Thailand Blacklisted From Receiving New AIDS Drugs

[nick2k]

There's no chance whatsoever that a company like Abbot can force WTO to change its rules. Too late.

I just did some research on the wto. and unlike what you suggest, that the laws can't be changed, THEY CAN!!!

in fact, the wto rules seem to be constantly in negotiations.

read it and weep...

http://www.wto.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Organization

http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/wto/background.html

I am sure when people see how unfair the current version of compulsory licensing is, it will be amended.

[nick2k]

I just finished reading the front page of that website "www.thailies.com".

and what they are saying is true. people should check it out.

[ThaiGoon]

Did "www.thailies.com" say anything about the fact that these poor pharmaceutical companies who "need" profits in AIDS drugs from small countries like Thailand, Brazil and India to do R&D were the biggest lobbyists in America from 1998-2006 by contributing over $1.1 billion? It must be terrible when one day these poor companies will no longer have enough money to be the biggest political contributors in the world....because countries like Thailand and Brazil legally issue a couple of CL's on their durgs.

[Jai Dee]

DRUG WAR

The Nation's statement on USA Innovation ad

Thursday's full-page advertisement in The Nation by USA for Innovation regarding the drug-patent war between Thailand and the United States has triggered criticism and questions regarding the newspaper's stand on the controversy.

The editorial department, therefore, would like to issue the following statement to reaffirm our working principles and reasons why the ad was published:

1. The display ad, like any piece of advertising, had nothing to do with the editorial department's stand on any issue. This is a result of long-established working principles. At The Nation, journalists and the advertising department have clear-cut, separate roles to ensure minimum conflicts of interest.

2. The Nation operates under globally accepted principles that no ad reflects a newspaper's editorial stand on any particular issue. The newsroom's editorial stand is presented through the newspaper's editorials only.

3. We have upheld professional standards in reporting every issue, including the drug-patent controversy, which means that all sides of the argument have been presented to our readers, and this included the contentious points in the USA for Innovation ad. Our journalists' stands on the matter have been published in the opinion section, all of which can be accessed at www.nationmultimedia.com.

4. Since the ad in question has generated accusations that several parts of the statement were very inaccurate, we welcome counter-arguments from the other side, which is invited to state its case in appropriate response to the US campaign. This, we hope, will benefit the Thai public, who will be able to absorb information from all concerned parties in this major bilateral and international controversy.

The Nation's Editorial Department

Source: The Nation - 12 May 2007

[Jai Dee]

GPO may sue over adverts

Board chief Wichai says legal action no reflection on country-to-country ties

The state-run Government Pharmaceutical Organisation (GPO) yesterday threatened to take legal action against the USA for Innovation group for defaming its reputation and its well-known Aids drug via advertisements in newspapers.

Dr Wichai Chokewiwat, chairman of the GPO board, told a press conference that an advertisement placed in The Nation on Thursday and in the Bangkok Post and its Thai-language sister paper Post Today yesterday had "distorted" some information and damaged the GPO's reputation.

"Legal action would not affect the relationship between the two countries as it would be a case between organisation and organisation, not state and state," he said.

Wichai said he was considering the next step with the GPO's legal team.

USA for Innovation is an American organisation run by Kenneth Adelman, a senior counsellor at Edelman Public Relations Worldwide. Among its major clients are giant drug-makers. One is Abbott Laboratories, producer of the expensive life-saving Aids drug Kaletra, on which the Thai government decided to lift the patent so that a cheaper generic version could be sold. Other drug firms on Edelman's books include Merck, AstraZeneca, Johnson & Johnson, Novartis and Pfizer.

In the provocative, full-page advert, USA for Innovation claimed that GPO-Vir, a generic version of an anti-retroviral drug, had a high resistance of between 39.6 and 58 per cent, making it "one of the worst cases of HIV drug resistance in the world". The advert claimed the figures came from a 2005 study by Mahidol University.

It was not clear which study the advert referred to. However, Wasan Chantratita, head of the virology department at Mahidol's Ramathibodi Hospital, said the figures were quite close to those in his paper, which studied drug resistance among those who had carried the HIV/Aids virus for years. Wasan studied 1,850 long-term patients with a resistance to first-line drugs and found 948 had resistance to GPO-Vir.

"The rate of resistance is high because our studied group is the one that is supposed to resist GPO-Vir, not because the drug is substandard, and I never said that the drug was one of the worst," Wasan said.

Wichai said he believed that USA for Innovation "intended to mislead the public by mixing up information to convince the public that the rate of resistance is among all people living with HIV in the country".

The GPO introduced the drug, which is a combination of three previously developed anti-retrovirals, to Thailand in 2003 with the aim of providing people in need with an affordable drug.

The advert stirred up a publicity war between Thai health officials and Aids activists on the one hand and the US pharmaceutical industry, sparked when the Public Health Ministry decided to issue a compulsory licence for Merck's Aids drug efavirenz last November.

The war became more intense in March when the ministry announced its decision to exercise its rights under the World Trade Organisation to compulsorily license two more drugs. Abbott's Kaletra and Plavix, made by Sanofi-Aventis.

Thai Aids activists and academics who support the use of compulsory licences are now preparing to launch their own advert in the mass media.

The USA for Innovation advert provoked a debate about the mass media and their social responsibility. However, Jon Ungpakorn, secretary-general of Thailand's Aids Access Foundation, said he did not think it was wrong for newspapers to publish the advert.

"An ad is an ad. It always contains a message of propaganda, and it did not reflect an editorial point of view," he said in a telephone interview.

Jon said, however, that it would be better if newspapers clearly showed readers that the provocative message was an advertisement and not an editorial.

He also saw a positive point in the USA for Innovation advert.

"Read it carefully", he said. "You will see the advertiser's self-interest. It pretended to be concerned about Thai Aids patients but intended to provoke them into using its brand-name drugs."

Source: The Nation - 12 May 2007

[Jai Dee]

'Work together for the common good'

Ex-US trade rep says govt, drug firms should both back down

Ashley Wills, senior international adviser for WilmerHale, a US law firm, has called on Thailand not to risk further damaging its international reputation by invoking compulsory licensing to get around drug patents.

At the same time he said that drug companies failed to take Thailand's request for a review of their pricing policies seriously enough at the early stages of the negotiations.

"The drug companies have underestimated the challenges facing the Thai government," said Wills, a former assistant US Trade Representative and a veteran diplomat.

So when Thai public health officials decided to go ahead to invoke compulsory licensing, the drug companies were shocked. In November last year, the Thai officials invoked compulsory licensing on Efavirenz, an Aids-treatment drug owned by Merck & Co. By doing so, it suspended patent protection and allowed the Government Pharmaceutical Organisation to produce a generic drug based on this patent.

The issue does not end there, as Thai health officials have also invoked compulsory licensing on Kaletra, a "second-defence" drug for Aids owned by Abbot Laboratories, and also Plavix, a heart-disease drug produced by Sanofi Aventis. This has prompted an uproar among US and European pharmaceutical companies, and led the US Trade Representative to place Thailand on its "Priority Watch List", a list of countries that violate US interests in copyrights and patents.

Wills, who left Bangkok yesterday, made his trip here to get first-hand knowledge on the controversial move by the Thai health officials to invoke compulsory licensing. He said he was "an ambassador of goodwill", representing "friends of Thailand" who are concerned with the direction this country is taking. However, he admitted that the law firm he is working for has drug companies as clients.

Wills said the challenge for both sides is to work together to find a solution, because developing treatment for those affected by HIV should be the ultimate goal for all.

"At stake is literally a debate about life. Understandably, emotions run high. There is nothing more primal than self-preservation. But we must establish a more robust dialogue about improving access to public health," he said.

"Drug companies must recognise the challenges facing governments in providing treatment to its citizens. Governments, on the other hand, must recognise the importance of intellectual property protection to attract investment to develop those treatments."

On May 21, representative of the drug companies and Thai health officials will meet again to try to strike a compromise. The Thai officials claim that they have tried to talk the drug companies into cooperating with them about their pricing policies, yet their responses have been negative. At the same time, the drug companies claim that they were not consulted adequately prior to the Thai government's move to invoke compulsory licensing.

Thailand's health system is not adequately funded, although it receives a budget second only to education. Prices of drugs to treat HIV/Aids are way beyond the patients' ability to pay, putting a heavy burden on public health authorities, who also argue that the practice of compulsory licensing is permissible under the rules of the World Trade Organisation. Brazil has also invoked compulsory licensing, incurring the wrath of the US.

Wills said invoking compulsory licensing would produce only a short-term gain for the Thai government. He said that in the longer term it would hurt Thailand's reputation and destroy the climate to do business in this country. He said Thailand was signalling that it did not honour intellectual copyright and patent protection.

"The decision to override medical patents is not in the long-term interests of the people of Thailand. Drug companies require intellectual-property protection to develop medicines and to make them available to those in need. Nearly three million Americans are currently working to research and develop more than 70 per cent of the world's medicines - the very medicines that Thailand's patients depend upon for survival," Wills said.

Source: The Nation - 12 May 2007

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

GPO may sue over adverts

Board chief Wichai says legal action no reflection on country-to-country ties

The state-run Government Pharmaceutical Organisation (GPO) yesterday threatened to take legal action against the USA for Innovation group for defaming its reputation and its well-known Aids drug via advertisements in newspapers.

Dr Wichai Chokewiwat, chairman of the GPO board, told a press conference that an advertisement placed in The Nation on Thursday and in the Bangkok Post and its Thai-language sister paper Post Today yesterday had "distorted" some information and damaged the GPO's reputation.

"Legal action would not affect the relationship between the two countries as it would be a case between organisation and organisation, not state and state," he said.

Source: The Nation - 12 May 2007

If they sue in US courts they will be in deep sh*t. The GPO apparently doesn't know about the rules of discovery in the US. The discovery process will eat them alive. I am sure the defense attorneys will demand look at certain records they may not think are relaveant to the case. If their attorneys can't quash the demand and they refuse to submit the material, then its all over.

If they sue in a Thai court then enforcing the judgement is problematic.

Edited May 12, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[Jai Dee]

A tale of drugs, lies and lobbyists

I just hope the title of this article is able to turn our readers on in the same fashion as the Hollywood movie "Sex, Lies and Videotape" released in 1989 once did.

Nonetheless, our PG-13 audience doesn't have to be afraid to read the following. The Hollywood cliche I've heard in many films - "What you think may not be what it is" - applies here. Like the disappointing endings of many Hollywood films, the following story, which should have been "The Insider", might turn out to be simply "True Lies".

The story that I am about to share with you is about a self-proclaimed American saviour who acts as if he cares about the plight of sick patients in a developing country. The lead in this movie, however, is not Angelina Jolie but Kenneth Adelman, the executive director of USA for Innovation.

I must confess that in my 20-year experience as a trade reporter, I heard the name of USA for Innovation for the first time this week. It makes me wonder why the organisation chose to be active right now when Thai political life is less than ordinary.

Yes, I just heard of the organisation on Wednesday, after a small chaotic scene erupted in The Nation's newsroom. Reporters debated the merits of an advertisement that severely slammed the Thai government's decision to suspend the patent rights on selected drugs. The ad, printed on Thursday, reads: "The Wrong Prescription for Thailand".

Many of our readers phoned in to voice their anger, asking why the newspaper had not done a better job of choosing the ads. Some Thai non-governmental organisations threatened to stage a protest against the newspaper for choosing the ad money over the plight of HIV/Aids patients. A pharmacy lecturer said the paper had "sold its soul", to which our editor, Tulsathit Taptim, replied that we just sold our advertisement space.

In short, these critics disagreed with the statements in the ad and asked why The Nation let the US organisation use our newspaper's space to slam our own people.

For your information: the advertising and editorial departments are absolutely separate. Normally, the editorial department has no idea which advertisers will buy space in the paper the next day. The dummy that we get says only whether the advertisement will cover half of a page or a full page. As our editor said, the editorial department is not supposed to know what ads we will carry to ensure that we will be able to work without advertisers' influence.

The ad in question claimed that GPO-vir, a copy HIV treatment made by Thailand's Government Pharmaceutical Organisation (GPO), had one of the worst cases of HIV drug resistance. The ad ends with a strong statement: "We urge the leadership to protect the people of Thailand." I almost raised my fist to back up the powerful statement from the US activists, thinking that they might be people who really care about Thailand. But then when the ads briefly criticised the Thai government, I was enticed to check the website.

So I click on "www.USAforInnovation.org" to check what this group has to say to promote US innovation.

Frankly, before loading up the website, I was expecting something exciting about the US drive for innovation. I was expecting, for instance, to see pictures of sophisticated DNA diagrams to showcase US innovation and confirm that knowledge originating from the US should be sanctified.

But the website turned out to be a disappointing climax to the movie in my head. And I must say that the title of the website is a shame for all American inventors.

The website didn't feature anything innovative by my level-headed standard. The website didn't seem to have any innovation to brag about, but rather was focused on saying bad things about Thailand.

There's a picture of a boring grey-haired old man, Kenneth Adelman, the executive director of USA for Innovation. And the home page featured the press releases with the headline: "USA for Innovation Announces Advertising Campaign in Thailand", while some of the other releases accuse Thailand of the theft of American assets. There is also a letter from Adelman to the members of the US Congress to take action against on the Thai government because of the compulsory licensing decision, and a news article featuring Adelman published in the Washington Times that recommends Washington take action against the Thai government.

I don't have to tell you in detail what was said in the website, just check The Nation's Friday paper, which came in a package with the explanation from the Public Health Ministry rebutting every single point raised by the website. If you believe what the Thai Ministry said, the points appearing on the USA for Innovation's website are lies. I leave it to you to decide who's the liar in this game.

Reading through the website, there were also moments when I was almost led to think that, perhaps, USA for Innovation really cared about Thailand. Otherwise, why would the website dedicate virtually all its space to Thailand while barely mentioning the piracy problem in China or Vietnam? Adelman must have had a touching experience in Thailand, which is why he wants to save our country from, say, the generic drugs from the Government Pharmaceutical Organisation.

So, let's see who Adelman is. According to the USA for Innovation's website, Adelman also currently serves as a member of the Defence Policy Board. He also held various offices in the US administration. But it didn't say anywhere in his CV how he came across Thailand.

However, for some unknown reason, USA for Innovation, or Adelman, is obviously and alarmingly obsessed with Thailand. Does this self-proclaimed non-profit-organisation act purely in good faith?

Instead of citing the plight of HIV patients, whoever is behind the website and the ongoing effort might be better off explaining things in a clear and simple manner - that it all comes down to the profits of drug companies, which want to recoup high investments in research. The problem with Thailand is not the wrong prescription but rather an overdose of innuendoes about Thailand.

Also, I wonder whether Adelman, who is a frequent critic on American TV and a contributor to US newspapers, expresses his opinions on the basis of his conscience. Or whether he lip-syncs for whoever paid for the website and the drug companies lurking behind the scene.

Editorial Opinion by Jeerawat Na Thalang - The Nation - 12 May 2007

[Galong]

Did "www.thailies.com" say anything about the fact that these poor pharmaceutical companies who "need" profits in AIDS drugs from small countries like Thailand, Brazil and India to do R&D were the biggest lobbyists in America from 1998-2006 by contributing over $1.1 billion? It must be terrible when one day these poor companies will no longer have enough money to be the biggest political contributors in the world....because countries like Thailand and Brazil legally issue a couple of CL's on their durgs.

Thailand is not a poor country. Abbot offered a deal of just US$1000 for a year's supply of the aids medicine. It's Thailand's responsibility to take care of its poor people, not US companies.

Yes, they are making massive profits, but that's what they are in business for. Stealing their formula is not justified... it's simply stealing... something that Thailand does on every opportunity be it DVDs, clothes, watches or medicine.

[ThaiGoon]

Did "www.thailies.com" say anything about the fact that these poor pharmaceutical companies who "need" profits in AIDS drugs from small countries like Thailand, Brazil and India to do R&D were the biggest lobbyists in America from 1998-2006 by contributing over $1.1 billion? It must be terrible when one day these poor companies will no longer have enough money to be the biggest political contributors in the world....because countries like Thailand and Brazil legally issue a couple of CL's on their durgs.

Thailand is not a poor country. Abbot offered a deal of just US$1000 for a year's supply of the aids medicine. It's Thailand's responsibility to take care of its poor people, not US companies.

Yes, they are making massive profits, but that's what they are in business for. Stealing their formula is not justified... it's simply stealing... something that Thailand does on every opportunity be it DVDs, clothes, watches or medicine.

[Jai Dee]

Here is a link to the white paper published in February this year by the Ministry of Public Health and the National Health Security Office of Thailand.

[ThaiGoon]

Cheers Jai Dee. I hope people who have spent a lot of time in this thread condemning the Thai gov't will take a small fraction of their time reading that paper.

[Prakanong]

Did "www.thailies.com" say anything about the fact that these poor pharmaceutical companies who "need" profits in AIDS drugs from small countries like Thailand, Brazil and India to do R&D were the biggest lobbyists in America from 1998-2006 by contributing over $1.1 billion? It must be terrible when one day these poor companies will no longer have enough money to be the biggest political contributors in the world....because countries like Thailand and Brazil legally issue a couple of CL's on their durgs.

Welcome back TG

Companies do need profits to grow and to survive.

While I can see the need for a CL for HIV drugs there was no need for the heart drug CL - it opened up a whole new ball game and if Thailand want to play hardball in that they need to understand people will protect their own back yard too.

I am sure when you go to work for some electronics giant or start your own company you will expect your IP to be protected

The fact is Thailand did not enter into negotiations with the companies before the CL. While this is allowed its not in the spirit of the TRIPS agreement.

The other fact is the GPO is a joke and can not produce medicine to the standards a 9 year old in his gardens shed could with his junior chemistry set. Just as the health minister has jumped on the back of Bill Clintons Foundation for PR purposes now they should have talked to them before and got decent drug cheaper.

All this face saving PR work is a joke

Edited May 12, 2007 by Prakanong

[Prakanong]

There's no chance whatsoever that a company like Abbot can force WTO to change its rules. Too late.

I just did some research on the wto. and unlike what you suggest, that the laws can't be changed, THEY CAN!!!

in fact, the wto rules seem to be constantly in negotiations.

read it and weep...

http://www.wto.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Organization

http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/wto/background.html

I am sure when people see how unfair the current version of compulsory licensing is, it will be amended.

Never mind about changing the WTO rules - economic reality and returns to investors comes into it

I work in clinical research - in human trials after in vitro and animals.

We have many candidate compounds - some make it past phase 1 saftety many fail

Many get to phase 3 and fail - very expensive

OK so the team are sitting around a table - the cake is only so big

You have 3 candidate drugs - you can only pay for 2 trials

I drug for asthma 1 drug for type 2 diabetes and a HIV drug

What are your returns and the chance of some tin pot dictatorship stealing your drug

Bye Bye HIV drug - this is real life

It becomes what is known as an orphan drug - somebody else can come in and develop it but not many do even with the WHO grants - is Thailand going to - not a chance as they do not have the skills.

[ThaiGoon]

The fact is Thailand did not enter into negotiations with the companies before the CL. While this is allowed its not in the spirit of the TRIPS agreement.

Read page 13 of the paper posted by Jai Dee. Here's some excerpt:

"under all national and international legal frameworkds, there is no need for prior negotiation. Nevertheless, the Ministry of Public Health had tried trhough several means and mechanisms between 2004 and 2006. In Apirl 2005,..." Go read it yourself. I'm a bit too lazy to quote the whole thing.

[Jai Dee]

Responses by Thai public health officials on drug patent case

Thailand broke the patent on the antiretroviral drug ‘Efavirenz' produced by U.S. pharmaceutical company Merck Sharp and Dohme in November 2006. As a consequence, the company has criticized the Government Pharmaceutical Organization (GPO) for producing substandard medicines while claiming that patients have higher resistance to the drugs.

In response, the Chairman of the Government Pharmaceutical Organization (GPO), Dr. Wichai Chokwiwat, talks about the efficacy of GPO-Vir, an inexpensive and effective antiretroviral drug regimen for HIV-infected patients, saying the drug has been tested and bioequivalence study has been conducted. Dr. Wichai says GPO-Vir has successfully reduced the number of virus in 96 out of 100 AIDS patients in a clinic, and a few of them have developed resistance to the drug.

Dr. Sombat Tanprasertsuk, the Director of the Aids, Tuberculosis and Sexually Transmitted Diseases Bureau, says GPO-Vir is a fixed-dose combination of three drugs, namely stavudine, lamivudine and nevirapine. According to the study in 2005, only 4.9 percent of the patients developed resistance to GPO-Vir during first six months. In the next six months, the figure rose to 7.1 percent. Two years later, the number increased to 14.6 percent. However, Dr. Sombat says the report claiming that the up to 58 percent of the patients developed higher resistance to the drug is distorted. Thus, he would like the patients to be confident of GPO-Vir.

Regardless of the drug patent controversy, GPO-Vir has become an affordable ARV treatment for many people with HIV/AIDS in Thailand.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 12 May 2007

[Prakanong]

Responses by Thai public health officials on drug patent case

Thailand broke the patent on the antiretroviral drug ‘Efavirenz' produced by U.S. pharmaceutical company Merck Sharp and Dohme in November 2006. As a consequence, the company has criticized the Government Pharmaceutical Organization (GPO) for producing substandard medicines while claiming that patients have higher resistance to the drugs.

In response, the Chairman of the Government Pharmaceutical Organization (GPO), Dr. Wichai Chokwiwat, talks about the efficacy of GPO-Vir, an inexpensive and effective antiretroviral drug regimen for HIV-infected patients, saying the drug has been tested and bioequivalence study has been conducted. Dr. Wichai says GPO-Vir has successfully reduced the number of virus in 96 out of 100 AIDS patients in a clinic, and a few of them have developed resistance to the drug.

Dr. Sombat Tanprasertsuk, the Director of the Aids, Tuberculosis and Sexually Transmitted Diseases Bureau, says GPO-Vir is a fixed-dose combination of three drugs, namely stavudine, lamivudine and nevirapine. According to the study in 2005, only 4.9 percent of the patients developed resistance to GPO-Vir during first six months. In the next six months, the figure rose to 7.1 percent. Two years later, the number increased to 14.6 percent. However, Dr. Sombat says the report claiming that the up to 58 percent of the patients developed higher resistance to the drug is distorted. Thus, he would like the patients to be confident of GPO-Vir.

Regardless of the drug patent controversy, GPO-Vir has become an affordable ARV treatment for many people with HIV/AIDS in Thailand.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 12 May 2007

Where are these bioequivalence studies published?

Were they conducted under GCP?

Most ethical and moral drug companies publish their results!

What about the Mahidol study showing how shit GPO drugs were - roflamo

These guys are numpties - amateurs in a big boys world - can not even copy properly never mind develop something themselves - says its all

Edited May 12, 2007 by Prakanong

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

Cheers Jai Dee. I hope people who have spent a lot of time in this thread condemning the Thai gov't will take a small fraction of their time reading that paper.

One half of one percent royalty to the patent holder? That is spitting in the face of those who invested the time and money to develop new drugs. Suppose the US scientist who spliced jasmine rice genes with a variety that can be easily grown in the US decided to make his product commercially available, do you think Thailand would be staisfied with a royalty of 1/2 of 1% for the seed sold? The government and the farmers organizations here accused the scientist of stealing from Thailand. The government and the farmers here attacked the scientist and the farmers held protest rallies outside the US Embassy including a traditional cursing ceremony. The scientist said he would not make the seed available on the world market. The scientist to my knowledge he never did.

When the boot is on the other foot Thailand acts much differently. The MOH has acquired the drugs acquired by breeching the patent saying they would be used to treat the poor. But by the MOH's own admission far more than the poor will have access to drugs acquired by breeching the patent. In fact, according to the MOH document only 2% of Thais are not covered by the program the program. Middle class Thais and apparently most upper class Thais fall under the free drugs program. Those groups could afford to pay some if not all of the cost. To show good faith, Thailand could make a more reasonable royalty payment for the drugs but as we have seen that isn't likely to happen.

From the report:

"All of the 62 million Thais who are covered by one of the three above-mentioned national

public health insurance schemes are entitled to full access of all medicines in the essential

drugs list, including almost 900 items of drugs, many of them patented"

The reports suggests that only 2% of Thailand's population is covered by private insurance.

Edited May 12, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[ThaiGoon]

Where are these bioequivalence studies published?

Were they conducted under GCP?

Most ethical and moral drug companies publish their results!

What about the Mahidol study showing how shit GPO drugs were - roflamo

These guys are numpties - amateurs in a big boys world - can not even copy properly never mind develop something themselves - says its all

Prakanong, Jai Dee posted this a few posts above yours:

"In the provocative, full-page advert, USA for Innovation claimed that GPO-Vir, a generic version of an anti-retroviral drug, had a high resistance of between 39.6 and 58 per cent, making it "one of the worst cases of HIV drug resistance in the world". The advert claimed the figures came from a 2005 study by Mahidol University.

It was not clear which study the advert referred to. However, Wasan Chantratita, head of the virology department at Mahidol's Ramathibodi Hospital, said the figures were quite close to those in his paper, which studied drug resistance among those who had carried the HIV/Aids virus for years. Wasan studied 1,850 long-term patients with a resistance to first-line drugs and found 948 had resistance to GPO-Vir.

"The rate of resistance is high because our studied group is the one that is supposed to resist GPO-Vir, not because the drug is substandard, and I never said that the drug was one of the worst," Wasan said.

Wichai said he believed that USA for Innovation "intended to mislead the public by mixing up information to convince the public that the rate of resistance is among all people living with HIV in the country".

Try reading. It should help.

[Prakanong]

Where are these bioequivalence studies published?

Were they conducted under GCP?

Most ethical and moral drug companies publish their results!

What about the Mahidol study showing how shit GPO drugs were - roflamo

These guys are numpties - amateurs in a big boys world - can not even copy properly never mind develop something themselves - says its all

Prakanong, Jai Dee posted this a few posts above yours:

"In the provocative, full-page advert, USA for Innovation claimed that GPO-Vir, a generic version of an anti-retroviral drug, had a high resistance of between 39.6 and 58 per cent, making it "one of the worst cases of HIV drug resistance in the world". The advert claimed the figures came from a 2005 study by Mahidol University.

It was not clear which study the advert referred to. However, Wasan Chantratita, head of the virology department at Mahidol's Ramathibodi Hospital, said the figures were quite close to those in his paper, which studied drug resistance among those who had carried the HIV/Aids virus for years. Wasan studied 1,850 long-term patients with a resistance to first-line drugs and found 948 had resistance to GPO-Vir.

"The rate of resistance is high because our studied group is the one that is supposed to resist GPO-Vir, not because the drug is substandard, and I never said that the drug was one of the worst," Wasan said.

Wichai said he believed that USA for Innovation "intended to mislead the public by mixing up information to convince the public that the rate of resistance is among all people living with HIV in the country".

Try reading. It should help.

I would like to see the protocol before making an informed response.

Its not just HIV drugs though - the GPO is well known in the industry for not making quality drugs - they would never get a licence to export to anywhere - they are just not up to GMP and FDA standards

Thailand can and does produce quality medicine - just look at the cluster of pharma's producing down in Samut Prakarn. Thing is though the best talent follows the money.

Yeah I can read - I will take that on board otherwise you will start calling me a farang monkey or something and get banned again ;-))

[slimdog]

Prakanong

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, other countries do have significant experience in the manufacture and sometimes improvement of drugs, maybe these small generic companies don't have the expertise of the large Pharmaceutical companies in coming up with truely original ideas, but once a drug has been launched they do seriously look at improving on the formulation.

One thing that struck me last week, was when Bill Clinton announced a new hiv medication, which is basically a re-formulation and packaging of three popular 1st line medicines (Viread,Lamivir and Stocrin), which will be repackaged as a single once a day capsule, was that if it was fully left up to the large Pharmaceutical companies, such a medication wouldn't appear, even though from both a patients point of view and the health authorities, such a medicine is ideal due to cost, ease of taking, and ease of ordering and storage.

As for the Pharmaceutical companies themselves, they know that ALL of the developed countries have already signed an agreement with the WTO, that except for National emergencies eg Bird Flu, they will undertake never to issue a Compulsory Licence, which therefore does guarantee that any new medicine will be significantly rewarded. That I believe (although maybe wrong) was part of the Cancun agreement.

[Prakanong]

Cheers Jai Dee. I hope people who have spent a lot of time in this thread condemning the Thai gov't will take a small fraction of their time reading that paper.

One half of one percent royalty to the patent holder? That is spitting in the face of those who invested the time and money to develop new drugs. Suppose the US scientist who spliced jasmine rice genes with a variety that can be easily grown in the US decided to make his product commercially available, do you think Thailand would be staisfied with a royalty of 1/2 of 1% for the seed sold? The government and the farmers organizations here accused the scientist of stealing from Thailand. The government and the farmers here attacked the scientist and the farmers held protest rallies outside the US Embassy including a traditional cursing ceremony. The scientist said he would not make the seed available on the world market The scientist to my knowledge he never did.

When the boot is on the other foot Thailand acts much differently. The MOH has acquired the drugs acquired by breeching the patent saying they would be used to treat the poor. But by the MOH's own admission far more than the poor will have access to drugs acquired by breeching the patent. In fact, according to the MOH documant only 2% of Thais are not covered by the program the program. Middle class Thais and apparently most upper class Thais fall under the free drugs program. Those groups could afford to pay some if not all of the cost. To show good faith, Thailand could make a more reasonable royalty payment for the drugs but as we have seen that isn't likely to happen.

From the report:

"All of the 62 million Thais who are covered by one of the three above-mentioned national

public health insurance schemes are entitled to full access of all medicines in the essential

drugs list, including almost 900 items of drugs, many of them patented"

The reports suggests that only 2% of Thailand's population is covered by private insurance.

We all know they are hypocrites - its just good they are getting a world wide exposure now because they took on somebody who will bite back

I will get slated again for this but I sometimes ask - Name one scientific or medical breakthrough by a Thai, a engineering feat on a world scale anything developed by them - there is nowt - Name one Thai Nobel prize winner or any other international award of standing?

They bring in farangs or Japanese for everything - could not even build the BTS as my pal sayd

Maybe Thaigoon will be first but I am not betting my pubes in it ;-))

[Prakanong]

Prakanong

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, other countries do have significant experience in the manufacture and sometimes improvement of drugs, maybe these small generic companies don't have the expertise of the large Pharmaceutical companies in coming up with truely original ideas, but once a drug has been launched they do seriously look at improving on the formulation.

One thing that struck me last week, was when Bill Clinton announced a new hiv medication, which is basically a re-formulation and packaging of three popular 1st line medicines (Viread,Lamivir and Stocrin), which will be repackaged as a single once a day capsule, was that if it was fully left up to the large Pharmaceutical companies, such a medication wouldn't appear, even though from both a patients point of view and the health authorities, such a medicine is ideal due to cost, ease of taking, and ease of ordering and storage.

As for the Pharmaceutical companies themselves, they know that ALL of the developed countries have already signed an agreement with the WTO, that except for National emergencies eg Bird Flu, they will undertake never to issue a Compulsory Licence, which therefore does guarantee that any new medicine will be significantly rewarded. That I believe (although maybe wrong) was part of the Cancun agreement.

I totally agree that many companies can and do make generics to a very high standard - my argument never says that they do not. I say the GPO of Thailand are notoriously bad.

Some of the Indian companies are brilliant - I have been there recently and know about some of them. A ex WHO Dr I work with says the vaccine production in Pune had a lot of returns but they are producing on a large scale good vaccines too

Yes big western Pharma would not put together the formulation the Clinton Foundation is doing - totally agree. That is why foundations like the Clinton and Gates Foundations are a force for good in the world.

Bird flu if and when the pandemic comes will be an interesting if tragic. We have a vaccine - there will not be enough to go around in the first phase. Some countries have paid for first divvies - some countries ignore - who gets it first. If in Thailand I might get kidnapped - we get it first working for the company that has it ;-)

The queues down Wireless might be big and not for the Embassy ;-)

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

Some of the poor who are entitled to free medication.

From the MFA website:

"while Thailand is not a poor country, we are a developing country. The gap in income disparity and distribution of wealth remains wide. 20% of poorest population owns less than 5% of national income, while 20% of the richest owns more than 50% of national income."

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/35.php?id=18088

[Prakanong]

Some of the poor who are entitled to free medication.

From the MFA website:

"while Thailand is not a poor country, we are a developing country. The gap in income disparity and distribution of wealth remains wide. 20% of poorest population owns less than 5% of national income, while 20% of the richest owns more than 50% of national income."

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/35.php?id=18088

They forgot to add, "And we shit on our own"

[ThaiGoon]

Cheers Jai Dee. I hope people who have spent a lot of time in this thread condemning the Thai gov't will take a small fraction of their time reading that paper.

One half of one percent royalty to the patent holder? That is spitting in the face of those who invested the time and money to develop new drugs. Suppose the US scientist who spliced jasmine rice genes with a variety that can be easily grown in the US decided to make his product commercially available, do you think Thailand would be staisfied with a royalty of 1/2 of 1% for the seed sold? The government and the farmers organizations here accused the scientist of stealing from Thailand. The government and the farmers here attacked the scientist and the farmers held protest rallies outside the US Embassy including a traditional cursing ceremony. The scientist said he would not make the seed available on the world market The scientist to my knowledge he never did.

When the boot is on the other foot Thailand acts much differently. The MOH has acquired the drugs acquired by breeching the patent saying they would be used to treat the poor. But by the MOH's own admission far more than the poor will have access to drugs acquired by breeching the patent. In fact, according to the MOH documant only 2% of Thais are not covered by the program the program. Middle class Thais and apparently most upper class Thais fall under the free drugs program. Those groups could afford to pay some if not all of the cost. To show good faith, Thailand could make a more reasonable royalty payment for the drugs but as we have seen that isn't likely to happen.

From the report:

"All of the 62 million Thais who are covered by one of the three above-mentioned national

public health insurance schemes are entitled to full access of all medicines in the essential

drugs list, including almost 900 items of drugs, many of them patented"

The reports suggests that only 2% of Thailand's population is covered by private insurance.

CMAmerican, I've seen this comparison to rice patents has been brought up time and time again, and it seems that you fail to realize that ther are millions of rice farmers in Thailand whose lives pretty much depend only on their farming. Rice farming is the only source of income for these poor farmers. It's not the same as pharma companies who had $1.1 billion to spend for lobbying. Less income for three drugs are not gonna put their lives or their businesses in jeopardy.

[Prakanong]

Cheers Jai Dee. I hope people who have spent a lot of time in this thread condemning the Thai gov't will take a small fraction of their time reading that paper.

One half of one percent royalty to the patent holder? That is spitting in the face of those who invested the time and money to develop new drugs. Suppose the US scientist who spliced jasmine rice genes with a variety that can be easily grown in the US decided to make his product commercially available, do you think Thailand would be staisfied with a royalty of 1/2 of 1% for the seed sold? The government and the farmers organizations here accused the scientist of stealing from Thailand. The government and the farmers here attacked the scientist and the farmers held protest rallies outside the US Embassy including a traditional cursing ceremony. The scientist said he would not make the seed available on the world market The scientist to my knowledge he never did.

When the boot is on the other foot Thailand acts much differently. The MOH has acquired the drugs acquired by breeching the patent saying they would be used to treat the poor. But by the MOH's own admission far more than the poor will have access to drugs acquired by breeching the patent. In fact, according to the MOH documant only 2% of Thais are not covered by the program the program. Middle class Thais and apparently most upper class Thais fall under the free drugs program. Those groups could afford to pay some if not all of the cost. To show good faith, Thailand could make a more reasonable royalty payment for the drugs but as we have seen that isn't likely to happen.

From the report:

"All of the 62 million Thais who are covered by one of the three above-mentioned national

public health insurance schemes are entitled to full access of all medicines in the essential

drugs list, including almost 900 items of drugs, many of them patented"

The reports suggests that only 2% of Thailand's population is covered by private insurance.

CMAmerican, I've seen this comparison to rice patents has been brought up time and time again, and it seems that you fail to realize that ther are millions of rice farmers in Thailand whose lives pretty much depend only on their farming. Rice farming is the only source of income for these poor farmers. It's not the same as pharma companies who had $1.1 billion to spend for lobbying. Less income for three drugs are not gonna put their lives or their businesses in jeopardy.

Stealing 1 baht or 1 million - the principles are the same

Belly up to the bar and pay your way.

[ThaiGoon]

Stealing 1 baht or 1 million - the principles are the same

Belly up to the bar and pay your way.

Told you to try reading.

I know you have vested interest in this (as you are working for one of pharma companies)...but at leat try to read what's been posted before (especially the ones by Jai Dee.)

Edited May 12, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[Prakanong]

Stealing 1 baht or 1 million - the principles are the same

Belly up to the bar and pay your way.

Told you to try reading.

I do work for big pharma and hope i have made that clear so people know my stance. However I this situation with Thailand will not affect my future salary or bonus so its not a fiscal matter for me. I am happy to work for a pharma that probably has the best CSR record and in a division that sells a lot of product at no profit.

Done my reading mate

Put any spin on it you like - the HIV drugs had a case - the adding on of the heart drug has no precedent - like in many area's Thailand takes what is not rightfully their's and hides behind pseudo-altruistic motives beleiving its their right.

This time it being played out on a world stage rather than some local backyard and they are looking like the tin pot dictators they really are.

Edited May 12, 2007 by Prakanong

[nick2k]

Cheers Jai Dee. I hope people who have spent a lot of time in this thread condemning the Thai gov't will take a small fraction of their time reading that paper.

One half of one percent royalty to the patent holder? That is spitting in the face of those who invested the time and money to develop new drugs. Suppose the US scientist who spliced jasmine rice genes with a variety that can be easily grown in the US decided to make his product commercially available, do you think Thailand would be staisfied with a royalty of 1/2 of 1% for the seed sold? The government and the farmers organizations here accused the scientist of stealing from Thailand. The government and the farmers here attacked the scientist and the farmers held protest rallies outside the US Embassy including a traditional cursing ceremony. The scientist said he would not make the seed available on the world market The scientist to my knowledge he never did.

When the boot is on the other foot Thailand acts much differently. The MOH has acquired the drugs acquired by breeching the patent saying they would be used to treat the poor. But by the MOH's own admission far more than the poor will have access to drugs acquired by breeching the patent. In fact, according to the MOH documant only 2% of Thais are not covered by the program the program. Middle class Thais and apparently most upper class Thais fall under the free drugs program. Those groups could afford to pay some if not all of the cost. To show good faith, Thailand could make a more reasonable royalty payment for the drugs but as we have seen that isn't likely to happen.

From the report:

"All of the 62 million Thais who are covered by one of the three above-mentioned national

public health insurance schemes are entitled to full access of all medicines in the essential

drugs list, including almost 900 items of drugs, many of them patented"

The reports suggests that only 2% of Thailand's population is covered by private insurance.

CMAmerican, I've seen this comparison to rice patents has been brought up time and time again, and it seems that you fail to realize that ther are millions of rice farmers in Thailand whose lives pretty much depend only on their farming. Rice farming is the only source of income for these poor farmers. It's not the same as pharma companies who had $1.1 billion to spend for lobbying. Less income for three drugs are not gonna put their lives or their businesses in jeopardy.

why should america be so concerned about your problems when your own people don't give a sh#t?

if the rich people had spent money to educate the average thai to 12 grade, there wouldn't be so many poor people in thailand. you love your slaves so much, you don't want your fellow thai to have a better life.

if you had spent the money like you should have, thailand would be as prosperous as singapore. think about it, singapore only has 4 million people. and thailand has 65 million. so, why is singapore so much richer?

the rich people in thailand don't care about the poor people. simple to see.