Is this legal? No farangs welcome...

[tgw]

27 minutes ago, bangrak said:

Sorry 'tgw', but, IMHO, you 'over-simplify' (trusting you are 'genuine', I don't suspect you of 'twisting' the facts). The Austro-Prussians did not lose WW1 'on the battlefield', in fact, on the military side, they were quite close to winning. What brought them towards the 1918 Compiegne Armistice (so humiliating for them it marked the memories so deep Hitler, as a retaliation, had the 1940 French surrender undersigned in the same carriage...), were the living conditions which had become unbearable in the germanic countries, with famine and related diseases spreading fast, unrest followed, a global popular uprise was feared by the Emperors' regimes. 

The overly drastic conditions imposed to the Austrio-Prussians in the 1918 Armistice were, though totally, untenable, creating more internal centrifugal unrest.

Seen in our period, with the relativating factor of time, it 'seems' exactly the same financial and industrial groups, which had, ...acting in perfect understanding, 'organised' WW1, had in 1918 already chosen to go for a next, very profitable, WW!

The 1929, and following years', World financial crisis, wherein many of the same 'players'(!) carried a large responsibility in, finished erasing the little value that was left in the (by then) German Mark.

And it is then that Hitler, and his NAZI theories, gained ground in the empoverished, poor and deprived levels of the population (and also in the middle-, and some upper- class, whether hurt in their pride, and/or seeing profits in the adventure). ...And, not to forget: Hitler's NAZI party became, susbstantial, financial support, and protection, from, from..., from the same 'big guys'.

War in the 1930s, had, IMHO, a lot less support among the British Empire citizens, and even less among the US citizens (leading to the, recently, undisputably confirmed, dirty tricks to force them into it, like the sinking of the Lusitania , ...and Pearl harbour).

The 'Germans' were, in general, deeply hurt in their pride, after having been made losers while not being defeated, and very fed up with injust imposed conditions making a decent life impossible. Whatever we may think about that, that is how, they, felt.

The German(ic) people, in general, were known as hard workers, brave fighters, not shy to make sacrifices for the common good of their nation, ...and prone to gather behind their flag to defend their pride, ...or impose their 'views', over many centuries of History.

Bring the 'ingredients' together, in a shrudely, well managed, ultra-nationalistic 'receipe', with a 'well-oiled', unforgiving, but bloody logical propaganda, and there you have a rather small nation, by the size and numbers, which made the World tremble.

Oh, and mind you, though not 'colonial', there was a great 'territorial hunger', too well played out by the propaganda, the all too famous 'Lebensraum' theory, about 'incorporating' in the country all territories with a German(ic) 'component', with as first proof the 'recuperation' of the Sudet territories, Britain, France and others turned a blind eye on, ...followed by Poland(*) with the Danzig question where ('the abuses against') the German(ic) population group served as the excuse for the invasion, and the start of WW2, 80 years ago.

(* May I add that Britain and France were the guarantors of the Polish independence and sovereignty. Both did, indeed, declare war on Germany at once after the invasion of Poland, but, but, did zilch, zero, nada, nothing else to force Germany back. That while France at the time had the largest modern airforce, had scores of armoured vehicles, the only force with heavy tanks, and the most modern navy. As for Britain, it was a military 'powerhouse', with large forces present on the Continent. ...They both recanted on their oaths. Could Hitler still be stopped? Why was he not when he crossed the Rhine to recuperate the territories 'secured' by British and French? 80 years ago, and still a lot of major pregnant questions unanswered, sometimes even not yet asked, IMHO, because the truth might be very disturbing, devastating, for 'the History written by the victors'', erm, 'inaccuracies...)

Hitler had "territorial hunger" - most Germans though thought about was they could consider "historical Germany":

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsches_Kaiserreich#/media/Datei:Karte_Deutsches_Reich,_Verwaltungsgliederung_1900-01-01.png

[bangrak]

2 minutes ago, bangrak said:

When Poland wanted to join the EU after 1989 and the Germans blocked it, how come Poland is a member of the EU? Actually, IMHO, when so, Germany should have gone on blocking you, knowing now how much you cost to the EU, and what selfish, nationalistic, populist rulers you choose, together making of Poland a liability rather than an asset... Sorry to say. 

Are you and the Poles sharing your views going to, ever, go after Russia (what has really changed there after the USSR, even having today a dictator who was a KGB operative, later leading it)...? Maybe you can succeed in convincing them to compensate your country for all the bad and losses they were responsible for? Maybe, ...like: dream on?

Or are very late, lame, unwilling, excuses enough for having killed out in one large operation nearly all of your intellectual elite, high level officials, and military officers' corps, after being in total denial for over 50 years, always blaming the horrible Germans for it, ...with the support of the US and Britain (leaving at the side the loss of most of your Government and high dignitaries in an airplane crash, never all will be known about, flying to the first 'commemoration' with the Russians...)?

[jondoe18]

47 minutes ago, bangrak said:

When Poland wanted to join the EU after 1989 and the Germans blocked it, how come Poland is a member of the EU? Actually, IMHO, when so, Germany should have gone on blocking you, knowing now how much you cost to the EU, and what selfish, nationalistic, populist rulers you choose, together making of Poland a liability rather than an asset... Sorry to say. 

555

You think they would agree to Poland joining the EU if it was a bad deal for them ?

[jondoe18]

45 minutes ago, bangrak said:

n nearly all of your intellectual elite, high level officials, and military officers' corps

Not nearly all ... only half ... the other half was killed by Germans .

 

Anyway ... the smartest survived
and we want paintings and other <deleted> back ..

Edited September 8, 2019 by jondoe18

[Isaanbiker]

"We know that Europe needs to become stronger and more self-confident," Steinmeier said.

 

"But we also know: Europe should not be strong without America - or even against America. Rather, Europe needs partners.

 

And I'm sure America needs partners in this world too ... So let's take care of this partnership!"

 

More self confident like Thai citizens, perhaps? Europe should not be strong without America?

 

Is that a joke? "And I'm sure America needs partners too?" Let's take care of business, not partnership, right? 

 

   I was born exactly 15 years on the day after the end of WW II and will never forget when I first crossed the border to Holland where some youngish people called me a nazi.

 

I was speechless. 

 

I hate nazis, I hate their symbols and I even hate the Swastika, also when it usually had a totally different meaning for many people around the world.

I've seen Swastikas at a very old Roman therme, called Volubilis in Morocco.

 

A hockey team from Edmonton had it as their symbol, the Finnish Air Force used it on their planes in 1918, but the one the Nazis had chosen can now be found at American flea markets, even Thai students marched in Nazi Uniforms, without even knowing what they actually did. 

 

https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2014/05/23/symbolism-the-swastika/

 

Nobody in my family was for these crooks, but it was very similar to the laws in Thailand that you are not allowed to talk about the monarchy. My grandpa had openly criticised the nazis and almost got killed. 

 

Of course did people then shut up and stopped risking their lives.  

 

Nobody could openly say what they really thought about these wannabe idiots in uniforms. 

 

What really annoys me is when people generalize a whole country and call all of them nazis.

 

I always hated them and I wish that the past had never happened the way it was. 

 

I wasn't even born when these idiots killed countless people. How does that make me to a nazi?  

 

 That Thailand's students didn't know how stupid they behaved is somehow understandable when you know how good their education is. 

 

 Very scary is that more Americans supported Hitler than anybody might think. 

_{^{More Americans Supported Hitler Than You May Think. Here's Why One Expert Thinks That History Isn't Better Known}}

 

  https://time.com/5414055/american-nazi-sympathy-book/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Isaanbiker

[bangrak]

13 hours ago, jondoe18 said:

555

You think they would agree to Poland joining the EU if it was a bad deal for them ?

No doubt having Poland in the EU was a 'good deal', ...for some(!), like a serie of big industrial players from Germany, for instance, but your homecountry(?) undisputably was, and still, is ...a, big, liability for the taxpayers in the EU. Any hope of just a break-even would mean first of all to stop subsidising the ...millions(!) of, totally unviable farms, on poststamp small plots, with 'antique' technical means, and run like in the middle-ages, when you're from there, you see what I mean.

Like in all countries in the World, there are good people, and bad people, in Poland. I'd prefer not to fall into caricatures about Poles, whatever 'experiences' I know well about could lead me to think.

It's good for the Poles to be a proud nation, it would be better when they'd have more reasons to be proud though... 

[bangrak]

14 hours ago, jondoe18 said:

Not nearly all ... only half ... the other half was killed by Germans .

 

Anyway ... the smartest survived
and we want paintings and other <deleted> back ..

Ah, you happen to know the number of members of the Polish elites who were executed by the Russians in 1940 (Katyn...?), and also how many of the same(!) were killed by the Germans during WW2. Then, please, do me the favour to let me know that specific(!) information. Thank you.

(N.B.: allow me to say, the way you have written this reaction has something disturbing for me, just write the same about jews instead of Poles and you'll understand...)

Edited September 9, 2019 by bangrak

[jondoe18]

45 minutes ago, bangrak said:

Any hope of just a break-even would mean first of all to stop subsidising the ...millions

absolutely... eliminate all subsidies for everyone and leave the market open

without monopolies and EU unnecessary blockades
and we will see who will win.

47 minutes ago, bangrak said:

 

It's good for the Poles to be a proud nation, it would be better when they'd have more reasons to be proud though

Do you know that Poland assimilates all races and religions very well today
,there is something in the culture and hundreds of years of experience in this field.

 

Meanwhile, there are burning ghettos of unemployed immigrants in

Western countries who even in the third generation do not speak

the local language.

 

Do you know that homosexuality has never been a crime in Poland
while in Western countries people were locked behind bars for that
even in the second half of the 20th century

[jondoe18]

34 minutes ago, bangrak said:

Ah, you happen to know the number of members of the Polish elites who were executed by the Russians in 1940 (Katyn...?), and also how many of the same(!) were killed by the Germans during WW2. Then, please, do me the favour to let me know that specific(!) information. Thank you.

(N.B.: allow me to say, the way you have written this reaction has something disturbing for me, just write the same about jews instead of Poles and you'll understand...)

6 million people with a Polish passport have died during WWII

at German hands (3 million Jews and 3 million other religions)
and the next millions were forced laborers who survived only because

Germans ran out of time.

 

Katyn ... what difference does it make ???

[Sujo]

Oh for the love of...whoever.

 

Bad things happened near a century ago. Things have changed. 

 

Move on and stop blaming everyone else.

 

 

[bangrak]

1 hour ago, jondoe18 said:

6 million people with a Polish passport have died during WWII

at German hands (3 million Jews and 3 million other religions)
and the next millions were forced laborers who survived only because

Germans ran out of time.

 

Katyn ... what difference does it make ???

When Katyn does not make a 'difference' for you, I am sure you would also not being interested by a wider publication of some historical facts you do, but many don't at all, know about:

 

As this article is about the 80th anniversary of the invasion of Poland, I would have expected, by now, 80 years later, not only the bad Nazi Germans of yore would be pointed a finger at, but, that at last, while 'History is written by the victors', and Sovjet Russia was one of the WW2 victors, it would be more widely 'described' that the invasion and 50/50 division of Poland had already been agreed between Germany and Russia well before, and that the Russian armies did also indeed invade Poland, just days after the Germans, Russia and Germany each occupying half of the territories previously under Polish ruling, just weeks later...

(But that 'oddly' nor Britain nor France found it necessary at the time to declare war on the USSR...)

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by bangrak

[bangrak]

13 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Oh for the love of...whoever.

 

Bad things happened near a century ago. Things have changed. 

 

Move on and stop blaming everyone else.

 

 

People ignoring the past cannot prepare for the future...

[jondoe18]

11 minutes ago, bangrak said:

e invasion and 50/50 division of Poland had already been agreed between Germany and Russia well before, and that the Russian armies did also indeed invade Poland, just days after the Germans, Russia and Germany each occupying half of the territories previously under Polish ruling, just weeks later

Everyone in Poland knows about it .

 

What is unknown is that Hitler wanted Poland to join him

in the war with the Soviet Union and until March 1939 he was

"quite polite" towards Poles.
When in March he got a definitive answer from Poland .. NO .
Then his absolute hatred for Poland and Poles began.

 

And bangrak hide your western superiority in your shoes !
The world has stopped treating genocides, mass robberies
and wholesale opium trade as a great achievement.  

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Sujo said:

Oh for the love of...whoever.

 

Bad things happened near a century ago. Things have changed. 

 

Move on and stop blaming everyone else.

 

 

 

Some people who lived during these times still around. The next generation was probably effected one way or another, and to a lesser extent things were passed on to the following generation. Wishing for all of the negative feelings to go away is neither fair nor realistic.

 

It's kinda amusing how some posters express opposite position with regard to similar instance elsewhere.

[kingdong]

for evil to triumph it only

Requires good men to do nothing.

[alan grice]

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[jondoe18]

42 minutes ago, alan grice said:

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

The Federal Intelligence Service BND works hard to rewrite history

to be beneficial to Germans despite the passage of decades.
Somehow, BND don't think it's been a long time and it's not important .

...hmmm

[bangrak]

4 hours ago, jondoe18 said:

Everyone in Poland knows about it .

 

What is unknown is that Hitler wanted Poland to join him

in the war with the Soviet Union and until March 1939 he was

"quite polite" towards Poles.
When in March he got a definitive answer from Poland .. NO .
Then his absolute hatred for Poland and Poles began.

 

And bangrak hide your western superiority in your shoes !
The world has stopped treating genocides, mass robberies
and wholesale opium trade as a great achievement.  

Please 'jondoe18' don't resort to vain insults, like in your last paragraph! I don't and won't, and when I have a different opinion from yours, I just tell and explain.

As for your, IMHO illusion, that Nazi Germany had any liking, even any respect, towards Poland, I'm sorry to contradict you, none such, at the time, already, the usual 'formulation' was: 'Slaven sind Sklaven', to what contra-productive extremes this may have then led, a visit from envoy Göring to Romania, where he treated the Romanians as trash, is a good example of, ...while they were proposing to bring a very large number (up to 1 million?) of men to fight at the side of the Nazis against the Sovjets.

The main interests from the Nazis in Poland were: the coal mines, the Baltic coast, ...and slave workers, sorry to say.

The deals with Sovjet Russia were by then already made, however 'polite' the Nazis might at the time been towards Poland, ...as towards quite some other countries, like Britain.

[jondoe18]

1 hour ago, bangrak said:

As for your, IMHO illusion, that Nazi Germany had any liking, even any respect, towards Poland, I'm sorry to contradict you, none such, at the time, already, the usual 'formulation' was: 'Slaven sind Sklaven

You know that the Ribbentrop Molotov Pact was signed with the most

hated communist Slavic "state" and there was a wonderful friendship

for 2 years... so you contradict yourself.

Of course, it was about agreeing to be a vassal country
in the bloodbath and genocide in the east but such efforts

on the part of Hitler were.

 

Don't have to be a genius to know and understand
that if Poland agreed, Hitler would conquer Moscow..

and he know it too.

Edited September 9, 2019 by jondoe18