Hong Kong braces for Halloween havoc as protesters target party district

[snoop1130]

Hong Kong braces for Halloween havoc as protesters target party district

By Farah Master, Nick Macfie

 

University students wearing Guy Fawkes masks pose for a photoshoot of a graduation ceremony to support anti-government protests at the Hong Kong Polytechnic University, in Hong Kong, China October 30, 2019. REUTERS/Tyrone Siu

 

HONG KONG (Reuters) - Hong Kong is bracing for a rowdy and possibly hugely dangerous Halloween on Thursday, when thousands of pro-democracy protesters, many wearing banned face masks, plan to combine with fancy-dress clubbers in the party district of Lan Kwai Fong.

 

The protesters say they will march, without police permission, from a park in the Causeway Bay shopping district through the heaving bar streets of Wan Chai to the steep, narrow foothills of the Peak above Central.

 

Every weekend, the bars in Lan Kwai Fong spill on to the streets office goers, clubbers and expatriate families, even without the activists who have thrown petrol bombs at police, set fires and trashed buildings during five months of unrest.

 

A stampede at midnight on New Year’s Eve in 1992, when thousands had gathered, killed at least 20 and wounded scores.

 

This month Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam banned protesters from wearing face masks under a resuscitated British colonial-era emergency law, but few have taken any notice.

 

And Halloween masks have not been banned, which will make it difficult for police to identify protesters.

 

“Based on past experience, such unauthorized assembly will impose serious threat to public order and public safety,” police said in a statement.

 

“Members of the public should avoid traveling to the concerned area when public disorder occurs.”

 

Protesters are angry at what they see as Beijing’s increasing interference in Hong Kong, which returned from British to Chinese rule in 1997 under a “one country, two systems” formula intended to guarantee freedoms not seen on the mainland. Some are increasingly focusing their fury on mainland Chinese in the city.

 

China denies meddling and has accused foreign governments, including the United States and Britain, of stirring up trouble.

 

Lam said she expected negative economic growth in the Asian financial hub this year, in part as a result of the unrest.

 

“The increasingly violent reality since June is hurting Hong Kong’s economy,” Lam said in a speech on Wednesday. “...what started off as peaceful protests, a hallmark of Hong Kong’s rights and freedoms, have turned into violent acts by rioters.”

 

With visitors deterred by months of violence, many small firms across the city have already closed or are struggling to turn a profit.

 

Lam’s gloomy forecast came two days after Financial Secretary Paul Chan said Hong Kong had slipped into a technical recession, meaning two successive quarters of contraction. That is expected to be confirmed by Thursday’s third-quarter GDP data.

 

The protests, which started over a now-withdrawn extradition bill, have plunged the city into its biggest crisis in decades and also pose the biggest populist challenge to Chinese President Xi Jinping since he came to power in 2012.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-10-30

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[tonbridgebrit]

Guy Fawkes was British, what on earth has Guy Fawkes got to do with a bunch of Chinese in Hong Kong doing their protests ? Not a lot. Hong Kong is an ex-British Empire place. Hong Kong's link with England is the same as India's link with England. India is also an ex-British Empire place. Do you see Indians in India (or Pakistanis in Pakistan, or Bangladeshis in Bangladesh) getting out the Union Jack and doing their protest ? Off-course not.




In the above photo, we see a load of Chinese with a flag, it's got a Union Jack in the corner. How ridiculous. The flag above, it's almost as ridiculous as Australia's flag. Okay, so Australians are mainly British who are in Ausralia. That's why they have the Union Jack in their flag. But why on earth are a load of Chinese in Hong Kong bringing out the Union Jack ??






And above, is another photo of Chinese in Hong Kong bringing out the Union Jack. The Union Jack, my flag, my banner. It doesn't belong to anybody else.


 

[Salerno]

Because they don't like your bosses? 

 

5 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

The Union Jack, my flag, my banner. It doesn't belong to anybody else.

If you say so ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35890670

[tonbridgebrit]

37 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Because they don't like your bosses? 

 

If you say so ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35890670

If people leave Britain, they turn up at whatever foreign place, okay. So, years later, a few or several generations later, they still reckon they're British, they want to have the Union Jack as part of their flag, okay, that's just about fair enough. But a load of people in Hong Kong, they're not British, they don't have British ancestry, why on earth are they bringing out the Union Jack ? Anybody seeing a load of Pakistanis in Pakistan, or Bangladeshis in Bangladesh, bring out the Union Jack, would think that it is crazy and mental.

So, why should a load of Chinese in Hong Kong be allowed to bring out the Union Jack, and it's regarded as being okay ?

From the article "China denies meddling and has accused foreign governments, including the United States and Britain, of stirring up trouble."   Now, if the US government is stirring up trouble in Hong Kong ( if the US government is secretly supporting and funding the rioters/demonsrtaters) well, that's not surprising. The US has constantly supported and financed revolutions and rebellions across planet earth. The Contras in Nicaragua, the Kurds in Syria, etc, etc.


But, is Britain secretly supporting and financing the rioters/demonstraters in Hong Kong ? I hope not. And I certainly condemn any British government involvement in Hong Kong. It's wrong for Britain to get involved. And bearing in mind that Britain is trying to leave Europe, Britain needs a good trade deal with China, well, it would be disastrous to antagonise Beijing by backing and financing the rioters in Hong Kong.


If the rioters in Hong Kong want to burn down Hong Kong, that's up to them. It's a problem that Hong Kong should solve. It's not a British problem.

Edited October 30, 2019 by tonbridgebrit

[Dumbastheycome]

There  does seem to  some  death wish  desire on the part of the HK  demonstrators...or at least those  who  are perpetuating agitation. I  have  family  members  by  marriage and  their  associates  in HK who are infuriated  at the disruptions that they see as  culminating  in Beijing stepping in.

[Traubert]

2 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

There  does seem to  some  death wish  desire on the part of the HK  demonstrators...or at least those  who  are perpetuating agitation. I  have  family  members  by  marriage and  their  associates  in HK who are infuriated  at the disruptions that they see as  culminating  in Beijing stepping in.

Beijing wont step in, they will allow Hong Kong to wither and die. Shenzhen will replace it and the Pearl River Delta scheme has already been re-written to exclude Hong Kong.

 

It will remain Chinese though and if they want to foul their own home, so be it.

[animalmagic]

12 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Hong Kong's link with England is the same as India's link with England

Apart from the fact that India was returned to the people of India and they were allowed self determination.  HK was returned to China in accordance with China's claim of it being a part of China.  HK people were promised self determination under the one country two systems principle in the form of universal suffrage as part of the Joint Declaration and the Basic Law. 

 

12 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

The Union Jack, my flag, my banner. It doesn't belong to anybody else.

A flag is a symbol, it does not belong to any person.  It is a representation of many things and people may belong, if they so choose, to what the flag represents.

[Dr Rodrigues Pereira]

You would be surprised by the number of India nationals that are applying to Portuguese passport at our Consulate in Goa. And they , ytoo, take Portuguese flags in their hands ... It's got nothing to do with imperialism ; just with the peoples will, that should be respected !

[Rod the Sod]

I was in HK just before the hand-over. The locals who were vocal couldn't wait for the Brits to leave. I lived there for 9 years after the hand-over and people were initially very proud to be considered Chinese. You asked the question "are you a Hong Konger or Chinese?" the vast majority said Chinese (with HK undertones). Now move the clock forward and as China gently takes over and inflicts it's communist ideals and barbaric legal system on Hong Kongers (Communism with Chinese characteristics which allows more billionaires than any other country by the way), they realise (albeit very dimly and slowly) that a democratic environment, even under colonial rule, is better than a system where people just disappear and your freedoms are removed.

 

I am so sad to see what has become of my second home, and I am sad that China just doesn't get it. It could have had it's cake and eaten it, but now it is so scared of what the other billions will do, that everyone suffers the same. For Hong Kong, the way the transition is going it truly is a race for the bottom.

 

It is no good Carrie Lam blaming the troubles for economic decline. Through her stupidity she created the troubles (even though these would have bubbled through at another future stage). Can you imagine what it would have been like though if nothing at all had changed and then on the eve of the 50th anniversary everything changed. There would have been a war, not a riot, so in some ways it is better to transition slowly than all at once.

 

A lesson for us all - career politicians are not worth the skin they are born in. If I recall correctly, the police had to help Carrie Lam and show her how to buy toilet paper because she had never bought her own before and didn't know where it could be purchased. Just the qualifications to lead a country in transit from democracy to communism!!

 

I really hope that they get it worked out sooner rather than later. I can foresee a disaster tonight with thousands all wearing Halloween masks!

[Traubert]

2 hours ago, animalmagic said:

Apart from the fact that India was returned to the people of India and they were allowed self determination.  HK was returned to China in accordance with China's claim of it being a part of China.  HK people were promised self determination under the one country two systems principle in the form of universal suffrage as part of the Joint Declaration and the Basic Law. 

 

A flag is a symbol, it does not belong to any person.  It is a representation of many things and people may belong, if they so choose, to what the flag represents.

HK would be a sight closer to universal suffrage if the dems hadnt vetoed CY Yeungs bill back in 2017. There would now be 5m voters in HK if they hadn't done that.

[Rod the Sod]

1 hour ago, rhyddid said:

Bring in the Red China army to deal with, Faux protesters are sponsored and mounted by US corporations and US secret services , its to clear !

Why all the news talk only of HK but don't talk of Chile, or Brazil ???

Apart from the fact you cannot support that statement with an ounce of evidence, it is the biggest load of claptrap I have heard for a while. HK may be talked about here because they are a neighbour and what happens in Asia (especially China) affects us all. Not sure what is happening in South America is going to impact you too much. Put yourself in the shoes of a Hong Konger who has had freedoms for 4 or 5 generations and they now see it being taken away contrary to the agreements China signed. You do not need any Americans to tell you that it is wrong and worth fighting for!! Doh....

 

I am not saying that there is no influence because there probably is as all the Superpowers seem to think it is their role to force people's thinking in other countries to suit their agenda, but please, give the people of HK some credit!!

 

You are obviously a deep thinker - you fancy another Tiananmen Square do you, this time caught on a million cameras. Even the Chinese have worked that one out!

[tonbridgebrit]

9 hours ago, animalmagic said:

Apart from the fact that India was returned to the people of India and they were allowed self determination.  HK was returned to China in accordance with China's claim of it being a part of China.  HK people were promised self determination under the one country two systems principle in the form of universal suffrage as part of the Joint Declaration and the Basic Law. 

 

Hong Kong. It was during the 1980s when Britain and China did a deal about the Handover in 1997. We have to bear in mind that Britain took Hong Kong on a 99 year lease in 1898, hence, the lease expired in 1997, and so, negotiations over the 1997 Handover.

The Beijing government could have said "look, we're not interested in any talks, the lease expires in 1997, Britain will leave, Beijing (China) will take over, there will be no transition period after 1997, none of the [one country two systems] will be brought in".  Beijing could have said that, and Britain would have been able to do nothing.  Instead, Britan and China negotiated a sensible deal, 50 years of "one country two systems".

Now then, that deal for 50 years guaranteed stuff like freedom of religion and freedom of speech, and other stuff. With freedom of religion and freedom of speech, well, there's been no erosions whatsover, or extremely little. Christian groups can still praise the Lord Jesus (by the way, I'm a Christian man) today in Hong Kong. Freedom of speech, well, the BBC, CNN, all big newspapers in Europe, they're all allowed to enter Hong Kong and cover the story regarding the riots/protests. So surely, we agree that there has been no reduction in freedom of the media ??


So, exactly what freedom has been taken away ? That thing about how people in Hong Kong can be extradited to China to face trial, well, I think that's been, just about sorted out. The demonstrators have got things their way with regards to the extradition bit.
By the way, people in America and Europe forget about how the issue of extradition started. To re-cap, a Hong Kong man and his Hong Kong girlfried went to Taiwan for a holiday. He killed the girlfriend in Taiwan, and then went back to Hong Kong. The present system (and it's been like this always) basically means, even though he killed his girlfriend, the 'system' won't arrest him in Hong Kong and transport him to Taiwan to stand trial for murder. Surely, something is wrong with such a system ? They should change the system, so that, if Hong Kong people commit crime in Taiwan, if they go back to Hong Kong, they should still be arrested and sent to Taiwan for trial. And vice versa, regarding Taiwanese doing crime in Hong Kong and then they head back to Taiwan. Surely, we agree that it would be sensible to change to this ?


Right, so we've sorted out 'extradition, freedom of religion and speech'. What else ? What are the riots/demonstrations about ?
When that 50 year deal starting in 1997 was started, it was not part of the deal for Hong Kong to go on a road that would lead to independence. It was agreed, that in 2047, 50 years after 1997, that the deal would end, and Hong Kong (near enough) will be fully integrated as part of China. 2047, that's when 'one country, two systems' will end. Although Beijing has the option to extend it beyond 2047.


I'm tring to say, what is the point of the continuation of the riots ? The people of Hong Kong, there's been no reduction in religious freedom, freedom of speech, sexual freedom, etc. The extradition bit that started the demonstrations has been sorted out, the demonstraters have got what they wanted. Why continue with the riots ? Being on a road to independence was not part of the 50 year deal that started in 1997.

[tonbridgebrit]

21 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

There  does seem to  some  death wish  desire on the part of the HK  demonstrators...or at least those  who  are perpetuating agitation. I  have  family  members  by  marriage and  their  associates  in HK who are infuriated  at the disruptions that they see as  culminating  in Beijing stepping in.

Well, Beijing is not going to step in and end these riots. Beijing knows that this will be disastrous if they do step in. But this is creating a continuation of the riots. The riots cannot be stopped, they will carry on. And the continuation of these riots, this is harming Hong Kong's economy. The number of tourists turning up in Hong Kong is far lower than what it should be. Hong Kong's economy is being seriously harmed.  And it's not just the tourism sector that is being harmed.

[animalmagic]

30 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

We have to bear in mind that Britain took Hong Kong on a 99 year lease in 1898

The actual 99 year lease was only for the New Territories, HK island was ceded to the British after the 1st Opium War 1830-42, and the Kowloon Peninsula after the 2nd Opium War 1856-60.

 

33 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Being on a road to independence was not part of the 50 year deal that started in 1997.

I never mentioned Independence as I simply referred to self determination; which can be allowed whilst still being an inalienable part of China.

To my understanding the current situation has escalated beyond the Extradition issue which, if you have not seen the news, China ignored the absence of when abducting the Causeway Bay booksellers from HK and Guo Minhai from Thailand a few years ago.  Currently the demonstrators demand 'five demands not one less'.

I do not dispute the freedom of religion or the press enjoyed by HK since 1997 but you may be interested to know that the Hong Kong Free Press, a small independent news organization, has very recently been blocked on public computers at the airport.  Freedom of speech was not encouraged in the recent row with the manager of the Houston Rockets and the NBA.  There are also several ex members of Cathay Pacific who lost their jobs because they spoke out on various social media platforms.

In short, the freedoms you mention may not be quite as free as you think.

[Salerno]

Mmmmmm, I love the smell of propaganda in the morning ... or any time of the day really  

[tonbridgebrit]

1 hour ago, animalmagic said:

The actual 99 year lease was only for the New Territories, HK island was ceded to the British after the 1st Opium War 1830-42, and the Kowloon Peninsula after the 2nd Opium War 1856-60.

 

I never mentioned Independence as I simply referred to self determination; which can be allowed whilst still being an inalienable part of China.

To my understanding the current situation has escalated beyond the Extradition issue which, if you have not seen the news, China ignored the absence of when abducting the Causeway Bay booksellers from HK and Guo Minhai from Thailand a few years ago.  Currently the demonstrators demand 'five demands not one less'.

I do not dispute the freedom of religion or the press enjoyed by HK since 1997 but you may be interested to know that the Hong Kong Free Press, a small independent news organization, has very recently been blocked on public computers at the airport.  Freedom of speech was not encouraged in the recent row with the manager of the Houston Rockets and the NBA.  There are also several ex members of Cathay Pacific who lost their jobs because they spoke out on various social media platforms.

In short, the freedoms you mention may not be quite as free as you think.

Thank you for your post. Interesting.

Yes, you're correct, Hong Kong Island itself was taken by Britain far earlier than 1898. It was taken with no deal whatsover to give it back to China. Yes, Britain won a war against China, the Opium War. A war that  Britain won, and it meant that British companies were fully allowed to export opium (stuff that is similar to herione) to China. The Emperor of China did not want opium in China, and fought a war to stop opium. It's a chapter of British history that is not good, almost as bad as the slave trade.

Those negotiations between the Thatcher government and Beijing in the 1980s, Britain could have stated that Hong Kong Island itself would stay British forever, or indefinitely. But Britain did not say that. Britain agreed to handed over the whole lot (Hong Kong Island, Kowloon, the New Territorries) back to China in 1997. Why ? I'd say it was partly to do with accepting that taking land from China after fighting two Opium Wars was a dark chapter of British history, and the British government knew this. Hence, as a good will gesture, hand back the whole lot, it was after all, actually 'stolen' from China during the 1800s.

Talk about the abduction of the Hong Kong booksellers by Chinese agents. Was Beijing wrong to arrest the booksellers in Hong Kong and take them to China ? Was Beijing wrong to 'abduct' the Chinese man who was in Thailand, because of his books ? Who wants to condemn Thailand for allowing the Chinese agents to carry out the abduction of the Chinese man in Thailand ? So, Thailand allows Chinese agents to abduct a Chinese man in Thailand, we're not going to condemn Thailand for this. But Hong Kong allows Chinese in Hong Kong to be transported to China to face questioning, we condemn Hong Kong ??


About the NBA and Houston Rockets. They said their stuff, and they've now had some of their sales and profits in China taken away from them. Well, what do people expect ? If people say something against Beijing, well, surely, it's Beijing's right to block (or partially block) their goods or sales, in China ?

As for Cathay Pacific, a lot of their profit is made on routes to mainland China. Should Cathay Pacific tolerate staff who condemn mainland China ? Is it Beijing's freedom to partially stop airlines operating in China, if those airlines promote anti-Beijing views ? Them kids took over Hong Kong Airport for two days, causing flights to be cancelled or postponed. If kids in Britain take-over whatever airport in England, the British government would remove them straight away. Whatever their protest, they would still be removed straight away.


And what is happening in Hong Kong now ? There are rioters who are vandalizing banks that are from mainland China. They're also setting fire to shops and eating places that have been set up by mainland Chinese companies. What on earth are they doing ? They're massively reducing the number of mainland Chinese tourists entering Hong Kong. If mainland Chinese tourists boycott Hong Kong even after the riots are all over, well, would that be surprising ? Hong Kong's economy is far more reliant on China than Britain's reliance on Europe. And, Britain is trying to avoid a suicidal Hard Brexit. Is Hong Kong actually looking for a suicidal 'economic drifting away' from China ? 

[beautifulthailand99]

On 10/30/2019 at 12:05 PM, tonbridgebrit said:

Guy Fawkes was British, what on earth has Guy Fawkes got to do with a bunch of Chinese in Hong Kong doing their protests ? Not a lot. Hong Kong is an ex-British Empire place. Hong Kong's link with England is the same as India's link with England. India is also an ex-British Empire place. Do you see Indians in India (or Pakistanis in Pakistan, or Bangladeshis in Bangladesh) getting out the Union Jack and doing their protest ? Off-course not.




In the above photo, we see a load of Chinese with a flag, it's got a Union Jack in the corner. How ridiculous. The flag above, it's almost as ridiculous as Australia's flag. Okay, so Australians are mainly British who are in Ausralia. That's why they have the Union Jack in their flag. But why on earth are a load of Chinese in Hong Kong bringing out the Union Jack ??






And above, is another photo of Chinese in Hong Kong bringing out the Union Jack. The Union Jack, my flag, my banner. It doesn't belong to anybody else.


 

Here's a bunch of Brits using it 'correctly' in Whitehall today to celebrate our leaving of the EU today.

 

 

[tonbridgebrit]

3 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Here's a bunch of Brits using it 'correctly' in Whitehall today to celebrate our leaving of the EU today.

 

Them Brexiteers, they're British, they're entitled to use the Union Jack. But them people who are Remainers, they're also British, they're also allowed to use the Union Jack.  ????

I'm just trying to say, people who are not British, and if they don't have British ancestry, they look a bit silly if they bring out the Union Jack. The Australians are mainly people with British ancestry living in Australia. So, it's sort of okay, that they've got a Union Jack in the corner of their flag.

[animalmagic]

10 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

The Emperor of China did not want opium in China, and fought a war to stop opium. It's a chapter of British history that is not good, almost as bad as the slave trade.

Sadly there are chapters in the history of every country that are reprehensible; human history is littered with them. 

By the way, opium is not the same as heroin it is a source of heroin.  Opium is the raw product taken from the poppy and then goes through various stages of refinement to become Morphine and then Heroin 1,2,3,and 4.  Heroin 4 is far more damaging and it is difficult for an addict to survive or quit.  Strangely very similar to the difference in the stages of raw sugar products processed all the way to white refined sugar; the latter is much more difficult for the body to process and does more damage than the raw original.

I fully understand the point of your comments on the abductions, NBA and Cathay, but would suggest that is purely an economic/profit point of view.  The individuals, on the whole, involved in the protest would appear to be placing personal liberties as a priority over financial gains; probably anathema and hard to comprehend for any Government.  My use of those examples was to show the level of distrust and disappointment that HK youngsters seem to have reached as they have experienced greater exposure to immigrants and tourists from the Mainland.  One country, two systems; and very different groups of people.

There does not appear to be a good outcome from all of this; but even worse there are no initiatives to stop or solve it.  The Govt says they will discuss things after the violence stops but produces no incentives for it to do so.  The Police are being expected to fight street battles to win a political war; that always ends well!

Tragic to see a once proud and respected police force now become the bete noire of the society it is part of and should protect.

[tonbridgebrit]

9 hours ago, animalmagic said:

Sadly there are chapters in the history of every country that are reprehensible; human history is littered with them. 

By the way, opium is not the same as heroin it is a source of heroin.  Opium is the raw product taken from the poppy and then goes through various stages of refinement to become Morphine and then Heroin 1,2,3,and 4.  Heroin 4 is far more damaging and it is difficult for an addict to survive or quit.  Strangely very similar to the difference in the stages of raw sugar products processed all the way to white refined sugar; the latter is much more difficult for the body to process and does more damage than the raw original.

I fully understand the point of your comments on the abductions, NBA and Cathay, but would suggest that is purely an economic/profit point of view.  The individuals, on the whole, involved in the protest would appear to be placing personal liberties as a priority over financial gains; probably anathema and hard to comprehend for any Government.  My use of those examples was to show the level of distrust and disappointment that HK youngsters seem to have reached as they have experienced greater exposure to immigrants and tourists from the Mainland.  One country, two systems; and very different groups of people.

There does not appear to be a good outcome from all of this; but even worse there are no initiatives to stop or solve it.  The Govt says they will discuss things after the violence stops but produces no incentives for it to do so.  The Police are being expected to fight street battles to win a political war; that always ends well!

Tragic to see a once proud and respected police force now become the bete noire of the society it is part of and should protect.

I say, thanks again, for your post.

Britain fighting and winning two Opium Wars and exporting opium to China (by the way, the opium was grown in India, supposedly) was not as bad as the slave trade in the West Indies, but still, it was a dark chapter in Britain's history.

The economic/profit point of view. Yes, a minority in society (and I reckon you are part of this minority) genuinely feel that profit is not the number one priority. But I would say, most people in the US government do feel that profit/benefits is what it's all about. Basically, Washington is banging the anti-China drum, going on and on about negative stories about China, but their real motive is to extract greater benefits from China. Huawei is living proof of this. Washington simply does not want a Chinese company making a big profit in America. So, they want to restrict Huawei, and Washington's excuse is to claim that Huawei is a danger to American security. What Washington actually wants is, is that profits in America will stay in American hands, and not in Chinese (or any other non-American) hands.

What about the Hong Kong police ? During the Colonial Era, Hong Kong's police force was massively corrupt, the corruption was almost laughable. People might as well say, that Hong Kong's police force was just a corrupt (or almost as corrupt) as other police forces in various countries in South East Asia (Cambodia, Vietnam, Burma, etc) . Are the Hong Kong police the same as they were during the Colonial Era, prior to 1997 ????


Okay, let's get to really what's happening. Back in the 1970s and 80s, Hong Kong made a good profit. Basically, companies in Hong Kong purchased cheap goods from mainland China and re-routed (re-exported) the goods to America and Europe. They also bought goods from America and Europe, and re-routed (re-exported) the stuff to mainland China. This was the biggest single reason for Hong Kong's prosperity prior to the 1990s. Today, China is exporting goods to America directly. Ships docked in Shanghai, they're packed with cheap Chinese goods, and they sail to California directly. No need for the middle-men in Hong Kong.

Basically, Hong Kong is losing it's vital status as an export/import point for mainland China. But Hong Kong is still prosperous. Vast numbers of mainland Chinese tourists flood Hong Kong. And mega-rich mainland Chinese purchase real estate in Hong Kong, keeping Hong Kong apartment prices very high.


The youngsters in Hong Kong, facing sky-high apartment prices, noticing that Hong Kong's importance is dissapearing (China can export to America directly, no need to go through Hong Kong) , well, they are frustrated. Hong Kong, economically, is becoming the same as any city in mainland China. That's why the youngsters are angry. Do your job, but you will never own your own home, because the price of the apartment is too high. Spend your whole life paying rent. The youngsters, their religious freedom, freedom to read any newspaper, sexual freedom, none of that is being taken away. But they are still angry.

Edited November 1, 2019 by tonbridgebrit

[animalmagic]

14 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Yes, a minority in society (and I reckon you are part of this minority) genuinely feel that profit is not the number one priority.

Happy to feel that profit is not the number one priority, but sad to be in a minority; give it time perhaps that will change before the planet is totally ruined.

The HK Police did suffer systemic corruption in the early and mid stages of its existence but this began to change in 1974 with the formation of the ICAC, until it became a very clean and well respected police force both locally and internationally.  There were still cases of corruption after that but most certainly not on the widespread scale seen before; there will always be bad apples.  Even to this date I do not know of many cases of what the public perceive to be normal corruption, in terms of backhanders and accepting cash in the same manner as many Asian forces.  There does seem to be, to my rather jaundiced eye, rather more cases of corruption by influence in both the police force and business operations; perhaps that's why I am part of that minority you mention.  Nepotism and personal ties do seem to play a major part in the overall workings of Hong Kong; but that is true of the whole world.

The youngsters are smart enough to realise that three of the most important pillars of a society, housing, education and health, are being taken out of their reach and they will be little but drones for the rich and powerful.  Quite possibly this is the reason why they feel they have nothing to lose, and some actually carry a copy of their will on their person?

May I respectfully suggest that rather than bore everybody else with our personal debate that you send a private message to me if you wish to continue?

[Tayaout]

On 10/30/2019 at 7:05 PM, tonbridgebrit said:

Guy Fawkes was British, what on earth has Guy Fawkes got to do with a bunch of Chinese in Hong Kong doing their protests ? Not a lot. Hong Kong is an ex-British Empire place. Hong Kong's link with England is the same as India's link with England. India is also an ex-British Empire place. Do you see Indians in India (or Pakistanis in Pakistan, or Bangladeshis in Bangladesh) getting out the Union Jack and doing their protest ? Off-course not.




In the above photo, we see a load of Chinese with a flag, it's got a Union Jack in the corner. How ridiculous. The flag above, it's almost as ridiculous as Australia's flag. Okay, so Australians are mainly British who are in Ausralia. That's why they have the Union Jack in their flag. But why on earth are a load of Chinese in Hong Kong bringing out the Union Jack ??






And above, is another photo of Chinese in Hong Kong bringing out the Union Jack. The Union Jack, my flag, my banner. It doesn't belong to anybody else.


 

"Since the 2005 release of the film V for Vendetta, the use of stylised "Guy Fawkes" masks, with moustache and pointed beard, has become widespread internationally among groups protesting against politicians, banks, and financial institutions. The masks both conceal the identity and protect the face of individuals and demonstrate their commitment to a shared cause.^[13][14]"

^{https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_mask}

As for the British flag it's because it was a British colony and many Hong-Kong resident hold a limited British passport.

 

"Protesters often stated that they did not use the blue ensign to endorse Hong Kong independence or the return of Hong Kong to British control, but rather because they felt that Hong Kong had greater freedom under British rule.^[11]" 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Hong_Kong_(1959–1997)

 

They might be given full UK citizenship in the future. 

 

 

Everything happen for a reason. 

Edited November 2, 2019 by Tayaout