Loosening up can be either making things easier on paper or in practice (how IOs are told to handle you).

 

I see it mentioned often during a tightening period like this past year, that "they'll change again after some pain." Historically is this actually true?

 

If it does yoyo back and forth, I suppose slow tourism numbers and declining revenues are the catalyst for changing attitudes? Or are the other more important factors?

Historically, not sure...but in the last few years they may be asking: "What would the Chinese do?"  "How can we change the visa requirements to please the Chinese?"  

 

Just a guess...????

Loss of earnings, hence the adoption of visa free entry  for Chinese and Indians.

This sounds to me like a good dose of "wishful thinking".

6 hours ago, Hal65 said:

"they'll change again after some pain."...Historically is this actually true?

 

No. Lots of tightening has gone on for the last 20 years and no signs of letting up, in fact quite the opposite can be forecast. Examples:

 

1. several of the best visa types were withdrawn completely in the early 2000's
2. crackdowns on tourist visas and O visas at consulates all over
3. crackdowns on 30 day arrivals
4. 90 day reports used to be not done, now everyone has to do them
5. tm.30 has reared its ugly head
6. crackdowns on over stayers
7. More crackdowns in the works making the news
8. They are planning to force foreigners to carry special sim cards so they can be tracked wherever they go

 

The problems with all these types of crackdowns is while their intention is to net the 1% bad guys and more power to them for that, they just never stop and think what a PITA they make life for the 99% just wanting to keep everything legal. Now their modern thinking is "oh we'll just give them an app". This is a complete horse**** approach when they should instead go back and fix the fundamental bureaucratic nightmares they have created. But there is too much loss of face to go back and admit decisions they got behind, made, and celebrated were foolish and wrong. More tightening in the works. Not a good picture.

 

Edited November 9, 20196 yr by canopy

My 84 year old cousin visits us every winter, stays for

3 months,in the past fill 1 form send it off to Thai Embassy

in London along with payment to get Visa,easy

 

Now this time has to fill in a 5 page application,online to get

a E-Visa,what a carry on, picture too light,picture too dark,

needs letter from me inviting her to stay at our house,has

to provide a copy of bank statements,so things are definitely

a lot more difficult now,for her at least.

regards Worgeordie

 

 

My guesstimate is this... Despite the so called "elections" This is for all intent & purpose a Military Government.

 

As such we expected tightening & it seems to be occurring although slower than we initially expected.

We expected more from 2016 on But they seem to be catching up now

 

Even if/when tourism gets crippled & many expats leave & then the Military Government wants to switch gears back to open arms or a true government moves in it will be an accordion effect that will take many years if ever to spring back to what it once was. Because once expats relocate & tourists plan for other destinations it does not switch right back to how it was before just because the smiles return. (aka: return of a normal elected government that knows how to steer an economy)

 

Edited November 9, 20196 yr by meechai

I am not sure anything could change the attitude of this current administration. The degree of ignorance they are cursed with, the dearth of knowledge and competence, the amount of hatred and racism of Westerners, they are cursed with, and the level of fear they operate under is beyond the pale. Only money will motivate them. If tourism completely falls apart, or millions of Thais really start rising up against their policies, things might change. 

Guys,

 

I think the entire "crack down" is due to those that abuse the system. 

 

Yes, it has been very easy in past to game the system and stay long term on entry methods intended to be short term.  But reality is it is still very easy to stay in the Kingdom long term with the proper visa.  All they are asking you to do is prove you can support yourself and follow the rules.  

 

 

It is a helluva lot easier for me to stay in Thailand long term than my wife to get a simple tourist visa to the US.  We don't even want to get into what it would take for her to get long term visa........

 

 

YMMV

I think a decision has been made at the very top of this country to reduce the numbers of westerners hanging out in the country and to reduce numbers overall. The restrictions on visas and additional steps to obtain visas seem a good remedy. Many, many countries have same requirements about pre booking your holiday. I don't think the logic unsound. The countries with the most flush benefits give workers one month a year. So you with 2-3 or 6 or 12 to burn are a big question mark. Time was Thailand didn't care. Now for many reasons, they do. It doesn't matter why you're not going to change policy. I think one big reason is fewer foreigners about to criticize what goes on here. Especially if political unrest bubbles up. This isn't China. Thailand is run as a profit center for a few hundred families. That will not be out in jeopardy. Blood in the streets first. Lots of it. The nation is moving toward the Philippine model not the Singaporean.

48 minutes ago, 86Tiger said:

easier for me to stay in Thailand long term than my wife to get a simple tourist visa to the US.  We don't even want to get into what it would take for her to get long term visa........

I believe the exact opposite. My wife then GF obtained her visa with only a letter of job guarantee. Further, she very well could have appeared to be traveling back to US with me to marry. She was given a ten year visas and has made half dozen trips

It's gotten to the point where I strongly suspect that the country actually wants to become fully independent from tourism income. Hence the apparent lack of interest in the declining tourism industry and the continued tightening of visa regulations and immigration requirements.

This is the way repressive military governments always behave.

Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao etc ........... first order of business, all foreigners out. 

There is a global tightening on freedom of movement on this planet. I have been watching Thailand's VISA process for the last five years tighten. I would ask Hal65 to provide some evidence for his/her assertion that Thailand has historically loosened up on their VISA policies.

Edited November 9, 20196 yr by Tounge Thaied

We arrived back from N.Z. on the 9th Nov at 9 pm at the airport, hardly any one here no qs and heaps of imm officers just sitting around chatting. For the first time ever I saw a indian woman pulled over at customs check when she tried to walk though the green gate. I sailed passed no bother with my partner we had 3 suitcases and 3 carry ons ????

 

I have a retirement visa my partner is Thai

 

Edited November 9, 20196 yr by whiteman

1 hour ago, 86Tiger said:

Guys,

 

I think the entire "crack down" is due to those that abuse the system. 

 

Yes, it has been very easy in past to game the system and stay long term on entry methods intended to be short term.  But reality is it is still very easy to stay in the Kingdom long term with the proper visa.  All they are asking you to do is prove you can support yourself and follow the rules.  

 

 

It is a helluva lot easier for me to stay in Thailand long term than my wife to get a simple tourist visa to the US.  We don't even want to get into what it would take for her to get long term visa........

 

 

YMMV

I know so many Thais who get a 10 year multiple entry tourist visa on their first try for USA ( some got a single the first time then 10 year the next try as well ) The great thing about the USA system is that there are SET guidelines and you follow them. I’ve known several Thais who got a Single visa to Canada and when applying for another one got a 5 year Canadian METV without asking! I would love to be able to get a 10 year METV to Thailand but it does not exist. It’s just easier for a working Thai to get a visa to the USA. 

53 minutes ago, Tounge Thaied said:

There is a global tightening on freedom of movement on this planet.

I believe that is the biggest influence on Thailand's current position - others!!! Sure there are reasons we have no idea about?

Historically they only encouraged visits, back when I arrived there were only around 3 million a year, now they have more than enough and are "choosy"!

The often used argument if "look how difficult it is for a Thai to get a visa to usa or UK" is interesting. 

 

However.. How many want to travel and try to work illegally in Thailand? How many want to do Same same in usa or UK? Yep. Apples and durian 

We recently returned from a fairly long holiday to the EU and UK.  We (she, my Thai Wife)) owns a small Resort, which has generated on average about 85,000 baht per month.  Since we returned, she has become more and more concerned about both the poor attitiude of the authorities to long stay foreigners (me) and what she sees as the gradual decline of income of the average worker, due to the hi-sos keeping the baht so strong (she says so they can invest overseas).  There is no doubt that the Tourist Industry is on a downward slide, despite what TAT say.  Not only is this hitting the smaller resorts, but the restaurants, street vendors, shop keepers, taxi drivers et al, because the downward trend affects all of the local businesses and population.  In the last week or so, Bangkok Airways have reduced the frequency of their flights to the Island even further and not because it is low season, which they had factored in in previous years.  The Airline has declared a loss this year for the first time since it went in to business. 

 

Last week I was surprised, nay shocked, when she said that it is time we sell up and move elsewhere as she foresees a gloomy future for the Kingdom and wonders what else the Government will introduce to further frustrate the ex-pat community.  Up to then, I was one of the keenest supporters of my life style in Thailand, but must confess, now she has highlighted her concerns, which are undoubtedly valid, I have also come to the view that life style and income are on the decline and it is perhaps time we moved on to elsewhere. 

 

I have had a wonderful 15 years living in Thailand, living a very comfortable life.  But, I have to ask myself, is this only a temporary blip, or is this the start of a consistent decline in all things Thailand?

No letting up only getting worse. They are in 2020 looking at all Thai bank accounts that have over 2 million and taxing them. They are looking at all inbound money transfers to see what thai they can tax. If you noticed they are taking 15% of our and everyone’s bank account interest. Customs now screening everyone at airport for goods to tax. Too many to mention. They are implementing a hard tax system to rake and reap in money so this tells you that they simply do not need our money as long term stayers as they can get it other ways. They don’t like us. Heck, they don’t even like their normal citizens. 

 

So for the expats who stay here they will try and make it as hard as possible and implement ways to take or use our money. Such as having it locked into bank accounts, bogus insurance, etc. And we have to put up with being monitored as we   are untrustworthy bad guys. 

 

In the last 20 years it has only gotten more harsh. So opening up to easy again is just not going to happen. We have been used up and now being tossed out. 

43 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

They are in 2020 looking at all Thai bank accounts that have over 2 million and taxing them.

Can you provide a link about this? News to me. Thanks.

IMO it has definitely become harder for those who are sailing close to the wind financially, or are not complying with the rules. I've actually found it easier to deal with Immigration after the shakeup at Chiang Mai.

No argument the current government is a bunch of d&&kheads. However, they can't go too far with the tourist side of things without p$$%ing off the Chinese, to whom they owe a lot of money, plus it would endanger infrastructure projects. Unless they create a new visa class for the Chinese alone, which would then p**s off the Americans. Stupid they are, but not that stupid.

The only dealbreakers for me are increasing the funds required on deposit, or mandating health insurance. Which I would not get due to age and pre-existing conditions. Then it would be adios Thailand.

2 hours ago, whiteman said:

We arrived back from N.Z. on the 9th Nov at 9 pm at the airport, hardly any one here no qs and heaps of imm officers just sitting around chatting. For the first time ever I saw a indian woman pulled over at customs check when she tried to walk though the green gate. I sailed passed no bother with my partner we had 3 suitcases and 3 carry ons ????

 

I have a retirement visa my partner is Thai

 

Flew out on Monday the 4th, BA10 to London. Suvarnabhumi was dead. The Chinese greatly outnumbered all other groups at the airport and there weren't all that many Chinese....

 

I used the MRT & ARL from Hualampong to Suvarnabhumi. White / Black faces as I made my way through Bangkok? I'll be generous and say around 15. No-one can tell me something isn't going on and that tourist numbers are just peachy.

Edited November 9, 20196 yr by baboon

The higher ups are tired of having general Thai comparing what they got to the expat/tourist and what they got. Not just money; our education and health is envied too. Somchai is beginning to wonder why there lot in life is a poor imitation of the farang they see every day.

11 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Historically, not sure...but in the last few years they may be asking: "What would the Chinese do?"  "How can we change the visa requirements to please the Chinese?"  

 

Just a guess...????

I can't ever remember the Thai government making things easier for us westerners.

17 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I can't ever remember the Thai government making things easier for us westerners.

Your comments are so predictable...

 

Just put your TVF poster name in the comments section...we will know what you want to say...????

A few years back global terrorism was a real growing problem and to try and control this the US government introduced facta financial reporting from financial institutions. A few years later the Eu followed suit with the CRS common reporting standard.

 

any countries wanting to be trusted and allowed certain benefits needed to adhere to these new rules.

 

thailand used to be seen as an easy place to launder money, commit fraud and other crimes and it was a hideout for many criminals and potentially terrorists.

 

incidentaly by adhering to the new strict financial reporting meant that everyone must be accountable financially and therefore a side benefit is crack downs on tax evasion which means more money going into all government coffers.

 

the rise of trump, hard right movements and nationalistic dictators around the globe is partly a response to terrorism taking advantage of globalisation and free movement.

 

consequently in this respect the government is no different in Thailand  cleaning up the place from crooks and terrorism.

 

China is also seizing any opportunity to colonise by means of financial loans / debt.

 

all this means stricter controls at borders and financial institutions and a few steps backwards from globalisation.

 

the tide will turn again one day but things will never be the same as before

 

 

Edited November 9, 20196 yr by NightSky

13 minutes ago, Puchaiyank said:

Your comments are so predictable...

 

Just put your TVF poster name in the comments section...we will know what you want to say...????

Good, glad I'm getting through, you have just made my day. ????

Consider the notion that the military junta may not want tourism at all, in any shape or form. Then everything suddenly becomes clear. Make visas hard to get, bank accounts almost impossible, let the baht sky rocket. The elite are loving the latter with their foreign investments. The military want to keep the country in the hands of the Thais. They seem to be doing a very good job so far.

I am curious when was it loosened up after tightening up?