Warning of unexpected immigration problems

[ripley]

As most of you know, the immigration visa laws have changed and are very confusing to officials as well as users. Here's a problem to be aware of. Having visited Thailand on a retirement visa for at least 15 yrs w/ no problems, my partner encountered a biggie. At the Jomtien Immigration office, I was given my renewal immediately. My partner was refused. On what grounds? Our 30 yr old marriage certificate. It apparently required certain stamps and certifications. This document was not targetted in any way as a problem for me. We were sent to BKK to get stamps, certifications - no joy. Then told we had to go back to India where we live and do paperwork there. Meanwhile, charged 500Baht per day overstay charges. Not sure - it wasn't stated - but seemed to have something to do with our Bond money being in an acct. in my name - which we were instructed to do some years ago. Not even clear whether a joint acct. - if allowed - would have made a difference. 

We had the good luck to be handled the second time by the Jomtien Immigration people who went out of their way to provide us with permission for another year's stay. When in India we will have to go thru channels again.

Can't give you any advice about this as am in the dark myself for the most part. But be as prepared as possible.

[ubonjoe]

Immigration has required that a marriage or birth certificates used to prove their relationship to you be legalized for a few years now. It is certainly nothing new.

You have just been lucky it was not asked for before.

[redsongthaew]

Glad you got it sorted in the end.

[arithai12]

17 hours ago, ripley said:

be as prepared as possible

Isn't that the norm?

[PerkinsCuthbert]

2 hours ago, arithai12 said:

Isn't that the norm?

Yes, until local IOs throw you yet another curve ball.

[AlfonsV]

20 hours ago, ripley said:

but seemed to have something to do with our Bond money being in an acct

In Chiang Mai bonds are not allowed as deposit even if it is 1 million and for a 3 years period. The money must be kept on a fixed deposit acc.

[Shine 919]

Nothing new another way to bleed the farungs 

 

I've been giving work to the local Thai community, buying cars etc helping the local economy, what more do they want, money 

[wotsdermatter]

4 hours ago, arithai12 said:

Isn't that the norm?

Is there such a thing as a "norm" in Thailand?  Just curious.

'nuf sed.

[moontang]

1 hour ago, AlfonsV said:

In Chiang Mai bonds are not allowed as deposit even if it is 1 million and for a 3 years period. The money must be kept on a fixed deposit acc.

Or regular savings account... and I would avoid letting fixed deposits mature during seasoning.. 

[arithai12]

2 hours ago, PerkinsCuthbert said:

Yes, until local IOs throw you yet another curve ball.

Sometimes IOs can be maddening I agree, but I don't see any curve or straight ball in this case.

From what we can read, the OP went to extend with his marriage certificate not in order like he had done for years, expecting the same result, but this time he found an IO actually doing things by the book.

So I replied to his statement "be as prepared as possible", that it is normal to be prepared and does not need a special warning.

 

 

 

 

[Anagami]

In Thailand, unexpected is the expected.

[Vacuum]

55 minutes ago, moontang said:

I would avoid letting fixed deposits mature during seasoning

Why, just renew the account. BKK Bank will use the same passbook, proving that no money was withdrawn.

[moontang]

3 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

Why, just renew the account. BKK Bank will use the same passbook, proving that no money was withdrawn.

If you have it set to renew, you are less likely to have a continuity issue, but you will be guaranteed to get a below market rate from BBL, as you will be excluded from any promotion rates, which are usually odd tenor.  I have an old book from BBL, showing a 2.625 renewing to a 1.125... before I got there on the day it matured.. brown bagged it, went to airport Plaza and got more than double.  If you are 100% sure a maturity during seasoning won't be a problem, you might consider a wake-up call.  It can require another letter, and in CM, that is really going to suck.  

[mahjongguy]

3 hours ago, AlfonsV said:

In Chiang Mai bonds are not allowed as deposit even if it is 1 million and for a 3 years period. The money must be kept on a fixed deposit acc.

I'm fairly sure the OP did not use the word bond to mean some interest-paying financial instrument. Far more likely that he meant money held to guarantee a certain result, like "posting a bond" to assure you will appear in a court. So, in this case, just cash in the bank, same as the rest of us.

[UbonEagle]

On Tue Jun 25 2019 at 4:17 PM, ubonjoe said:

Immigration has required that a marriage or birth certificates used to prove their relationship to you be legalized for a few years now. It is certainly nothing new.

You have just been lucky it was not asked for before.

Ubonjoe what do you mean by legalized ? I was recently trying to apply for a non O marriage multi entry in Australia and was told I need "another certificate"....I had presented registry certificate from our marriage in Australia 20yrs ago...think the OP was being difficult with other minor issues also so held my tongue and left. 

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, UbonEagle said:

Ubonjoe what do you mean by legalized ? I was recently trying to apply for a non O marriage multi entry in Australia and was told I need "another certificate"....I had presented registry certificate from our marriage in Australia 20yrs ago...think the OP was being difficult with other minor issues also so held my tongue and left. 

Legalized is having it certified by the issuing authority it is a real document that was issued by them.

The embassy or consulate was probably asking for a Kor Ror 22 marriage registry to prove that your foreign marriage had been registered here in Thailand.

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, moontang said:

Or regular savings account... and I would avoid letting fixed deposits mature during seasoning.. 

Why, surely only means balance goes up and goes above requirements?

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Why, surely only means balance goes up and goes above requirements?

Depends on how the bank treats the account when the original deposit matures or what instructions you gave them.

 

If if you have a six month fixed rate account, for example, unless you have an agreement that the account number is maintained and tha balance is rolled into a new six month period, it could be shifted back to a savings account with a different account number.

 

I seem to recall one poster who had to go into the bank to request the money be deposited again for x months and found himself with a new account number.

 

if you ask for a six month or one year or whatever time period fixed account, the bank may assume you intend to withdraw the money once the account has matured, which could look like you didn't keep the money in the same account during the seasoning period.

 

[moontang]

1 minute ago, Suradit69 said:

Depends on how the bank treats the account when the original deposit matures or what instructions you gave them.

 

If if you have a six month fixed rate account, for example, unless you have an agreement that the account number is maintained and tha balance is rolled into a new six month period, it could be shifted back to a savings account with a different account number.

 

I seem to recall one poster who had to go into the bank to request the money be deposited again for x months and found himself with a new account number.

 

if you ask for a six month or one year or whatever time period fixed account, the bank may assume you intend to withdraw the money once the account has matured, which could look like you didn't keep the money in the same account during the seasoning period.

 

Exactly.. at best case you are making a mess of paperwork even messier.. at worst, you might be heading to Savanaket. 

[ripley]

On 6/24/2019 at 11:17 PM, ubonjoe said:

Immigration has required that a marriage or birth certificates used to prove their relationship to you be legalized for a few years now. It is certainly nothing new.

You have just been lucky it was not asked for before.

Of course immigration wants to see your certified marriage certificate. We HAD a certified Marriage certificate, one which had been accepted for years. It was even accepted for me this time. Just not for my partner. Suddenly new certifications were required, causing us a trip to BKK and overstay charges with the result that we were told to go back to India to sort it. Again I say Thank You to the Jomtien Immigration dept. for seeing the problem for us thru no fault of our own and did the needful.

[ripley]

Regarding the word "bond" - I was using that term to describe the 800,000 baht we're required to keep in the bank according to the terms of the Retirement Visa. Ours has always been in a savings acct, per instruction when we applied. All has been done for many years and according to instructions received which is what makes it all so mind boggling.

[moontang]

I saw an African with his Thai bride at imm last week... They had at least 50 pages of copies.. The officer held up a photo of the bed.. I could see from a distance.  Marriage scammers are still very common...same in USA. 

[tabarin]

7 hours ago, Anagami said:

In Thailand, unexpected is the expected.

Agree, that is how I drive here too (expecting them to do the unexpected thing), works great, never any accident!
Same for Immigration days, I stack them copies, pictures and anything else possible + back-up forms (dealing with it as a lawyer).

Edited June 26, 2019 by tabarin

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, ripley said:

Suddenly new certifications were required, causing us a trip to BKK and overstay charges with the result that we were told to go back to India to sort it.

Not sure what you mean by a certification since so many things can be called a certification. Who did it and where was it done.

Was it by chance a certification of a translation of your marriage certificate you had.

The legalization of a document never expires. Once it is done there is no need to do it again.

Perhaps what you had did not meet their current requirements.

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

Depends on how the bank treats the account when the original deposit matures or what instructions you gave them.

 

If if you have a six month fixed rate account, for example, unless you have an agreement that the account number is maintained and tha balance is rolled into a new six month period, it could be shifted back to a savings account with a different account number.

 

I seem to recall one poster who had to go into the bank to request the money be deposited again for x months and found himself with a new account number.

 

if you ask for a six month or one year or whatever time period fixed account, the bank may assume you intend to withdraw the money once the account has matured, which could look like you didn't keep the money in the same account during the seasoning period.

 

I recall that Bangkok Bank used to change my FD into a 3 month one on maturity, which was lower interest and I had to get in there and open a new one. In recent times they just seem to roll it over under the same conditions. I could elect to have the interest paid into my savings account, but just leave it in the FD to go 'compound' now, 

[DividendGuy]

My wife and I went through the same situation at Changwattana last year. The IO said our marriage certificate was too old (10 years) and wouldn't renew my wife as a dependent  on my visa. After much pleading she finally relented and gave my wife the dependent visa for only that year. 

 

The IO said the MC (marriage certificate) should be renewed on a yearly bases from where it was issued...meaning my wife would have to return to her home country every year to get a  new MC. Instead of traveling back to her home country every year we did the Bt 800K for her,  same as mine (total Bt1.6million) so, it has worked out for us, but what a hassle. 

[stephenterry]

On 6/26/2019 at 9:33 AM, AlfonsV said:

In Chiang Mai bonds are not allowed as deposit even if it is 1 million and for a 3 years period. The money must be kept on a fixed deposit acc.

Partly correct - the law states the money must be deposited in a Thai COMMERCIAL bank, and GSB isn't a commercial bank, hence the rejection of that source.

 

Incomprehensible madness, IMO.

[ripley]

Been away for a while, but thanks for your comments. Our problem doesn't seem to have anything to do with our bank. It is just about our marriage certificate - the one which has been submitted and accepted for many years. For us it's back to India and the Thai Consulate there to try to sort it all out. The way things have been going tho, no telling if we'll get correct information there. Jomtien Immigration was shocked at the BKK response. Nobody here seems to know or understand what the rules and procedures are and that's what makes me nervous. I will keep you posted on what happens and what I learn.