7 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Obama inherited an economy in total free-fall which many feared was heading to a new great depression.  He also inherited a $1.4 trillion deficit from President Bush's final budget.  The economy turned around under Obama and the deficit declined to $585 billion in FY 2016.  https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306

 

Trump slightly, and temporarily, revved up the economy with a massive tax cut, but drove the deficit up to $778 billion in FY 2018 and is expected to run trillion dollar deficits for the foreseeable future.  There is no evidence that Trump's cutting environmental regulations had any measurable impact on the economy or on the shale oil and gas industries, which were doing very well during the Obama Presidency.

 

Those are FACTS, bro.

bro, do you even know the difference between the debt and the deficits?

13 hours ago, mikebike said:

I particularly like it when you capitalize the "h" in him... makes your postings much more credible.

You need to develop a sense of humor!  Lets make Joan Baez laugh!  LOL!

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

"all you need to know the history of what happened is to look it up on the internet.  man, I love the internet"

 

 

And welcome back. That was quick.

 

 

funny.   but back to being serious...  how do you deal with china?  are you suggesting we just sit back and twiddle our thumbs and allow them to take everything without a fight?  president trump is doing the right thing and opposing china.  otherwise, bye bye freedom.  people in hong kong know this.  and so do the people in taiwan.

5 minutes ago, DEKEM said:

bro, do you even know the difference between the debt and the deficits?

 His post was correct so it seems as if you're the one who doesn't know the difference between debt and deficit. 

4 minutes ago, DEKEM said:

bro, do you even know the difference between the debt and the deficits?

Yes bro.  Are you trying to divert attention away from the fact that Presidents and Congress control government finances with annual budgets that determine how much the debt goes up or down?  Do you know the impact of a bad economy on deficits?  Have you noticed that the promise that tax cuts would pay for themselves and reduce the deficit never happen?

1 minute ago, pegman said:

 His post was correct so it seems as if you're the one who doesn't know the difference between debt and deficit. 

the debt is the total accummulation of all deficits incurred.  the deficit is just the picture for one year.  it reminds me of the clinton years when I debated the issue with people online back then.  all these people were saying that clinton saved the planet by decreasing the deficit for one year.  and I replied, how does that relate to the total debt?  didn't get any answers.  because all these people I was debating with didn't know the difference between the debt and the deficits.  no clue at all.

3 minutes ago, DEKEM said:

funny.   but back to being serious...  how do you deal with china?  are you suggesting we just sit back and twiddle our thumbs and allow them to take everything without a fight?  president trump is doing the right thing and opposing china.  otherwise, bye bye freedom.  people in hong kong know this.  and so do the people in taiwan.

You think that Trump alienating all our trading partners and China at the same time is the correct way to deal with China?  I don't.  I think an alliance of free market economies using a coordinated plan to deal with China would work much better.  I think we should have had the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

 

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Yes bro.  Are you trying to divert attention away from the fact that Presidents and Congress control government finances with annual budgets that determine how much the debt goes up or down?  Do you know the impact of a bad economy on deficits?  Have you noticed that the promise that tax cuts would pay for themselves and reduce the deficit never happen?

I rest my case.

1 minute ago, DEKEM said:

the debt is the total accummulation of all deficits incurred.  the deficit is just the picture for one year.  it reminds me of the clinton years when I debated the issue with people online back then.  all these people were saying that clinton saved the planet by decreasing the deficit for one year.  and I replied, how does that relate to the total debt?  didn't get any answers.  because all these people I was debating with didn't know the difference between the debt and the deficits.  no clue at all.

You are not debating those people now.

Just now, DEKEM said:

I rest my case.

I assume that means you give up.  Or will you actually challenge any of the facts I posted?

 

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

You think that Trump alienating all our trading partners and China at the same time is the correct way to deal with China?  I don't.  I think an alliance of free market economies using a coordinated plan to deal with China would work much better.  I think we should have had the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

 

are you even listening to me, bro.  war is about to start.  and china is starting it.  diplomacy doesn't work when war starts.  common sense.  when countries cannot come to agreement via diplomacy, globalization doesn't work.  the idea behind globalization is to let the most efficient do the work for any particular task.  that was the whole reason why people believed in outsourcing jobs and factories.  everybody gains.  but when you factor war into the picture, what happens to all the outsourced jobs and factories?  

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I assume that means you give up.  Or will you actually challenge any of the facts I posted?

 

like I said, I rest my case.  I will let the peanut gallery judge the debate.

11 minutes ago, DEKEM said:

funny.   but back to being serious...  how do you deal with china?  are you suggesting we just sit back and twiddle our thumbs and allow them to take everything without a fight?  president trump is doing the right thing and opposing china.  otherwise, bye bye freedom.  people in hong kong know this.  and so do the people in taiwan.

 

Yes. You are. But to address your "question":

 

You try and workout a more global effort addressing the issue. Avoid antagonizing potential allies. Focus the effort rather than start multiple international confrontations. Coordinate policy, rather than attempt to dictate, with relevant firms. Yap less, do more. And funny you should mention "twiddle our thumbs", what with Trump's Tweeter habit.

10 minutes ago, DEKEM said:

are you even listening to me, bro.  war is about to start.  and china is starting it.  diplomacy doesn't work when war starts.  common sense.  when countries cannot come to agreement via diplomacy, globalization doesn't work.  the idea behind globalization is to let the most efficient do the work for any particular task.  that was the whole reason why people believed in outsourcing jobs and factories.  everybody gains.  but when you factor war into the picture, what happens to all the outsourced jobs and factories?  

No, I'm not listening to you, I'm reading your posts, and you are posting nonsense.

8 minutes ago, DEKEM said:

like I said, I rest my case.  I will let the peanut gallery judge the debate.

Your theory falls flat on it's face if there is no war.

 

There will be no war.

29 minutes ago, DEKEM said:

are you even listening to me, bro.  war is about to start.  and china is starting it.  diplomacy doesn't work when war starts.  common sense.  when countries cannot come to agreement via diplomacy, globalization doesn't work.  the idea behind globalization is to let the most efficient do the work for any particular task.  that was the whole reason why people believed in outsourcing jobs and factories.  everybody gains.  but when you factor war into the picture, what happens to all the outsourced jobs and factories?  

You Yanks got your asses kicked by North Vietnam.  What's going to happen against a nuclear power like China? Besides, it seems Trump has already declared war on storms.  Wouldn't it be wiser to finish up with Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and those Atlantic Ocean storms before you take on China?

 

 

Edited August 26, 20196 yr by pegman

22 minutes ago, DEKEM said:

like I said, I rest my case.  I will let the peanut gallery judge the debate.

Really?  Do you think the peanut gallery will be impressed by your explanation of the difference between deficits and debt?  Do you think they will overlook the fact that you ignore the underlying drivers of deficits and debt?

3 minutes ago, pegman said:

You Yanks got your asses kicked by North Vietnam.  What's going to happen against a nuclear power like China? 

In the event of a nuclear war the technologies underlying governments and economies will be destroyed, there will be mass starvation, societal collapse, anarchy, and a regression to the dark ages if not the stone age.

 

China know this.  I'm not sure Trump knows this, but hopefully someone has told him that nuclear war will be bad for real estate values and golfing.

45 minutes ago, pegman said:

 

 

Thanks Pegman, for adding this video with Cenk Uygur demonstrating beyond any doubt that Trump is a lunatic! 

The presentation is very funny but the subject is actually quite scary...

Must see! 

On 8/24/2019 at 7:46 AM, mtls2005 said:

"I hereby order..." 

 

Meltdown in full view. 

 

 

Please exchange all US dollar reserves back into gold first. Deal?

4 hours ago, DEKEM said:

the reason the economy was not dying under obama is because it was propped up with the money he borrowed during his 8 years in office.  let me remind you, he DOUBLED the total debt in 8 years.  from 9 trillion to 21 trillion.  look it up.

 

the reason why the economy is doing great under president trump is because he pulled back all the environmental regulations and allowed the country to harvest all the oil and coal that is in it's borders.  he also pulled back all the taxes that prohibited companies from wanting to do business in the usa. 

 

those are the FACTS, bro.

To start with, your figures are inaccurate. You need to take into account the budget voted as a new president must apply the budget decided by the previous administration during the first year. Obama increased debt by 8.588 trillion from 11.657 to 20.245 trillion.

However, as mentioned by another poster, Obama had to fight a crisis. That was done during his first term with an increase of 5082 trillion. During the second term, as the effect of the crisis was diminishing, he started reducing budget deficits and the debt increase was 3.508 trillion (672 only during the last year).

 

Unlike Obama, Trump started again to increase budget deficits and debt during a period of regular growth, with a planned deficit of 5,088 trillion during his first term. That's how he bought extra growth. During a period of prosperity, he increased debt by as much as Obama did in order to fight a crisis: around 5 trillion.

These are facts.

 

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

 

Edited August 26, 20196 yr by candide

Just now, candide said:

To start with, your figures are inaccurate. You need to take into account the budget voted as a new president must apply the budget decided by the previous administration during the first year. Obama increased debt by 8.588 trillion from 11.657 to 20.245 trillion.

However, as mentioned by another poster, Obama had to fight a crisis. That was done during his first term with an increase of 5082 trillion. During the second term, as the effect of the crisis was diminishing, he started reducing budget deficits and the debt increase was 3.508 trillion (672 only during the last year).

 

Unlike Obama, Trump started again to increase budget deficits and debt during a period of regular growth, with a planned deficit of 5,088 trillion during his first term. That's how he bought extra growth. During a period of prosperity, he increased debt by as much as Obama did in order to fight a crisis: around 5 trillion.

 

And what crisis was he fighting?  Same as Bush.  There is an expression same <deleted> different pile.  lol 

Can't help but think this topic will quickly become irrelevant. Trump will back down. I guarantee it. He always does. He will look at the stock market, panic, and probably come out with more news about trade optimism and how the Chinese really want to do a "deal" now. Just watch and wait. The ONLY thing that matters to Trump is the stock market. The ONLY thing.

20 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Can't help but think this topic will quickly become irrelevant. Trump will back down. I guarantee it. He always does. He will look at the stock market, panic, and probably come out with more news about trade optimism and how the Chinese really want to do a "deal" now. Just watch and wait. The ONLY thing that matters to Trump is the stock market. The ONLY thing.

And here it is, almost simultaneously with my writing the above post.

 

 

8 minutes ago, zydeco said:

And here it is, almost simultaneously with my writing the above post.

 

 

They will agree on a cosmetic arrangement which will allow Trump to claim a victory. The Chinese will let him claim it because they don't really care about the trade war. What matters more to the current Chinese government is Taiwan.

3 minutes ago, candide said:

They will agree on a cosmetic arrangement which will allow Trump to claim a victory. The Chinese will let him claim it because they don't really care about the trade war. What matters more to the current Chinese government is Taiwan.

Really? I think he is lying. The Chinese side is saying the call never happened. I am worried that I face a situation, now, where I believe the Chinese government more, when it comes to the trade war, than I do the American one.

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

Yes bro.  Are you trying to divert attention away from the fact that Presidents and Congress control government finances with annual budgets that determine how much the debt goes up or down?  Do you know the impact of a bad economy on deficits?  Have you noticed that the promise that tax cuts would pay for themselves and reduce the deficit never happen?

You are naive to think tax cuts, or tax increase are the answer to the deficit.  

48 minutes ago, zydeco said:

And here it is, almost simultaneously with my writing the above post.

 

 

I have to filter anything that starts with, “Trump says”, thru the lie-o-meter... he is the ultimate crier of “wolf”... who is listening at this point?

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

Your video shows that Obama did not make the magic wand claim regarding GDP growth, as you claimed. 

 

As noted, Trump gave the economy a temporary boost with his massive, deficit fueling tax cut.  Yet the average monthly job growth during the first two years of Trump were lower than during the last two years of Obama.  https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2019/article/employment-growth-accelerates-in-2018.htm

 

End of story Trumpy.

Obama was talking about manufacturing. Manufacturing equals GDP. Trump was correct to equate jobs with GDP, and was correct in interpreting Obama's remarks. 

I assume you can read a graph?

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188185/percent-chance-from-preceding-period-in-real-gdp-in-the-us/

3 minutes ago, mikebike said:

I have to filter anything that starts with, “Trump says”, thru the lie-o-meter... he is the ultimate crier of “wolf”... who is listening at this point?

About 200 million Americans for starters.