Dream Shattered...

[Jet Gorgon]

I lived in Asia over 20 years as a single woman. Mobi and UG hit the nail on the head about expat wifes: most do not do well here for all the reasons they stated.

NR, you and I are diff because we came here on our own and we WANTED to come here.

[November Rain]

Since going back we have spoken on the phone and she has stated that she does not want to come back. Since returning to the UK she is happier and back in her 'comfort zone', this leaves me torn apart as I am now away from my son, and she has said that I now have to decide what is more important; my career or my family, I feel like I am being emotionally blackmailed.

The fact that you have to even think twice about a decision ( whether fair or not !) between your career and your baby son makes me think that you should have given more thought before you brought a child into the world. Hope you make the correct decision so your son has a real father.

That's hardly fair, jj. My father spent most of my childhood away because of various jobs. It was because he loved his family & wanted to provide for them he did this. If the situation is as OP describes, I don't think he's in the wrong for considering his options as to what's best. Who knows what the future would hold if he went back, resenting the child's mother, for forcing this? An absent loving father can be better than an atmosphere of hostility for a child...

[helicoptor]

I will ALWAYS be his dad and a good one at that, wherever I am

[November Rain]

I lived in Asia over 20 years as a single woman. Mobi and UG hit the nail on the head about expat wifes: most do not do well here for all the reasons they stated.

NR, you and I are diff because we came here on our own and we WANTED to come here.

Yes, I came to LoS on my own, but I went to HK as an expat wife. My marriage did break down, but I stayed in Asia & hubby went back to the West (he's in Canada now).

[COBBER]

Helicopter. Im very sory to hear of this. You must be shattered at this point in time. Good luck with everything , i hope you can sort things out mate.

[donna]

to say i am astounded at some of the replies here is an understatement.

i have lived in thailand for nearly 8 years now. i came here to do a job that i loved. i am single.

there is not 1mm of me which feels jealous of thai women! to be born into a society which allows and embraces men who wear frocks, yet at the same frowns upon a strong woman who has an opinion and 'balls' to voice that opinion is not something i envy.

to be all 'girly' and 'cutesy' as part of the charade to snare a man? no thanks. i would much rather be myself and single than to have to pander to a mans desires so much that i lose my sense of self. (these are my opinions, and, no, i am not a 'femo nazi' as many of you may incorrectly assume)

now, back to the topic.

my first six months were the hardest here. i feel that your fiance did not give it time to settle in. you, and she, should remember that its not only expat communities that she should learn to settle into. as an expat woman, there is so much more to this country than just finding expat ladies to mingle with.

perhaps there were faults on both sides, i dont know. maybe there was something under all of this that only she can define?

but you need to do the best thing for you and your family. do you love her? do you want to be with her? keep on communicating with her and try to find out what the real problem was. if it was just assimilating to thai life, i can understand. but you have to be a bit more persistant and willing to fit in than she perhaps was.

i wish you luck and hope that you can resolve your differences.

[steveromagnino]

to say i am astounded at some of the replies here is an understatement.

i have lived in thailand for nearly 8 years now. i came here to do a job that i loved. i am single.

there is not 1mm of me which feels jealous of thai women! to be born into a society which allows and embraces men who wear frocks, yet at the same frowns upon a strong woman who has an opinion and 'balls' to voice that opinion is not something i envy.

to be all 'girly' and 'cutesy' as part of the charade to snare a man? no thanks. i would much rather be myself and single than to have to pander to a mans desires so much that i lose my sense of self. (these are my opinions, and, no, i am not a 'femo nazi' as many of you may incorrectly assume)

yeah whatever. It amazes me that you've managed to live here 8 years, and still not have much of a clue about Thai women; ah well. I guess your post speaks volumes for the type of people you associate with. I expect some of the idiotic feminazi rubbish from white guys here; that is par for the course. But how ironic that you should come up with something which at least to me seems equally inaccurate.

[billaaa777]

How lucky you are! If she divorces you back home you don’t have to pay alimony. And what better place in the world to be a single man with a good salary. Life sucks but somebody has to do it. Just tell all the stories you are going to have to your friends back home and everyone one of them will wish they were you. Just remember girls are like busses, as soon as one passes another is coming along. Stop being a stinking whip, forget the girl and have the time of your life!

[jayjayjayjay]

Helicopter,

Some of us find our comfort zone, some work here for the career move, other just fall apart. I feel sorry that you fit into the first and second group and your fiance clearly in the third. There are many couples separated by distance albeit with the oposing problem your faced with. Farangs that work in the oil industry or have there own businesses in their home countries but still choose to have their families based here, normally with Thai wifes. Your situation presents itself as the opposite.

What are your chances of modifying your work conditions to have 21 days working on, then take a week off spent in the UK. If your fiancee gets a change to visit regularily, maybe have her come here for a week every second month and you go to UK alternatively. You would still maintain the career, the job your obviously enjoy, and you get the quality time with your son. She may warm to this situation. Just an idea!

Good luck.

[KhunMarco]

3 months and she is gone, speaks volume to me. Now she says you have to make a choice between the career and the family? She already made a choice between you and the family it seems...

I understand why her dad is pissed off

[polecat]

I agree about it taking time to adapt. I've lived in several countries in SEA and the first 3 months are always the hardest. In fact, I consider the first year a mere grounding.

Having said that, you've got a kid together, and at least your fiance gave it a shot. I guess many partners would have said a flat 'no'. Give her that credit I can't see why you risk losing your kid (and your fiance) over something like this.

As for the Viagra-pats posting here...I just don't get it with farang guys and Thai women. There's a huge myth about their beauty. I work in an office with a couple of hundred decidedly plain looking Thai women. I walk down the street, go to the malls, hit the bars, and see decidely plain looking Thai women. Sure there are some beauties, but they are firmly in the minority.

But maybe it was Pattaya that did it. At least in Bangkok and Chiang Mai etc, you don't have the sleaze surrounding you unless you hit certain spots.

I say talk to her and try and work out a compromise. If the relationship is strong enough to survive 9 months apart, try that. If not, I say ship out and save your family. Certainly don't chuck it all in to sit around in Pattaya for a few more months.

[wolfmanjack]

My wife has done things that i would have booted her out the door for if there would not have been children involved. Tough decision when you love your child.

[lamphun]

Please ignore all the advice here except for the postings by "November Rain" who seems IMHO to be spot on.

[thaihome]

The expat life is certainly not for everyone and for wives it can be even harder. One problem I see is the OP didn’t come here on a finite assignment but apparently to live here permanently, as in forever. That really makes him an immigrant (even if Thailand does not recognize that). That may be one thing that is bothering his fiancé.

Another factor that has not been mentioned is her feelings about her father and his Thai wife. I wonder if there are some issues there. Adult children can often have issues with the choices their parents have made, and being adults; don’t have to put up with like children do. It may be a bit much to ask for her to have to see her father with another woman, who maybe a lot younger then her mother, and who knows what the circumstance that lead to what exists today.

TH

[helicoptor]

First of all, I'd like to take issue with a couple of things previous posters have said - and I feel I am eminently qualified to do so, as I am one of the farang women they are generalising about!

UG - what on earth are you on about? You can't imagine why any straight farang woman would want to come here? Well, as a straight farang woman, shall I enlighten you? Pretty much the same reasons as you blokes, apart from the girls - and some of us have even gone so far as to <gasp> have relationships with Thai blokes as well. Talk about equal opportunities...

Mobi d'ark - Western women immediately feel jealous of Thai women whether they admit it or not? Really? And I guess you'd know being a Western woman? Oh, sorry, you're not, are you? I'm not jealous of Thai women. I'd like to get nice shoes to fit, but other than that I couldn't give a toss whether they are more petite than me, prettier than me, have better figures than me (subjective - Reubens would have preferred my figure, but even I would have been too skinny for him!) I've seen some of the blokes some of them end up with - I can assure you I'm certainly not jealous of that!

Please guys, don't generalise, esp when you don't know what you're talking about.

Back on topic, Helicoptor, I don't know your situation. It does sound to me that your fiancee didn't give it a fair try, three months isn't enough time IMO to adapt to a whole new lifestyle. However, a lot of people, particularly women do find it hard & very scary to break out of their comfort zone/rut & just can't handle the pressure of a completely new & different life. When I moved to LoS a female friend came with me & it was exactly the same story, she made no real effort to get a job, but moaned when they didn't fall in her lap, she didn't try to adapt & (like your fiancee) went back to UK within a few months.

I don't think she'll change her mind, from what you say, so you do need to decide what is most important to you. It's very sad that access to your child is caught up in this, but from what you've said, it looks like you're at stalemate at the moment. I think the ball is firmly in your court, but your decision has to be based on what you want. If you go back solely for her, you'll resent her & eventually your relationship will break down anyway. Good luck.

This is what concerns me most

[donna]

to say i am astounded at some of the replies here is an understatement.

i have lived in thailand for nearly 8 years now. i came here to do a job that i loved. i am single.

there is not 1mm of me which feels jealous of thai women! to be born into a society which allows and embraces men who wear frocks, yet at the same frowns upon a strong woman who has an opinion and 'balls' to voice that opinion is not something i envy.

to be all 'girly' and 'cutesy' as part of the charade to snare a man? no thanks. i would much rather be myself and single than to have to pander to a mans desires so much that i lose my sense of self. (these are my opinions, and, no, i am not a 'femo nazi' as many of you may incorrectly assume)

yeah whatever. It amazes me that you've managed to live here 8 years, and still not have much of a clue about Thai women; ah well. I guess your post speaks volumes for the type of people you associate with. I expect some of the idiotic feminazi rubbish from white guys here; that is par for the course. But how ironic that you should come up with something which at least to me seems equally inaccurate.

admittedly, steveromagnino, i was generalising. but as i have many friends who are thai women (both the 'girly and cutesy' type, but many more of the stronger type) i feel that i have a pretty broad range of friends and i do 'have a clue'. how do you know what kinds of people i choose to associate with?

the first part of my post was in response to some of the totally inaccurate posts by other men on this forum.

but this thread isnt about thai women, is it? its about helicopter and his fiance.

i will stick by my advice to helicopter and tell him to keep the lines of communication open and try to find out if there is an underlying reason that she was unable to stay here.

as i have said before, the first six months are the hardest. you just have to be able to stick them out and then it 'usually' becomes smooth sailing.

[sceadugenga]

How lucky you are! If she divorces you back home you don’t have to pay alimony. And what better place in the world to be a single man with a good salary. Life sucks but somebody has to do it. Just tell all the stories you are going to have to your friends back home and everyone one of them will wish they were you. Just remember girls are like busses, as soon as one passes another is coming along. Stop being a stinking whip, forget the girl and have the time of your life!

I was going to post something very similar to this then had a second thought or two about it.

She runs to the Family Court looking for child support. She tells the judge the OP is in Thailand and unlikely to return regardless of what he or his lawyer says. She points at the house....gimme gimme. Judge totes up twenty years child support, decides she's right and away it goes.

Maybe the judge doesn't and orders the OP to pay maintenance, he gets sick of this in a couple of years and stops doing it. Assets have been divided so if he ever sets foot on English soil again he's in big trouble.

Anything to do with wives, children and courts......if your male, look at the worst possible outcome first.

But then I'm on my fourth marriage so what would I know.

[helicoptor]

How lucky you are! If she divorces you back home you don’t have to pay alimony. And what better place in the world to be a single man with a good salary. Life sucks but somebody has to do it. Just tell all the stories you are going to have to your friends back home and everyone one of them will wish they were you. Just remember girls are like busses, as soon as one passes another is coming along. Stop being a stinking whip, forget the girl and have the time of your life!

I was going to post something very similar to this then had a second thought or two about it.

She runs to the Family Court looking for child support. She tells the judge the OP is in Thailand and unlikely to return regardless of what he or his lawyer says. She points at the house....gimme gimme. Judge totes up twenty years child support, decides she's right and away it goes.

Maybe the judge doesn't and orders the OP to pay maintenance, he gets sick of this in a couple of years and stops doing it. Assets have been divided so if he ever sets foot on English soil again he's in big trouble.

Anything to do with wives, children and courts......if your male, look at the worst possible outcome first.

But then I'm on my fourth marriage so what would I know.

Stone me thats cheered me up - (wheres that rope and chair...)

[pumpuiman]

Stick it out in Thailand.

Your fiance obviously doesn't care about you or your family remaining together.

Your moving to the U.K. won't change her selfish attitude towards your life as a family.

Your lucky you haven't married her.

Do your best to be a father to your child, and live your life as you see fit.

Her ultimatum should be a slap in the face.

Would you accept that from a friend?

Is she your friend?

Why would you marry a woman who would use your child as a pawn?

Why would you marry a woman that lied to you?

She's bad news.

Move on.

[helicoptor]

She resented the fact that I settled into life her more than her, the difference between us was that I made a real effort to do so, and I felt she didnt really think it through, maybe its a confidence thing. She missed her family and friends, what she described as her 'Support Network'

Every day there was a complaint about one thing or another, it ground me down eventually and it came to a head with (another) huge row, she admitted herself she hated the way she had become, saying hurtful personal things to each other. And I felt the mutual respect for each other disappeared as a result.

She has been very naive about the whole moving to Thailand thing, I did a lot of research about Thailand, and have been posting on here since before moving here, I was worried about my cats settling, Ironic that they have been the least of my problems.

BTW my fiancee is also 4 months pregnant (just to put another spin on things) so hormone crazy as well.

[sceadugenga]

Holy fact overload Batman.

Best to stay here with the cats, gonna have a hassle getting them back to the UK anyway.

Second best, leave the moggies here, go back and sort out asset division, child support, regular visits to the kiddies and all that other good stuff and come back. What she leaves you will still be enough to live here in comfort anyway.

[Insight]

Helicopter - very difficult situation to say the least. Sorry how it's worked out. If you have a good relationship with your boss/her dad, this could be persuasive force element in getting her to move back, but I doubt it'll be anytime immediately.

One point to make - Saying Farang women don't like it here because they're jealous of the local women is as much of a generalisation as saying we like it here because we can't get laid back home.

[Boo]

Helicopter is there a reason you uhaven't yet mentioned that your fiancee is also pregnant again with your second Child ???(going from posts in the family section)

Could it be that her hormones have a lot to do with it as well as being a bit apprehensive (even scared) of being pregnant away from her comfort zone.

As for the "screw her she never made an effort brigade" remeber there is only one side to this story so far. And if anyone wants to start the farang women/thai women comparison bit with bitching about either side or their ex wives or whatever pathetic attempt at flaming they want to try, then warnings or bannings wil be given ok.

[Mobi]

Helicopter, a few words of advice, if I may.

1. Keep the high moral ground, and don't do anything that may give her the upper hand in any potential child support situation. If you stick to your original agreement, and stay in Thailand.she may get frustrated and make a reasonable settlement with you to bring it to finality.Remember, she walked out on you, so keep the 'right' on your side.

2. Please. please please, don't drown your sorrows too much. It's so easy to slip into but will be the worst possible thing you can do. Be strong and see through your contract.

3. You will probably 'stray', but avoid getting involved in any permanent or semi- permanent relationships. You have the rest of your life for that - sort your current problems first.

Be patient, and I suspect that in time, you will know what you need to do.

BTW, I find the hostile reaction by some female members of this forum to my hypothesis on 'western women in Thailand' (developed over more that 30 years I may add), is absolutely fascinating, and every angry word simply reinforces my views.

[helicoptor]

Helicopter - very difficult situation to say the least. Sorry how it's worked out. If you have a good relationship with your boss/her dad, this could be persuasive force element in getting her to move back, but I doubt it'll be anytime immediately.

One point to make - Saying Farang women don't like it here because they're jealous of the local women is as much of a generalisation as saying we like it here because we can't get laid back home.

He considers I am doing a good job for him here and we get on very well together, both in work and socially, actually a better relationship between us than father/daughter, another thing she resented.

I've had bitter comments along the lines of 'lost a daughter, gained a son' etc etc

[helicoptor]

Helicopter, a few words of advice, if I may.

1. Keep the high moral ground, and don't do anything that may give her the upper hand in any potential child support situation. If you stick to your original agreement, and stay in Thailand.she may get frustrated and make a reasonable settlement with you to bring it to finality.Remember, she walked out on you, so keep the 'right' on your side.

2. Please. please please, don't drown your sorrows too much. It's so easy to slip into but will be the worst possible thing you can do. Be strong and see through your contract.

3. You will probably 'stray', but avoid getting involved in any permanent or semi- permanent relationships. You have the rest of your life for that - sort your current problems first.

Be patient, and I suspect that in time, you will know what you need to do.

BTW, I find the hostile reaction by some female members of this forum to my hypothesis on 'western women in Thailand' (developed over more that 30 years I may add), is absolutely fascinating, and every angry word simply reinforces my views.

[Boo]

BTW, I find the hostile reaction by some female members of this forum to my hypothesis on 'western women in Thailand' (developed over more that 30 years I may add), is absolutely fascinating, and every angry word simply reinforces my views.

Please read my post.

[sceadugenga]

Helicopter, a few words of advice, if I may.

1. Keep the high moral ground, and don't do anything that may give her the upper hand in any potential child support situation. If you stick to your original agreement, and stay in Thailand.she may get frustrated and make a reasonable settlement with you to bring it to finality.Remember, she walked out on you, so keep the 'right' on your side.

2. Please. please please, don't drown your sorrows too much. It's so easy to slip into but will be the worst possible thing you can do. Be strong and see through your contract.

3. You will probably 'stray', but avoid getting involved in any permanent or semi- permanent relationships. You have the rest of your life for that - sort your current problems first.

Be patient, and I suspect that in time, you will know what you need to do.

BTW, I find the hostile reaction by some female members of this forum to my hypothesis on 'western women in Thailand' (developed over more that 30 years I may add), is absolutely fascinating, and every angry word simply reinforces my views.

Good advice apart from the upper hand bit. She's a woman with two kids, she can't get any more upper than that in a UK court. If he really wants to know where he stands he should try telling a UK lawyer he wants custody. The hysterical laughter will reveal all.

[Mobi]

Please read my post.

Apologies. Our posts crossed. Subject closed as far as I'm concerned.

[Mobi]

Good advice apart from the upper hand bit. She's a woman with two kids, she can't get any more upper than that in a UK court. If he really wants to know where he stands he should try telling a UK lawyer he wants custody. The hysterical laughter will reveal all.

Yes, another baby appeared while I was writing my post. You quite right of course, but the point I am making is that she may be rerasonable, as long as he doesn't do anything precipitous. She may come to an amicable agreement without resorting to the courts. (I know - pigs might fly )