Why do they keep doing it ??

[thequietman]

47 minutes ago, Dogbarker said:

I do have a query .. Private lessons being given for money? Is that something legal you can do ? Does immigration  and the tax man know about this...

Lessons online for students outside Thailand. Salary also paid from outside Thailand. So, yes, it's fine. Tried to declare with tax office and they laughed at me.

[thequietman]

50 minutes ago, Dogbarker said:

Sometimes it is good to have a paying job..

Not at the salary they pay you here in the Thai education system.

 

It's woefully bad, so it needs to topped up by other ways. If it was up to my Uni, I should sit at home and wait for their call. 

[emptypockets]

4 hours ago, thequietman said:

True ... regarding the point that they won't change. I am Irish and head strong and WILL tell them to get F#### if they keep pushing me! ????

Not sure what being Irish has to do with it. I'm Aussie and would have told them to shove it before signing the contract. Actually as a PhD or Masters holder, as the OP presumably is , I would have written the contract myself and said you sign it it.....I don't need your job.

[emptypockets]

3 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/what-do-the-thai-labor-law-tells-about-workday-overtime-and-leave/

I know you mean well but how about stating some facts and not an internet link that I and many others will never open? It keeps it real.

[marcusarelus]

3 hours ago, MartiniMan said:

Can't believe you can actually work with them being in a powerful position over you that is just pure madness.

Honestly you must be very disciplined I can never imagine taking orders and fitting in with them they can barely organise a piss up in a brewery i would never allow one to be in control of anything i did besides making some food or driving a car

I have had a couple of heart operations and found them better than doctors in America.  I must say I've only lived here 20 years though.  

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

I know you mean well but how about stating some facts and not an internet link that I and many others will never open? It keeps it real.

It tells you what to do in the OP's position about workday overtime.  As no one really wants information it's kind of like pearls to swine so I didn't bother opening it.  This is mainly another anti Thai thread and the one poster who did click on the link said there is no law in Thailand so it's not relevant.  ????

Edited June 16, 2019 by marcusarelus

[thequietman]

36 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

his is mainly another anti Thai thread

I would suggest you are wrong in this regard. I get along fine with my Thai neighbours. This is a work thing and it is the institution more than the people who work there. that I have issues with. I know the hierarchical system here is how things work, but in a time when they can't get NES, it doesn't make sense that they do what they do. But they do!

 

Asking a NES to go to a seminar, so a Japanese guy can teach us how to teach English is a little much. Yes, the Thai teachers need the help, but I don't need any assistance with my Jinglish thanks. I am a Phd candidate and I can think of other ways to spend my time better.

 

It's the mentality that if the Thai teachers have to go, then it's not fair that the foreigners don't have to. It really does boil down to that point.

[thequietman]

1 hour ago, emptypockets said:

Not sure what being Irish has to do with it. I'm Aussie and would have told them to shove it before signing the contract. Actually as a PhD or Masters holder, as the OP presumably is , I would have written the contract myself and said you sign it it.....I don't need your job.

Just referring to the fact that we wear our hearts on our sleeve, much like the ozzies, and it's difficult not to tell them to get f#####. Venting on here helps to reduce the anger and I get other's opinions, like yours and that helps. ????

[jerojero]

Won't accept? They don't care about you or your weekend time. You are their employee 24/7, simple authoritarian mindset.

I know, it was naive of me, but why won't they accept what I am telling them? Its like a roundabout, they ask me to come in on days off, evenings and weekends, I explain I have private lessons, they get angry, rinse then repeat. There doesn't seem to be any learning curve!
 
And then when I quit, they will seem confused and ask me why! 
 
 
Arrrrggggg !

[jerojero]

Not like factory work. True, typical factory work schedule is 6 days per week 10 hours per day!

Teachers in western countries work much longer hours than that stated in any contract. Most professions have hours that you need to be in the office. This does not mean that when you clock off, work stops. I can get you Thai government workers work much longer hours than stated in their contract - my wife puts in at least 10-12 hours a day or more - that includes evening and weekend work. Meetings are often held on public holidays as that is the only "free time" they get during the week. Teaching and many other professions are not like factory work. I do what I need to do my job, even if it means marking students work or writing exams outside of office hours. The OP may find more flexibility in working for a language school. Thais schools are not known for forward planning, especially them telling you what will happen a month in advance. 

[marcusarelus]

31 minutes ago, thequietman said:

I would suggest you are wrong in this regard. I get along fine with my Thai neighbours. This is a work thing and it is the institution more than the people who work there. that I have issues with. I know the hierarchical system here is how things work, but in a time when they can't get NES, it doesn't make sense that they do what they do. But they do!

 

Asking a NES to go to a seminar, so a Japanese guy can teach us how to teach English is a little much. Yes, the Thai teachers need the help, but I don't need any assistance with my Jinglish thanks. I am a Phd candidate and I can think of other ways to spend my time better.

 

It's the mentality that if the Thai teachers have to go, then it's not fair that the foreigners don't have to. It really does boil down to that point.

Is an anti Thai schools thread not an anti Thai thread?  Not every thread (as much as we all try) is a complete all anti Thai thread.  

 

You are a bit much in my opinion.  Why wouldn't you be asked to go to a seminar on teaching English if that is what you do.  Do you really think a university will adjust all of it's schedules to suite your desires.  I was an Olympic shooter and when I got drafted the Army still made me go to shooting classes.  

 

So, just admit you are blowing off steam and having a difficult time adjusting with bureaucratic administrators.   

[marcusarelus]

38 minutes ago, thequietman said:

Just referring to the fact that we wear our hearts on our sleeve, much like the ozzies, and it's difficult not to tell them to get f#####. Venting on here helps to reduce the anger and I get other's opinions, like yours and that helps. ????

Your nationality has nothing to do with your emotional maturity.  Social Anthropology classes.  

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, thequietman said:

Not at the salary they pay you here in the Thai education system.

 

It's woefully bad, so it needs to topped up by other ways. If it was up to my Uni, I should sit at home and wait for their call. 

You are a classic example of the wrong person in the wrong job at the wrong time.  Ask anyone who hires teachers in Thailand if after reading this thread if they would touch you with a ten foot pole.  

[geronimo]

You can't change it, so why bother?

[CM Dad]

They hired you and arranged a work permit for you to work for them at their school.  You do not have a work permit to teach private classes outside of the school for extra money that you are most likely not paying taxes on.  You are breaking the law and your contract.  I would advise you to not do extra classes, or to at least keep your mouth shut about them.

[shy coconut]

On 6/15/2019 at 2:19 AM, Fex Bluse said:

They also grow more rice... 

Did you know that Thailand's economic efficiency is among the lowest of countries measured?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_hour_worked

Could you explain in simple terms what ppp is?

 

Your highly impressive wiki link doesn't really say what this means in regards to economic

efficiency.

 

 

yourhighly impressive wiki link 

Edited June 16, 2019 by shy coconut
Spelling

[insouciant]

Welcome to Thailand. Where the law and contracts are whatever they want them at any given time. Immigration is the same way. The law is whatever they say it is. Just tell them you volunteer to help blind buddhist monks that day and they will get off your back. 

[shy coconut]

18 hours ago, thequietman said:

I didn't. Management and business was my thing in the UK. Took up teaching when I retired here out of boredom and then got to like it. Nowadays though, it's getting more difficult as the obvious dislike for foreign teachers is quite prevalent. At the moment, we are a necessary evil, but for how long. The current government mind set is not helping. ????

If you are only teaching to alleviate boredom, why don't you just keep your on-line teaching gig and forget about all of the hassles you are experiencing in the university job?

 

You have also asked at least one person here about setting you up for another apparent full time position, so it doesn't seem that you are quite as retired as you say.

[thequietman]

On 6/14/2019 at 9:48 PM, marcusarelus said:

How much do you make at the Uni vs the part time job?  

The P/T job pays better, but is not consistent. One month great, the next not so much. The gig at the Uni is guaranteed salary and that's the attraction.

[thequietman]

11 hours ago, CM Dad said:

They hired you and arranged a work permit for you to work for them at their school.  You do not have a work permit to teach private classes outside of the school for extra money that you are most likely not paying taxes on.  You are breaking the law and your contract.  I would advise you to not do extra classes, or to at least keep your mouth shut about them.

Nope, it's fine. Already asked immigration about them. As long as the company is outside Thailand and payment is received outside Thailand, then they are fine. I did ask.

[petedk]

On 6/15/2019 at 9:36 AM, marcusarelus said:

You have better working conditions.  You are talking about benefits.  Two different things.  I believe on a college level you may qualify for more benefits depending on your employer.  Since you are teaching on a college level I'll assume you have at least a masters in your area of expertise and normally a Phd.  Perhaps someone else can comment on a Western college professor and what benefits they can expect with a MA or Phd.   

Well, at our university there are no advantages in having an MA. Having a PhD will get you about 3000 baht more a month.

[petedk]

22 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Thais allow themselves to be walked over as it seems that labour laws are weak to non-existent. It would be unfathomable to the school authorities that anyone would not agree to work extra hours unpaid when demanded. My wife was a teacher of English in Bangkok, and would happily wai the headteacher who was using her as unpaid labour.

 

And Thais do not plan ahead more than a day or two, so to give you advance warning just wouldn't happen. You either have to suck it up, go with the flow, or leave the profession as all learning establishments are the same. The place you work at now pays you so they think they own you. It happens in companies too, where you are expected to work extra hours if needed without question. A bit medievil, isn't it.

Another thing you must surely be aware of is that Thais do not question those in authority. And that your protests and refusal to play along with their demands on your free time might mean that your contract may not be renewed as you could be seen as a trouble-maker. After all, if you refuse to show up then others might get the same idea...

Along the lines of not informing, I wonder if any of your private students just haven't shown up, no warning. Although as they (or their parents) pay, that might not occur.

Labour laws are not weak and do exist. The problem is that if a Thai uses the labour court in any way to get fair treatment they are blacklisted and many companies will refuse to employ them. 

I know two Thai people who were treated badly and when I suggested they go to the labour court they both gave the answer above.

[thequietman]

Fairly satisfactory conclusion - At the meeting there was agreement that it was very last moment and having prior commitments is understandable -result!

 

My department head was unaware that our salaries had been frozen this year. Seemed genuinely upset about this and then said, if it was up to her, she wouldn't come to the seminar either. ???? - result.

 

All in all, quite a surprising conclusion. She was equally disillusioned and talked with us about quitting as well. She is as equally frustrated as we are. 

 

Need to send a memo to El Presidente as to why we won't be in attendance and that's it basically. Will make some kind of effort to be there for the opening ceremony and then head back home. For Show of course. ????

[meand]

5 hours ago, thequietman said:

Nope, it's fine. Already asked immigration about them. As long as the company is outside Thailand and payment is received outside Thailand, then they are fine. I did ask.

Supposedly it is technically illegal to make business calls in Thailand while on vacation, because you are working.

 

That of course is not practical for them to enforce. Bottom line though, it does not matter who is paying you, where the money comes from, who the employer is, if you are working IN Thailand you need a work permit for the work to be legal/legit. 

[thequietman]

38 minutes ago, meand said:

Supposedly it is technically illegal to make business calls in Thailand while on vacation, because you are working.

 

That of course is not practical for them to enforce. Bottom line though, it does not matter who is paying you, where the money comes from, who the employer is, if you are working IN Thailand you need a work permit for the work to be legal/legit. 

I have a work permit. Went to immigration and asked about teaching online for a company outside Thailand and was told  'OK'   I can't tell you anymore than that. ????

[manchega]

On 6/16/2019 at 11:23 AM, connda said:

Puchaiyank addresses the status issue here too, which is very real.  
Administrators poop flowers and fart perfume in their own minds.
I worked for a private company but did gigs teaching Thai teachers at their own schools.  At the end of course we had a pizza party.  The class and myself all sat around at a table and had a jolly good time while the school's director sat at her own private table on the other side of the room.  She would have looked better with a dunce-cap on imho, but she was showing her status to the plebs. 
That is exactly what you are dealing with.  That mentality.  And most Thais want to be in the director's seat - high and mighty!  
So, a couple of lessons here.  I personally only work for private companies.  I never dealt with the buffalo paddies you folks in public institutions deal with. 
Second, if I did it all over again, I'd have worked in countries where the pay was good and where the administrations had a least a modicum of respect for their staff.  Thailand ain't it and never will be.  If you like Thailand, then dandy.  Work elsewhere, make some decent 'jack', and on your vacations or between gigs, come to Thailand as a tourist.  That's a better plan in imho.

On the contrary connda, Thai admin are in position with no future, particularly in universities, there is no bonus, there is no reward for doing the extra work other than keeping your job,

once you understand this, every interaction is easy,  there is no advantage in it for them to make things difficult or easy for you, piss them off and they will attempt to manipulate you for the rest of your relationship with them

admin know they have no status and they know exactly how much you earn

so when you are earning 100 k for you couple of lectures a week, and get your housing paid ( altered for what ever uni you are at) for while doing a fraction of their working hours 

if you put yourself in their shoes it is you who is the prima donna earning 10 x + their salary for a fraction of the time they put in, and you expect them to help wipe your arse

 

the op just needs to train them, if they are unable to give notice it is there problem not yours

[rumak]

sorry , only read page one but this thought came to mind :    can the school get you in trouble for teaching privately ?    you might be unpleasantly surprised at what things people will do .

 

keep under the radar is a wise expression here ( and many other places)

Edited June 17, 2019 by rumak

[thequietman]

2 hours ago, manchega said:

when you are earning 100 k for you couple of lectures a week, and get your housing paid ( altered for what ever uni you are at) for while doing a fraction of their working hours 

You are way off in your estimates. Thai government Uni's don't pay even close to that. International uni's might go to 70k at a push, but local in town ones - forget about it!

 

For 70k, i would put up with their crap.

[thequietman]

2 hours ago, rumak said:

sorry , only read page one but this thought came to mind :    can the school get you in trouble for teaching privately ?    you might be unpleasantly surprised at what things people will do .

 

keep under the radar is a wise expression here ( and many other places)

They really don't have any idea about the rules that foreigners need to follow in order to stay here.

 

When you tell them that you have to come up with 400k every year for an extension, they are like, whaaaaat!

[thequietman]

9 hours ago, petedk said:

Well, at our university there are no advantages in having an MA. Having a PhD will get you about 3000 baht more a month.

In mine, my masters gets me 3,000 more than my colleagues. Hopefully, my PhD will push me beyond that a little more.

 

You will love this ....... if I do my PhD online from a UK university or any online uni throughout Europe or America, then it is not acceptable for them! If I were to do my PhD at a Thai Uni and attend class there, then that is acceptable. Even Harvard do an online PhD, but that's not good enough at a Thai Gov. Uni.   Go Figure. ????