unless they accept and worship your Universe "god" or Commode "god"...they are gonna suffocate in the Frozen Vacuum of Space for all eternity or Drown and Wallow in Feces for all eternity. 

 

Live your life. Believe in whatever "god(s)" you choose. Worship it all you want. Just DON'T impose those beliefs on others and DON'T expect/require or threaten others to accept, agree, acquiesce or follow. 

Like I said I'm anti religious and agree with much of what you say about religion.

  It has been known for some time that two words can have the same or similar meanings and for one word to have two different meanings.

  I would be interested to hear your definition of the word God.

  I don't worship,what makes you think I worship,why would you bring the word worship into the argument?Worshipping is a religious thing I don't do religious thing so I'd rather you don't imply a religious bent to twist the argument into a religious one.

 Are you accusing me of threatening people?

  Your argument kind of falls away into a hysterical rant at the end with allegations and assumptions that I'm some kind of religious nut,please try and keep your argument on a calm intellectual level.  

[notmyself]

4 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Calm down, nobody is trying to impose any beliefs on you, at least on TVF. It's good to be skeptical, no need to be paranoid.????

 

Repeatedly hearing the same long falsified arguments being put forward can cause an increase in frustration level. That being said… how would religion propagate if not through imposition, given it is a faith based position?

 

A fellow member said something about the Universe being God. Member S7 pointed out that we already have a word or designation, Universe^[1]. Imagine a set (a+b+c) and adding an additional set ((a+b+c)). Sure... have at it horse.

 

1. U/u

 

 

[mauGR1]

4 hours ago, notmyself said:

 

Repeatedly hearing the same long falsified arguments being put forward can cause an increase in frustration level. That being said… how would religion propagate if not through imposition, given it is a faith based position?

 

A fellow member said something about the Universe being God. Member S7 pointed out that we already have a word or designation, Universe^[1]. Imagine a set (a+b+c) and adding an additional set ((a+b+c)). Sure... have at it horse.

 

1. U/u

 

 

I would compare religion to a stick, which can be useful on a difficult mountain path. Although some would use it to beat their enemies, it's just a stick.

Although you seem to disregard faith, you put a lot of faith in logic. Logic and faith are godlike qualities imo, and both can be misused.

The fact that we can't explain god, it gives credit to its existence, I also think that the universe is god, but God is a bit more than that.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 9:46 PM, TGIR said:

In my opinion there are two subjects that no-one really wants to address.  Since I was 15 I've wondered about these two things and answers have not been forthcoming.  

 

1)  Prior to the "Big Bang" and/or Jesus, what as there?  Was there a beginning to the beginning?  If not, how was there a beginning?  How can you get something from nothing?

 

2)  This is really good and I haven't had anyone even attempt the answer:  Where did God come from?

 

Once I have these answers I will believe in whatever or wherever they lead me.   Until then I will put my faith in the Church of the NFL.

 

 

 

I know this is page 135 or something, but all that has been well and truly addressed earlier.

I think we've passed all that now.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I would compare religion to a stick, which can be useful on a difficult mountain path. Although some would use it to beat their enemies, it's just a stick.

Although you seem to disregard faith, you put a lot of faith in logic. Logic and faith are godlike qualities imo, and both can be misused.

The fact that we can't explain god, it gives credit to its existence, I also think that the universe is god, but God is a bit more than that.

I would think that the universe, life and everything is a manifestation of God, and I really don't think he/she/it is happy about the way humans have destroyed his/her/it's planet. Retribution may be coming.

Edited August 16, 2019 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, notmyself said:

 

Repeatedly hearing the same long falsified arguments being put forward can cause an increase in frustration level. That being said… how would religion propagate if not through imposition, given it is a faith based position?

 

A fellow member said something about the Universe being God. Member S7 pointed out that we already have a word or designation, Universe^[1]. Imagine a set (a+b+c) and adding an additional set ((a+b+c)). Sure... have at it horse.

 

1. U/u

 

 

While faith may be a part of religion, I doubt religion has much in common with faith.

Of course religion was imposed for centuries. How else would the men in funny hats get rich and powerful?

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 1:15 PM, notmyself said:

 

It paints a picture by all accounts. To believe it to be true is the wish to be a slave. That is aside and off topic because the result would be the same regardless of the existence of a god. My foodie friend over in Tehran calls it foolishness. Her English is pretty good but I was yet surprised when she used that word. Nice lady... always brings me top quality Persian saffron. Best in the world.

 

As I recall a couple of members have put forward the idea that religion was invented to subjugate others while I would posit that it is was and still is a human characteristic that as we may claim majesty, we are still very stupid ultimately due to our gullibility. What started out as going to the/an elder for information/knowledge gave to inventing stories because they never had an answer. It should also be noted that this would have long predated writing and that life expectancy would have been maybe 30 years so few would have known their grandparents. Over time those 'among us' whom are of a nefarious nature saw that a sea of credulity could be very useful to their agenda. Some members may argue that that is religion but their belief is not. Religions, cults, spirituality, Woowoo, voodoo, muti and so on are all facets of the same untruth.

 

[I was just about to hit submit and figured I should clarify. By untrue I mean claim 'x' has never been shown to be true. At this rate I'll need a bigger shed.]

 

Another fellow member mentioned from whence this supposed god came from. Infinite regress or not everything has to created... generally the latter is adhered to.

 

A piece on woo as mentioned above....

 

 

 

Also, no one has proven from what the universe came. This iteration of the universe started with the big bang, but there may have been countless iterations before as universes are born expand, die, contract and enter a black hole, to re emerge as another universe. Soooo, when did it all start, and from where did the matter that makes the universe originate?

 

To some, the universe was created from nothing, expands till all the sun's fuel runs out and then there is a great void full of dead stars for ever after, and we, with all our dreams and hopes and fears are nothing more than particles of dust on dead planets for ever and ever and ever.

That's not something I want to believe.

[Sunmaster]

18 hours ago, giddyup said:

Not at all. You have just said you have found something more real than day to day life without explaining exactly what it is. If it involves suspending reality and having faith, you will have lost me immediately.

No no, I'm not one to give away my power in exchange for second hand knowledge and "faith", which for me is just another word to describe "complacency in not-knowing".

"Reality" is a tricky word. Is it that narrow band of light- and sound wave frequency we, as humans, are able to perceive?
What if for some reason you would be able to perceive a wider spectrum of frequencies? Let's say see ultraviolet or infrared waves and hear sub- or supersonic sounds. Would that mean that you suspend your "old" reality, or would it just mean that your reality has now gained a much wider field of operation?

Surely this would make the new (wider) reality more real than the previous one that was more restricted.

Let's say, hypothetically, such a man exists and he tries to convey to others what he's seeing and hearing. It would require a big leap of faith to believe him, but for him it's as real as it gets. Most will ridicule him if not outright attack him for what he's saying, yet for him there's no question about the veracity of his experience, there's no going back.

This guy then manages to find other like-minded people and they start to work out some guidelines to learn how to widen ones frequency perception. They might even write a book about it.

With time then, the teachings in the book get diluted, changed, and hijacked for other purposes.
Finally, in the age of enlightenment, science and better knowledge sheds a light on those ancient deceptions and rightly exposes them for all to see. 

But does that mean that the original teachings (UV and IR in this story) are also deceptions? Of course not. They were there long before and will be there long after this planet has gone to dust.

 

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

No no, I'm not one to give away my power in exchange for second hand knowledge and "faith", which for me is just another word to describe "complacency in not-knowing".

Reading fiction requires "the willing suspension of disbelief"; I suspect religious belief has the same need

[Skeptic7]

11 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Like I said I'm anti religious and agree with much of what you say about religion.

  It has been known for some time that two words can have the same or similar meanings and for one word to have two different meanings.

  I would be interested to hear your definition of the word God.

  I don't worship,what makes you think I worship,why would you bring the word worship into the argument?Worshipping is a religious thing I don't do religious thing so I'd rather you don't imply a religious bent to twist the argument into a religious one.

 Are you accusing me of threatening people?

  Your argument kind of falls away into a hysterical rant at the end with allegations and assumptions that I'm some kind of religious nut,please try and keep your argument on a calm intellectual level.  

Dude...Not accusing you of anything. Not at all. My post evolved into a generalization, showing how it's possible to believe and worship and redefine words (which don't need redefining) without repercussions from anyone. Only when subjective beliefs become oppressive, dangerous and/or infringe on others' freedoms whom don't share those same beliefs, like many tend to do over time, is when the problems start. Sorry if you interpreted this as a personal attack. It wasn't. I also do not at all consider you a "nut" of any kind. Others here, well...

 

Now if someone wants to claim god is The Sun or The Universe or Something Greater Than Us or other Woo...no problem. HOWEVER, when those types of claims are made on a public forum, such as this, then those claims have voluntarily been made fair game. 

 

In answer to your query...I don't have a personal definition of "god", which would be irrelevant anyway. The word itself is irrelevant IMO. For purposes of discussion, when the word becomes necessary to use, I tend to go with standard and long established and accepted dictionary definitions. 

 

Sorry for any misunderstanding or confusion. Hope this clears it up a bit. And please don't tell me how to present my points. That is not your place. 

[notmyself]

14 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I would think that the universe, life and everything is a manifestation of God, and I really don't think he/she/it is happy about the way humans have destroyed his/her/it's planet. Retribution may be coming.

 

Could be. Yahweh downed all the pregnant women. 

[ThaiBunny]

9 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Only when subjective beliefs become oppressive, dangerous and/or infringe on others' freedoms whom don't share those same beliefs, like many tend to do over time, is when the problems start.

Surely one of the purposes of organised religion traditionally has been to encourage social cohesion. Non-believers threaten that cohesion. It's only in the secular West that we regard religion as an entirely personal affair, and that's a fairly recent development. As well, both Christianity and Islam (the latter being merely an expression of the Nestorian Christian heresy) encourage their believers to seek converts, at the very least because they believe in eternal punishment for non-believers

Edited August 16, 2019 by ThaiBunny

[mauGR1]

13 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

Surely one of the purposes of organised religion traditionally has been to encourage social cohesion.

You say nothing !

If not for kingdoms and cults, we would still dwelling in caves, hunting and gathering for survival.

Sure, civilisation comes at a price, but I don't know anyone who would like to be back to tribal life.

In short, it's not a good idea to throw away the baby with the dirty water imho.

 

[notmyself]

In the interest of community cohesion I've started to call the invisible leprechaun Colin, Dave. That way it avoids confusion.

[Elad]

On 8/15/2019 at 3:36 PM, FarFlungFalang said:

one of his songs is on the gold disc of recordings travelling in the Voyager space craft that recently left the solar system.

Before Voyager 1 left the inner solar system, it pointed its camera towards Earth and took this image from about 4 billion miles away. The beams of light are just sunlight reflected from the camera.