Is Your Nationality Important To You Now That You Live In Los?

[tijnebijn]

What is wrong to be proud of your nation?You can see it diferently,politically or in sports,don't people get very proud when the national anthem is played??It does not necessarily have to make me a nationalist or to feel wrong to be proud for lets say winning the worldcup??I think most of us will declare pretty quick from whereever you are to come from that particular country!I see nothing wrong with that.

Also why always generalise the germans or more in these days the americans all same alike?

What I try to say the past is the past the future is the future.I found out that(really)many travellers from germany are very nice people,and particularly americans who seem to listen so well,to give you time to anwer when asked a question,surely not all of them will be like that,but for me a big good reason not to generalize anyone,whatever past there country have been in.We all all human beings on the same planet eventually,so nationalismm I say nono,proud or whatever psychological explanation why people have this no problem.

In the big picture what some posters try to say I asume, why a need to have this.....I can understand this also,it is just how you look at it,peace people

[ColPyat]

don't people get very proud when the national anthem is played??

Some might, i don't. I just feel nauseous.

[Grover]

don't people get very proud when the national anthem is played??

Some might, i don't. I just feel nauseous.

ahhh. you must be aussie.

[Acquiesce]

Most deffinently not. No nationality is perfect and most if not all countries have dark spots in their countries past, but I am still proud of my nationality. Being proud of where your from or what nationality you are does not mean you have to be proud of everything you country has done in the past, especially if you wern't around at that time to make an impact.

The treatment of the aborigines started with the English people as Australia was originally modernised/ started by the English. By the time Australia found its own identity and developed its own culture by slowley breaking away from British traditions, most of the damage was already done to the Aborigines.

I am proud to be from Australia, a very young, first world, sucessful and modern nation that has developed very quickly compaired to some nations and cultures that are thousands of years older...........................

I guess then maybe replacing being "proud of your Nation" with having a strong cultural affinity would be a better idea.

It may sound like picking beans, but it actually are two different concepts of thought.

Being proud of your nation does automatically include that terrible concept of "right or wrong - my country", while a cultural affinity though is far more multi layered and suitable to the spirit of your answer.

Being proud of your nation is somewhat inclusive here, and includes the people and acts of your nation that you cannot be proud of with a good conscience.

Colpyat, i like your posts and always enjoy reading them, however, that was a load of rubbish.

You can be proud of your nation and still not be proud of something that has gone on in the nations past.

Just the same as a person who has done wrong in the past can still be proud of themselves now. If they have seen the errors of their ways and have corrected them

For example, a person who is an ex-drug addict, but is now commited to showing young people the dangers of drugs and educating them so that they don't fall in to the same traps as they did, has every right to feel proud of themselves, eventhough they have a less than perfect past.

[aussiestyle1983]

Most deffinently not. No nationality is perfect and most if not all countries have dark spots in their countries past, but I am still proud of my nationality. Being proud of where your from or what nationality you are does not mean you have to be proud of everything you country has done in the past, especially if you wern't around at that time to make an impact.

The treatment of the aborigines started with the English people as Australia was originally modernised/ started by the English. By the time Australia found its own identity and developed its own culture by slowley breaking away from British traditions, most of the damage was already done to the Aborigines.

I am proud to be from Australia, a very young, first world, sucessful and modern nation that has developed very quickly compaired to some nations and cultures that are thousands of years older...........................

I guess then maybe replacing being "proud of your Nation" with having a strong cultural affinity would be a better idea.

It may sound like picking beans, but it actually are two different concepts of thought.

Being proud of your nation does automatically include that terrible concept of "right or wrong - my country", while a cultural affinity though is far more multi layered and suitable to the spirit of your answer.

Being proud of your nation is somewhat inclusive here, and includes the people and acts of your nation that you cannot be proud of with a good conscience.

Colpyat, i like your posts and always enjoy reading them, however, that was a load of rubbish.

You can be proud of your nation and still not be proud of something that has gone on in the nations past.

Just the same as a person who has done wrong in the past can still be proud of themselves now. If they have seen the errors of their ways and have corrected them

For example, a person who is an ex-drug addict, but is now commited to showing young people the dangers of drugs and educating them so that they don't fall in to the same traps as they did, has every right to feel proud of themselves, eventhough they have a less than perfect past.

Excellent point!

[ColPyat]

don't people get very proud when the national anthem is played??

Some might, i don't. I just feel nauseous.

ahhh. you must be aussie.

Nah, my English is too good for being an Aussie.

I'm of the western European persuasion. Not from one off the small tribal islands of the European coast though.

[ColPyat]

You can be proud of your nation and still not be proud of something that has gone on in the nations past.

The problem with national pride and patriotism is that there is a huge baggage of political, social, and philosophical concepts associated which is mostly not very nice. That is why i would replace this with the term "cultural affinity". This term is actually far more suitable to what many people mistake as "pride in their nation".

[tijnebijn]

don't people get very proud when the national anthem is played??

Some might, i don't. I just feel nauseous.

Maybe this feeling you have comes from you have to many knowledge and too many knowhow how things went,

and just make you feel like look at them,it is your way too look at it,maybe many different people seems not to care,what you can't blame them.It is also a lack of knowledge they have or ignorent,or proud to be part of a race that once had the world in their handpalm.Are you dealing on this?

but stil however you look at it to be too serious or to live in the past not make people come together isn't it?

If things like this make people who understand the past or history nauseous when played an enthem or something like that,we could bring this subject even further,like why have countries in the first place,why not open borders...etc.....Is mankind in total and individual not totally madness,it is just how people are.maybe one day we not need an anthem or proud feelings,we will be one world,would that not be great?

[garro]

It is very easy to focus on your nations perceived good points and ignore the bad. It is this particular hypocracy that eroded my nationalistic pride while still in my teens.

[ColPyat]

don't people get very proud when the national anthem is played??

Some might, i don't. I just feel nauseous.

Maybe this feeling you have comes from you have to many knowledge and too many knowhow how things went,

and just make you feel like look at them,it is your way too look at it,maybe many different people seems not to care,what you can't blame them.It is also a lack of knowledge they have or ignorent,or proud to be part of a race that once had the world in their handpalm.Are you dealing on this?

but stil however you look at it to be too serious or to live in the past not make people come together isn't it?

If things like this make people who understand the past or history nauseous when played an enthem or something like that,we could bring this subject even further,like why have countries in the first place,why not open borders...etc.....Is mankind in total and individual not totally madness,it is just how people are.maybe one day we not need an anthem or proud feelings,we will be one world,would that not be great?

The problem is, that when people have not enough knowledge of the past, they are easy to be misled by irresponsible and corrupt leaders into wars under the pretense of "serving", or "defending" "the Nation". We see that everyday.

But yes, i am all for open borders. I may be a fantast and idealist, but i do strongly believe that everybody should be able to freely and unhindered travel and live wherever he/she wants.

[Acquiesce]

You can be proud of your nation and still not be proud of something that has gone on in the nations past.

The problem with national pride and patriotism is that there is a huge baggage of political, social, and philosophical concepts associated which is mostly not very nice. That is why i would replace this with the term "cultural affinity". This term is actually far more suitable to what many people mistake as "pride in their nation".

George Orwell wrote: "By patriotism, I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people."

Patriotism is being proud of a country's virtues and eager to correct its deficiencies, it's also acknowledging the legitimate patriotism of other countries, with their own specific virtues. The pride of nationalism, however, trumpets its country's virtues and denies its deficiencies, while it is contemptuous toward the virtues of other countries.

The difference between patriotism and nationalism is that the patriot is proud of his country for what it does, and the nationalist is proud of his country no matter what it does.

Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first, nationalism is when hate for people other than your own comes first.

[tijnebijn]

don't people get very proud when the national anthem is played??

Some might, i don't. I just feel nauseous.

Maybe this feeling you have comes from you have to many knowledge and too many knowhow how things went,

and just make you feel like look at them,it is your way too look at it,maybe many different people seems not to care,what you can't blame them.It is also a lack of knowledge they have or ignorent,or proud to be part of a race that once had the world in their handpalm.Are you dealing on this?

but stil however you look at it to be too serious or to live in the past not make people come together isn't it?

If things like this make people who understand the past or history nauseous when played an enthem or something like that,we could bring this subject even further,like why have countries in the first place,why not open borders...etc.....Is mankind in total and individual not totally madness,it is just how people are.maybe one day we not need an anthem or proud feelings,we will be one world,would that not be great?

The problem is, that when people have not enough knowledge of the past, they are easy to be misled by irresponsible and corrupt leaders into wars under the pretense of "serving", or "defending" "the Nation". We see that everyday.

But yes, i am all for open borders. I may be a fantast and idealist, but i do strongly believe that everybody should be able to freely and unhindered travel and live wherever he/she wants.

I think alot of posters can see now why you pointed out what you started in a different way of looking at things .I think it is well thought and agree.Maybe many have to think a bit harder,like some knowledge we have is it brought in with populist ways of educating or is it(the knowledge one has)coming from there own experiences?this is a point where wisdom comes in part.You are a world citizen and i think learned what life brought to us in a very good manner.

[ColPyat]

George Orwell wrote: "By patriotism, I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people."

I am sorry to disagree with George Orwell here.

The Latin root 'patria' of which 'patriotism' is derived is translated clearly as "fatherland", and therefore is not just a particular place and way of life independent of a nation or country.

Personally, love of my people includes people from many nations, and due to my nearly two decades living outside my own cultural background, it combines many ways of life. My own are not just people of my "patria".

[ColPyat]

I think alot of posters can see now why you pointed out what you started in a different way of looking at things .I think it is well thought and agree.Maybe many have to think a bit harder,like some knowledge we have is it brought in with populist ways of educating or is it(the knowledge one has)coming from there own experiences?this is a point where wisdom comes in part.You are a world citizen and i think learned what life brought to us in a very good manner.

Thanks.

I have never been particularly nationalistic, but having a Thai wife, and an adopted son of Thai and most likely Chinese background destroyed any remnant of nationalism in me.

[Acquiesce]

George Orwell wrote: "By patriotism, I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people."

I am sorry to disagree with George Orwell here.

The Latin root 'patria' of which 'patriotism' is derived is translated clearly as "fatherland", and therefore is not just a particular place and way of life independent of a nation or country.

Personally, love of my people includes people from many nations, and due to my nearly two decades living outside my own cultural background, it combines many ways of life. My own are not just people of my "patria".

But of course you managed to miss out the rest of my post.

As for the latin origin of the word, i'm sure you are aware that through the passage of time the meaning afixed to a certain word can change, a great example of this would be the word 'gay' for instance.

[ColPyat]

George Orwell wrote: "By patriotism, I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people."

I am sorry to disagree with George Orwell here.

The Latin root 'patria' of which 'patriotism' is derived is translated clearly as "fatherland", and therefore is not just a particular place and way of life independent of a nation or country.

Personally, love of my people includes people from many nations, and due to my nearly two decades living outside my own cultural background, it combines many ways of life. My own are not just people of my "patria".

But of course you managed to miss out the rest of my post.

As for the latin origin of the word, i'm sure you are aware that through the passage of time the meaning afixed to a certain word can change, a great example of this would be the word 'gay' for instance.

I didn't miss out the rest of your post, especially your definition of 'nationalism' i do agree very much with.

Nevertheless, i don't believe that the definition of 'patriotism' has changed over time (and gay is in many countries still used in its original meaning, especially in the former colonies which still use somewhat Victorian English, just read an Indian newspaper... ).

Patriotism is, as far as i am aware, mostly used in close relationship with the concept of 'nation' and 'country', and not in the changed definition you use. Love for country, maybe, but not Orwell's definition of particular place and way of life (which i would paraphrase as 'cultural affinity' - that has not the baggage that the root 'patria' carries).

Love and hate, they say, are very closed together. Both are emotional conditions, and when applied to and attached with an artificial construct such as a Nation or country, then there are some for me uncomfortable results and consequences possible.

I root for 'cultural affinity' - that is without dangerous emotions prone to be abused, and can be a place, but does not have to be.

[Boon Mee]

...and let's take it down a notch. We are not going into a debate of for or against the US.

This is a poll asking if you think nationalism is important or not. If you have issues with people who are for or against US foreign policy, take them to a forum aimed to discuss these things.

Thank you for your understanding.

Support your Mods.

I have no problem with that at all.

But the same should count for anyone who turns spastic whenever any slight criticism of the US is voiced, or even none at all and is just perceived so, and then has to go off on Nationalist rants, including posting inane "we support the troops" banners. Which have even less to do with the thread topic.

You need a set of glasses there colpyat?

The banner says "Support Our Troops" and was a poke at Donz who is one of those hard-core trollers aboard here...

Edited March 11, 2007 by Boon Mee

[Richb2004v2]

I’m British and fairly proud of my nationality. Although the UK is quite probably going down hill in many respects I think there is plenty of company going with it, in the form of other developed countries. The more countries I visit that are in a much worse condition the more I appreciate all the good things about the UK, and dismiss those unappreciating disgruntled people still living there. At the end of the day the UK was, and in some ways still is, a great country. The people of that country made it that way. I am one of those people and therefore am a little proud of being British. There are certainly better countries, but there are far less desirable ones too.

The same goes for many other countries. If you are proud of your country do not feel bad about it. On the other hand if your country truly is a hole do not try to fool anyone into thinking it is not. I remember talking to a Libyan who had just returned from Canada. He told me Canada is a wonderful country, second only to Libya as the greatest country. I felt that was taking it a little too far.

As for wearing flag emblazoned T-shirts: well I do like to wear my England football top occasionally, regardless of if they have just won or lost a match. However, I do consider where I am going before I put it on. I do not wear it if I am going to Pattaya shopping or for a drink. I wouldn’t feel comfortable being mistaken for an English yob.

[ColPyat]

You need a ste of glasses there colpat?

The banner says "Support Our Troops" and was a poke at Donz who is one of those hard-core trollers aboard here...

Ok, no problem with that. Poking Donz must be fun given the amount of posters who enjoy engaging in that activity.

Just make sure you use protection.

[samran]

Oh dear, it's degenerating into another slag the yanks off again topic.

Phew! For a second there I thought it was turning into another English whinge session about how their country has gone down the tubes....

As Meadish said, support your mods, and lets keep this puppy on topic.

As for me, well I keep both my Australian and Thai passports safely stored away, and lock up the respective birth certificates which underlie them.

We all want to belong, for good or for bad. Being away from home makes you at the same time more patriotic, and more critical.

[Ulysses G.]

Canada is a wonderful country, second only to Libya as the greatest country.

[Boon Mee]

Canada is a wonderful country, second only to Libya as the greatest country.

And depression is said to be the leading cause of suicide...

[Acquiesce]

Patriotism is, as far as i am aware, mostly used in close relationship with the concept of 'nation' and 'country', and not in the changed definition you use.

Patriotism can be defined simply as 'love and loyal support of one's country'. Yes, it's centered in feeling–and, the emotion can run deep and intense. But when people take patriotism to a fanatic extreme, this is usually no longer called patriotism, but instead, called nationalism. (The terms jingoism and chauvinism are near synonyms.) Nationalism is more centered in thought than in feeling, it's actually a political and social philosophy (unlike patriotism) and a collective state of mind or consciousness in which people believe their primary duty and loyalty is to the nation-state. Often nationalism implies national superiority and glorifies various national virtues. Thus love of nation may be overemphasized, concern with national self-interest to the exclusion of the rights of other nations may lead to international conflict. So, because nationalism is the belief that national interests and security are more important than international considerations (unlike patriotism), it often goes hand in hand with a militaristic foreign policy. It also tends to encourage cultural conformity and intolerance (unlike patriotism).

[Ulysses G.]

I'm not proud of being American - just not ashamed of it - but - if I had a choice - I would choose it over any other nationality.

[Acquiesce]

BTW, my original comment, when i refered to an ex-drug addict still being able to be proud of themselves if they have now taken responsibility for their actions, was supposed to express a difference between the two. ie taking responsibility

One of the major differences between a patriot and a nationalist is that a patriot values reponsibility.

[THAILIBAN]

I voted "IMPORTANT"....... why ?

I am not PROUD to be a citizen of my homecountry (its 100% nonsense to be proud of something u have nothing done for), but I am HAPPY to be a citizen of my homecountry.

Why ? Because it gave me a decent education, a sense of morals, and now, as I decided to live in Asia, I still always have the opportunity to go back to a civilized, well-developped country in Europe, though I dont have plans for that. but then: u never know...... (you bad Falang, go home !!)

do I wear clothes in the colour of my country or the flag of my country ? yeah, I must admit, I did: during WorldCup 2006...... but thats history already.....

oh, I still have a huge flag and a wig for sale, not to forget that silly HAT.... any takers ?

[kratindaeng]

I'm not proud of being American - just not ashamed of it - but - if I had a choice - I would choose it over any other nationality.

I'm not proud to be English - I am ashamed of it - but - if I had a choice, I would choose to be thai

KD

[Acquiesce]

I'm not proud of being American - just not ashamed of it - but - if I had a choice - I would choose it over any other nationality.

I'm not proud to be English - I am ashamed of it - but - if I had a choice, I would choose to be thai

KD

Why are you ashamed of being English?

[aussiestyle1983]

I'm not proud of being American - just not ashamed of it - but - if I had a choice - I would choose it over any other nationality.

I'm not proud to be English - I am ashamed of it - but - if I had a choice, I would choose to be thai

KD

Why are you ashamed of being English?

Because of their cricket team!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Acquiesce]

He could be ashamed of the England cricket teams performances without being ashamed of his nationality.