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First day of U.S.-China trade talks end; Trump's tariff hike set to take effect


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24 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Well if things go up at Walmart maybe look for American products. I for example buy my free range eggs from a local farmer. I also know they are what the farmer says the are. The eggs are twice the cost of Walmart but they are huge and have deep orange yolks as opposed to the thin yellow yolks of the typical grocery store eggs.

 

China's main trouble might be that it could take China to unite an otherwise divisive cultural landscape in the USA. The USA always functions the best with a clearly defined enemy. Most consumer electronics and such can be purchases from South Korea, Taiwan, and other places.

 

For now the tariffs won't come into play until June which means any boat leaving China now will be exempted but they better hurry. One bad day at sea and BOOM you pay. This is hardball at its best.

I don’t shop at Walmart they cheat their employees and imo they are the poster child(so to speak)for our trade deficit 

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7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

As virtually any economist will tell you, one of the chief effects of a country raising tariffs is to raise the value of that country's currency. So Trump's tariffs will also hurt US exports.

Also, those import figures are greatly inflated. Since that Samsung phone gets assembled shipped from China, statistically it gets counted as a Chinese export even though very little value is added in China. 

And your egg example is completely irrelevant since the US is not exactly dependent on Chinese eggs. Agriculture is one area where historically the US has a surplus with China. Maybe Americans should up their consumption of bacon to make up for the lost trade with China? On the other hand consumer electonics...

There are a bunch of Chinese boats rushing to get to the USA now before the tariffs take place. My egg example was just one more reason you don't need Walmart. China will face a backlash from mid-America and people will begin to use Walmart less. 

 

The price to buy a nice tool from America such as Stanley, Milwaukee, or Fridgidaire will become less of an issue. The Chinese are famous for selling basically a bunch of <deleted> crap. American businesses such as Apple are transitioning away because they don't want to forfeit their trade secrets to operate in China. China is quickly becoming the bully that plays in the sandbox alone because the other kids are starting to hate their practices.

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1 minute ago, Cryingdick said:

There are a bunch of Chinese boats rushing to get to the USA now before the tariffs take place. My egg example was just one more reason you don't need Walmart. China will face a backlash from mid-America and people will begin to use Walmart less. 

 

The price to buy a nice tool from America such as Stanley, Milwaukee, or Fridgidaire will become less of an issue. The Chinese are famous for selling basically a bunch of <deleted> crap. American businesses such as Apple are transitioning away because they don't want to forfeit their trade secrets to operate in China. China is quickly becoming the bully that plays in the sandbox alone because the other kids are starting to hate their practices.

What part of the USA do you live in? A theme park?

Most Americans Still Lack Emergency Savings in a Very Big Way

A frightening 60% of Americans don't have enough money in savings to cover a $1,000 emergency expense, according to new data from Bankrate. That's consistent with the 37% to 41% of U.S. adults who found themselves in an equally precarious financial situation between 2014 and 2018, when similar surveys about savings were conducted.

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/01/17/most-americans-still-lack-emergency-savings-in-a-v.aspx

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1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

What part of the USA do you live in? A theme park?

Most Americans Still Lack Emergency Savings in a Very Big Way

A frightening 60% of Americans don't have enough money in savings to cover a $1,000 emergency expense, according to new data from Bankrate. That's consistent with the 37% to 41% of U.S. adults who found themselves in an equally precarious financial situation between 2014 and 2018, when similar surveys about savings were conducted.

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/01/17/most-americans-still-lack-emergency-savings-in-a-v.aspx

Most Chinese have much less. What theme park do you live in where everybody has emergency funds, Thailand?

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1 minute ago, Cryingdick said:

Most Chinese have much less. What theme park do you live in where everybody has emergency funds, Thailand?

I guess you don't understand the significance of the lack of emergency funds. Most Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. 

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24 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Well if things go up at Walmart maybe look for American products. I for example buy my free range eggs from a local farmer. I also know they are what the farmer says the are. The eggs are twice the cost of Walmart but they are huge and have deep orange yolks as opposed to the thin yellow yolks of the typical grocery store eggs.

 

China's main trouble might be that it could take China to unite an otherwise divisive cultural landscape in the USA. The USA always functions the best with a clearly defined enemy. Most consumer electronics and such can be purchases from South Korea, Taiwan, and other places.

 

For now the tariffs won't come into play until June which means any boat leaving China now will be exempted but they better hurry.

2

 

Something may be in place that exempts ships leaving before June, but any cargo ship leaving China now will not get to the US until June, and tariffs are collected when the cargo clears customs.

 

High-end electronics generally ship airfreight.

 

Long term, tariffs only serve to punish consumers and promote cheating. Ultimately, China will not pay the tariffs, the American consumer will. Much of what China exports it subsidizes. Subsidizing exports can work indefinitely on a small scale or short term on a large scale, but it can't work indefinitely on a large scale.

 

I generally oppose tariffs and felt the steel and aluminum duties were particularly bone-headed, but if Trump is using short-term tariffs as a negotiating tool I think it could work out, but if the plan is to implement long-term tariffs with the intention of rebuilding the US manufacturing base I think it foolish. 

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23 minutes ago, Tug said:

I don’t shop at Walmart they cheat their employees and imo they are the poster child(so to speak)for our trade deficit 

 

That's pretty convenient assuming you live in Thailand. 

 

Where do you shop?

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8 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Unlike the Chinese that seem to have it all.

Wow. You walked right into thiat one:

Why Do Chinese Households Save So Much?

The figure shows that China's personal saving rate is about 25 percent and national saving is roughly 47 per- cent of GDP (in 2005, compared with 0.5 percent personal saving and 12 percent national saving in the United States)— and these savings rates have increased in recent years.

https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/htdocs/publications/es/08/ES0819.pdf

Edited by bristolboy
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11 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

I guess you don't understand the significance of the lack of emergency funds. Most Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. 

And it is sad that so many US government policies tend to encourage spending and punish saving.

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3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Wow. You walked right into thiat one:

Why Do Chinese Households Save So Much?

The figure shows that China's personal saving rate is about 25 percent and national saving is roughly 47 per- cent of GDP (in 2005, compared with 0.5 percent personal saving and 12 percent national saving in the United States)— and these savings rates have increased in recent years.

https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/htdocs/publications/es/08/ES0819.pdf

Until things get a little rough. Americans don't live six to a room. 

Edited by Cryingdick
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2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

that Wow. You walked right into thiat one:

Why Do Chinese Households Save So Much?

The figure shows that China's personal saving rate is about 25 percent and national saving is roughly 47 per- cent of GDP (in 2005, compared with 0.5 percent personal saving and 12 percent national saving in the United States)— and these savings rates have increased in recent years.

https://files.stlouisfed.org/files/htdocs/publications/es/08/ES0819.pdf

1

The Chinese save their money for the same reason people in the US used to save their money, because they knew that if they didn't save their money and something happened and they had no money, they would go hungry or have to depend on private sector handouts. 

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14 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Relocating back to the US requires a significant capital investment and time. I

Perhaps if US companies didn't keep on with the stock buybacks and inflated asset benefits for management, then there would be plenty of funds for capital investment. Don't do any CapX and you fail eventually anyway. The entire US system is now predicated on exporting jobs and inflating an asset bubble for the one percent. There will be blood in the streets when the bubble bursts.

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12 hours ago, candide said:

Companies are likely to relocate (from both USA and China) in 'neutral' countries where they can go on with integrating global value chains, without being subject to tariffs from USA or China. It may be good for ASEAN countries.

Even if this is the outcome, it is better than having all your source factories and imported goods coming from one country mainly, China. Why keep feeding your enemy? And China is the enemy. I would rather see factories go to Vietnam than China. Or even Central America and Mexico, as that would develop the American region and reduce immigration pressure.

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1 minute ago, zydeco said:

Perhaps if US companies didn't keep on with the stock buybacks and inflated asset benefits for management, then there would be plenty of funds for capital investment. Don't do any CapX and you fail eventually anyway. The entire US system is now predicated on exporting jobs and inflating an asset bubble for the one percent. There will be blood in the streets when the bubble bursts.

 

No. it is just a long time ago that people in their 40's spent all their money. It takes around $100,000 t repatriate.

 

Anyway younwould be less bitter about it had you done it.

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11 hours ago, jvs said:

How much more expensive would a product be when made in the US?Going back in time will not be easy.

 

Just imagine, maybe people look at the prices and say, "I can't afford that, right now. I had better save some money."  Savings! How about that to shake up things, Americans saving for a rainy day, instead of running up their credit cards to the max and then defaulting.

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1 minute ago, zydeco said:

Even if this is the outcome, it is better than having all your source factories and imported goods coming from one country mainly, China. Why keep feeding your enemy? And China is the enemy. I would rather see factories go to Vietnam than China. Or even Central America and Mexico, as that would develop the American region and reduce immigration pressure.

 

Yes, and major American companies are leaving China and when they leave they will not come back. Trump just won the latest battle and the Chinese need to go home and make a plan.

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1 minute ago, zydeco said:

Perhaps if US companies didn't keep on with the stock buybacks and inflated asset benefits for management, then there would be plenty of funds for capital investment. Don't do any CapX and you fail eventually anyway. The entire US system is now predicated on exporting jobs and inflating an asset bubble for the one percent. There will be blood in the streets when the bubble bursts.

 

While I generally agree so many public companies moving from a long-term view to focus on quarterly results is a big problem, I tend to disagree with what you seem to think is driving it. 

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15 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Until things get a little rough. Americans don't live six to a room. 

I don't understand. If the Chinese are accustomed to living six in a room, as you claim, that means they're much more inured to hardship than an average American.

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5 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Just imagine, maybe people look at the prices and say, "I can't afford that, right now. I had better save some money."  Savings! How about that to shake up things, Americans saving for a rainy day, instead of running up their credit cards to the max and then defaulting.

If Americans had cheaper and better medical care and much lower educational costs that would go a long way towards solving that problem.

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8 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Even if this is the outcome, it is better than having all your source factories and imported goods coming from one country mainly, China. Why keep feeding your enemy? And China is the enemy. I would rather see factories go to Vietnam than China. Or even Central America and Mexico, as that would develop the American region and reduce immigration pressure.

More likely they would just ship through a different port... 

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13 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Perhaps if US companies didn't keep on with the stock buybacks and inflated asset benefits for management, then there would be plenty of funds for capital investment. Don't do any CapX and you fail eventually anyway. The entire US system is now predicated on exporting jobs and inflating an asset bubble for the one percent. There will be blood in the streets when the bubble bursts.

Nonsense. Interest rates are so low, that borrowing wouldn't be a problem. The fact is that a developed economy can only grow so fast. Of course, if tax cuts were directed at the middle and working class people, who have a much higher marginal propensity to spend, that would provide a boost to the American economy.

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2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

If Americans had cheaper and better medical care and much lower educational costs that would go a long way towards solving that problem.

Is not K-12 free in the US?

 

 

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12 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Even if this is the outcome, it is better than having all your source factories and imported goods coming from one country mainly, China. Why keep feeding your enemy? And China is the enemy. I would rather see factories go to Vietnam than China. Or even Central America and Mexico, as that would develop the American region and reduce immigration pressure.

Just snap your fingers and make it so? There's a lot of infrastructure and knowledge that has gone into making China what it is. You should look up what happened when Apple tried to manufacture a Macbook in the USA. Many of the same problems that bedeviled this attempt also apply to setting up manufacturing facilities in developing nations.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/28/technology/iphones-apple-china-made.html

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2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Is not K-12 free in the US?

 

 

And with that free education you will get what kind of job? And the quality of the education is very much determined by the size of the local tax base.

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2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Nonsense. Interest rates are so low, that borrowing wouldn't be a problem. The fact is that a developed economy can only grow so fast. Of course, if tax cuts were directed at the middle and working class people, who have a much higher marginal propensity to spend, that would provide a boost to the American economy.

Is the middle class not the working class or does the middle class not work?

 

I assume you meant the middle class and the working poor, if that's the case, how would you cut taxes for the working poor?

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1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Is the middle class not the working class or does the middle class not work?

 

I assume you meant the middle class and the working poor, if that's the case, how would you cut taxes for the working poor?

My mistake. I meant the middle class and less wealthy workers who still pay income tax. They used to be called blue collar workers back when a lot bigger percentage of Americans were employed in manufacturing.

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2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And with that free education you will get what kind of job? And the quality of the education is very much determined by the size of the local tax base.

Plenty of jobs that are taken by college graduates used to be taken by HS grads. Increasing the number of college graduates does not increase the number of good jobs for them.

 

I believe the student and the parent(s) (more and more only a mother) have more to do with the quality of education thna the local tax base.

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3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

My mistake. I meant the middle class and less wealthy workers who still pay income tax. They used to be called blue collar workers back when a lot bigger percentage of Americans were employed in manufacturing.

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So how would you cut their taxes? 

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