Thailand Blacklisted From Receiving New AIDS Drugs

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

According to the white paper:

Universal Coverage Scheme covers around 48.5 million people or 78% of the population. And around 20% of Thais pay out of their own pockets when receiving out patient services at private facilities.

Thailand's top 20% are being subsidized by American and their drug companies? What?

Nice try. The operative word here is "when". When receiving care in a government or contracted facility they receive free medication. Lets look at where you pulled things out of context.

[/color]From the white paper:

"The rationale mainly lies in the mandate to achieve universal access to essential medicine

for all Thais, under the National Health Security Act 2002. Since 2001, every Thai citizen is covered

under one of the three main national public health insurance schemes (Figure 1), i.e.:

2.1 The Civil Servant Medical Benefit Scheme (CSMBS) covers around 5 million

civil servants, public employees and their dependants. The scheme is paid totally from the general

tax revenue based on a fee-for-services retrospective reimbursement system. Public facilities are

the main providers under this scheme.

2.2 The Social Security Scheme (SSS), a tripartite system contributed by employers,

employees and the government on an equal share basis. It covers around 8.5 million private

employees and temporary public employees. Public and private facilities have approximately equal

share of the beneficiaries. This scheme pays the providers by the contract capitation system.

2.3 Universal Coverage Scheme (the gold card scheme) Since October 2001

universal coverage of the health insurance system was implemented by combining the previous

social welfare health services and the voluntary health card scheme, and further expanded coverage

to 18 million more people. This scheme covers around 48.5 million people, or 78 per cent of the

population. It is financed solely from the general tax revenue. Public hospitals are the main providers;

they cover more than 95 percent of the beneficiaries. About 80 private hospitals joined the system

and register around 4 percent of the beneficiaries. It also pays the providers by the contract capitation

system.

Some of the better off Thais, around 2 per cent buy private health insurance, and many of

those better off who are covered by one of the above-mentioned three public health insurance

schemes go to private facilities for their health services and pay out of pocket, in spite of their

right to access to free care paid by the government. Around 20 percent of Thais pay out of their

own pocket when receiving out patient services at private facilities.

All of the 62 million Thais who are covered by one of the three above-mentioned national

public health insurance schemes are entitled to full access of all medicines in the essential

drugs list, including almost 900 items of drugs, many of them patented."

What part don't you understand about the other two programs you didn't mention, The Civil Servant Medical Benefit Scheme and The Social Security Scheme being eligible for subsidized medications? What part of 62 million Thais don't you understand? That number essentially covers the entire population of Thailand. Do you understand the difference between "when receiving out patient services at private facilities" and the lack of information on what happens when they go to a hospital under the government program ( though they already tell you essentially all Thais can have subsidized medicine regardless of income) ? Do you understand that the lanquage used doesn't deny these same people use the government program? It simply says they sometimes use private facilities and when they do they pay themselves. It doesn't say 20% of Thais use private facilities and pay themselves. The use of the word when instead of the absolute form is probably no accident. Do you understand that there is nothing to prevent wealthy Thais from receiving subsidized medicine? There is no income cut off. There is no asset check. The wealthiest 20% can in fact receive the same subsidized medicine as the poorest 5%.

Edited May 12, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[ThaiGoon]

What part don't you understand about the other two programs you didn't mention, [/color][/color]The Civil Servant Medical Benefit Scheme and The Social Security Scheme being eligible for subsidized medications? What part of 62 million Thais don't you understand? That number essentially covers the entire population of Thailand. Do you understand the difference between "when receiving out patient services at private facilities" and the lack of informtion on what happens when they go to a hospital under the government program ( though they already tell you essentially all Thais can have subsidized medicine regardless of income) ? Do you understand that there is nothing to prevent wealthy Thais from receiving subsidized medicine? There is no income cut off. There is no asset check. The wealthiest 20% can in fact receive the same subsidized medicine as the poorest 5%.

In theory, yeah, they COULD be (if you ignore the 400% profit and the fact that better off Thais do go to private facilities for health services most of the time.) In theory yeah you COULD be right... :yawn:

By the way, why don't you just give us some concrete actual number that could support your claim of the drug companies being ripped off (ie having to subsidize the wealthy Thais' health care) for a change? All I see is just a theory that the (relatively) wealthy Thais COULD be subsidized, and that's not what's happenning in reality.

:yawn:

Edited May 12, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[ThaiGoon]

Also about 99.99% of Thai civil servants (covered by The Civil Servant Medical Benefit Scheme) can hardly be described as "wealthy." And I'm sure the real wealthy Thais aren't living under the soical security system, ie they aren't "private employees and temporary public employees."

"What part don't you understand about the other two programs?"

:yawn:

Edited May 12, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[slimdog]

Abbott has developed a reputation over the years as one of the toughest negotiators on HIV/AIDS drugs. In 2004, the Chicago-based company stunned AIDS patients around the globe — and some of its own shareholders — when it said it would raise the price of the antiretroviral Norvir by 400 percent.

This isn't strictly true.

Abbott officials said the firm "repriced" Norvir from $1.71 for a daily dose to $8.57 a day because the original standard dosage of 1,200 milligrams was reduced to 100 milligrams when Norvir came to be used primarily as a booster that made other AIDS drugs more effective. Since its introduction in 1996, Norvir has generated more than $1 billion in sales

source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...0-2004Aug4.html

So the price went from 14 cents per 100mg to $8.57 per 100mg

Edited May 12, 2007 by slimdog

[ThaiGoon]

Abbott has developed a reputation over the years as one of the toughest negotiators on HIV/AIDS drugs. In 2004, the Chicago-based company stunned AIDS patients around the globe — and some of its own shareholders — when it said it would raise the price of the antiretroviral Norvir by 400 percent.

This isn't strickly true.

Abbott officials said the firm "repriced" Norvir from $1.71 for a daily dose to $8.57 a day because the original standard dosage of 1,200 milligrams was reduced to 100 milligrams when Norvir came to be used primarily as a booster that made other AIDS drugs more effective. Since its introduction in 1996, Norvir has generated more than $1 billion in sales

source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...0-2004Aug4.html

So the price went from 14 cents per 100mg to $8.57 per 100mg

Awesome find, khun slimdog. So that's just 4,800% increase in Norvir price, right? No wonder how they could afford to be even bigger lobbyists in Washington than oil companies.

[sriracha john]

"This compliance with all legal frameworks has also ben confirmed by the 22 US Congressmen in their letter to the Honorable Susan C. Schwab. "We have not suggested that Thailand has failed to comply with particular national or international law. We have not sought to insert the US gov't into any such discussion."

What about the other 513 members of the US Congress? I guess their opinion doesn't count.

So nowe American and other foreign companies are expected to subsidize the healthcare expense for the top 20% of the Thai population? A one half of one percent royalty is a fair price to pay?

And people whose money might be actually be impacted seemed to be perfectly fine with what the Thai gov't is trying to do (per my comment about the share holders.)

Its not quite like you say it is.

Stockholders greeted White with loud applause, and at various times the crowd shouted down the protesters. Only a relative handful of activists actually entered the hall for the stockholder meeting, but a larger number was outside

In the US loud applause indicates support. Hint, they weren't applauding Thailand.

What about the other thousands and thousands and thousands of shareholders? I guess their opinion doesn't count.

Edited May 12, 2007 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

So nowe American and other foreign companies are expected to subsidize the healthcare expense for the top 20% of the Thai population? A one half of one percent royalty is a fair price to pay?

I'm not sure how you Americans are subsidizing Thailand's healthcare expenses as we are talking about a couple of drug companies here. And people whose money might be actually be impacted seemed to be perfectly fine with what the Thai gov't is trying to do (per my comment about the share holders.) I don't see those people who actually have stakes in this matter go up in arms like you and Nick do.

contrary to what you believe, there are a lot of people upset over countries like thailand stealing things from them. currently, we have a number of politicians who have forgotten whom they are suppose to represent.

*Hard to believe they represent people with opposing views to yours, huh?*

and as more and more americans lose their jobs to countries overseas, you will start to see some changes being made in the political arena.

*Yes, I do agree with that. It already started when the Democrats took control of Congress.*

your notion that this is no big deal is incorrect.

the 22 politicians that you mentioned earlier who seem to be siding with thailand are going to be in for a big surprise when the word gets out that they are not representing america on these issues. if they want to be angels, they should have chosen to be a priest.

Shocking they may actually be expressing the view of people in their constituency and not be mouthpieces of big pharma like adelman.

[SiamSquare123]

wow, alot of communists in this thread.

[highdiver]

The American Chamber of Commerce (AmCham) Friday criticized the Brazilian federal government for deciding to infringe the patent of the medicine Efavirenz, used to treat HIV/AIDS patients.

Wow thats sounds likeThailand is not the only one

AmCham, representing more than 3 million companies in the United States, said in a press statement that the move might discourage new investments in the country.

Ahhh... !! so they are going at Brazil as well. looks like they will not be investing in Brazil as well.

The statement said that interrupting negotiations with U.S. pharmaceutical company Merck Sharp & Dohme, the patent holder of the antiretroviral drug, sends "a dangerous signal" to foreign investors.

Yes a "dangerous signal" thats what they are sending out... like any american investor will give a sh##. if there is money to be made in Brazil they will do it and they will not care one second about the drug companies.

Following an initial offer of a 2-percent discount on Efavirenz, Merck presented 30 percent discount on the drug, which was also rejected.

Daniel Christman, AmCham's Senior Vice President for Foreign Affairs, said that Brazil took a "big step" backward by signing such a compulsory license decree, "a few days after" the country was internationally recognized for improving the implementation of intellectual property rights.

Oh my god that sounds like the beginig of this thread. but tis Brazil this time

It is the first time that Brazil has infringed the patent of a medicine.

In 2005, the Brazilian government threatened to take a similar measure with the drug Kaletra, manufactured by Abbott Laboratories. But the company agreed to substantially cut the price, from 1.17 to 0.63 U.S. dollars, in order to avoid patent infringement. It is estimated that this offer will save Brazil 339.5 million dollars in 2006-2011.

so Abott actually have cut the ptice of the drug by nearly 50% and they are still making money.

The patent infringement of Efavirenz will save 30 million dollars in 2007 alone, Brazil's health ministry estimated.

so what do you think?? will Efavirenz drop the price as well. I belive they will.

you see its all clear now.

a drug company makes a drug that saves lives using scinetists and labs that are financed with the aid of govermants and WHO.

drug company sells the drug at out ragous prices and evaluating the world market declares tha the market value is so and so in biliions.

drug company stock prices soar through the roof and the managers get a realy nice bonus.

if all goes well and genric rivals dont come out then they make billions and dont care that there are poor people that can not afford it. if you can not afford you die but the drug company will still make money.

but then Thailand Brazil and even India use a clause from the WTO that allows them to declare a drug as life saving and the drug companies will potentially loose money and the stocks will dump down and the mangers wiil not be getting his billions bonus and how will he tell his wife that they can not afford that new 90 ft sunseeker yacht.....????

So the good old boys call up the politicians and those NGO (who get Billions from the drug companies)are called in to assist in public relations... you know "calling" on the govermant and threatning that this will influence investors and so forth...

if there is no solution then as a last resort they will drop the price so the developing countries will not infringe on patent thus allowing them to continue making more capital.

money makes the world go round!!! it so sad..

[longway]

How does providing free medication to the top 20% of Thailand's population, people who can well afford to pay, show regard for poor people?

sorry i may be being slow but i cannot understand this point. surely it shows regard for poor people because they will have access to the medication also, and they number 80% presumably. it is supposed to be a UNIVERSAL healthcare system after all.

So stealing from foreign companies to provide medicine for weathy Thais is a good thing? Taking for the poor is one thing but when you take money form the shareholders of Abbott to provide for weathy Thais who can afford medicine then offer only a one half of one percent royalty, that is tantamount to stealing. Why should foreign companies be forced to subsidize the healthcare of wealthy Thais? Why is that justice? Its ok to take because those losing are foreigners? That seems to be the attitude.

this was a universal health care programme was started by thaksin long before this dispute. secondly 20% thai = 50% GDP = $7692 pa (based on 13 million 'wealthy' thais). so can this segment of the population 'wealthy' as it is afford to pay $2000 for aids medications or even $1000?

if the motive behind this action is for wealthy thais to make money and supply sub-standard drugs then its a very different scenario.

however even in this scenario this is one bunch of tossers screwing over another bunch of tossers who dont give a sh*t about anyone but their own pockets. abbott charges prices that having nothing to do with meeting the costs of R&D. They increased prices of its one of its drugs by 400% so as to price out drugs used by its rivals and promote its own more expensive alternative. is it a good thing that abbott shareholders make money by ripping off seriously ill people? are not the us govt (funded by taxpayers obviously), insurance companies and charitable foundations etc subsidisng a wealthy pharma company? do abbott's shareholders understand what abbott does to make money? is it right?

isnt this the point of the whole dispute? pharma companies are known to take advantage of patent laws and behave unscrupously, if thailand takes advantage of patent laws do provide drugs for its population why are they thieves and abbott not?

either they are stealing for the rich and greedy to give to the poor, or the rich and greedy are stealing from the rich and greedy. this dispute in itself will not reduce R&D for new drugs. abbott have set on motion a propoganda campaign based on misinformation denounce the thai action, if their case is so solid why lie? obviously abbott are well capable to taking care fo themselves.

why not stand up for poor people who need cheap medicine instead not the murky world of big pharma? they are there to make money and in an industry like this need to be carefully watched to make sure they dont take advantage of their position. thailand is acting within the law and it has had an positive effect on the balance of power. the needs of shareholders and R&D need to be balanced against the needs of the patients, neither side should be disregarded completely.

wow, alot of communists in this thread.

goddamn commmies

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

"This compliance with all legal frameworks has also ben confirmed by the 22 US Congressmen in their letter to the Honorable Susan C. Schwab. "We have not suggested that Thailand has failed to comply with particular national or international law. We have not sought to insert the US gov't into any such discussion."

What about the other 513 members of the US Congress? I guess their opinion doesn't count.

So nowe American and other foreign companies are expected to subsidize the healthcare expense for the top 20% of the Thai population? A one half of one percent royalty is a fair price to pay?

And people whose money might be actually be impacted seemed to be perfectly fine with what the Thai gov't is trying to do (per my comment about the share holders.)

Its not quite like you say it is.

Stockholders greeted White with loud applause, and at various times the crowd shouted down the protesters. Only a relative handful of activists actually entered the hall for the stockholder meeting, but a larger number was outside

In the US loud applause indicates support. Hint, they weren't applauding Thailand.

What about the other thousands and thousands and thousands of shareholders? I guess their opinion doesn't count.

People who don't attend shareholder meetings usually apoint proxies (oh, a bad word). Shareholders usually get a proxy statement before a meeting and can assign their vote to a group who represents their views at the meeting if they don't plan to attend. I guess the majority of those people support the company's position since that was the consensus at the meeting.

Edited May 12, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[nick2k]

wow, alot of communists in this thread.

yeah. I agree - communists.

I am finally seeing the light. what is more scary than realizing that these people are communists is the fact that

so many people in the west are investing so much money into communist countries expecting to get rewarded with

a larger market.

I can't wait for their bubble to burst. because then, we can go back to the way it was before. just the western countries

trading between themselves.

no matter what we do. to the communists, capitalists are evil.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

why not stand up for poor people who need cheap medicine instead not the murky world of big pharma?

A 1/2 of one percent royalty is BS and the government here knows it. As I have said earlier, I normally admire the Health Minister's dedication to the poor. But the way he handled this is in my opinion not called for. Had he offered more reasonable royalties, restricted access to the medicines to the poor and consulted with the affected companies I would have no problem with the action.

Edited May 12, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[longway]

I can't wait for their bubble to burst. because then, we can go back to the way it was before. just the western countries

trading between themselves.

when was that then?

[sriracha john]

"This compliance with all legal frameworks has also ben confirmed by the 22 US Congressmen in their letter to the Honorable Susan C. Schwab. "We have not suggested that Thailand has failed to comply with particular national or international law. We have not sought to insert the US gov't into any such discussion."

What about the other 513 members of the US Congress? I guess their opinion doesn't count.

So nowe American and other foreign companies are expected to subsidize the healthcare expense for the top 20% of the Thai population? A one half of one percent royalty is a fair price to pay?

And people whose money might be actually be impacted seemed to be perfectly fine with what the Thai gov't is trying to do (per my comment about the share holders.)

Its not quite like you say it is.

Stockholders greeted White with loud applause, and at various times the crowd shouted down the protesters. Only a relative handful of activists actually entered the hall for the stockholder meeting, but a larger number was outside

In the US loud applause indicates support. Hint, they weren't applauding Thailand.

What about the other thousands and thousands and thousands of shareholders? I guess their opinion doesn't count.

People who don't attend shareholder meetings usually apoint proxies (oh, a bad word). Shareholders usually get a proxy statement before a meeting and can assign their vote to a group who represents their views at the meeting if they don't plan to attend. I guess the majority of those people support the company's position since that was the consensus at the meeting.

"Guess" is certainly the right word.

How many thousands and thousands of shareholders didn't attend and didn't assign a proxy?

It's the same as "guessing" that 513 congressman actually do support the 22 who signed the letter.

but nevermind... just wanted to point out your inconsistencies.... and that's been accomplished.

Edited May 12, 2007 by sriracha john

[highdiver]

wow, alot of communists in this thread.

yeah. I agree - communists.

I am finally seeing the light. what is more scary than realizing that these people are communists is the fact that

so many people in the west are investing so much money into communist countries expecting to get rewarded with

a larger market.

I can't wait for their bubble to burst. because then, we can go back to the way it was before. just the western countries

trading between themselves.

no matter what we do. to the communists, capitalists are evil.

I am sorry to ask... when you say communist what exactly are you saying?

do you know what communisem is?

are we back to the good old 60s when anyone who thought that American western superiority is not a born right was considered a "comi"??

when i buy a t shirt in MBK and i haggle for the price as i think the price is expensive is it communist?

when you buy a copy DVD in It plaza because its cheaper is it communist?

when a western investor tries to buy at the lowest price is that communist?

when any one is causing a drug comapny to loose billions is he a communist?

Western countries can not trade only with themselves... they are totaly depended on the labour of developing countries, mainly because the western countries are so developed they only "invent " and "R&D" and the actual work is getting done by those poor in the developing countries.

you are right that the bubble will burst. and it will happen when developing countries decide that western countries need to pay more for the service.

Trade agreements as well as IP rights are negotiable as any other. this negotiaition can not be only one tracked to serve the benefit of the rich. and what realy annoys many westerners is that the developing countries are thinking more and more capitalist.. buy for cheap sell expensive.

A lot of the posts in many of threads raise concern about Thai Elite taking advantge of the rural Thai. Are those posters communists? are they equally concerned with the western Elite doing the same thing?

or i they just plain angry that the elite Thais are not letting them make a profit? Its ok for the west to be capitalistic but when rich Thais do it its wrong??

why is it that every time a cwestern apitalist is prevented from making a killer profit the ones who cause this are labled as comunists.

[Plus]

I think the minister made it clear that generic drugs in question will be administered only to people recieving treatment under government healthcare schemes. While EVERY Thai is entitled to free/cheap healthcare, wealthy Thais traditionally stayed out for various reasons.

What was that number? 20% of Thais pay out of their own pocket rather than use 30 baht scheme?

And what percentage of people under HIV treatment can be considered as wealthy Thais?

At the moment I don't buy the argument that hard working Americans will be subsidising rich Thais.

[MiG16]

well in case this is of interest to some members discussing this issue on compulsory licensing, IPR, the case for the poor, the case for/against research by pharma, etc.......

Seminar in Bangkok on "The Importance of Rule of Law in Economic Freedom"

Judge Wichai Ariyanuntaka of the Supreme Court will deliver the Keynote Address on Rethinking Intellectual Property Rights Enforcement in the Light of TRIPS and Specialised Intellectual Property Court. The Keynote address will be followed by a panel discussion consisting of Alec van Gelder from International Policy Network, United Kingdom, Barun Mitra from Liberty Institute, India and Dr. Pichit Likitkijsomboon, Thammasat University, Thailand. The session will be moderated by Dr. Thitinan Pongsudhirak, Chulalongkorn University, Thailand.

This seminar will look at the role of Rule of Law in safeguarding the proper and efficient functioning of market economies. The seminar will be held on May 21st at the Arnoma Hotel, Bangkok.

for info or to register you can call 02 365 0570

(found this in the bangkok post last week..but sorry no link.)

PS. the seminar is open to interested public, and is free of charge. sponsored by the 3 co-organisers

Edited May 14, 2007 by MiG16

[Jai Dee]

Minister of Public Health to explain all facts Thailand's CL to U.S.

The Minister of Public Health Mongkhol Na Songkhla (มงคล ณ สงขลา) will explain all facts of Thailand’s decision to enforce the compulsory licensing (CL) to both U.S.’s public and private sector at Washington D.C.

President of the Government Pharmaceutical Organization (GPO)’s board, Md.Wichai Chokwiwat (วิชัย โชควิวัฒน์), said that Md. Mongkol’s explanation will clarify facts against rumors that Thailand CL will lift more than 30 patented protection.

Md Wichai said that Thailand CL is ready to lift three patented protection, with one patented drug currently lifted by CL.

He indicates it is unnecessary for Thailand to negotiate the matter with drug companies; however, Thailand has given the importance in conducting talks with those companies.

Public Health Minister Mngkhol shrugged off rumours claiming that Thailand is trying to save money from buying patented drug to support the military.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 14 May 2007

[sriracha john]

First, Google's YouTube backs down and now...

Abbott backs off, wants to continue sale of Aids drug

Abbott Laboratories, one of the three pharmaceutical giants whose drugs face compulsory licensing in Thailand, has backed off from its threats, saying it wants to continue selling its HIV/Aids drugs here. Previously, the firm planned to withhold sale of a heat-stable form of Aluvia, its HIV/Aids drug, as punishment for Thailand's compulsory licensing policy.

Representatives of Abbott made the company's stance known yesterday while meeting with Food and Drug Administration (FDA) secretary-general Siriwat Tiptaradol. The FDA also met with representatives from Sanofi-Aventis yesterday.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/15May2007_news03.php

[Jai Dee]

Talks fail on agreement to supply cheap drugs

The process to import cheap generic versions of two expensive medicines looks set to continue after the Public Health Ministry's third round of negotiations for lower prices from the original manufacturers failed yesterday, the health minister said.

A ministry committee for price negotiations on patented essential drugs met representatives of Abbott Laboratories, the patent holder of HIV/Aids treatment Kaletra, for two hours, but the firm insisted it would not lower its price unless the ministry cancelled the compulsory licence issued months ago.

Meanwhile, Sanofi-Aventis, patent holder of heart drug Plavix, offered a special low price but only for limited numbers. The proposal was rejected by the committee, which had expected to receive an offer of cheaper prices without conditions.

The ministry decided to invoke the process of compulsory licensing on Kaletra and Plavix so that it could ignore patents on them and legally import cheaper generic versions of the drugs from India.

Minister Mongkol na Songkhla said in a teleconference call from Switzerland early yesterday that the compulsory licensing would not be cancelled unless the drug companies lowered their prices to less than those for generic copies.

"The compulsory licensing orders is to make the drugs affordable to all, not for commercial purposes," he insisted.

The committee's decision to reject the offers from Abbott and Sanofi-Aventis was praised by Aids activists. Jon Ungphakorn, secretary-general of Thailand's Aids Access Foundation, said the offers, particularly from Abbott, showed that "the drug firms never treated patients as human beings, but business".

He urged the ministry not to hold more talks with Abbott unless it seeks to register its seven new drugs in Thailand.

The US-based drug firm responded to Thailand's compulsory licensing order by withdrawing applications to introduce seven new drugs, including Aluvia, a "heat-stable" version of Kaletra, in Thailand.

Committee chairman Dr Siriwat Thiptaradol said after meeting with Abbott and Sanofi-Aventis that Abbott offered to introduce Aluvia in Thailand and sell it at a discounted rate - US$1,000 (Bt34,500) off its original price of $2,200 per patient per year - on the condition Thailand did not impose compulsory licensing for Aluvia.

Aluvia is one of nearly 20 essential Aids drugs that the Clinton Foundation agreed recently to negotiate on with generic drug firms for bulk purchases at low prices. As a member of the Clinton Foundation Procurement Consortium, Thailand could buy generic Aluvia at a price as low as $695 per patient per year, but compulsory licensing is needed to make such a deal legal within world trade rules.

Sanofi-Aventis, meanwhile, said it would sharply cut its price for Plavix from Bt90 to Bt27 a tablet for 3.4 million tablets every year for 34,000 patients under the government's health security programme and universal health insurance fund.

While rejecting the drug firms' offers, Siriwat said he would report the details to the ministry.

Meanwhile, the Department of Intellectual Property (DIP) plans to re-examine drug patent laws. DIP deputy head Banyong Limprayoonwong said yesterday he would review the amended draft of the 1999 Patent Act, as demanded by academics and Aids activists. The draft was opposed by activists on the grounds it aimed to accelerate patent registrations by eliminating the "pre-objection" process.

Source: The Nation - 15 May 2007

[Galong]

First, Google's YouTube backs down and now...

Abbott backs off, wants to continue sale of Aids drug

Abbott Laboratories, one of the three pharmaceutical giants whose drugs face compulsory licensing in Thailand, has backed off from its threats, saying it wants to continue selling its HIV/Aids drugs here.

Let me complete that sentence for you...

Because they realised that Thailand would steal it if they didn't. They will get away with stealing it because they put across an image of being a poor country when in fact the government COULD pay for this treatment at the regular price if they really cared for the poorer citizens.

[highdiver]

First, Google's YouTube backs down and now...

Abbott backs off, wants to continue sale of Aids drug

Abbott Laboratories, one of the three pharmaceutical giants whose drugs face compulsory licensing in Thailand, has backed off from its threats, saying it wants to continue selling its HIV/Aids drugs here.

Let me complete that sentence for you...

Because they realised that Thailand would steal it if they didn't. They will get away with stealing it because they put across an image of being a poor country when in fact the government COULD pay for this treatment at the regular price if they really cared for the poorer citizens.

please read from the above posts

"Aluvia is one of nearly 20 essential Aids drugs that the Clinton Foundation agreed recently to negotiate on with generic drug firms for bulk purchases at low prices. As a member of the Clinton Foundation Procurement Consortium, Thailand could buy generic Aluvia at a price as low as $695 per patient per year, but compulsory licensing is needed to make such a deal legal within world trade rules."

why should thailand pay 2200usd per patient ? why should thailand pay 1000USD per patient ? if they can get it for 700usd per patient.

Thailand has the right under the law to pass CL.

I posted a few post before that this scheme of threats does not work and that drug companies ultimately drop the price.

they droped it in other countries and they will drop it again.

[TokyoT]

Well at least the white paper convinced me on one thing – The Thai health system is a scheme.

Seems to me the basis for the CL is that because Thailand has a form of universal health coverage and therefore the Thai government has guaranteed their population access to these drugs. But the Thai government feels the drugs cost too much and therefore the only way they can step up to the plate and give the people what they told them they would give them is if they use the CL option.

Which is total <deleted> in any number of ways first and foremost because the Thai government could actually step up to the plate and pay the price and it would hardly bankrupt them. Seemed to be a lot of smoke and mirrors about our budget is X and at Y price we can only treat Z patients. But if we reduce price Y by a factor of A then we can treat XA patients. This kind of falls apart for me because the Thai government is in complete control of the budget X and if the Thai government really wants to treat all of the poor and they want to guarantee a universal type health care SCHEME, then they should set the budget (which they control) accordingly.

Still searching for any real justification for the CL of the heart medication Clopidogrel?

Most of the supporting talk/ documents revolve around the aids drugs.

Also interesting that there is little to no talk about the fact that aids is a lifestyle disease and that if more baht were pumped into aids education less baht would have to be spent on the Western controlled ultra expensive drugs. Seems that Thailand might be better served spending the money on the aids education side where they have more control?

Ah on second thought why bother, lets all just agree to blame it on nasty capitalism, then no one needs to actually take responsibility for anything anymore.

[cclub75]

Ah on second thought why bother, lets all just agree to blame it on nasty capitalism, then no one needs to actually take responsibility for anything anymore.

And it's only the begining...

It looks like they want to... continue. With other drugs !

Cancer next priority in pharma war

Minister unveils newdrug licensing plan

APIRADEE TREERUTKUARKUL

Buoyed by global support for its bid to improve access to cheap medicines, the Public Health Ministry is now eyeing cancer drugs as its next target. Public Health Minister Mongkol Na Songkhla yesterday unveiled a plan to enforce compulsory licensing for cancer drugs next.

''It's essential, as cancer ranks among the top five causes of death for Thais, with accidents, HIV/Aids, heart diseases and elderly people's diseases,'' he said in a telephone interview from Geneva. Previous reports about a move to issue compulsory licences for cancer drugs could not be confirmed until Dr Mongkol spoke yesterday.

The National Health Security Office (NHSO) is currently studying the pros and cons of issuing licences for a group of cancer drugs which are still under patent in Thailand.

In the 2006 fiscal year, the government spent more than 1.2 billion baht on about 50,000 cancer patients receiving treatment through the universal healthcare scheme run by the NHSO.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/16May2007_news01.php

[endure]

Also interesting that there is little to no talk about the fact that aids is a lifestyle disease and that if more baht were pumped into aids education less baht would have to be spent on the Western controlled ultra expensive drugs. Seems that Thailand might be better served spending the money on the aids education side where they have more control?

This always make me laugh. What you really mean is that AIDS is, by and large, a sexually transmitted disease. You then go on to imply that 'education' (ie less shagging) would lessen the spread of AIDS. Your premise is true. What it ignores is that the sole biological reason for the existence of sentient life is to propagate itself and thus less shagging is not a realistic option.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

What it ignores is that the sole biological reason for the existence of sentient life is to propagate itself and thus less shagging is not a realistic option.

If you don't believe public health measures including intensive education can significantly lower the HIV rate look at Cuba. They have one of the lowest HIV rates in the world. But of course following Cuba's example the right to infect new victims and generally be irresponsible would have to be addressed and we wouldn't want that.

[Prakanong]

""The compulsory licensing orders is to make the drugs affordable to all, not for commercial purposes," he insisted."

So they offered to sell the heart drug at a low price to those on the health scheme but Thailand wants the price lower for their rich too.

[The Skipper]

http://www.thaimyths.com/index.cfm

Below are some quotes gleened from the Thai myths website regarding the pharmacutical industry.

Thailand’s recent decision to infringe patents has to do with making high profits – not lowering costs.

According To A World Health Organization Commission Study, Thailand Places A Weighted Average Tariff Rate Of 18 Percent On Finished Pharmaceutical Products – a tariff that brought the Thai government over $67.2 million in revenue during 2001 alone.

This figure accounted for almost .006 percent of the country’s gross domestic product.

Thailand’s GPO, Thailand’s Government Pharmaceutical Organization is a state-run, profit-making entity with a history of corruption.

“In 2005, the GPO made a profit of around $35.5 million and reinvested only about 2 percent of that sum into research and development.

“The GPO’s notorious practice explains why it is better known among its clients, pharmacists and health activists as the Sua Norn Kin (skimming profits) agency.”

An audit found the GPO actually charged far more for drugs than did private suppliers.

“GPO’s price quotations for a list of 100 drugs were up to 1,000 per cent higher than those quoted by private suppliers.

The GPO added a 20-per-cent mark-up on prices of drugs it bought from private suppliers, passing it on to hospitals”

The Nation: The state drug-maker has not learned any lessons since the public health ministry medical-procurement scandal in 1998. “A recent report by the Office of the Auditor General stating that the Government Pharmaceutical Organisation (GPO) sold medical supplies to state agencies at inflated prices, has shown that the state drug-maker has not learned any lessons since the Public Health Ministry medical-procurement scandal in 1998 in which it was also implicated.”

[Prakanong]

Skipper

I bet Thailand did not think it would come under this sort of scrutiny - corruption hates sunlight a bit like Dracula!!!!

I hate being cynical but when altruistic rasons are mentioned by any official in thailand its time to look at the money trail - not an altruistic bone in their bodies.

If Thailand cares about its patients then buy the drugs through the Clinton Foundation from the Indian companies who can make better, cheaper drugs unlike the corrupt and incompetent GPO.

The fact is somebody see's a gravy train from the GPO and they want part of it but its opened up a can of worms and just like Corporal Jones would say in "Dad's Army", "They do not like it up them"

Edited May 16, 2007 by Prakanong