15 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

I watch clips from various media outlets because I know all media sources are biased. A person who sticks to one source isn't going to have a good grasp of any given issue. Simple fact.

 

But let's do the obvious thing and apply MSNBC versus Fox News to the upcoming US presidential election. Historically, Americans vote with their wallets. Clearly, various statistics on the economy, such as GDP and unemployment rates favor Donald Trump.

 

So obviously, a leftist news source like MSNBC is going to try to tell us how bad the economy is.

Historical data is not including how low the approval rating of this presidency is dealing with.

Sure - Look at the GINI index which is a  measure of wealth disparity. The wealthier are getting wealthier - that is very clear and the benefits of the long economic expansion has gone mostly to the wealthy.
 
Look at real wage growth over time and compare that to the wealth of the top 1%,10% and 30%.  Real wage growth is pretty static. 
 
 

People that invest in the market benefit when the market does well.

Contrary to popular belief, the rich generally do not get richer at the expense of the poor.

Unemployment is down and the labor force participation rate is up.

The gap I find more concerning is the growing wage/benefit disparity between private and public sector. When the public sector earns more than the private sector, the public sector is absolutely getting rich on the backs of the poor.

It is worth noting that the same people that pretend to care about the working poor, want to continue an open boarders policy that allows millions of low and no skilled workers to compete in the same job market, and compete for the same public benefits.

While I think a good argument can be made that REAL wages should be static, just looking at an average does not paint the full picture. It’s been my experience that when unemployment is low, it’s the bottom wage earners and new-hires that benefit the most.

"record low unemployment rate, subdued inflation and only moderately cooler wage growth," 

 

Fascinating spin. Yes, there is a low unemployment rate. But, are the people getting the kinds of jobs they really want, at the wages they are accustomed to earning? Wages are rising at a level far below inflation. Which brings us to the inflation discussion. It is astonishing how much the cost of living is rising in the US. Everyone I know is talking about it. And yet, the government is coming out with these lame numbers like 2-3% annual rises. Total BS. Politically motivated BS. Always has been, no matter which party. Housing costs are soaring. Is that even taken into account? Food prices are rising. I am in the US now, and the cost of living is astonishingly high. Moderately cooler wage growth? What wage growth? Only the people in the top 6-10% are really benefiting from all of this. They are doing very well. The rest? They rest are struggling. 60-70% of all Americans only have between one and three months wages as savings, and are fairly close to catastrophe, if they lost their jobs. The swelling homeless population in the US is testament to that. Believe the feds at your own peril. I see consumer confidence as being very low. People are spending on certain things, but not others. The public is afraid. 

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

"record low unemployment rate, subdued inflation and only moderately cooler wage growth," 

 

Fascinating spin. Yes, there is a low unemployment rate. But, are the people getting the kinds of jobs they really want, at the wages they are accustomed to earning? Wages are rising at a level far below inflation. Which brings us to the inflation discussion. It is astonishing how much the cost of living is rising in the US. Everyone I know is talking about it. And yet, the government is coming out with these lame numbers like 2-3% annual rises. Total BS. Politically motivated BS. Always has been, no matter which party. Housing costs are soaring. Is that even taken into account? Food prices are rising. I am in the US now, and the cost of living is astonishingly high. Moderately cooler wage growth? What wage growth? Only the people in the top 6-10% are really benefiting from all of this. They are doing very well. The rest? They rest are struggling. 60-70% of all Americans only have between one and three months wages as savings, and are fairly close to catastrophe, if they lost their jobs. The swelling homeless population in the US is testament to that. Believe the feds at your own peril. I see consumer confidence as being very low. People are spending on certain things, but not others. The public is afraid. 

 

Actually, lower end income earners are seeing their incomes rise faster than higher income earners:

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/13/workers-at-lower-end-of-pay-scale-getting-most-benefit-from-rising-wages.html

 

Consumer confidence isn't very low. In fact, it is higher now than when Trump took office and higher than at any point during the Obama regime's reign.

 

https://www.investing.com/economic-calendar/cb-consumer-confidence-48

 

Pay has steadily increased during Trump's administration as well:

 

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/06/are-wages-rising-or-flat/

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 20196 yr by Crazy Alex

"record low unemployment rate, subdued inflation and only moderately cooler wage growth," 
 
Fascinating spin. Yes, there is a low unemployment rate. But, are the people getting the kinds of jobs they really want, at the wages they are accustomed to earning? Wages are rising at a level far below inflation. Which brings us to the inflation discussion. It is astonishing how much the cost of living is rising in the US. Everyone I know is talking about it. And yet, the government is coming out with these lame numbers like 2-3% annual rises. Total BS. Politically motivated BS. Always has been, no matter which party. Housing costs are soaring. Is that even taken into account? Food prices are rising. I am in the US now, and the cost of living is astonishingly high. Moderately cooler wage growth? What wage growth? Only the people in the top 6-10% are really benefiting from all of this. They are doing very well. The rest? They rest are struggling. 60-70% of all Americans only have between one and three months wages as savings, and are fairly close to catastrophe, if they lost their jobs. The swelling homeless population in the US is testament to that. Believe the feds at your own peril. I see consumer confidence as being very low. People are spending on certain things, but not others. The public is afraid. 

Not sure I remember a time when people generally got the jobs they wanted.

I believe entry level wages have gone up significantly in the last few years, while higher wages are more stagnant, which skews the numbers significantly.

Sure, the top 6-10% are making bank, but much of that is from investments. The last year I worked the growth of my 401k was greater than the wages I earned.

While I agree the inflation rate is suspect, I go back to the US a couple time a year and the people I know seem to have more <deleted> than ever. Home prices everywhere are not skyrocketing.

The people that have no savings would have no savings regardless of what they earn. I’ve seen this my whole life. No shortage of people making long money that spend every penny, and plenty of low income people that do save their money. In any event, once the shame of collecting public assistance is removed, there is no real need to save money. Once we get basic income after the next election, even fewer people will save money.

As far as the homeless issue, while I’m sure any “investigative reporter” worth their salt can find a few unfortunate families that have fallen through the cracks, by and large the homeless issue has little or nothing to do with the economy.

I know a time when the deficit wasnt so high. I thought repubs hated high deficit.

I know a time when the deficit wasnt so high. I thought repubs hated high deficit.

Yes, this whole deficit thing started with Trump’s tax cuts.

On 10/25/2019 at 8:50 AM, Nyezhov said:

The accountant tells me whether the economy is good or not. When the accountant isnt bitchin, its good. When the other accountants aint bitchin, its good.

My wallet tells me

7 minutes ago, RideJocky said:

 

Yes, this whole deficit thing started with Trump’s tax cuts.

 

It sure went into turbo drive. Did u forget his election promise?

It sure went into turbo drive. Did u forget his election promise?

Did it? Have you seen a chart of the last 10-20 years of deficit spending?

Doesn’t look like it has gone into “turbo” since Trump took office.

But yes, I would rather he wasn’t spending like a leftist.

6 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

 

Actually, lower end income earners are seeing their incomes rise faster than higher income earners:

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/13/workers-at-lower-end-of-pay-scale-getting-most-benefit-from-rising-wages.html

 

Consumer confidence isn't very low. In fact, it is higher now than when Trump took office and higher than at any point during the Obama regime's reign.

 

https://www.investing.com/economic-calendar/cb-consumer-confidence-48

 

Pay has steadily increased during Trump's administration as well:

 

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/06/are-wages-rising-or-flat/

 

 

 

 

Again you are quoting federal government sources, rather than talking to people in the US, as I do every day I am there. It is a completely different story, than the one fabricated by Washington. And yes, wages for lower income people have gone up, By 1%! Wow. They started climbing under Obama, and continued for the past two years. By 1%. Inflation is rampant. The charts are total BS. Talk to anyone in the US. Talk to anyone. Stop citing charts. They are utterly meaningless.

3 hours ago, Sujo said:

I know a time when the deficit wasnt so high. I thought repubs hated high deficit.

Trump is spending money like a drunken sailor. He makes Obama look thrifty. And of course Clinton put him to shame, with his fiscal austerity and nearly balanced budget, something Trump could only dream about, if he had the vision to dream of actually improving the nation and the well being of Americans. 

Both fake news. I can't bear the agendas of either. Fox at least makes me laugh at it's simple minded idiocy and how it panders to old people and oldthink. Fox has pretty girls, legs, tits. My 90 yo parents watch it.  Rachel Maddie's makes my skin crawl. <deleted> I hate the woke agenda. Anything woke I reject in totality.

Near all of the non US economic interpretations of the US suggest that while unemployment has slightly  decreased lower and middle income earnings are way behind inflationary cost of living.

Spin is  spin and  up to those  who wish to   turn in the direction they think correct.

3 hours ago, RideJocky said:

 

Did it? Have you seen a chart of the last 10-20 years of deficit spending?

Doesn’t look like it has gone into “turbo” since Trump took office.

But yes, I would rather he wasn’t spending like a leftist.

 

During a depression or bad recession, like the one that began in 2008, you're supposed to be running big deficits in order to stimulate the economy. But when the economy is getting stronger and stronger deficits should be cut back. Which is what happened during the later years of the Obama administration. Under Trump the deficits have surged again.

Federal deficit increases 26% to $984 billion for fiscal 2019, highest in 7 years

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/25/federal-deficit-increases-26percent-to-984-billion-for-fiscal-2019.html

>while unemployment has slightly  decreased lower and middle income earnings are way behind inflationary cost of living.

 

Who cold have imagined that 40 million immigrants turning up in a country, competing for jobs might decrease wages.

Who knew.

 

Its almost as if Supply and Demand is a real thing!

During a depression or bad recession, like the one that began in 2008, you're supposed to be running big deficits in order to stimulate the economy. But when the economy is getting stronger and stronger deficits should be cut back. Which is what happened during the later years of the Obama administration. Under Trump the deficits have surged again.
Federal deficit increases 26% to $984 billion for fiscal 2019, highest in 7 years
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/25/federal-deficit-increases-26percent-to-984-billion-for-fiscal-2019.html

I agree spending is out of control and needs to be reigned in, and Trump has done a lousy job of it.

What I don’t agree with is that it’s suddenly been turbo-charged.

Where do you think he should start cutting?

Again you are quoting federal government sources, rather than talking to people in the US, as I do every day I am there. It is a completely different story, than the one fabricated by Washington. And yes, wages for lower income people have gone up, By 1%! Wow. They started climbing under Obama, and continued for the past two years. By 1%. Inflation is rampant. The charts are total BS. Talk to anyone in the US. Talk to anyone. Stop citing charts. They are utterly meaningless.

Yes, we all know anecdotal information is much more accurate than government statistics.

How many people, in how many areas and from how many walks of life do you talk to?

10 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Again you are quoting federal government sources, rather than talking to people in the US, as I do every day I am there. It is a completely different story, than the one fabricated by Washington. And yes, wages for lower income people have gone up, By 1%! Wow. They started climbing under Obama, and continued for the past two years. By 1%. Inflation is rampant. The charts are total BS. Talk to anyone in the US. Talk to anyone. Stop citing charts. They are utterly meaningless.

 

OK, so you've talked to some people and they just happen to have been tracking wages for lower income people? I find that incredibly difficult to believe.

10 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Talk to anyone in the US. Talk to anyone. Stop citing charts. They are utterly meaningless.

OK. lets talk to me? Me, you are a USA dude, are low income folks wages going up? Well I know what the charts say, but from personal experience, we used to pay entry level laborers $10 an hour, now we cant touch one for less then $15. And the big companies are offering $17, but thats fer guys without a felony conviction. The little guys get those. At $15. If you can find them.

I did some consulting for a plant in Chattanooga last year. They had to increase starting wages from about $9 to $14 over about six months.

They were hiring virtually everyone that walked through the door, and half the people would not show up the first day.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

2 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

 

OK, so you've talked to some people and they just happen to have been tracking wages for lower income people? I find that incredibly difficult to believe.

Here for once I have to agree with you about the value of anecdotal evidence for SpiderMike.. It's zilch because it's not corroboratable. Neither are the posts of Nyezhov and RideJocky. And even if you could prove they were true, they would still be statistically insignificant.

14 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Near all of the non US economic interpretations of the US suggest that while unemployment has slightly  decreased lower and middle income earnings are way behind inflationary cost of living.

Spin is  spin and  up to those  who wish to   turn in the direction they think correct.

Absolutely correct. The quality of life is dramatically declining for the average American.

Absolutely correct. The quality of life is dramatically declining for the average American.

What does the average American not have now that they had 10-20 years ago?

Mortgage rates and inflation are low.

My portfolio is up over 16% this year.

Income taxes were reduced a few years ago.

Hey, whatever I am happy.

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Absolutely correct. The quality of life is dramatically declining for the average American.

One of the most false uneducated comments I have read.  

Are you an extreme liberal?

 

 

 

 

One of the most false uneducated comments I have read.  
Are you an extreme liberal?
 
 
 
 

Yes, it’s pretty much the left that are unhappy, but they’re always unhappy.

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Absolutely correct. The quality of life is dramatically declining for the average American.

28 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

One of the most false uneducated comments I have read.  

Are you an extreme liberal?

 

 

 

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/database/indicator/74/

 

24 minutes ago, RideJocky said:

 

Yes, it’s pretty much the left that are unhappy, but they’re always unhappy.

 

Thats because philosophically, the left must see all the sins of mankind as structural to the existing order. That of course justifies the left's ultimate goal of the destruction of the existing order, in order to remake society under new, "moral" principles. Principles that the left defines and imposes, although the left itelf is little more than a Vanguard of power hungry elitists, fellow travelers and useful idiots as opposed to a mass movement.  

Edited October 27, 20196 yr by Nyezhov

3 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Thats because philosophically, the left must see all the sins of mankind as structural to the existing order. That of course justifies the left's ultimate goal of the destruction of the existing order, in order to remake society under new, "moral" principles. Principles that the left defines and imposes, although the left itelf is little more than a Vanguard of power hungry elitists, fellow travelers and useful idiots as opposed to a mass movement.  

More of the same trite bogeyman claims about the left.