England.

[wolf359]

A dodgy thread at best, lets keep it on topic or loose the thread completely, thanks!

I take it the 'off topic' refers to my previous post? interesting, there has been several posts degrading Englishmen over the past few months and I just wanted some clarification from a moderator what constitutes a racist insult.

[samran]

Funny,

I was an immigrant to the UK for a couple of years, a HSMP permit holder, so I've got a bit of perspective, moving 'the other way'.

As some have mentioned, outside the larger cities, England will always be England.

In the inner cities though you see a ‘problem’ which, if we are going to talk about demographics, applies evenly to white, black, brown, and green coloured people. What Britain is witnessing is the fruition of the effective neglect of a group of people who have become a 'forgotten' class.

Uneducated parents, who in today’s workforce are unemployable due to lack of skills, bringing up children and not passing on the requisite skills for moving up the social ladder. These parents often unequipped with the skills to raise their kids properly, as they were never taught themselves. The Supernanny series isn't some gimmick (I actually have met the person who was offered the job on TV, but turned it down), it is actually a reflection of what happens on a daily basis in society, which leads to overall social degradation for the worst off in society.

Pockets of the London Borough of Southwark (for instance) around Albion way and the Old Kent Road, are purely white, but suffer from the same problems as further down the road in Brixton for instance. As much as people might bleat that immigrants don't mix, these groups of people don't mix either (and haven’t for generations). Children aren't equipped with what they need to know, and are disenfranchised from the participating in the work force and become unemployed. They grow up and (if I am going to generalise) repeat the mistakes of their parents

Immigrants as a problem? The first generation always struggles (as many punters here in LOS are finding out), but it is the second generation who really thrive. But it is a matter of degrees. Did you know for instance that children of Nigerians and Somalians will do much better educationally and employment wise that a second generation Caribbean child? It has alot to do with the 'culture' of the subgroup we are talking about...including the sub culture of poor white people. The problem is as a bystander, they are all immigrants/dole bludgers, and that is that. No one bothers to look further.

Should the UK cut off immigration? No, though the system needs to be reformed to be a bit more consistent, and face the reality of the fact that with a booming economy, people are going to want to work there, and will claim that they are refugees to get in. It has to be combined with proper educational opportunities for younger native disadvantanged Brits (black, brown and white), but the job of helping their parents re-enter the workforce after being long-term unemployed will always be hard.

Under my own steam based on my skills, I've applied and extended my immigration status in the UK as a person not with an EU spouse and not as an EU national. The system, having gone through it, is massively 'fugged'. You either are super-dooperly qualified to enter the UK, or you aren't (and hence forced to be a ‘refugee’). Compare this (humbly) with say Australia, where the system is flexible enough to give priority to qualified hairdressers and boiler makers before accountants and (sadly) economists. And, with an economy like the UK has (massive and growing), even EU enlargement isn’t going to help solve all your labour shortage problems. You have to create a system which lets people you need in, and then let them just get on with it.

So is the UK less great than it was??…I can’t answer as I only spent a couple of years there. I think it is a pretty good country all up, and when compared with say France, are miles ahead. I’d take it as a personal point of pride that there were so many people actually wanting to move to my country.

[wolf359]

Either way, the use of racist terminology will result in suspensions, post removal and possible thread locking... of course if you see something you find offensive, feel free to use the report function, otherwise i will use my own judgment on what is considered racist.

Do you consider the term 'Pommie' racist?

[Wolfie]

I take it the 'off topic' refers to my previous post? interesting, there has been several posts degrading Englishmen over the past few months and I just wanted some clarification from a moderator what constitutes a racist insult.

No wolf, the off topic post was referring to the John Wayne/American Indian stuff posted before yours

[samran]

Either way, the use of racist terminology will result in suspensions, post removal and possible thread locking... of course if you see something you find offensive, feel free to use the report function, otherwise i will use my own judgment on what is considered racist.

Do you consider the term 'Pommie' racist?

Explain how would it be racist? Bit like calling a New Zealander a Kiwi....

[Wolfie]

Do you consider the term 'Pommie' racist?

Not especially, do you?

[wolf359]

Do you consider the term 'Pommie' racist?

Not especially, do you?

Yes when it is used in conjunction with other derogatory remarks. As a matter of further interest where are you from?

[Nignoy]

some pommies come to paradise in QLD, australia, to live just to get away from their wretched motherland.

I am a pom living in wonderful queensland, it is a great place to live , but it has also become a dangerous place to live!! and I dont mean because of the wildlife when was the last time there was a gun battle on a sunday afternoon in an english country village, we had one sunday before last!!and as far as unemployment is concerned, the % of unemployed per capita here is higher than UK, seasonal farm agricultural workers are brought in from overseas,not because of the wages , an unskilled strawberry or pineapple picker here can earn 1000dollars a week, but the local unemployed wont do the work,because it interferes with their boozing or drugdealing Nignoy

[terry57]

I'm not going to close this thread (yet) but i will state once, clearly and for the record, that racist insults will not be tolerated on Thaivisa.com. So if you wish to continue to debate this topic then keep the racist trash out of it. Anyone failing to do this will be suspended immediately pending moderator review.

An interesting point, how do you as a moderator define a racist insult? is it OK for an Australian to call an Englishman a 'Pommie' especially when he adds not washing or wearing socks? if it was said about the Thais the post would be closed like lightening !! or is it not racist to insult an Englishman.

actually wolf,

i think that i can help you with your very resonable question.

all australians know that us english gentlemen do indeed wash our selves.

it might only be every 4 days but its a lie to say we do not wash.

also those aussie convicts know that that we do surely wear socks.

it might only be with sandles on a 40 deg day , but never the less we do wear socks.

thank you very much,

the very english reverend,

terence.

[Wolfie]

Yes when it is used in conjunction with other derogatory remarks. As a matter of further interest where are you from?

England, Midlands. Altho i do have welsh blood in me also.

'Pommie' was originally termed from the phrase "Prisoner of mother england' as i understand it, i don't really class that as racist. Same as i don't really consider 'Yank' a racist term for an American, nor do i class 'Taffy' as a racist term for a welsh man. (But then i guess i'm fairly easy going and there are others in this world and on this board that disagree with me) but terminology such as Paki, n*gger etc are racist terms regardless of the context of when they are used... thats the kind of thing i'm removing from this thread.

Should i suspend myself for the above comment?

If you don't like the actions i take, or you think i didn't go far enough on the cleanup of the thread, you have several options...

1. PM an Administrator with your points

2. Use the report button to highlight the areas your unhappy with

3. PM your favorite Mod who will look at the matter as a third party and decide the best course of action.

4. PM me privately and we can go over your concerns and decide whats the best way to handle the situation.

I'm human (yes, even vampires were human!) and quite approachable really!

p.s. This thread has been highlighted in the moderator forum, so instead of just me and Samran looking at this, the entire moderator team and administrator team have been made aware of this and asked for their input. (which is nothing new, we do that a lot)

[wolf359]

England, Midlands. Altho i do have welsh blood in me also.

'Pommie' was originally termed from the phrase "Prisoner of mother england' as i understand it, i don't really class that as racist. Same as i don't really consider 'Yank' a racist term for an American, nor do i class 'Taffy' as a racist term for a welsh man. (But then i guess i'm fairly easy going and there are others in this world and on this board that disagree with me) but terminology such as Paki, n*gger etc are racist terms regardless of the context of when they are used... thats the kind of thing i'm removing from this thread.

Should i suspend myself for the above comment?

If you don't like the actions i take, or you think i didn't go far enough on the cleanup of the thread, you have several options...

1. PM an Administrator with your points

2. Use the report button to highlight the areas your unhappy with

3. PM your favorite Mod who will look at the matter as a third party and decide the best course of action.

4. PM me privately and we can go over your concerns and decide whats the best way to handle the situation.

I'm human (yes, even vampires were human!) and quite approachable really!

This is interesting I too am from the Midlands. I have no problem with the way you are moderating this board, I was only seeking to identify what you (as a moderator) would consider to be a racist remark. As this is an 'open' forum we are all going to have different views on all our subjects. I for one would welcome a sensible debate about the current state of my home country.

I don't understand your reference to vampires though! I cannot say I have ever met any!

[terry57]

and the rest come to live in perth, walking around with there hairy white legs, wearing there sandles with long socks on a 40 degree day.

We NEVER wear sandles and long white socks.....you are confusing us with Germans or Americans !

i am very sorry mr pauly,

but i have first hand experience with the english gentlemen and there fetish for sandles and long socks.

ive even seen them walking on the beaches like this, and many australian citizens have been rushed to hospital suffering from shock.

i must tell you the australian government is very close to passing a law to out law this very disturbing sight, as its not fair on the good people of australia to see this shocking behaviour.

anyway, it dont worry me, as i wear my socks without the sandles and the aussies dont seem to mind that.

thank you very much

terence, a very fine english gentleman.

[bendix]

I dunno. Maybe it's just me, but I truly am finding this a genuinely fascinating Thai-related discussion.

[Wolfie]

This is interesting I too am from the Midlands. I have no problem with the way you are moderating this board, I was only seeking to identify what you (as a moderator) would consider to be a racist remark. As this is an 'open' forum we are all going to have different views on all our subjects. I for one would welcome a sensible debate about the current state of my home country.

I don't understand your reference to vampires though! I cannot say I have ever met any!

Well you've met one now

All i want is sensible discussion on the subject, i'm english and i can see the attitudes of/about my country taking a nose dive, talking to friends in the UK and abroad i can see this is a well discussed and hot issue. Discussion of this ilk will always have negativity in them as people try to justify the way they feel (rightly or wrongly) but if we can keep the racist stuff out of it we stand a chance of getting some interesting insight out of this thread.

What i might consider racist might be ok to others, what i consider ok might be seen as racist by others, i am but one person, i am not right in all things... fortunately i dont have to moderate this board alone

[wolf359]

i am not right in all things... fortunately i dont have to moderate this board alone

Just as well as that would be considered a dictatorship!!!! now that would be an interesting debate !! I know

[Boo]

Whenever I see these kinds of threads I wonder if the main whiners about their own home country, the one that provided them an education, money enough to get on a plane & where they will inveriably go running should it all go tits up in LOS would actually willingly give up the citizenship of their birth or their passport & try to make it forever in LOS (without the saftey blanket of "back home") I highly doubt it but ho hum, carry on with the moaning. I'm sure it will look pretty nice if the thai govt changes their immigration laws again & you find yourself out in the cold.

[GuestHouse]

Irony lives.

A Brit living in Thailand complains about foreigners going to live in the UK.

Come on guys own up, you were on the soda when you posted such half baked nonsense.

Sober up now and get your head around the idea that this England/Britain that you are so happy to run down is exactly where you'll drag your sorry @ss if and when your life in Thailand goes down the pan.

[pokoal2000]

I think most of you are absolutely crazy and not lived anywhere else. Why do you think so many people from all over the World come to UK? Because it is still the greatest country in the World. People make the country and especially the older generations of English people are very caring, polite and nicest people I have ever met. and I live in quite few places. The whole democratic system is very good; you get what most people voted for, everything works, hardly any corruption, goods made in England are good quality and law applies to anybody regardless of race or wealth. What about the English sense of humor? Nonexistent anywhere else. Nobody dies in England because they can’t afford the medical treatment, nobody goes hungry. No way can you compare England to Thailand. OK, crime is rife in big cities, but what other place you know, where it is different? I am from Kent and it is much safer then most Asian countryside.

Majority of English people are very honest, never had to lock my door when I went to the beach, can’t say the same about living here. The only problem is that cost of living is gone up so much that it is getting to be real struggle to make the ends meet, if you don’t have decent job, plus the shitty weather.

[geronimo]

Exactly what the title says really.

Being born and bred in London I've seen a decline in the place that in my view is down to the lax immigration laws we've had in the UK for years.Most of the things that made the UK great have all but disapeared and the rising crime figures are scary to say the least.

Lots of people here on the forum moan when talking about the recent immigration changes regarding visas etc but personally I agree with Thailand getting tougher.Thailand only needs to look at a few other western countries to see how "cultural integration" works (or doesnt work).

Just wanted to know other peoples view on why the UK has become a hole of <deleted>.

Regards,

Sky.

I left the UK 20 years ago because I saw it is a sinking ship. The people are inherently negative and they seem to settle for a lot less than they should. They live with this by saying "Ät least I have more than he does" they are basically lazy by nature and extremely narrow minded. I'm suprised there are any poeple under 30 still there!!!!

Oh and by the way the weather sucks!!!!!

[pokoal2000]

Does having too much money make a country bad and the people arrogant?...I dont think so.

As for the law being too strict..Its strict for the minor crimes and slack for the more serious crimes.

Which country am I comparing the UK with?...Im not.I stated that I have seen a decline in the UK over the years and this is one of the reasons I relocated to Thailand.I have travelled to many countries and can list a few I would rather live in than the UK..Australia included,great place.

My main area of concern for the Uk is the crime rate,its out of control.I'm from South East London and the whole place is teeming with crime.Most of this crime is commited by immigrants and usually the government and the media turn a blind eye to this type of crime because they cant be seen as "racist". It's been out of hand for a long time and it's getting worse.

And you think things are better in Thailand? The UK would have a very long way to fall before it reached the level of Thailand in almost every way. Thats why the UK is a Developed country and Thailand a Developing country. Do you think the police are better in Thailand? Do you think the criminals are better behaved? There are steel bars on every window in Thailand for a reason you know. Being ferang there is a good chance that if you ever have a dispute with a Thai, and the law is involved, you will be able to witness the exact opposite of what you are complaining about in the UK. That should make you happy.

You are now a ferang in Thailand. You do not have that many rights. Racism is ok here in Thailand. Good choice.

very much agree with that, well said.

[Skyline]

Well I suppose everyones idea of racism is different.As others have said is calling an Englishman a "pom" racist?Depends on the individual really.Even on this forum there are countless people with never a good word to say about the Thais in general and have been allowed to post freely with their "racist" views.

Markbkk,

You lived in SE London for some time and the problem is people like me, right?You must have been walking around with rose tinted spectacles and a copy of The Guardian for your time spent there.

Is calling me a "nasty piece of work" really needed?Do I know you?No,probably not.

You're correct in stating that England doesn't want or need me,thats pretty obvious.I do go back occasionally for certain contracts for work etc and I was amazed that even the Inland revenue told me I was no longer considered to be a British citizen due to the time ive spent abroad.Amazing.

Anyway,at least some posters have actually stated why they feel England is going down the shute which was my original question.My views on immigration were one of my few gripes about England,thats why I mentioned it.

So,I'm off to the pub wearing my Millwall shirt ,Union Jack underpants and my bulldog on a lead.

[solent01]

Oh dear, I kind of thought this thread would deteriorate to this level, oh well, such is life it would seem.

As I said before, I'm English, and I love my country, however, I know it's not perfect, along with every other country in the world. I also love Thailand, out of the two I choose to live in LOS, but if the day comes and I decide to leave LOS, I always know I have some where else to go, England, (not sure if I would though, I would probably explore new horizons)

[wolf359]

Irony lives.

A Brit living in Thailand complains about foreigners going to live in the UK.

Come on guys own up, you were on the soda when you posted such half baked nonsense.

Sober up now and get your head around the idea that this England/Britain that you are so happy to run down is exactly where you'll drag your sorry @ss if and when your life in Thailand goes down the pan.

'Half baked nonsence'? I think most people who are on this tack fail to understand one thing, as an Englishman living in Thailand I think I have the right to complain about the majority of foreigners moving to England. Moving here I have had to stand on my own two feet, I never expected to get any help from the Thai government and I moved here knowing all too well that if I fell ill I would have to pay for my treatment etc etc.... bacsically I am not a burden to the Thai taxpayer.

Now can the same be said of the majorityof immigrants in the UK? and yes if all goes tits up here I will move back to England! having spent all my working life contributing to the welfare state.

[Lucifer]

Irony lives.

A Brit living in Thailand complains about foreigners going to live in the UK.

Come on guys own up, you were on the soda when you posted such half baked nonsense.

Sober up now and get your head around the idea that this England/Britain that you are so happy to run down is exactly where you'll drag your sorry @ss if and when your life in Thailand goes down the pan.

'Half baked nonsence'? I think most people who are on this tack fail to understand one thing, as an Englishman living in Thailand I think I have the right to complain about the majority of foreigners moving to England. Moving here I have had to stand on my own two feet, I never expected to get any help from the Thai government and I moved here knowing all too well that if I fell ill I would have to pay for my treatment etc etc.... bacsically I am not a burden to the Thai taxpayer.

Now can the same be said of the majorityof immigrants in the UK? and yes if all goes tits up here I will move back to England! having spent all my working life contributing to the welfare state.

Lets not forget, the wealth created by the Brits. in the past 300 years is from the backs of the so called immigrants who are now, no longer welcomed in the UK.

[Skyline]

Wolf,

Couldnt agree more with your points above.

Most western foreigners come to Thailand because they have a work contract here,a family here or just for the love of the country.Most are wealthy enough to have a decent life here and cause no burden to the country.This is a different story to that of immigrants into the UK.

[baboon]

A dodgy thread at best, lets keep it on topic or loose the thread completely, thanks!

I take it the 'off topic' refers to my previous post? interesting, there has been several posts degrading Englishmen over the past few months and I just wanted some clarification from a moderator what constitutes a racist insult.

Rascist - Someone winning an argument with a liberal.

[StateSix]

I think most of you are absolutely crazy and not lived anywhere else. Why do you think so many people from all over the World come to UK? Because it is still the greatest country in the World. People make the country and especially the older generations of English people are very caring, polite and nicest people I have ever met. and I live in quite few places. The whole democratic system is very good; you get what most people voted for, everything works, hardly any corruption, goods made in England are good quality and law applies to anybody regardless of race or wealth. What about the English sense of humor? Nonexistent anywhere else. Nobody dies in England because they can’t afford the medical treatment, nobody goes hungry. No way can you compare England to Thailand. OK, crime is rife in big cities, but what other place you know, where it is different? I am from Kent and it is much safer then most Asian countryside.

Majority of English people are very honest, never had to lock my door when I went to the beach, can’t say the same about living here. The only problem is that cost of living is gone up so much that it is getting to be real struggle to make the ends meet, if you don’t have decent job, plus the shitty weather.

You never had to lock your door when you went to the beach????? Maybe in Kent you can do that, but in Bolton the little smackhead scrotes will be straight in nicking anything they can get their hands on.

The NHS is a shambles at the moment and people are dying because their local NHS trust can't afford to pay for certain treatments, or the waiting time is so long. People do go hungry also, maybe not to the extent of other countries, but it does happen.

Having said that if I left Thailand, I would almost certainly go back to the UK.

[samran]

Irony lives.

A Brit living in Thailand complains about foreigners going to live in the UK.

Come on guys own up, you were on the soda when you posted such half baked nonsense.

Sober up now and get your head around the idea that this England/Britain that you are so happy to run down is exactly where you'll drag your sorry @ss if and when your life in Thailand goes down the pan.

'Half baked nonsence'? I think most people who are on this tack fail to understand one thing, as an Englishman living in Thailand I think I have the right to complain about the majority of foreigners moving to England. Moving here I have had to stand on my own two feet, I never expected to get any help from the Thai government and I moved here knowing all too well that if I fell ill I would have to pay for my treatment etc etc.... bacsically I am not a burden to the Thai taxpayer.

Now can the same be said of the majorityof immigrants in the UK? and yes if all goes tits up here I will move back to England! having spent all my working life contributing to the welfare state.

you've just contradicted yourself there. On one hand you ask everyone here to look at your situation individually, which is what should be done. We could have just charged you as being another poverty packing visa runner.

Having done that, you turn around asking what appears to be a rhetorical question and slag off a 'majority' of immigrants to the UK? Does this include Thai spouses, or are they OK? I mean, they get instant access to NHS etc without ever having contributed...

I was an immigrant to the UK. Am I a welfare cheat?...I mean I hold an Australian and Thai passport, got to use the NHS extensively, got to vote in your elections as a non-citizen. I am a bit of a mix, but could be confused as a 'paki so and so' by some of your equally analytical friends.

As for the person who says what is racism....well put it this way, you know it when you see it.

[helicoptor]

Im glad im out of it

[wolf359]

you've just contradicted yourself there. On one hand you ask everyone here to look at your situation individually, which is what should be done. We could have just charged you as being another poverty packing visa runner.

Having done that, you turn around asking what appears to be a rhetorical question and slag off a 'majority' of immigrants to the UK? Does this include Thai spouses, or are they OK? I mean, they get instant access to NHS etc without ever having contributed...

I was an immigrant to the UK. Am I a welfare cheat?...I mean I hold an Australian and Thai passport, got to use the NHS extensively, got to vote in your elections as a non-citizen. I am a bit of a mix, but could be confused as a 'paki so and so' by some of your equally analytical friends.

As for the person who says what is racism....well put it this way, you know it when you see it.

Did you go to England as an immigrant to get a job? why? were you provided with free accommodation? money for your your family? etc.etc... or did you have to stand on your own two feet? the 'majority' I am complaining about are the people who see England as a free ride.

Am I a racist? as much as the next man.