Blood on his hands: 2020 Democrats slam Trump over Syria

[ballpoint]

Just now, stevenl said:

Is this for real? This is primary school work <deleted>.

It's real.  Google 'Trump letter Turkey' for dozens of reports.  And it seems he's proud of it.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/16/trump-letter-warned-turkeys-erdogan-against-syria-offensive.html

[howbri]

At least it's not American blood where America has no vital interest. Good move Donald.

[Sujo]

4 minutes ago, howbri said:

At least it's not American blood where America has no vital interest. Good move Donald.

Yeah, coz isis are no threat to US at all.

[IAMHERE]

Turkey has been an ally of the USA for a very long time. I remember US missiles in Turkey being part of the Negotiations between Kennedy and Khrushchev.  I wouldn't want to be one of the more than 50 service personnel serving at Incirlik Air Base.

[jcsmith]

22 hours ago, illiterate said:

Tax dollars are being saved and fewer Americans are dying and/or in danger. 

Actually no. ISIS fighters have escaped. Assad, Putin, and Erdogan (three bad guys) just gained full control of Syria. That makes the world a more dangerous place.

[quandow]

19 hours ago, howbri said:

At least it's not American blood where America has no vital interest. Good move Donald.

Is that a joke? With no U.S. presence in Syria, Turkey now has a direct path, with the help of Iran and Russia, to get serious weaponry to put Israel down. Oh, and Turkey has 50 nuclear missiles on its property, courtesy of the U.S.  This was a horrible decision, probably the worst so far, but unless Trump gets impeached and removed, he still has time to make even WORSE decisions. Yay Team America!

[TopDeadSenter]

20 hours ago, Sujo said:

Yeah, coz isis are no threat to US at all.

Half true. ISIS were not a threat until a certain somebody funded and armed them hoping they would take out Assad. Thanks to his actions it is estimated up to 500,000 people died, Europe was over-run, Britain panicked and voted for Brexit, North Europe is in dire straits, but he got some impressive awards for his dastardly deeds. 

 Trump had the right idea about Isis/Syria/islamic terrorists. Just leave them where they are, in their home countries in the ME. And do not let them into the US. Achieved by whacking up a great southern wall and giving no visas to these "unpleasant" countries. Job done! Sadly this didn't suit the democrats who seemingly wanted more overseas military invasions. 

 But I don't believe this is the point you were trying to make?

[Jingthing]

Romney is suggesting that Erdogan may have told 45 that he would invade whether the US pulled the American troops or not. This needs to be investigated. Did a weak paper tiger American president cave to threats from a much smaller power? It's a fair and important question and it's coming from a fellow republican!

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Half true. ISIS were not a threat until a certain somebody funded and armed them hoping they would take out Assad. Thanks to his actions it is estimated up to 500,000 people died, Europe was over-run, Britain panicked and voted for Brexit, North Europe is in dire straits, but he got some impressive awards for his dastardly deeds. 

 Trump had the right idea about Isis/Syria/islamic terrorists. Just leave them where they are, in their home countries in the ME. And do not let them into the US. Achieved by whacking up a great southern wall and giving no visas to these "unpleasant" countries. Job done! Sadly this didn't suit the democrats who seemingly wanted more overseas military invasions. 

 But I don't believe this is the point you were trying to make?

Yes, SA and Qatar are well known sponsors of Isis. But mkost of their finances did not come from donations.

 

Your contention it was the USA under Obama that did this is simply not true, see e.g. Wikipedia here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finances_of_ISIL.

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Romney is suggesting that Erdogan may have told 45 that he would invade whether the US pulled the American troops or not. This needs to be investigated. Did a weak paper tiger American president cave to threats from a much smaller power? It's a fair and important question and it's coming from a fellow republican!

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

That has been my contention already for quite a few days now, glad to hear Romney is listening to me ????

[Becker]

Link: Polls show Americans have come to support Trump's impeachment much faster than Nixon's or Clinton’s

 

"For the first time, a majority of Americans said this week that they supported the impeachment of President Trump. Not just in one, outlying poll — in an average of all current national polls compiled by the data journalists at FiveThirtyEight.

Trump hasn’t just crossed the 50 percent threshold on impeachment, peaking at 50.3 percent earlier this week. He’s gotten there faster than Richard Nixon — and, for that matter, Bill Clinton, who never got there at all."

[55Jay]

22 hours ago, rhyddid said:

US initially created all the mess in middle east, now they say its not their war.  Who can still trust US ?

 

Quote

British and French representatives, Sir Mark Sykes and Francois Georges Picot, believed that the Arab people were better off under European empires and divided up the region with a ruler, and without Arab knowledge.

 

The two men created uncomplicated, immaculate straight-line borders that would cater to the needs of Britain and France. However, these borders "did not correspond to sectarian, tribal or ethnic distinctions on the ground," and failed to allow for future growth of Arab nationalism and secularism. 

 

"Even by the standards of the time, it was a shamelessly self-interested pact,"

https://www.mic.com/articles/91071/how-the-british-screwed-up-the-middle-east-in-10-classic-cartoons

[spidermike007]

On 10/16/2019 at 6:35 PM, SOTIRIOS said:

...a couple of good...revealing videos to be found online...

 

...one...showing doctored footage from a firing range...being passed as 'proof of a massacre'...

 

...another....showing alleged body bag victims...moving and squirming around...

 

***

 

...the scum that control the media.....will never stop....

 

...fake stories....treasonous.....

 

....that is the truth...

 

***

 

.....corruption of the highest order....working to hide the unprecedented level of corruption.....

 

...of the past administration.....and the scummy remnants.....

 

***

 

....hope people can wake up......and put an end to this ceaseless charade against POTUS....

 

 

 

 

Respect should never be freely given. It should be earned. He has done little to earn the respect of men and women worldwide. Now, if his fate was not already sealed, he has shot himself in the foot one final time, with this betrayal, and by allowing a genocide, of which he alone will bear the brunt of the responsibility for, along with Turkey. It will not be the first genocide, committed by Turkey. 

 

Trump got played once again. First he gets played by Putin, who made him his lapdog. Then he got played by Kim, who with some chocolates, and a few well placed compliments, got Don Donald to completely back off on any pressure to stop their nuclear weapons program, and declare their love affair with each other. Kim was laughing all the way. Then he got played by MBS. Now, he gets played by Erdogan, and gave him exactly what he wanted.

 

And you are asking us to wake up? We are awakened by the gross incompetence, lack of intelligence, and stunning lack of vision this man displays. The congress is also awakened, and will continue coming after him, with their totally legitimate investigations, and impeachment proceedings. He should not only be forced from office, he should be locked up. And hopefully, once he loses the election in 13 months, in a rather dramatic and humiliating fashion, he will be held to account, for his lifetime of crime.

[Opl]

10 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

 

https://www.mic.com/articles/91071/how-the-british-screwed-up-the-middle-east-in-10-classic-cartoons

"The Kurds were the big losers of the Sykes-Picot Agreement. Their historic homeland was divided up between Iran, Syria, Turkey and Iraq, and it remains a source of enduring bitterness. "

Syria and the new lines in the sand &nbsp;BBC Interview

 

[illiterate]

On 10/17/2019 at 8:30 AM, DoctorG said:

There are members of both parties who are warmongers/beholden to the military manufacturing regime.

Of course there are! That is the point, both sides only cater to the rich and powerful, and the country (and things like wars) is run accordingly. In fact, I would argue dems are worse. But, that is beside the point.

 

How can we stop warmonger proliferators from wasting tax dollars, and creating more enemies for us while they do it? Simple, elect candidates who do not accept pac money, as i said previously. 

 

This is the next big step Americans need to take. It will be better than a revolution, because it is change for the better without bloodshed. So simple too. 

[KKr]

On 10/17/2019 at 6:56 AM, legend49 said:

And Donnys new Trump hotel is safe in Turkey.

Is there a transcript of the phone call with Erdogan just before The D announcing this beautiful decision re Syria ?

[Sujo]

8 minutes ago, KKr said:

Is there a transcript of the phone call with Erdogan just before The D announcing this beautiful decision re Syria ?

Of course there is. Trump just needs to be transparent and release it.

 

he did say he was transparent didnt he?

 

i doubt the US allies the kurds who fought isis and lost thousands of lives doing it would agree it was a beautiful decision to withdraw.

 

you do also know the troops from there didnt actually come home, like trump said, but were sent to iraq?

[Crazy Alex]

So it's official: the Democrat party is the party of war.

 

Me? I'm glad our people are out of Syria. It's a regional war of regime change. We should have never been there to start with.

 

[terminalmadness]

On 10/16/2019 at 11:56 PM, legend49 said:

And Donnys new Trump hotel is safe in Turkey.

Mr. Trump does not own a hotel in Turkey.

[KKr]

2 hours ago, Sujo said:

Of course there is. Trump just needs to be transparent and release it.

 

he did say he was transparent didnt he?

 

i doubt the US allies the kurds who fought isis and lost thousands of lives doing it would agree it was a beautiful decision to withdraw.

 

you do also know the troops from there didnt actually come home, like trump said, but were sent to iraq?

"beautiful" as it is unique, albeit in shortsightedness, malfeasance and contempt.

Also, the number of troops was rather small as I understand, yet enough to perform an effective peace keeping role apparently.

Really wonder what was discussed between Messrs Erdogan and Trump.
Don't even want to speculate on that, and rather wait for professional analysts' opinion or facts.

[sirineou]

11 minutes ago, KKr said:

"beautiful" as it is unique, albeit in shortsightedness, malfeasance and contempt.

Also, the number of troops was rather small as I understand, yet enough to perform an effective peace keeping role apparently.

Really wonder what was discussed between Messrs Erdogan and Trump.
Don't even want to speculate on that, and rather wait for professional analysts' opinion or facts.

The fact is that he did not bring the troops home like he said but moved the out of Turkeys way, Two options remain, he coordinated with Erdogan or he run away .

[KKr]

12 hours ago, sirineou said:

The fact is that he did not bring the troops home like he said but moved the out of Turkeys way, Two options remain, he coordinated with Erdogan or he run away .

Well, I guess DT wants to be advertising bringing troops back as heroes, in case he will be eligible to run in the coming election. Running away does not look like a hero's image.
imho that leaves as an option: collusion with Turkey to infringe upon / occupy Syria's territory and to do with the Kurds as they please.
(and maybe sell some more arms and planes to Turkey, build a Golf resort, not have his properties closed or demolished because of a dripping tap in the fire extinguishing system or a comma on the wrong spot in the permit, who knows.)

[bristolboy]

15 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

So it's official: the Democrat party is the party of war.

 

Me? I'm glad our people are out of Syria. It's a regional war of regime change. We should have never been there to start with.

 

Still glad?

U.S. Sends Forces to Protect Syrian Oil Fields

The U.S. military sent fresh forces on Saturday to secure oil fields in eastern Syria, two U.S. officials said, as part of a pivot from a decision earlier this month to pull most American troops out of the country.

The movement of troops back into Syrian positions reflects a desire by Washington to preserve some leverage in the region, as Russian and Syrian forces have also moved in, filling a vacuum in areas once under U.S. influence.

Footage of a U.S. military convoy entering Syria from Iraq was released by the Iraqi Kurdish channel Rudaw.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-sends-forces-to-protect-syrian-oil-fields-11572107568

After Betraying the Kurds, the U.S. Isn’t Leaving Syria After All

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a U.K.-based monitoring organization, has reported and posted photos of at least two convoys of U.S. military forces entering eastern Syria from Iraq, roughly three weeks after President Donald Trump ordered the withdrawal of all U.S. forces from the region. According to the report, at least 500 troops have returned to the area near Tal Tamr, which they withdrew from just a week ago.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/kurds-betrayal-troops-return-syria-oil.html

[KKr]

18 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Still glad?

U.S. Sends Forces to Protect Syrian Oil Fields

.... ....

After Betraying the Kurds, the U.S. Isn’t Leaving Syria After All

.... ....

US has been in the Gulf to protect oil supply, and chances that they will leave are small.

but it is worrying that the knee-jerk meandering seems to indicate that the left hand does neither know nor understand what the right hand is doing ... and, moreover, that some decisions are not taken after careful consideration and objectively assessing the impact on the overall situation.

about time a real commander in chief is put in charge of strategy, and earns respect for balancing the various parties involved based on a long term view of what is best for the region.
(not on a subjective view, or even worse a personal business interest, that is conflicting with the common interest of bringing peace, an interest that seems to have been neglected for as long as I can remember.)

end of rant.
 

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, KKr said:

US has been in the Gulf to protect oil supply, and chances that they will leave are small.

but it is worrying that the knee-jerk meandering seems to indicate that the left hand does neither know nor understand what the right hand is doing ... and, moreover, that some decisions are not taken after careful consideration and objectively assessing the impact on the overall situation.

about time a real commander in chief is put in charge of strategy, and earns respect for balancing the various parties involved based on a long term view of what is best for the region.
(not on a subjective view, or even worse a personal business interest, that is conflicting with the common interest of bringing peace, an interest that seems to have been neglected for as long as I can remember.)

end of rant.
 

Actually, in this case the oil issue was a scam perpetrated by the military and others to convince Trump to go back into Syria. The amounts of oil are small and its quality is poor. And no western oil company is going to illegally start extracting from Syria. But it does feed into Trump's ignorant fantasies about keeping the oil.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[Crazy Alex]

7 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Still glad?

U.S. Sends Forces to Protect Syrian Oil Fields

The U.S. military sent fresh forces on Saturday to secure oil fields in eastern Syria, two U.S. officials said, as part of a pivot from a decision earlier this month to pull most American troops out of the country.

The movement of troops back into Syrian positions reflects a desire by Washington to preserve some leverage in the region, as Russian and Syrian forces have also moved in, filling a vacuum in areas once under U.S. influence.

Footage of a U.S. military convoy entering Syria from Iraq was released by the Iraqi Kurdish channel Rudaw.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-sends-forces-to-protect-syrian-oil-fields-11572107568

After Betraying the Kurds, the U.S. Isn’t Leaving Syria After All

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a U.K.-based monitoring organization, has reported and posted photos of at least two convoys of U.S. military forces entering eastern Syria from Iraq, roughly three weeks after President Donald Trump ordered the withdrawal of all U.S. forces from the region. According to the report, at least 500 troops have returned to the area near Tal Tamr, which they withdrew from just a week ago.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/kurds-betrayal-troops-return-syria-oil.html

No, I'm disappointed. We should have gotten out of Syria on day one.

[bristolboy]

Guess the identity of a certain ignoramus who said the following to justify American troops return to Syria: 

 

"Some troops, he announced last week, would be returning to the country. But not to support those Kurdish allies, so vital in the US-led coalition's battle against Isis, but to "secure the oil," he repeated on Monday... 

“What I intend to do, perhaps, is make a deal with an ExxonMobil or one of our great companies to go in there and do it properly,” Trump said on Sunday."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-syria-oil-us-companies-middle-east-war-resources-a9175266.html

 

 

 

[Eric Loh]

14 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

No, I'm disappointed. We should have gotten out of Syria on day one.

Russia, Assad and ISIL agree with you. 

[KKr]

4 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Guess the identity of a certain ignoramus who said the following to justify American troops return to Syria: 

 

"Some troops, he announced last week, would be returning to the country. But not to support those Kurdish allies, so vital in the US-led coalition's battle against Isis, but to "secure the oil," he repeated on Monday... 

“What I intend to do, perhaps, is make a deal with an ExxonMobil or one of our great companies to go in there and do it properly,” Trump said on Sunday."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-syria-oil-us-companies-middle-east-war-resources-a9175266.html

for as long as I remember, US has been working on ensuring stable oil supply.
For themselves, and we have to admit others benefitted as well, and did not object at all.

from the time of discovery of oil in the sandy deserts, in my perspective, a divide and rule policy has been in place.
Then, with the first oil crisis (was that about 50 years ago already?) the tide started turning, and instead of pre-empting the fragmentation, to me it seems the policies were directed at keeping the oil producing countries divided.
Goal: access to (cheaper than domestically produced) crude oil.

But as you pointed out already, currently Syria does not have a big crude production, some 30.000 bpd. which is between 5 and 10 % of pre-war output of 380.000 what in current listings would be about 30th place. Instead, Syria is now ranked 59 in list of producers. (alongside Ivory Coast, almost as much as Ukraine or New Zealand)

As for Syrian oil, India and China were and are invested, and as far as I know Anglo-Dutch Shell and French Total left about 8 years ago as did Exxon even earlier.

Apparently, there is an agreement that states:
In accordance with an energy cooperation framework agreement signed in late January (2018), Russia will have exclusive rights to produce oil and gas in Syria. ( https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Russia-Is-Taking-Over-Syrias-Oil-And-Gas.html )

So why Exxon-Mobil would now want to come back to Syria?
(as Mr. T, let me rephrase that I don't want to insult anyone)
While as usual not talking about what other people agreed and expecting others to turn on their allies just as the Great-USofA under the present leadership seems to be doing, the present Prez said:
""
“What I intend to do, perhaps, is make a deal with an ExxonMobil or one of our great companies to go in there and do it properly,” Trump said on Sunday."  
""
In other words, the great President d DT suggests they could make a deal with him (sic.)
In doing so, he seems to be assuming to be above the Law and above Assad and Russia, India and China.
I Say, DT makes an agreement with Exxon concerning, in and for another country! 
Well that must be all right then, if he says so. What will we do there:

Repairing the huge damage (as it happens by great ordinance from various great suppliers) done to the oil infrastructure, and
then claim a great feat of creating a great oil production of tenfold the historical during the war time 
(yet much lower then the peak of 677.000 bpd ? ) ! 
This of course with a proviso that the repairs and replacements do not get blown up after the work.

Any Great company with some 50 billion plus USD cash at hand can do that, provided they get the future cash flow.
to achieve this, one needs to be Great, but not necessarily American or a Great tweeter.

If not for oil, then why control Syria?
(which Russia effectively is achieving, the earlier mentioned agreement supports that theory ) 
to have a foothold in the center of the area, a bigger say in the Eastern Mediterranean, 
next to Iraq, not too far from Iran, control pipelines into Europe, 

and possibly for buffering other friendly territories (which, depending on the party gaining most influence) as well.

In that context, to give up control over Northern Syria in exchange for military bases is something I could understand.
(but to let Kurdish Allies walk the plank, I don't.)

Then, is USA a net Energy Exporter as headlines tried to tell ?  
No, it is not. As before, as an importer they benefit from lower prices.
An analysis of the factual situation here:.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/12/09/no-the-u-s-is-not-a-net-exporter-of-crude-oil/#7fbdfeb44ac1