UK minister quits before Johnson becomes PM, decries 'dark cloud' of Brexit

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Boris is probably fun telling jokes and behaving silly at a party.

But telling jokes and behaving silly is not what is required of a PM.

I wonder how long the Brits will need to figure that out.

2 hours ago, transam said:

Well it's better than countries where their leaders spout continuous crap eh...

Ah, but that's the whole point, Boris does spout continuous crap, just how far down the reality denial road do you have to travel not to see that. He will be chosen by less that .002% of the population, and it is pretty apparent that a significant majority of the population think he is just a huge embarrassment. For many posters here the issue has turned into "Brexit at any price", if they had to accept Satan as PM in order to achieve their aims they would do so. This obsession has become so all consuming, that nothing else matters. "To hell with the Union, the economy, the evidence, the NHS, our international status, just give us our Brexit" 

Countries all over the world are laughing at us because we really think that we are taking back control, meanwhile Putin and Trump are rubbing their hands with glee. 

[Jonnapat]

At least there appears to be a few Tories left with some common sense.

There also seems to be enough members willing to vote against a no deal Brexit to allow the country to escape from total disaster. 

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, flossie35 said:

A realist should know a. that the referendum was consultative, and decided nothing; and b. that had it decided anything it would have been declared null and void because of the fraud. On top of that all evidence suggests that any sort of brexit would leave us worse off economically and isolated politically. A realist ought to realise these things and stop advocating a national disaster.

1. Cameron repeatedly told us the result would be enacted.

2. He was correct, because after Leave won, Parliament voted to enact article 50 (with a massive majority).

3. We then had a General election where 85% voted for parties who promised to respect the vote.

 

Medium - Long term I believe we will benefit economically. You don't. We'll agree to disagree but FYI I also rubbished the idea of 800,000 job losses and an emergency budget merely on a VOTE to leave (not actually leaving) and I was absolutely correct so my record is good so far. This isn't about x% of GDP in 2020-2021 or 350,000 a week to the NHS, it is about not becoming a state of a federal Europe going forward, regaining our sovereignty and getting out of the failing European model before it's too late.

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Ah, but that's the whole point, Boris does spout continuous crap, just how far down the reality denial road do you have to travel not to see that. He will be chosen by less that .002% of the population, and it is pretty apparent that a significant majority of the population think he is just a huge embarrassment.

I think it would be fair to say that most people who find him embarrassing are remainers who don't want a democratic vote to be carried out.

But whilst we're on the subject what percentage of the public voted for Gordon Brown, or did he have his own coronation. Like it or not that is the way we do things in the UK, there was nothing untoward about it or anything illegal but I suspect you knew that already.

[transam]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Boris is probably fun telling jokes and behaving silly at a party.

But telling jokes and behaving silly is not what is required of a PM.

I wonder how long the Brits will need to figure that out.

Well us Brits here figured you out in very short order......????

[elliss]

 

 gbp,  expected  to  fall, really,   Where will it be  year ending , all the threes.?

 Buy your euros now , says  boris ..

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2019 by elliss

[transam]

24 minutes ago, flossie35 said:

A realist should know a. that the referendum was consultative, and decided nothing; and b. that had it decided anything it would have been declared null and void because of the fraud. On top of that all evidence suggests that any sort of brexit would leave us worse off economically and isolated politically. A realist ought to realise these things and stop advocating a national disaster.

Oh well, another one who has forgotten what Cameron told the nation regarding the vote. Where were you at the time, on yerrr hols....????

[nauseus]

53 minutes ago, flossie35 said:

A realist should know a. that the referendum was consultative, and decided nothing; and b. that had it decided anything it would have been declared null and void because of the fraud. On top of that all evidence suggests that any sort of brexit would leave us worse off economically and isolated politically. A realist ought to realise these things and stop advocating a national disaster.

Really?

[welovesundaysatspace]

40 minutes ago, transam said:

Oh well, another one who has forgotten what Cameron told the nation regarding the vote. Where were you at the time, on yerrr hols....????

Why would anyone care about the false promises an ex-PM told before he buggered off? Would that also apply to, say, a Corbyn-PM?

Edited July 23, 2019 by welovesundaysatspace

[transam]

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Why would anyone care about the false promises an ex-PM told before he buggered off? Would that also apply to, say, a Corbyn-PM?

You were on your hols too.....

 

As for Corbyn the terrorist cuddler, he is a non event, how they keep him up front is beyond me....

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

"Good people" Alan Duncan ????????????. No, bad people leave before they are pushed.

Yes, good people leave when their bosses suck. And, no, it’s only Alan Duncan. Hammond, Gauke, Stewart — didn’t they all announce they won’t serve under a Boris-PM? So let’s see what cabinet he puts together and what it’ll be able to achieve. 

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Yes, good people leave when their bosses suck. And, no, it’s only Alan Duncan. Hammond, Gauke, Stewart — didn’t they all announce they won’t serve under a Boris-PM? So let’s see what cabinet he puts together and what it’ll be able to achieve. 

They wouldn't have served under a Boris government, because they wouldn't have been chosen. Look before you leap.......Geronimo.

[Basil B]

17 hours ago, Loiner said:

Boris will kick the Remainer naysayers out of his cabinet anyway. That’s their dark cloud.
Alan Duncan’s departure will be fairly unnoticeable. Hammond’s will be a bigger deal but a move in the right direction.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

I suspect many who do not agree Johnson will have already resigned so he will have nobody left to kick out.

 

He may have control of the cabinet but not the house or the "other place".

[welovesundaysatspace]

18 minutes ago, vogie said:

They wouldn't have served under a Boris government, because they wouldn't have been chosen. Look before you leap.......Geronimo.

I don’t what would or wouldn’t be. What I can tell you is that good people leave when leadership sucks, and that you can already see good people leaving. Now let’s see whether there will be equally good people following, and what they will be able to achieve. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

22 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Good people do not quit senior positions in the F.O. during times of international crises. 

Oh, they do. Even more so during crises. Good people have opportunities; why would they want to burn their name instead? 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I don’t what would or wouldn’t be. What I can tell you is that good people leave when leadership sucks, and that you can already see good people leaving. Now let’s see whether there will be equally good people following, and what they will be able to achieve. 

Good people don't leave, they stand up for democracy and the wishes of the people. When the going gets tough strong people take action, weak people leave.

[welovesundaysatspace]

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

Good people don't leave, they stand up for democracy and the wishes of the people. When the going gets tough strong people take action, weak people leave.

Don’t wanna burst your bubble but that’s nothing more than the romantic thought of people who are not good. “stand up for democracy” what does that even mean? You really believe anyone would risk their reputation just to earn the applause of sole spoonies? Let’s see if Jacob and his buddies will “stand up for democracy”...

Edited July 23, 2019 by welovesundaysatspace

[stephenterry]

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

Good people don't leave, they stand up for democracy and the wishes of the people. When the going gets tough strong people take action, weak people leave.

I would suggest that's exactly what parliament is doing right now, three years down the line. Strong MPs taking action by protecting democracy and by regarding the interests of Britain, not just pleasing a minority movement of leavers.

 

 

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Don’t wanna burst your bubble but that’s nothing more than the romantic thought of people who are not good. “stand up for democracy” what does that even mean? You really believe anyone would risk their reputation just to earn the applause of sole spoonies? Let’s see if Jacob and his buddies will “stand up for democracy”...

Remainers have always had a problem understanding democracy, democracy doesn't mean throwing teddy out of the cot when you don't get your own way, it means respecting the wishes of the majority.

Jacob has always stood up for democracy, and I have a strong belief he will continue to do so.

[puipuitom]

2 hours ago, stephenterry said:

One bright spot is that Ursula von der Leyen will take up her role as EU president on November 1st, who seems willing enough to agree a deal with the UK, as has been happening now, and before Johnson arrives to mess it all up. 

If… Ursula is ONLY president of the commission. She has to convince all 27 EU government leaders in the EU council, for which… Michel is president. I only read, she might think it over if the UK has a very GOOD reson to ask for AGAIN an postponement of leaving.

[shy coconut]

4 hours ago, transam said:

Well it's better than countries where their leaders spout continuous crap eh...

That would be every leader of every country in the history of world leaders!!

[puipuitom]

2 hours ago, wombat said:

the day democracy died.

Yes, a complete ignorance of 48,11% of the voters, while many out of the 51,88 % "leqvers"gelt later cheated, dubblecrossed, leid and swindled.

 

But.. the British found a solution: just send the HoC home for a couple of weeks... the HoL.., just appointed persons, none elected, have nothing to say.  Thanks, Lord Oliver Cromwell 

Edited July 23, 2019 by puipuitom

[welovesundaysatspace]

16 minutes ago, vogie said:

Remainers have always had a problem understanding democracy, democracy doesn't mean throwing teddy out of the cot when you don't get your own way, it means respecting the wishes of the majority.

The UK is not a referendum democracy, it is a parliamentary representative democracy. Remainers seem to understand that, and they are using that system for their cause. Whereas Brexiteers fail to do so, and seem be the ones throwing tantrums (“wishes of the majority”). If you want democracy by referendum change the system, otherwise don’t complain when you don’t have it your way. 

 

16 minutes ago, vogie said:

Jacob has always stood up for democracy, and I have a strong belief he will continue to do so.

He has been shouting from the back benches and social media accounts. 

[SheungWan]

At least there appears to be a few Tories left with some common sense.
There also seems to be enough members willing to vote against a no deal Brexit to allow the country to escape from total disaster. 

The action will take place in Parliament. The maths are the same.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[vogie]

40 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The UK is not a referendum democracy, it is a parliamentary representative democracy. Remainers seem to understand that, and they are using that system for their cause. Whereas Brexiteers fail to do so, and seem be the ones throwing tantrums (“wishes of the majority”). If you want democracy by referendum change the system, otherwise don’t complain when you don’t have it your way. 

 

He has been shouting from the back benches and social media accounts. 

Hogwash, we all know about parliamentary democracy and we all know that parliament passed a bill to allow the British people to have their say about remaining or leaving, and with the information they received back they decided to go with the wishes of the British people. Just because you don't agree with it, it matters not one jot.

The majority of MPs voted to leave the highly democratic EU, they triggered art 50 and it became law we leave, but I know you will argue untill you are blue in the face and will always want the last word, so give it your best shot, I'm bored with all this nonsense.

Edited July 23, 2019 by vogie

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Oh, they do. Even more so during crises. Good people have opportunities; why would they want to burn their name instead? 

Burn? Well Duncan is toast anyway. 

[nauseus]

53 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

I would suggest that's exactly what parliament is doing right now, three years down the line. Strong MPs taking action by protecting democracy and by regarding the interests of Britain, not just pleasing a minority movement of leavers.

 

 

Weak MP's trying to protect themselves and their interests. They don't care about the electorate, leave or remain.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Don’t wanna burst your bubble but that’s nothing more than the romantic thought of people who are not good. “stand up for democracy” what does that even mean? You really believe anyone would risk their reputation just to earn the applause of sole spoonies? Let’s see if Jacob and his buddies will “stand up for democracy”...

Spoonies has a soul night?

[loong]

We keep hearing that it would be catastrophic leaving the EU with no deal.

This stalemate can't go on forever.

If there are never-ending extensions, that in itself will damage the UK economy further.

If a deal can't be negotiated, then the UK must leave without a deal. What are the alternatives?

[sandyf]

51 minutes ago, loong said:

We keep hearing that it would be catastrophic leaving the EU with no deal.

This stalemate can't go on forever.

If there are never-ending extensions, that in itself will damage the UK economy further.

If a deal can't be negotiated, then the UK must leave without a deal. What are the alternatives?

It is about time that people realised that the UK cannot leave without a deal, only without an agreement. In the event of no agreement there would need to be a series of "mini deals" to cover the legislative agreements currently in place. Johnson has already indicated this, he just shrugged it off as "EU co-operation" as he does not want to admit to the public the potential consequences of his actions.

It was claimed that every EU trade agreement could easily be "rolled over" for the UK. It has now been revealed that Canada is reluctant to roll over the trade agreement if there is no withdrawal agreement, how many more skeletons in the closet.

 

Those in favour of the "no deal" should try asking hauliers what they think of this document.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/transport-goods-out-of-the-uk-by-road-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu-without-a-deal-checklist-for-hauliers