Bt425 minimum wage included in new govt policy

[pornprong]

39 minutes ago, Brigand said:

Minimum wage increases like this are not the panacea many think they are. Retailers will just see it as an excuse to raise prices and in reality the money just ends up in the pockets of greedy corporations. If workers even get the raise then it'll help only for a short time (like a few weeks or month) before prices start edging up. People think that everything will stay the same other than they have an extra 42% money each day ... dream on as it's probably already being worked out how it can be relieved from these workers by slight-of-hand. It will only really benefit those who know how to be thrifty and save ... which are few at that end of the work force.

So by your brilliant logic, they should lower minimum wages and everything will come up roses.

Funny how corporate and top end tax cuts always sail through without question, but policies that help the poor - raising minimum wage, universal healthcare, these things nobody can afford.

[CLS]

Minimum wage in Vietnam is a lot higher than here at VND 4,180,000 (US$ 180)
They seem to be doing fine- With Thailand effects on exports have little to do with wages and more to do with a lack of quality

You compare apples with oranges.
VN has only a third of Thailand‘s GDP per capita.

US$ 180 should be per month. Would be here more than US$ 400.


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[Brigand]

20 minutes ago, pornprong said:

So by your brilliant logic, they should lower minimum wages and everything will come up roses.

 

Erm no ... that's not what I said and actually didn't offer any solution or answer to anything, merely an observational statement, perhaps slightly negative, but a mere statement none the less. Don't read into things so far and generate such negative waves ... try just reading what is there and taking it for what it actually is rather than twisting it to satisfy something going off in your head. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Brigand

[Cadbury]

24 minutes ago, luk AJ said:

Most of the car factories will move to Vietnam. It is economical suicide to increase daily wages to 425 Thb. Vietnam will most probably also offer better tax conditions.
The GDP of Thailand is already the lowest in the region, combined with a strong baht, this will probably result in a serious economic meltdown.

Talking of GDP growth the The Economic Intelligence Center (EIC), Siam Commercial Bank's research unit only yesterday downgraded it's GDP growth prediction to 3.1%.

So it has steadily slid down from an original and optimistic 4.1% to an EIC prediction of 3.1% and it could end up being even lower than that.

 

[ericthai]

10 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

If they do this they are killing the export business. Easier to uplift and go to another supplier in Vietnam for many products, or plainly cancel orders because price increases will not be accepted by retail buyers. It also raised the domestic retail prices as well so in general hurts the inner economy. Too many wage increase in the last 5 years already.

exactly, last time the textile industry took a hit and could not longer compete with Cambodia.

[robblok]

17 hours ago, pornprong said:

You really do have comprehension issues don't you?

 

Not a single one of my posts today indicates whether or not I support or oppose raising the minimum wage either now on back when Yingluck was PM.

 

No wonder Suthep and Prayuth have so easily fooled you into advocating their nonsense for so many years.

 

What I have questioned is why the business community has had such a vastly different reaction this time whilst Prayuth is PM as opposed to when they got so hysterical when Yingluck introduced a very similar policy.

 

For the record, I support raising the minimum wage in Thailand, both then and now.

How does being a sweatshop for foreign companies raise the living standards of the Thai masses?

 

It says a lot about you that, given Thailand is the MOST unequal country on the planet, you oppose the one policy that will do the most to redress the situation.

Now I am clear on your lack of understanding of economics. Thanks this has nothing to do with redistributing wealth. If you really think that the owners are going to pay more an NOT raise the price of their products then your indeed not smart. We seen it go wrong with YL and we will see it go wrong again. 

 

IF it was indeed so that the business owners took the hit and not pass it through then yes it would work however during YL we seen that this was just not the case and it won't be the case now it will only increase inflation and drive up cost.

 

It says a lot about you that you don't learn from history.

 

Your point about business leaders is well made though the difference is night and day.

[robblok]

17 hours ago, pornprong said:

So by your brilliant logic, they should lower minimum wages and everything will come up roses.

Funny how corporate and top end tax cuts always sail through without question, but policies that help the poor - raising minimum wage, universal healthcare, these things nobody can afford.

Because it just does not work the way you envision and if you were here during the YL time you would have seen it. Everything started to cost more money almost over night everyone wanted more result increased prices of many things. 

 

The bosses just don't take a cut and suffer the consequences they pass it on to consumers. The only thing that works is increasing productivity to increase salary. Socialists have never been good economist that why the soviet union collapsed. Its also often left governments that leave countries in debt.

 

Corporate tax should be cut ONLY for new companies that relocate to Thailand and only for a few years that way you bring in new investments. Like you said just cutting coorporate tax for everyone does not work. 

[userabcd]

Watch prices of everything go up as these costs are passed onto the customers.

[pornprong]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

Now I am clear on your lack of understanding of economics. Thanks this has nothing to do with redistributing wealth. If you really think that the owners are going to pay more an NOT raise the price of their products then your indeed not smart. We seen it go wrong with YL and we will see it go wrong again. 

 

IF it was indeed so that the business owners took the hit and not pass it through then yes it would work however during YL we seen that this was just not the case and it won't be the case now it will only increase inflation and drive up cost.

 

It says a lot about you that you don't learn from history.

 

Your point about business leaders is well made though the difference is night and day.

I don't think you're clear on anything.

 

How does increasing the minimum wage redistribute income? An increase in the wage results in a decrease in the payments to managers and profits for the establishment. That’s redistribution. We can argue that this might not happen because of productivity increases by the worker, but that merely means that the productivity increases (or a portion thereof) that might have gone to the employer instead go to the employee — hence redistribution from owners to workers. Redistribution also can occur between worker and customer. If a restaurant increases prices due to an increase in the minimum wage, in an attempt to avoid a decrease in profits, then the customers pay more. These customers have the disposable income to patronize restaurants. We can make the assumption that the customers have greater incomes than the people who wait on them. Thus, an increase is again redistributive, with the increase coming from increased prices paid by customers.

 

http://www.opportunityinstitute.org/blog/post/minimum-wage-increases-the-justice-of-redistribution/

 

Off all the ridiculousness I have read on this forum over the years, of all the silliness that coups are good because they end corruption, fascism is acceptable because it brings peace and Thaksin is the devil....it all pales to insignificance when compared to the obvious prank claim that you are an actual accountant with an understanding of economics.

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, pornprong said:

I don't think you're clear on anything.

 

How does increasing the minimum wage redistribute income? An increase in the wage results in a decrease in the payments to managers and profits for the establishment. That’s redistribution. We can argue that this might not happen because of productivity increases by the worker, but that merely means that the productivity increases (or a portion thereof) that might have gone to the employer instead go to the employee — hence redistribution from owners to workers. Redistribution also can occur between worker and customer. If a restaurant increases prices due to an increase in the minimum wage, in an attempt to avoid a decrease in profits, then the customers pay more. These customers have the disposable income to patronize restaurants. We can make the assumption that the customers have greater incomes than the people who wait on them. Thus, an increase is again redistributive, with the increase coming from increased prices paid by customers.

 

http://www.opportunityinstitute.org/blog/post/minimum-wage-increases-the-justice-of-redistribution/

 

Off all the ridiculousness I have read on this forum over the years, of all the silliness that coups are good because they end corruption, fascism is acceptable because it brings peace and Thaksin is the devil....it all pales to insignificance when compared to the obvious prank claim that you are an actual accountant with an understanding of economics.

You forget its those same customers who got the increase that are paying the increased prices leaving them net with nothing just like during YL her try. Sorry just does not work the way. Money does not get created from nothing.  You clearly have no economic sense.

 

It would work in an other country where wages are better distributed but not here where its the low wage people who are also the people buying in the shops. It did not work with YL (or did you see poverty go down a lot) All I saw was prices go up more and net nobody won.

[pornprong]

19 minutes ago, robblok said:

Because it just does not work the way you envision and if you were here during the YL time you would have seen it. Everything started to cost more money almost over night everyone wanted more result increased prices of many things. 

 

The bosses just don't take a cut and suffer the consequences they pass it on to consumers. The only thing that works is increasing productivity to increase salary. Socialists have never been good economist that why the soviet union collapsed. Its also often left governments that leave countries in debt.

 

Corporate tax should be cut ONLY for new companies that relocate to Thailand and only for a few years that way you bring in new investments. Like you said just cutting coorporate tax for everyone does not work. 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1087919993008910336.html

 

https://psmag.com/economics/boooo-sit-down-pundit-customer-service-is-way-harder-than-your-job

 

                   

 

[pornprong]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

You forget its those same customers who got the increase that are paying the increased prices leaving them net with nothing just like during YL her try. Sorry just does not work the way. Money does not get created from nothing.  You clearly have no economic sense.

 

It would work in an other country where wages are better distributed but not here where its the low wage people who are also the people buying in the shops. It did not work with YL (or did you see poverty go down a lot) All I saw was prices go up more and net nobody won.

Of course money gets created from nothing

 

 

I feel like I should start charging you a tuition fee.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, pornprong said:

Of course money gets created from nothing

 

 

I feel like I should start charging you a tuition fee.

Man your probably some lowly teacher or something all you can do is add some pictures but you can't explain anything else. 

 

Taking comments out of context is not a good idea, everyone knows that money is indeed created that way. I was talking about this case how it wont work. 

 

Your constantly comparing countries with a far more evenly distributed wealth system with Thailand. In countries like that raising the wage would help. Though it also has a carry through effect. Here it just wont because the group with low wages is too high.

 

Its not about being able to post some stuff here its about understanding things. You certainly never shown you can do that.

[pornprong]

24 minutes ago, robblok said:

Man your probably some lowly teacher or something all you can do is add some pictures but you can't explain anything else. 

 

Taking comments out of context is not a good idea, everyone knows that money is indeed created that way. I was talking about this case how it wont work. 

 

Your constantly comparing countries with a far more evenly distributed wealth system with Thailand. In countries like that raising the wage would help. Though it also has a carry through effect. Here it just wont because the group with low wages is too high.

 

Its not about being able to post some stuff here its about understanding things. You certainly never shown you can do that.

1. Any good pedagogue knows that you have to teach to the level of your students - in this particular instance, with this particular student, pictures are going to be a lot more effective than words.

 

2. Out of context? Your exact words were "money does not get created from nothing". 

 

3. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/02/14/this-graph-is-the-best-argument-for-raising-the-minimum-wage/?utm_term=.bbd5cc1360ca

 

https://truthout.org/articles/minimum-wage-hikes-do-not-cause-inflation/

 

4. You, so far, have failed to understand that raising the minimum wages is a method of wealth distribution, how money is created and shown ignorance regarding Thailand's inflation rate during Yingluck's Prime Ministership. What you appear to have is a superficial understanding on subjects and an unwillingness to question any information that doesn't conform with you views. It is these characteristics that have turned you into a junta stage on these forum pages and made you look ridiculous time and time again when your dribble has been exposed as being counter to logic and facts.

 

BTW - I am not a teacher and if I ever find myself in need a of a career change, I'll be heading straight for the accountancy game as it appears it to be a profession that doesn't require too much in the way of economic knowledge, reasoning, logic or common sense.

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by pornprong

[essox essox]

20 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

180USD is a lot less then the minimum wage in Thailand. 

what is the 180 usd....per week....per month....or per year......???

[BestB]

Excellent idea and perfect timing , just as exports and tourism are down , baht is up they decided to increase the minimum wage to increase the prices even more 

 

Great thinking ????

[LivinLOS]

23 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Good luck making that a reality, I know many high street shops that will be letting staff go as they will refuse to pay that sum. 

I am constantly amazed by the rate being paid for truly terrible thai construction workers.. 

 

Case in point, 2 elderly members of my wifes family.. woman early 60s, not especially fit or strong, man younger (late 40s at a guess) but in terrible state, swollen legs, gout, weak as a kitten, could barely pick up a 25kg rice sack while I could grab one in each hand. Neither can drive, the woman cant even ride a bike. The man is borderline retarded, cannot read or write, cannot do basic addition and subtraction, etc etc.. The pair of them are functionally useless for doing any work more strenuous than watering the plants.. 

They travel to construction sites, often hua hin, sometimes central lop buri / ayutthaya etc.. The package they currently get paid is 15k per person, working 6 days, with tin shed and rice meals provided.. 30k the pair..  

Blew my mind.. 

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, essox essox said:

what is the 180 usd....per week....per month....or per year......???

month

[rickudon]

12 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

I am constantly amazed by the rate being paid for truly terrible thai construction workers.. 

 

Case in point, 2 elderly members of my wifes family.. woman early 60s, not especially fit or strong, man younger (late 40s at a guess) but in terrible state, swollen legs, gout, weak as a kitten, could barely pick up a 25kg rice sack while I could grab one in each hand. Neither can drive, the woman cant even ride a bike. The man is borderline retarded, cannot read or write, cannot do basic addition and subtraction, etc etc.. The pair of them are functionally useless for doing any work more strenuous than watering the plants.. 

They travel to construction sites, often hua hin, sometimes central lop buri / ayutthaya etc.. The package they currently get paid is 15k per person, working 6 days, with tin shed and rice meals provided.. 30k the pair..  

Blew my mind.. 

Hard to believe.....  The last 2 major renovations done on our house the workers were on 500 baht a day. Maybe it was 15,000 baht a month, not for 6 days.

Edited July 11, 2019 by rickudon
more comment

[the guest]

Biggest mistake Thailand ever made was allowing the banks to lend out to their citizens indiscriminately. A free-fo-all payout for anyone that asks for credit. So now their citizens have become slaves to their new paymasters, and instead of living within their means, they have demanded a bigger wage to support their growing debts. In turn, this has resulted in inflation increasing and the country becoming more expensive and less competitive.

 

No doubt those higher up in the food chain will have their sticky fingers in the Automobile and banking pies, will no doubt be the biggest winners. The loosers will be the country as a whole. When Vietnam, Malaysia, Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar have far less operational costs, who as an investor would you put your money in? Industries which have remained in Thailand will no longer invest, and eventually pull-out to more fertile ground.

Edited July 11, 2019 by the guest

[BestB]

9 minutes ago, the guest said:

Biggest mistake Thailand ever made was allowing the banks to lend out to their citizens indiscriminately. A free-fo-all payout for anyone that asks for credit. So now their citizens have become slaves to their new paymasters, and instead of living within their means, they have demanded a bigger wage to support their growing debts. In turn, this has resulted in inflation increasing and the country becoming more expensive and less competitive.

 

No doubt those higher up in the food chain will have their sticky fingers in the Automobile and banking pies, will no doubt be the biggest winners. The loosers will be the country as a whole. When Vietnam, Malaysia, Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar have far less operational costs, who as an investor would you put your money in? Industries which have remained in Thailand will no longer invest, and eventually pull-out to more fertile ground.

Getting a loan or a credit card is not easy for Thai and never has been. anyone earning less than 15 000 per month can not get card or a loan.

 

Where Thai banks i think went wrong is for those who may not qualify is to accept guarantor, who may not be in better financial position than the person borrowing.

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, BestB said:

Getting a loan or a credit card is not easy for Thai and never has been. anyone earning less than 15 000 per month can not get card or a loan.

 

Where Thai banks i think went wrong is for those who may not qualify is to accept guarantor, who may not be in better financial position than the person borrowing.

Getting a loan for a Thai person is quite easy given they work for the government, teach or at a hospital.  If you add up all the people who teach and work for the government you have a lot of Thai folks.  

[ben2talk]

Does this mean Homepro won't be able to pay 6 layabouts to follow me around trying to get credit for any purchase I make?

[nong38]

How about raising the Pension from 600bts a month to 10,000bts a month, just cancel all the military stuff, do something for the people for a change.

[essox essox]

23 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

month

ok thanks NOT much to live on....about 36 english pounds......