TM-30 and residence in finacee's Home

[CarlE]

I will be facing my first 90 report which I plan to do on-line. Will I have a problem with simply reporting my fiancee's private house address, where I do live full-time?  It is a house she owns and is not a rental property.

[Bert got kinky]

 

The TM30 and the 90 day reporting are different items.

The TM30 is to report where you are staying, whereas the 90 day report (TM47) is to state that you have not left the country within the last 90 days.

 

The 90 day reporting can be done fairly easily online but not so the TM30.

While the TM30 can be done online, you (your girlfriend) will have to set up an account first, which can take a couple of weeks while you wait for Immigration to e-mail you the password for the account.

[elviajero]

49 minutes ago, CarlE said:

I will be facing my first 90 report which I plan to do on-line. Will I have a problem with simply reporting my fiancee's private house address, where I do live full-time?  It is a house she owns and is not a rental property.

No problem. It doesn’t matter who owns the property. It’s just a report by you confirming where you are staying,

[elviajero]

38 minutes ago, Bert got kinky said:

 

The TM30 and the 90 day reporting are different items.

The TM30 is to report where you are staying, whereas the 90 day report (TM47) is to state that you have not left the country within the last 90 days.

Thats wrong. 

 

A TM.30 is a report made by the manager/owner/house-master/possessor that you are staying at their property.

 

A TM.47 is a report by you updating your address for the next 90 day period.

 

[Bert got kinky]

3 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Thats wrong. 

 

A TM.30 is a report made by the manager/owner/house-master/possessor that you are staying at their property.

 

A TM.47 is a report by you updating your address for the next 90 day period.

 

 

A TM.30 is a report made by the manager/owner/house-master/possessor that you are staying at their property.

And that is what I loosely said.

 

A TM.47 is a report by you updating your address for the next 90 day period.

No, the TM.47 is titled as 'Form for alien staying longer than 90 days'.

The only mention of the address on the form states 'I have been staying in Thailand for 90 days and my present address is.....

It does not ask where you were stopping for the whole 90 days nor does it ask where you will be stopping at for the next 90 days.

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Bert got kinky

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Bert got kinky said:

A TM.47 is a report by you updating your address for the next 90 day period.

No, the TM.47 is titled as 'Form for alien staying longer than 90 days'.

The only mention of the address on the form states 'I have been staying in Thailand for 90 days and my present address is.....

It does not ask where you were stopping for the whole 90 days nor does it ask where you will be stopping at for the next 90 days.

It doesn't matter what the form is titled. The only reason for '90 day reports' is to comply with immigration law. The law requires that we update our address every 90 days, because we are staying longer than 90 days.

Section 37 

5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. Where there is an Immigration Office , the alien may notify a competent Immigration Official of that office.

 

If you look at the bottom of the TM.47 it clearly states;

"PLEASE NOTIFY YOUR ADDRESS AGAIN ON"

 

And the online reporting website spells it out very clearly;

"Apply for Notification of residence when staying in the Kingdom over 90 days."

 

"According to The Immigration Act,B.E.2522,the foreigner who has received a temporary stay permit and stayed in the Kingdom of Thailand over 90 days must notify his residence to immigration officer every 90 days."

 

1 hour ago, Bert got kinky said:

It does not ask where you were stopping for the whole 90 days nor does it ask where you will be stopping at for the next 90 days.

Whatever address you give as your current address is assumed to be your address for the next 90 days. If you change that address during the 90 days you are supposed to report that change using TM.28.

Edited July 6, 2019 by elviajero

[Bert got kinky]

20 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It doesn't matter what the form is titled. The only reason for '90 day reports' is to comply with immigration law. The law requires that we update our address every 90 days, because we are staying longer than 90 days.

Section 37 

5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. Where there is an Immigration Office , the alien may notify a competent Immigration Official of that office.

 

If you look at the bottom of the TM.47 it clearly states;

"PLEASE NOTIFY YOUR ADDRESS AGAIN ON"

 

And the online reporting website spells it out very clearly;

"Apply for Notification of residence when staying in the Kingdom over 90 days."

 

"According to The Immigration Act,B.E.2522,the foreigner who has received a temporary stay permit and stayed in the Kingdom of Thailand over 90 days must notify his residence to immigration officer every 90 days."

 

Whatever address you give as your current address is assumed to be your address for the next 90 days. If you change that address during the 90 days you are supposed to report that change using TM.28.

"According to The Immigration Act,B.E.2522,the foreigner who has received a temporary stay permit and stayed in the Kingdom of Thailand over 90 days must notify his residence to immigration officer every 90 days."

 

Whatever address you give as your current address is assumed to be your address for the next 90 days. If you change that address during the 90 days you are supposed to report that change using TM.28.

 

So you are saying that if I stay in a hotel for a few days  my 90 day report would be invalid, as I have not stopped at the address for the time that the report covers.

That would mean that when I returned to my home I would then have to re file a new 90 day report (despite the fact that I had not left the kingdom in the 90 days), a TM.28 & a TM.30.

 

The guy came on here asking for advice, your personal views and beliefs on how the Immigration forms are interpreted are wrong.

I know you are probably trying to help but it is not helpful if the give information that you give is wrong.

 

[elviajero]

16 minutes ago, Bert got kinky said:

"According to The Immigration Act,B.E.2522,the foreigner who has received a temporary stay permit and stayed in the Kingdom of Thailand over 90 days must notify his residence to immigration officer every 90 days."

 

Whatever address you give as your current address is assumed to be your address for the next 90 days. If you change that address during the 90 days you are supposed to report that change using TM.28.

 

So you are saying that if I stay in a hotel for a few days  my 90 day report would be invalid, as I have not stopped at the address for the time that the report covers.

That would mean that when I returned to my home I would then have to re file a new 90 day report (despite the fact that I had not left the kingdom in the 90 days), a TM.28 & a TM.30.

No that's not what I'm saying - it wouldn't be invalid.

No, when you return home the person responsible at that address should file a new TM.30. And you report your address again 90 days after the last report using the TM.47.

 

90 day, TM.47, reporting and TM.30 reporting are entirely different.

 

16 minutes ago, Bert got kinky said:

The guy came on here asking for advice, your personal views and beliefs on how the Immigration forms are interpreted are wrong.

I've given the facts. It is you giving wrong personal views and interpretation.

 

16 minutes ago, Bert got kinky said:

I know you are probably trying to help but it is not helpful if the give information that you give is wrong.

Back at you. I am simply correcting your wrong information - with facts.

[rvaviator]

Back at you. I am simply correcting your wrong information - with facts.

Could you please provide the web link that would allow my GF to register her address for TM30 registration.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Peterw42]

5 minutes ago, rvaviator said:

Could you please provide the web link that would allow my GF to register her address for TM30 registration.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, rvaviator said:

Could you please provide the web link that would allow my GF to register her address for TM30 registration.

She can register for online reporting here/ https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

[Bert got kinky]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

No that's not what I'm saying - it wouldn't be invalid.

No, when you return home the person responsible at that address should file a new TM.30. And you report your address again 90 days after the last report using the TM.47.

 

90 day, TM.47, reporting and TM.30 reporting are entirely different.

 

I've given the facts. It is you giving wrong personal views and interpretation.

 

Back at you. I am simply correcting your wrong information - with facts.

 

OK, I don't agree with you, you don't agree with me.

It seems to me that this is all down to the wording and it's not really worth getting into an argument about.

Let's just agree to disagree and let the thread move on.

 

[elviajero]

29 minutes ago, Bert got kinky said:

OK, I don't agree with you, you don't agree with me.

It seems to me that this is all down to the wording and it's not really worth getting into an argument about.

Let's just agree to disagree and let the thread move on.

You can’t disagree with fact, but I’ll agree that you do if it helps you move on.

[jackdd]

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

Whatever address you give as your current address is assumed to be your address for the next 90 days. If you change that address during the 90 days you are supposed to report that change using TM.28. 

The law does not confirm what you say, so what you say is most likely wrong.

 

3 hours ago, Bert got kinky said:

The guy came on here asking for advice, your personal views and beliefs on how the Immigration forms are interpreted are wrong. 

He does the same in other topics ????

[rvaviator]

She can register for online reporting here/ https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

Thanks Ubonjoe and Peter

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

Whatever address you give as your current address is assumed to be your address for the next 90 days. If you change that address during the 90 days you are supposed to report that change using TM.28. 

The law does not confirm what you say, so what you say is most likely wrong.

OMG! The law says you must update your address every 90 days, and a separate law says to must inform report any change to that address. How can what I’ve written be wrong!

[jackdd]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

OMG! The law says you must update your address every 90 days, and a separate law says to must inform report any change to that address. How can what I’ve written be wrong!

Reason 1:

The law does not say "you must update your address every 90 days"

The law says: You have to inform the immigration officer of the place where you stay, if staying longer than 90 days in Thailand.

So if you happen to stay at a hotel when the 90 day report is due then you report this address, because this is where you stay.

 

Reason 2:

Thai law does not have a law which says "must inform report any change to that address" for people who entered Thailand legally.

This only exists for people who entered Thailand illegally.

 

Your assumption, based on two laws of which one was translated wrong by you, and another one that just doesn't exist (for people who entered legally), is just wrong.

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by jackdd

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

Reason 1:

The law does not say "you must update your address every 90 days"

The law says: You have to inform the immigration officer of the place where you stay, if staying longer than 90 days in Thailand.

5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. 

 

Call me old fashioned, but you cant read.

 

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

So if you happen to stay at a hotel when the 90 day report is due then you report this address, because this is where you stay.

And?

 

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

Reason 2:

Thai law does not have a law which says "must inform report any change to that address" for people who entered Thailand legally.

Yes it does!

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following

2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

 

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

This only exists for people who entered Thailand illegally.

Please show me thaw law that requires illegal immigrants to report their address! LOL! Section 37 is law for people that have been given permission to stay.

 

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

Your assumption, based on two laws of which one was translated wrong by you, and another one that just doesn't exist (for people who entered legally), is just wrong.

Utter nonsense. And I am not translating anything, I am quoting the official translation issued in English by immigration.

 

It's very, very simple. Every 90 days we update our address (S37.5) and that is assumed as our address unless we change change it (S37.2) 

[tgeezer]

Who knows if you will have a problem? Immigration has your address as the one you put on your landing card If that isn’t your girlfriend’s house you should have told them. If you did not then the 90 day report will correct that discrepancy.  If they are out to get you it is not likely to be at the 90 day report stage. 

Then there is the TM 30 which everyone is excited about; if your girlfriend is picked up for that at some stage there will be a fine. My advise is to wait and see what happens. There is no stigma to not doing it, Immigration are satisfied with the income. 

[jackdd]

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

Yes it does!

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following

2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

You have to read every word of a sentence. If you "cannot stay" at the place you have to report. So in case you just don't want to stay at the place there is no need to report. Which means, other than you think, this section does not mean "must inform report any change to that address".

 

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

Please show me thaw law that requires illegal immigrants to report their address! LOL! Section 37 is law for people that have been given permission to stay. 

I recommend reading the second last paragraph of section 37 (as mentioned before, you have to read everything)

"The provision of (3) and (4) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as prescribed by the Director General."

If you now read Section 34, you see that this is a list of reasons for which an alien may enter Thailand. This means if somebody entered Thailand for any other reason the person entered Thailand illegally.

Section 37 (3) says an alien has to report if staying in another province more than 24 hours, this is the closest to your assumed law "must inform report any change to that address". But as we can see from the second last paragraph, this sub section does not apply for people who entered Thailand legally.

So if you had written "people who entered Thailand illegally have to report any change to that address", i would have agreed, but for people who entered legally there is no such requirement.

[markeewan]

Basically the Thai government wants to know where foreigners are at all times, and yet there are people that want to read whatever they want into each word of the Act and reach an incorrect conclusion.

 

Some people go through life pushing doors that say, "Pull" and wonder why sometimes they have problems.

 

[elviajero]

7 hours ago, jackdd said:

13 hours ago, elviajero said:

Yes it does!

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following

2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

You have to read every word of a sentence. If you "cannot stay" at the place you have to report. So in case you just don't want to stay at the place there is no need to report. Which means, other than you think, this section does not mean "must inform report any change to that address".

Wrong again. You are taking a bad translation literally. It simply means that if you change your residence, you must report the new address within 24 hours. A fact proven by immigration procedure over decades.

 

The point of address reporting is to keep a track on the whereabouts of all foreigners. It would be ridiculous to exclude people that choose to move and only track those that have to move!

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2019 by elviajero

[elviajero]

7 hours ago, jackdd said:

13 hours ago, elviajero said:

Please show me thaw law that requires illegal immigrants to report their address! LOL! Section 37 is law for people that have been given permission to stay. 

I recommend reading the second last paragraph of section 37 (as mentioned before, you have to read everything)

"The provision of (3) and (4) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as prescribed by the Director General."

If you now read Section 34, you see that this is a list of reasons for which an alien may enter Thailand. This means if somebody entered Thailand for any other reason the person entered Thailand illegally.

Section 37 (3) says an alien has to report if staying in another province more than 24 hours, this is the closest to your assumed law "must inform report any change to that address". But as we can see from the second last paragraph, this sub section does not apply for people who entered Thailand legally.

So if you had written "people who entered Thailand illegally have to report any change to that address", i would have agreed, but for people who entered legally there is no such requirement.

Where does it say anything about illegal entry!

 

The law is simply saying that people that have been given permission to stay for reasons listed in section 34 can be exempt from 37. 3&4 under conditions set by the Director General. Conditions are clearly in place which is why 37. 3&4 are not enforced. Immigration procedure proves that fact.

[jackdd]

19 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Wrong again. You are taking a bad translation literally. It simply means that if you change your residence, you must report the new address within 24 hours. A fact proven by immigration procedure over decades. 

The translation is correct, in Thai it says: ไม่สามารถพักอาศัย

สามารถ = can (could be replaced with ได้, but สามารถ is more formal)

If they had simply not written สามารถ the sentence would mean what you think it means.

But they specifically wrote สามารถ, so they made quite clear that they wanted this only if the foreigner can not stay at the place as indicated.

Does it make sense? Not really, but that's what the law says.

 

Actually i think that they made a mistake in the second last paragraph when they wrote the law.

Probably the second last paragraph should not say "The provision of (3) and (4) shall not apply [...]" but that it should say "The provision of (2), (3) and (4) shall not apply [...]".

Because then people who entered Thailand illegally would have to report every move in Thailand, but people who entered legally would not have to do it.

 

4 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Where does it say anything about illegal entry! 

It doesn't say illegal, but they give a list of reasons for which a foreigner may enter Thailand. If he enters for any other reason than the legal reasons, then how would you call it? I call it illegal.

Edited July 7, 2019 by jackdd

[elviajero]

4 minutes ago, jackdd said:

23 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Wrong again. You are taking a bad translation literally. It simply means that if you change your residence, you must report the new address within 24 hours. A fact proven by immigration procedure over decades. 

The translation is correct, in Thai it says: ไม่สามารถพักอาศัย

สามารถ = can (could be replaced with ได้, but สามารถ is more formal)

If they had simply not written สามารถ the sentence would mean what you think it means.

But they specifically wrote สามารถ, so they made quite clear that they wanted this only if the foreigner can not stay at the place as indicated.

Does it make sense? Not really, but that's what the law says.

 

Actually i think that they made a mistake in the second last paragraph when they wrote the law.

Probably the second last paragraph should not say "The provision of (3) and (4) shall not apply [...]" but that it should say "The provision of (2), (3) and (4) shall not apply [...]".

Because then people who entered Thailand illegally would have to report every move in Thailand, but people who entered legally would not have to do it.

"I think they made a mistake". That is your problem, you think too much. And you are wrong.

 

 

[elviajero]

8 minutes ago, jackdd said:

11 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Where does it say anything about illegal entry! 

It doesn't say illegal, but they give a list of reasons for which a foreigner may enter Thailand. If he enters for any other reason than the legal reasons, then how would you call it? I call it illegal.

Wrong again, it's nothing to do with illegal entry. As you admit it doesn't say illegal. 

 

The law, via the Director General, is exempting those given permission to stay for reasons listed in section 34 from complying with 37. 3&4. It's as simple as that.

[jackdd]

20 minutes ago, elviajero said:

"I think they made a mistake". That is your problem, you think too much. And you are wrong.

Of course, i might be wrong about this, it's just speculation.

But you are wrong about Section 37.2, because this does explicitly say "cannot", so the foreigner only has to report if he "cannot" stay at the place, not if he just doesn't want to ????

 

Other than you I indicate if something is just a thought of me, or if it's a fact. You present everything as if it's a fact, even if it's just your personal opinion, which is wrong in this case.

 

14 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Wrong again, it's nothing to do with illegal entry. As you admit it doesn't say illegal. 

You didn't answer my question. Section 34 gives a list of reasons for which a foreigner may legally enter Thailand. If he enters for any other reason, i call it illegal. How do you call it?

Edited July 7, 2019 by jackdd

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, jackdd said:

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

"I think they made a mistake". That is your problem, you think too much. And you are wrong.

Of course, i might be wrong about this, it's just speculation.

But you are wrong about Section 37.2, because this does explicitly say "cannot", so the foreigner only has to report if he "cannot" stay at the place, not if he just doesn't want to ????

You are wrong, and I've explained why. It is just badly worded. 

 

3 hours ago, jackdd said:

Other than you I indicate if something is just a thought of me, or if it's a fact. You present everything as if it's a fact, even if it's just your personal opinion, which is wrong in this case.

No, I only present facts as facts. You didn't once mention that you were offering thoughts or opinion until trying to prove your argument by claiming the people writing the immigration act made a mistake.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, jackdd said:

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

Wrong again, it's nothing to do with illegal entry. As you admit it doesn't say illegal. 

You didn't answer my question. Section 34 gives a list of reasons for which a foreigner may legally enter Thailand. If he enters for any other reason, i call it illegal. How do you call it?

No it doesn't. It gives a list of specific reasons (activities) permission to stay can be granted.

 

Only someone entering without being given permission is illegal.

Anyone that has been given permission to enter for any reason listed in section 34 is exempt from section 37. 3&4 reporting. Those given permission to enter for other reasons are not exempt. An example could be someone entering for Asylum; its a legal entry, but not on the list!

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with illegal entries. Nothing!

 

 

Edited July 7, 2019 by elviajero

[jackdd]

20 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Someone entering without being given permission is illegal. An example would be someone entering for Asylum; its a legal entry but not on the list!

So you think somebody can show up at a Thai border, tell the IOs he is seeking asylum, and they will let him in? How many days will he get stamped in?

 

26 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You are wrong, and I've explained why. It is just badly worded. 

Well, fact is it says "cannot", so you might call it badly worded or whatever, but it's the law, and your interpretation is wrong, doesn't matter how often you claim that you are right.

 

What do you think is more likely?

1) It's badly worded because the Thai people who wrote the Thai law can't write a proper sentence in Thai (as explained before, they specifically added "can" in the sentence, they could have just skipped this word and the sentence would say what you think it says)

2) They intended to write "cannot"

 

I think option 2) is "slightly" more probable than 1)

Edited July 7, 2019 by jackdd