Dutch Beggar In Bangkok

[sarpesius]

This guy is just asking people for money. They have the choice to give or not.

But people make this choice based on false information the beggar is supplying. It's a very basic con trick.

Exactly! It's a scam... His sign is a lie, his reason for asking for money is a lie and whenever anyone asks him about it he lies more. It's the same as a house and land scam, a share holder scam or any other scam and the people who peretrate these crimes take advantage of other people.

I am not manufacturing pretexts to be cruel, this guy is not asking people for money, you are living in fairy land & if you think that's cruel you probably live in prissy pink oh I broke a fingernail fairy land. Err.. no offence..

Ok now we are going to make you put your money where you mouth is.

The biggest criminal in Thailand is the Thai government, telling you they have laws but enforcing them when they need a bribe.

You bribe government officials to get licences, you bribe police. The police pull you over in your car to extort bribes from you after they have encouraged you to break laws.

Then there are the laws against prostitution. If the thai government were tielling the truth they would shut the whole sex industry down, wouldn't they?

Now if you don't like false pretenses in order to get money, why don't you pick on someone bigger than you?

Do you have the balls for that?

No, you just go after one harmless guy who sits on a bridge with a sign. Almost all beggars have a little lie they tell. why don't you persecute all the Thai beggars who are doing the same thing?

You are such a brave and moral person.

You have real principles.

[SamuiJens]

This guy is just asking people for money. They have the choice to give or not.

But people make this choice based on false information the beggar is supplying. It's a very basic con trick.

Exactly! It's a scam... His sign is a lie, his reason for asking for money is a lie and whenever anyone asks him about it he lies more. It's the same as a house and land scam, a share holder scam or any other scam and the people who peretrate these crimes take advantage of other people.

I am not manufacturing pretexts to be cruel, this guy is not asking people for money, you are living in fairy land & if you think that's cruel you probably live in prissy pink oh I broke a fingernail fairy land. Err.. no offence..

Ok now we are going to make you put your money where you mouth is.

The biggest criminal in Thailand is the Thai government, telling you they have laws but enforcing them when they need a bribe.

You bribe government officials to get licences, you bribe police. The police pull you over in your car to extort bribes from you after they have encouraged you to break laws.

Then there are the laws against prostitution. If the thai government were tielling the truth they would shut the whole sex industry down, wouldn't they?

Now if you don't like false pretenses in order to get money, why don't you pick on someone bigger than you?

Do you have the balls for that?

No, you just go after one harmless guy who sits on a bridge with a sign. Almost all beggars have a little lie they tell. why don't you persecute all the Thai beggars who are doing the same thing?

You are such a brave and moral person.

You have real principles.

How very right you are, some ppl here can only pick on the little guy, NOT the BULLY!

[drenoi]

Are you serious? You're way off mate, way off... It's the little guy who is getting ripped off, the honest hard worker who gets tricked into donating their money and sometimes their time to helping the lives of others.

I'm sorry if your pissed off at how things are run here, I don't necessarily agree with it either, but how you turned the subject of a falang crook who should not be a beggar, who has the means to get a job and not beg into me picking on the little guy and not standing up to corrupt officials is well beyond me. That is another subject entirely which we could discuss at great lengths and which has already been discussed at great lengths by countless others.

I am brave and moral, if you were sitting across from me now, i'll tell you to take your finger our of you a$$ and get a life! You got issues man.

[SamuiJens]

Are you serious? You're way off mate, way off... It's the little guy who is getting ripped off, the honest hard worker who gets tricked into donating their money and sometimes their time to helping the lives of others.

Of course, it's the little guy that gets rip-off from the big bully, the ones in power!!!!

Edited March 27, 2007 by SamuiJens

[ReneThai]

bkkmadness : Thanks to you : Your topic is now on many dutch forums , and even the biggest Dutch newspaper DE TELEGRAAF is mentioning it today.

"Internet works"

Rene

http://pattaya.startpagina.nl

[bkkmadness]

Cheers Rene, I just noticed that 'De Telegraaf' had picked it up earlier.

We'll be bringing you some more vids soon.

Edited March 27, 2007 by bkkmadness

[Catpian Slackbladder]

I saw this man outside Central Chidlom around October last year, bearing a placard saying he'd lost his money etc etc..... i did feel a little sorry for the guy as i was reaching in my pocket, then a thought crossed my mind, what would i do in the UK?

So i carried on walking and didn't bat an eyelid! Afterall, it is his choice to beg, there are plenty of jobs and measures in place throught the embassy to avoid begging!

[obsession]

I didnt have time to read all 9 pages, but my first thought is... who the f*** is the OP to start exposing people. Is he on some kind of crusade. Why stick your nose in someone elses situation, unless its to help. Maybe the beggar suffers from depression or something. I wouldnt beg, but dont critisize people who do, as you dont know their circumstances. What is so rightious about the OPs lifestyle. Live and let live.

[bkkmadness]

I didnt have time to read all 9 pages, but my first thought is... who the f*** is the OP to start exposing people. Is he on some kind of crusade. Why stick your nose in someone elses situation, unless its to help. Maybe the beggar suffers from depression or something. I wouldnt beg, but dont critisize people who do, as you dont know their circumstances. What is so rightious about the OPs lifestyle. Live and let live.

Read the transcript, I didn't expose him, I filmed the guy and had a chat with him.

If he has been exposed because of this, then so be it

If he has exposed himself by saying some things that perhaps he shouldn't, then that's his business.

If you can find a part of the transcript where I have exposed him, please quote it.

Edited March 28, 2007 by bkkmadness

[OlRedEyes]

I am brave and moral, if you were sitting across from me now, i'll tell you to take your finger our of you a$$ and get a life! You got issues man.

Brave and moral people fight big issues, they don't kick little guys who are hurting nobody. You seem to have issues, man.

[obsession]

I didnt have time to read all 9 pages, but my first thought is... who the f*** is the OP to start exposing people. Is he on some kind of crusade. Why stick your nose in someone elses situation, unless its to help. Maybe the beggar suffers from depression or something. I wouldnt beg, but dont critisize people who do, as you dont know their circumstances. What is so rightious about the OPs lifestyle. Live and let live.

Read the transcript, I didn't expose him, I filmed the guy and had a chat with him.

If he has been exposed because of this, then so be it

If he has exposed himself by saying some things that perhaps he shouldn't, then that's his business.

If you can find a part of the transcript where I have exposed him, please quote it.

You have exposed him on Thaivisa.com. How else did we all hear of him?

I admit he may well be " a waste of space". But who are you to decide? It takes a certain type of person to beg in the street, and usually they have mental health issues. If you could earn 100,000 baht a month begging, I guarantee most of us still wouldnt do it.

[LaoPo]

I didnt have time to read all 9 pages, but my first thought is... who the f*** is the OP to start exposing people. Is he on some kind of crusade. Why stick your nose in someone elses situation, unless its to help. Maybe the beggar suffers from depression or something. I wouldnt beg, but dont critisize people who do, as you dont know their circumstances. What is so rightious about the OPs lifestyle. Live and let live.

Read the transcript, I didn't expose him, I filmed the guy and had a chat with him.

If he has been exposed because of this, then so be it

If he has exposed himself by saying some things that perhaps he shouldn't, then that's his business.

If you can find a part of the transcript where I have exposed him, please quote it.

bkkmadness: I didn't post so far but I'm wondering if your movie, posted, isn't against forum rules; I don't want or wish to be the judge here but wouldn't it be better to 'protect' this beggar guy against himself -by not posting- ?

From forum rules:

1) You will not use thaivisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, referencing prostitution (including bargirls and barboys), referencing suicide, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law.

I mean, it would be very easy to film an unstable and/or mentally sick person, whether man, woman or child....and a the same time NOT knowing if he or she is fully capable of understanding what she/he is saying or doing during the shooting of the movie...

Would 'anybody' than -still- have the freedom and right to post such a movie on the internet/Thaivisa forum, even if such a person allows so... ?

With respect though !

LaoPo

[OlRedEyes]

I wouldn't beg for 100 000 baht a month either, unless I had to support someone. I'd rather die, quite honestly. Unless I was a young guy just going through a bad patch.

Personally, I don't think Bkkmadness intended or thought of it as an expose (' or summat). My feeling listening to what he was saying, was more an intent of bringing more insight into a subject often discussed on TV, not to get at the guy, or denounce him. In fact, if I tried to 'expose' someone like that, I wouldn't stick the footage on free Youtube, I'd sell it to some TV channels.

The guy was fully aware that he was being 'interviewed' on camera, and freely volunteered the information, so I cannot see how it is an invasion of his privacy.

Edited March 29, 2007 by OlRedEyes

[bkkmadness]

You have exposed him on Thaivisa.com. How else did we all hear of him?

I admit he may well be " a waste of space". But who are you to decide?

If you read the full topic you'll get a lot of background information such as this guy has been photographed and mentioned on this forum numerous times already.

Who am I to decide he is a waste of space? I didn't decide, I filmed a Dutch man begging in Bangkok, and that is undeniably what he is.

There were no moral judgments in the piece, it was a conversation.

You know someone on youtube commented that I had incorrectly titled the piece and it should read 'Dutch Scammer in Bangkok' because he'd been working the street so long, but I couldn't agree with that, I titled it as I saw it.

[Thai-Spy]

bkkmadness: I didn't post so far but I'm wondering if your movie, posted, isn't against forum rules; I don't want or wish to be the judge here but wouldn't it be better to 'protect' this beggar guy against himself -by not posting- ?

From forum rules:

1) You will not use thaivisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, referencing prostitution (including bargirls and barboys), referencing suicide, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law.

I mean, it would be very easy to film an unstable and/or mentally sick person, whether man, woman or child....and a the same time NOT knowing if he or she is fully capable of understanding what she/he is saying or doing during the shooting of the movie...

Would 'anybody' than -still- have the freedom and right to post such a movie on the internet/Thaivisa forum, even if such a person allows so... ?

With respect though !

LaoPo

Respectfully, it's hard to see how it constitutes invasion of privacy. The Dutchman is performing his "work" in public for one thing. For another, has his full true name or residential location been revealed?

[bkkmadness]

1) You will not use thaivisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, referencing prostitution (including bargirls and barboys), referencing suicide, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law.

Good point LaoPao, but is that a bit more to do with other members privacy? I often see photos of people on this forum in the news sections, has their privacy been invaded and are the TV rules being broken when those stories are posted? As a 'news' story where would this stand?

You know there is a thread running in the Pattaya section, it's actually titled on TV:

"Irishman Video Records Bedroom Activities..........., ......Woman Notices And Informs Police............."

The guy is named in it also. And yet there is no evidence or charges against him for recording bedroom activities. In fact the thread is titled purely on the woman's accusations. Now in that thread what's the problem? The invasion of the guys privacy or the topic title statement which we are led to believe is fact but at the moment is nothing more than an accusation? That's slanderous isn't it?

I mean, it would be very easy to film an unstable and/or mentally sick person, whether man, woman or child....and a the same time NOT knowing if he or she is fully capable of understanding what she/he is saying or doing during the shooting of the movie...

Appreciated, and I know that begging gives him some air of mental instability especially amongst many people who think that's the only reason that a person could sit there and beg. To be honest he seemed of sound mind to me, you can see he answers the questions, he's responsive, even gets a quick joke I cracked. At the end of the day unless it's blatantly obvious he's got mental health issues then I'm going to have to assume he's of sound mind.

Personally, I don't think Bkkmadness intended or thought of it as an expose (' or summat). My feeling listening to what he was saying, was more an intent of bringing more insight into a subject often discussed on TV, not to get at the guy, or denounce him.

That was the intention and I think I kept the interview/chat reasonably neutral.

I appreciate your thoughts both LaoPao and Obsession regarding the ethics of filming this piece and don't think it hasn't run through my head as well. I'm very new to this kind of thing, this was my first video and I've come to realise that to a degree I wield a bit of power with this kind of work and I have to stick to a code of ethics with it. Not being a trained journalist no one has given me a rulebook so I'm trying to find my feet here and questions from others help me do that.

I hope I have conducted myself accordingly, and hope to continue to do so. No doubt some of my films will be questionable in the future, I'm happy to listen to those questions, more often than not I would have already asked myself the same questions before the piece gets aired.

Edited March 29, 2007 by bkkmadness

[bkkmadness]

4000 posts and I'm still spelling his name wrong, sorry LaoPo, bit mashed this morning.

Edited March 29, 2007 by bkkmadness

[Toptrainer]

I don't even like bkkmadness and I think he did a good job here.

I hope that we don't all conduct our lives according to T.V. rules doubt we could get out of bed without being banned!

[Minburi]

I remember a few years back this english bloke came up to me and my wife outside the world trade center and gave us this sob story about 2 working girls robbing him in Pattaya of all his money and such and asked for thai baht to get home as the embassy was not helping him at all. My wife felt sorry for him and gave 500 baht if I recall right and that was it. But it does not end there around 3 weeks later he tried to hit us up again in almost the same spot with the same story and we refuse and he called us a bunch of names and stormed off when we refused to help further. Then finally we saw him begging at the Old DOn Muang airport in on the departure level for any extra Thai Baht people leaving had when we were dropping someone off last year just before they closed it.

[LaoPo]

1) You will not use thaivisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, referencing prostitution (including bargirls and barboys), referencing suicide, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law.

Good point LaoPao, but is that a bit more to do with other members privacy? I often see photos of people on this forum in the news sections, has their privacy been invaded and are the TV rules being broken when those stories are posted? As a 'news' story where would this stand?

You know there is a thread running in the Pattaya section, it's actually titled on TV:

"Irishman Video Records Bedroom Activities..........., ......Woman Notices And Informs Police............."

The guy is named in it also. And yet there is no evidence or charges against him for recording bedroom activities. In fact the thread is titled purely on the woman's accusations. Now in that thread what's the problem? The invasion of the guys privacy or the topic title statement which we are led to believe is fact but at the moment is nothing more than an accusation? That's slanderous isn't it?

I mean, it would be very easy to film an unstable and/or mentally sick person, whether man, woman or child....and a the same time NOT knowing if he or she is fully capable of understanding what she/he is saying or doing during the shooting of the movie...

Appreciated, and I know that begging gives him some air of mental instability especially amongst many people who think that's the only reason that a person could sit there and beg. To be honest he seemed of sound mind to me, you can see he answers the questions, he's responsive, even gets a quick joke I cracked. At the end of the day unless it's blatantly obvious he's got mental health issues then I'm going to have to assume he's of sound mind.

Personally, I don't think Bkkmadness intended or thought of it as an expose (' or summat). My feeling listening to what he was saying, was more an intent of bringing more insight into a subject often discussed on TV, not to get at the guy, or denounce him.

That was the intention and I think I kept the interview/chat reasonably neutral.

I appreciate your thoughts both LaoPao and Obsession regarding the ethics of filming this piece and don't think it hasn't run through my head as well. I'm very new to this kind of thing, this was my first video and I've come to realise that to a degree I wield a bit of power with this kind of work and I have to stick to a code of ethics with it. Not being a trained journalist no one has given me a rulebook so I'm trying to find my feet here and questions from others help me do that.

I hope I have conducted myself accordingly, and hope to continue to do so. No doubt some of my films will be questionable in the future, I'm happy to listen to those questions, more often than not I would have already asked myself the same questions before the piece gets aired.

Thanks for your answer.

As said I don't want/wish/can't be the judge here, so I'll leave it from here.

As for my name.....I didn't realize it was so difficult for some...

LaoPo

[obsession]

Thanks for the answer.

[wakingdream]

You're all a very passionate bunch. There have been some great points brought up. If I ever learned anything from my dear old dad though, it's this ;don't judge another man until you walk a mile in his shoes. To make a fully informed statement, mustn't we have all facts? Do we have all facts here? I have read through this entire thread and alot of opinions seemed to be based on some sort of speculation.

No, this Dutch guy should probably not be begging on the streets of BKK but he is doing it and he is getting money for it. Fact. Unsavory? Depends on what the real story is, but I have zero idea what the story is with this guy .... my only comment would be that begging under false pretenses (ie lieing about why he needs the $$) could be considered theiving but beggars do it all the time b/c we all know a good story sells....

[tedval]

It makes me really sick to look at most of the intolerant uncompassionate posts here - especially the ones filing complaints.

Why don't you guys get a life instead of mocking someone who's litteraly in the gutter. Judging beggars are just so ###### easy - even though you don't have a clue on who, why and for what reason - not to speak of that you yourselves probably have what you need in your lifes.

I don't know about you guys, but I certainly wouldn't like to sit and beg a 7 hours day in the healthy Bangkok smog for merely 1000B... My guess is, that this is no farrangs choice if it weren't really necessary. In my opinion he earned the money.

But I guess that you yourselves are so utterly perfect human beings - who's always are and have been on the straight path, loving, caring, giving and so very compassionate. And as you are so admirable know-it-all individuals you think that you do have the God-given right to judge others in public, smear, filing complaints and raise hel_l around others that you in fact don't no anything about.

<sigh>

//Loke

Hi Loke, i'm sorry to say mate but i think youv'e missed the point, what a lot of people are saying is why dosn't he go to his embassy and then on to Holland were theres a system which will look after him. The reason the guys getting bad press is simple! the Thais in this country who are really poor don't have an option but this guy dose!

In my own thought,this guy really doesn't want to go home ,why?He has lots in mind;name it,you can eat for only 20 bhts , he can have a lady for only how many bhts ,etc,etc.......Perhaps as one contributor said that money from begging is not same as stolen as givers are from their willingness to give but that's not the matter. The point here is he's degrading the standard of Dutch people.

Ted

[junkofdavid2]

youtube is off the air but you can still watch him here:

http://www.vimeo.com/clip:156247/context/tag:people

[Matthew31140]

did his guy know was being filmed??

[Murdock]

There used to be a Thai guy in samui with an amputated leg. In the evening he'd beg outside the busy bars. And you guessed it, in the daytime he'd go to his 9 to 5 on his shinny prosthetic leg. And we say Thais have no initiative!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

There used to be a Thai guy in samui with an amputated leg. In the evening he'd beg outside the busy bars. And you guessed it, in the daytime he'd go to his 9 to 5 on his shinny prosthetic leg. And we say Thais have no initiative!

That guy was a thinker

[LaoPo]

There used to be a Thai guy in samui with an amputated leg. In the evening he'd beg outside the busy bars. And you guessed it, in the daytime he'd go to his 9 to 5 on his shinny prosthetic leg. And we say Thais have no initiative!

That guy was a thinker

Agree; he's an entrepreneur and works 2 jobs... Tha'ts the kind of spirit Thailand needs...

LaoPo

[SiamSquare123]

i saw this guy last week around pantip plaza. i guess he wanted a new mp3 or camera. gotta give the guy a hand doing this for three years on! he seemed like he wasnt all there. i think he might have some health issues.

Edited July 14, 2007 by SiamSquare123

[SamuiJens]

Well at least he's Not stealing his money!