Thai Junta Chief Calls For Emergency Rule In Bangkok

[blaze]

Regarding the reputations of Privy Council members. I'd say that, nation-wide as a whole, they are probably the highest you will find amongst any group in Thailand... for what should be obvious reasons.

Then i would advise you to read up, for example, on the personal history of Tanin Kraivixien, another member of the Privy council. He was heading one of the most hated governments, under which some of the worst atrocities in modern Thai history happened.

Perhaps you could spearhead the movement to remove him from the group that is the "most respected position that a Thai commoner could have."

Well the junta may be shopping around for a new PM- or so it was implied in this morning's Post. Maybe somebody could spearhead a drive to have his nibs (Kraivixien- not colpyat) appointed. He'd get action by golly. Then we wouldn't have to put up with annoying debates, let alone people who don't share our views.

[Tony Clifton]

Someone here mentioned photographs of Veera meeting with Thaksin in China.

I did.

The pics were taken on March 1st in China before a meeting between Thaksin and PTV executives. The PTV launch was the next day on March 2nd. The pictures were seen on ASTV and Matichon newspaper (still looking for them on the net). I guess no one dares to publish them as the same old lawsuit tactics have started again. I'll find them.

Add that (PTV) to his hiring of a lobby firm, his multiple interviews with the foreign press AND that hi-Thaksin.net website, it reeks of a plan B , not of retirement. Nothing but a handy fire exit, with all the charges against them, but, for himself first)

That bunch of lizards ( my apologies to all reptiles) clearly don't care about anything else than their own agenda and will do anything to achieve it as they've done in the past. Same old tactics, AND, violence is an option never far away.

May they rot in jail and be FOREVER banned from politics.

Edited April 2, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[John K]

You mean Thaksin was not the original infection and the recent happening in Bangkok is not a recurrence of Thaksin? Let the news run for a few more days and lets revisit this post.

You are in dire need of reading up on Thai history. Long before Thaksin entered the political scene in Thailand there were serious "infections". Thaksin is nothing but a consequence of decades of mismanagement, as the present government is nothing but another consequence.

They are not the solution either, just a continuation of mismanaging the country for the benefit of a few.

Yes I understand that however this thread is about the Junta wanting to clamp down in Bangkok because Thaksin is reemerging. History is a good thing to know, but today’s news is tomorrow history.

Other people and other events pre Thaksin, may or may not have any relevance in today news. There are new players with new and perhaps old approaches.

Why don’t you try to look forward and make predictions based on the pieces of the puzzle, and not cite history. I think you will find it much more intellectually challenging. That is what I do.

[blaze]

You mean Thaksin was not the original infection and the recent happening in Bangkok is not a recurrence of Thaksin? Let the news run for a few more days and lets revisit this post.

You are in dire need of reading up on Thai history. Long before Thaksin entered the political scene in Thailand there were serious "infections". Thaksin is nothing but a consequence of decades of mismanagement, as the present government is nothing but another consequence.

They are not the solution either, just a continuation of mismanaging the country for the benefit of a few.

Yes I understand that however this thread is about the Junta wanting to clamp down in Bangkok because Thaksin is reemerging. History is a good thing to know, but today’s news is tomorrow history.

Other people and other events pre Thaksin, may or may not have any relevance in today news. There are new players with new and perhaps old approaches.

Why don’t you try to look forward and make predictions based on the pieces of the puzzle, and not cite history. I think you will find it much more intellectually challenging. That is what I do.

John I'm sure you know that anyone who seeks to make predictions bases those predictions on their understanding of history. No event occurs in isolation. All events are precipitated by other events and circumstances and mitigated by current events and circumstances- to predict the future by looking only at the present is as foolish as predicting the future by ignoring the present.

You have a back ground in psychology- though I don't know much about psychology, I suspect that if you would submit a prognosis for a patient, you would carefully examine the history of the patient before he came to your office. Even before he started talking to the lamp post.

It is why people learn history- to enable them to find the patterns that will help predict the future.

[Jai Dee]

Final Public Warning

Any more flaming, and the offender(s) will be given a holiday.

[John K]

You mean Thaksin was not the original infection and the recent happening in Bangkok is not a recurrence of Thaksin? Let the news run for a few more days and lets revisit this post.

You are in dire need of reading up on Thai history. Long before Thaksin entered the political scene in Thailand there were serious "infections". Thaksin is nothing but a consequence of decades of mismanagement, as the present government is nothing but another consequence.

They are not the solution either, just a continuation of mismanaging the country for the benefit of a few.

Yes I understand that however this thread is about the Junta wanting to clamp down in Bangkok because Thaksin is reemerging. History is a good thing to know, but today’s news is tomorrow history.

Other people and other events pre Thaksin, may or may not have any relevance in today news. There are new players with new and perhaps old approaches.

Why don’t you try to look forward and make predictions based on the pieces of the puzzle, and not cite history. I think you will find it much more intellectually challenging. That is what I do.

John I'm sure you know that anyone who seeks to make predictions bases those predictions on their understanding of history. No event occurs in isolation. All events are precipitated by other events and circumstances and mitigated by current events and circumstances- to predict the future by looking only at the present is as foolish as predicting the future by ignoring the present.

You have a back ground in psychology- though I don't know much about psychology, I suspect that if you would submit a prognosis for a patient, you would carefully examine the history of the patient before he came to your office. Even before he started talking to the lamp post.

It is why people learn history- to enable them to find the patterns that will help predict the future.

Yes you are correct, but the need to go way back is not necessary in this case. I have been making predictions on Thaksin and hitting about 7 out of 10 correct. In this case knowing the players is more important than knowing the history of Thailand. Just as I don’t know all the history of Thailand, I must assume some of the players may have the same handicap. Based on the Thai education system that idea is not too far fetched.

[blaze]

You mean Thaksin was not the original infection and the recent happening in Bangkok is not a recurrence of Thaksin? Let the news run for a few more days and lets revisit this post.

You are in dire need of reading up on Thai history. Long before Thaksin entered the political scene in Thailand there were serious "infections". Thaksin is nothing but a consequence of decades of mismanagement, as the present government is nothing but another consequence.

They are not the solution either, just a continuation of mismanaging the country for the benefit of a few.

Yes I understand that however this thread is about the Junta wanting to clamp down in Bangkok because Thaksin is reemerging. History is a good thing to know, but today’s news is tomorrow history.

Other people and other events pre Thaksin, may or may not have any relevance in today news. There are new players with new and perhaps old approaches.

Why don’t you try to look forward and make predictions based on the pieces of the puzzle, and not cite history. I think you will find it much more intellectually challenging. That is what I do.

John I'm sure you know that anyone who seeks to make predictions bases those predictions on their understanding of history. No event occurs in isolation. All events are precipitated by other events and circumstances and mitigated by current events and circumstances- to predict the future by looking only at the present is as foolish as predicting the future by ignoring the present.

You have a back ground in psychology- though I don't know much about psychology, I suspect that if you would submit a prognosis for a patient, you would carefully examine the history of the patient before he came to your office. Even before he started talking to the lamp post.

It is why people learn history- to enable them to find the patterns that will help predict the future.

...I must assume some of the players may have the same handicap. Based on the Thai education system that idea is not too far fetched.

Add to that their chosen vocation (politics) and I sure agree with you on that one John.

[hammered]

It seems like there could be some interesting developments over the go slow on investigating the previous regime: The Bangkok Post seems to be intimating that the PMs position is not so secure:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/02Apr2007_news01.php

Then we have the PAD threatening to expose PTV for what it is in the form of public demonstrations:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/04/02...es_30030861.php

And of course that is all in the context of the very heavily monied up PTV/TRT becoming more active as the court cases against them move closer, their earstwhile allies desert them and their up country power bases start to erode.

Interesting times.

[John K]

It seems like there could be some interesting developments over the go slow on investigating the previous regime: The Bangkok Post seems to be intimating that the PMs position is not so secure:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/02Apr2007_news01.php

Then we have the PAD threatening to expose PTV for what it is in the form of public demonstrations:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/04/02...es_30030861.php

And of course that is all in the context of the very heavily monied up PTV/TRT becoming more active as the court cases against them move closer, their earstwhile allies desert them and their up country power bases start to erode.

Interesting times.

At the moment I am not putting a lot of weight on what the Bangkok Post has to say. If you remember the runway cracks that were never there, you can see a willow tree and not an oak when it comes to being a political pawn.

[hammered]

It seems like there could be some interesting developments over the go slow on investigating the previous regime: The Bangkok Post seems to be intimating that the PMs position is not so secure:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/02Apr2007_news01.php

Then we have the PAD threatening to expose PTV for what it is in the form of public demonstrations:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/04/02...es_30030861.php

And of course that is all in the context of the very heavily monied up PTV/TRT becoming more active as the court cases against them move closer, their earstwhile allies desert them and their up country power bases start to erode.

Interesting times.

At the moment I am not putting a lot of weight on what the Bangkok Post has to say. If you remember the runway cracks that were never there, you can see a willow tree and not an oak when it comes to being a political pawn.

I know what you are saying on the BP and bending. However, the amount of support for someone who would be harder on Thaksino rfor the incumbent to be harder may well be increasing. The PTV demos also do not necessarily mean TRT are in a good position. It could equally be a sign of weakness that small and divisive demos had to be resorted to.

[Jai Dee]

RTP chief investigates website alleged to have committed lese-majeste

The Interim Royal Thai Police Commissioner General has ordered an investigation into the legality of a website collecting names to call for the removal of the Privy Councilor from his post.

Interim Royal Thai Police Commissioner General, Pol Gen Seripisuth Themeyawech (เสรีพิศุทธ์ เตมียาเวส), commented on the incident in which a website was created with the aim of collecting names to request royal endorsement in the removal of Privy Councilor Gen Prem Tinsulanonda (เปรม ติณสูลานนท์ ) from his post. Pol Gen Seripisuth said that removal of a Privy Councilor was not possible as His Majesty the King, with all due consideration and deliberation, has graciously appointed Gen Prem to the post.

The Interim Commissioner General revealed that an investigation would be conducted to determine whether the website is guilty of lese-majeste and defamation. Pol Gen Seripisuth has assigned the Special Branch to consider the case. He asked members of the public to not be fooled by parties with ill intents.

Pol Gen Seripisuth added that Prime Minister Gen Surayud Chulanon has given direct authority to officials to prosecute people guilty of inciting unrest in the nation.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 02 April 2007

[Plus]

The station is staffed with TRT people and in public opinion P stands for Pojamarn. No one gives them the benefit of doubt.

"Public opinion" of the vocal minorities of all extreme factions seem to dominate the show here, and have replaced due process. This is a sign of collapse of the status quo.

You mean someone seriously thinks that PTV and TRT are not connected?

"Vocal minorities of all extreme factions" is actually anti-coup protesters, and when they joined PTV rallies and signed anti-Prem petition they completely discredited themselves.

[John K]

Well perhaps PTV could mean their intent to set up TV monitors in from of urinals at some point in the future.

[John K]

PTV to sue Sondhi

PTV executives Monday filed a libel suit against media mogul Sondhi Limthongkul and the Democrat's Alongkorn Pollabutr, for alleging the cable TV station was involved in the signature campaign to oust Prem Tinsulanonda as Privy Council president.

Jatuporn Prompan, a cofounder of PTV, said its executives had no choice but to sue because his station was not behind the campaign. He also insisted he did not join with the Saturday Anti-Coup Group to oust Prem as the Manager website accused.

Following the rally, both Sondhi and Alongkorn Jatuporn said on Sondhi's www.manager.co.th that Jatuporn had lent his signature to the Saturday Anti-Coup group website, but had later withdrawn his name.

Jatuporn denied any involvement with the signature campaign.

"Sondhi and his website is attempting to destroy PTV by claiming the station wants to insult the monarchy," he said.

The Nation

[ColPyat]

The station is staffed with TRT people and in public opinion P stands for Pojamarn. No one gives them the benefit of doubt.

"Public opinion" of the vocal minorities of all extreme factions seem to dominate the show here, and have replaced due process. This is a sign of collapse of the status quo.

You mean someone seriously thinks that PTV and TRT are not connected?

"Vocal minorities of all extreme factions" is actually anti-coup protesters, and when they joined PTV rallies and signed anti-Prem petition they completely discredited themselves.

Vocal extremist minorities includes many of the anti coup groups, and all of the pro coup groups (a coup by itself is an extremist action).

I do not see how signing anti Prem petitions is discrediting anybody. Prem is head of the privy council, and accused by many respected academics (supported by evidence) of behind the scene fingerings, yet though seems to be beyond public scrutiny.

The connection between PTV and TRT is more than obvious (thank you, i am not completely daft), but the question here is more about allegations of financing which have not yet been supported by any shred of evidence. And secondly, as long as the PTV demonstrations are not treasonous or inciting mass violence, i do not see how they warrant Emergency Rule and more than the far bigger Sonthi demonstrations would have warranted Emergency Rule, even far less so.

The state has enough tools at hand to disperse demonstrators without going to the extreme of declaring Emergency Rule. Requests for calling in Emergency Rule when faced by demonstrations of not more than 3000 people is a panic reaction of an increasingly unpopular, inefficient and helpless illegal military junta, that is hardly able to hide anymore the bitter factional feuds so common to these sort of coups here in Thailand.

Even Thaksin, known for his authoritarianism, has not gone to this extreme when faced with much larger and for the public life debilitating demonstrations.

I wonder how so many people here, who were screaming for democracy and the right to demonstrate only less then a year ago, are now supporting far more authoritarian and undemocratic measurements to subdue discontent by a government that came to power not via democracy but an illegal coup, than the previous government did employ when faced with discontent, which came to power through elections.

[John K]

Here is just another example of a new set of dances with the devil. Everyone gets beat up more or less by bringing in possible disrespect to HRH with this very obvious intent to divide the country again. Meanwhile Thaksin is comfortably away from the scene. By the way if anyone forgot, that is another one of Thaksin’s signatures.

It almost sound like a CD skipped here and is in a bit of a loop. Same story themes in the news once again.

[plachon]

I wonder how so many people here, who were screaming for democracy and the right to demonstrate only less then a year ago, are now supporting far more authoritarian and undemocratic measurements to subdue discontent by a government that came to power not via democracy but an illegal coup, than the previous government did employ when faced with discontent, which came to power through elections.

Sometimes, just sometimes mind you, a good leader from a clean coup is better than a rotten leader from a dirty election. Thailand's past, present and maybe even future political situation tends to bear out this statement. In other words, "democracy" is often a mirage, without all the checks, balances and institutions in place to keep it in line.

And just to clarify, I don't support the coup-makers in any way, but on balance and under difficult circumstances (borne out by this long thread), they are doing a better job at getting Thailand back on-track than their predecessors with their much more venal habits and disrespect of higher institutions. However, Mr T and his PTV/TRT mob is doing his utmost to make sure they don't succeed, thus pulling the country into even stormier waters than he had already steered it.

[John K]

I was just looking at a new clip in the Nation, but it looks like it is in process and may be more to add later. However is says the next PTV / TRT / Thaksin rally will be this Sunday.

Looking back at just how much this has escalated in the 72 hours after the last rally, it is frightening. People getting sued, mention of possible insults to HRH, suggestions that the PM may be in trouble because of a less than decisive approach. I am afraid to make a prediction because of the speed of all of this.

However based on the speed, and the arrogance of PTV / TRT / Thaksin completely ignoring the PM on the dates he gave, I can only see them as trying to use the fuel from the past 72 hours and what ever else will happen during the week. There is no reason for this except to incite and divide.

Because of that I still stand by my statement the Junta should have been given the go ahead to clamp down on Bangkok at least to the degree of what it was on prior to the lifting a few months ago.

Meanwhile where is Thaksin? I wonder what the political fallout will be from the host country he is in by launching attacks on the Thai government from that country. It occurs to me there was some sort of spat with Singapore not to long ago about just that. Certainly that is why he is laying low. Any comment from Thaksin whatsoever would trigger that.

Edited April 2, 2007 by John K

[Siripon]

The station is staffed with TRT people and in public opinion P stands for Pojamarn. No one gives them the benefit of doubt.

"Public opinion" of the vocal minorities of all extreme factions seem to dominate the show here, and have replaced due process. This is a sign of collapse of the status quo.

You mean someone seriously thinks that PTV and TRT are not connected?

"Vocal minorities of all extreme factions" is actually anti-coup protesters, and when they joined PTV rallies and signed anti-Prem petition they completely discredited themselves.

Vocal extremist minorities includes many of the anti coup groups, and all of the pro coup groups (a coup by itself is an extremist action).

I do not see how signing anti Prem petitions is discrediting anybody. Prem is head of the privy council, and accused by many respected academics (supported by evidence) of behind the scene fingerings, yet though seems to be beyond public scrutiny.

The connection between PTV and TRT is more than obvious (thank you, i am not completely daft), but the question here is more about allegations of financing which have not yet been supported by any shred of evidence. And secondly, as long as the PTV demonstrations are not treasonous or inciting mass violence, i do not see how they warrant Emergency Rule and more than the far bigger Sonthi demonstrations would have warranted Emergency Rule, even far less so.

The state has enough tools at hand to disperse demonstrators without going to the extreme of declaring Emergency Rule. Requests for calling in Emergency Rule when faced by demonstrations of not more than 3000 people is a panic reaction of an increasingly unpopular, inefficient and helpless illegal military junta, that is hardly able to hide anymore the bitter factional feuds so common to these sort of coups here in Thailand.

Even Thaksin, known for his authoritarianism, has not gone to this extreme when faced with much larger and for the public life debilitating demonstrations.

I wonder how so many people here, who were screaming for democracy and the right to demonstrate only less then a year ago, are now supporting far more authoritarian and undemocratic measurements to subdue discontent by a government that came to power not via democracy but an illegal coup, than the previous government did employ when faced with discontent, which came to power through elections.

Amongst the pro-coup groups are of course the PAD and today, colonel you should feel proud of them.

Mr Phiphob Tongchai, a labour leader and one of the pillars of the PAD, said he was disappointed with Khun Surayud's failure to take action against the military in charge of the Tak Bai tragedy.

Mr Suriyasai also chided the PM for tardiness in dealing with the corruption in Thaksin's government.

No doubt you support their earnest attempts to clean up Thai politics.

It's a tragedy the Pojaman TV station has failed to ever mention the accusations of corruption facing nearly all Thaksin's cabinet! I'm sure if they truly believe in democracy they must point out the necessity of transparent government.

Or is it really true that when faced with the photo of the PTV leaders meeting Thaksin in Peking published in Matichon and Khao Sot it's as they say and they had just come to say goodbye?! LOL.

[ColPyat]

Sometimes, just sometimes mind you, a good leader from a clean coup is better than a rotten leader from a dirty election. Thailand's past, present and maybe even future political situation tends to bear out this statement. In other words, "democracy" is often a mirage, without all the checks, balances and institutions in place to keep it in line.

And just to clarify, I don't support the coup-makers in any way, but on balance and under difficult circumstances (borne out by this long thread), they are doing a better job at getting Thailand back on-track than their predecessors with their much more venal habits and disrespect of higher institutions. However, Mr T and his PTV/TRT mob is doing his utmost to make sure they don't succeed, thus pulling the country into even stormier waters than he had already steered it.

I really do not see how the present government is doing a good job in getting the country "back on track".

If you care to look at the dire situation in the south - you will find that it is even worse than under Thaksin, and that the people of the three provinces, both Muslim and Buddhist, are deeply disappointed by the lack of action of the present government.

The drug situation is worsening rapidly, both at the borders and in the cities.

The only thing that has been so far achieved, besides a few rather irrelevant cases against Thaksin's family, is that the military got a far higher budget, and that the ISOC has been re-activated with powers beyond parliamentary scrutiny.

Oh, yes, and i nearly forgot, we have now an economic policy that because of its royal connection cannot be criticized in public without fear of lese majeste. And yes, lunacies from the usual extremists such as introducing Buddhism as a national religion are given earnest consideration, regardless its foreseeable negative effects on the many minorities of Thailand.

So far, sadly, Thailand has managed to lose all international respect. If you are familiar with diplomatic circles, who generally are almost always more than positive about the countries they are stationed, you would be surprised by the very negative comments you get to hear nowadays.

No, we did not get a "good" leader. What we got is a smooth talking and entirely ineffective PM increasingly at odds with a junta riddled with Thai military typical factional infighting.

[ColPyat]

Amongst the pro-coup groups are of course the PAD and today, colonel you should feel proud of them.

Mr Phiphob Tongchai, a labour leader and one of the pillars of the PAD, said he was disappointed with Khun Surayud's failure to take action against the military in charge of the Tak Bai tragedy.

Mr Suriyasai also chided the PM for tardiness in dealing with the corruption in Thaksin's government.

No doubt you support their earnest attempts to clean up Thai politics.

It's a tragedy the Pojaman TV station has failed to ever mention the accusations of corruption facing nearly all Thaksin's cabinet! I'm sure if they truly believe in democracy they must point out the necessity of transparent government.

Or is it really true that when faced with the photo of the PTV leaders meeting Thaksin in Peking published in Matichon and Khao Sot it's as they say and they had just come to say goodbye?! LOL.

As i said, i do not support PTV protests in any way. Nevertheless, i would prefer to have them silenced with clear evidence of financial transactions etc, and not just the usual unproven allegations. Photos are contributing evidence, but can say many things.

The PAD unfortunately, especially Sondhi L., has done already far too much damage by mixing accusations based on reality with products of a sick fantasy, such as the Finland Declaration etc.

And yes, if Khun Phiphop has chided the PM over his extremely damaging inaction over Tak Bai, and the almost laughable way of dealing with TRT corruption, than i would support those statements. Nevertheless, he should have thought before with what sort of factions of the Thai elite he decided to go to bed with, and what damage that coupling has done to him and the Thai People's Movement.

[Siripon]

Sometimes, just sometimes mind you, a good leader from a clean coup is better than a rotten leader from a dirty election. Thailand's past, present and maybe even future political situation tends to bear out this statement. In other words, "democracy" is often a mirage, without all the checks, balances and institutions in place to keep it in line.

And just to clarify, I don't support the coup-makers in any way, but on balance and under difficult circumstances (borne out by this long thread), they are doing a better job at getting Thailand back on-track than their predecessors with their much more venal habits and disrespect of higher institutions. However, Mr T and his PTV/TRT mob is doing his utmost to make sure they don't succeed, thus pulling the country into even stormier waters than he had already steered it.

I really do not see how the present government is doing a good job in getting the country "back on track".

If you care to look at the dire situation in the south - you will find that it is even worse than under Thaksin, and that the people of the three provinces, both Muslim and Buddhist, are deeply disappointed by the lack of action of the present government.

The drug situation is worsening rapidly, both at the borders and in the cities.

The only thing that has been so far achieved, besides a few rather irrelevant cases against Thaksin's family, is that the military got a far higher budget, and that the ISOC has been re-activated with powers beyond parliamentary scrutiny.

Oh, yes, and i nearly forgot, we have now an economic policy that because of its royal connection cannot be criticized in public without fear of lese majeste. And yes, lunacies from the usual extremists such as introducing Buddhism as a national religion are given earnest consideration, regardless its foreseeable negative effects on the many minorities of Thailand.

So far, sadly, Thailand has managed to lose all international respect. If you are familiar with diplomatic circles, who generally are almost always more than positive about the countries they are stationed, you would be surprised by the very negative comments you get to hear nowadays.

No, we did not get a "good" leader. What we got is a smooth talking and entirely ineffective PM increasingly at odds with a junta riddled with Thai military typical factional infighting.

What action do you propose for the south?

Regarding drugs, do you mean less dealers and their suspects are being killed?

So the cases filed against The Commerce Minister Watana, upcoming against Suriya, Thaksin and possibly Somkit are irrelevant?

When did Thaksin ever care about parliamentary scrutiny, the man dissolved Parliament to avoid it!

Calls for Buddhism as the national religion are made periodically by certain senators, MPs, it has nothing to do with this government.

And as for diplomatic circles, Khun Surayud may be seen as ineffective, but he's certainly more respected than Thaksin, I haven't heard any western governments calling for Thaksin's' speedy legitimate return to power'.

[Plus]

As i said, i do not support PTV protests in any way. Nevertheless, i would prefer to have them silenced with clear evidence of financial transactions etc, and not just the usual unproven allegations. Photos are contributing evidence, but can say many things.

As you said yourself it is BLOODY OBVIOUS that PTV is Thaksin's mouthpeace. Are you telling us that the generals should sent AEC on its trail? Wait until the collect the evidence, invesitgate, summon witnesses, etc before they take any action or prohibit the rally?

If you look a few pages back, I said that generals lifted the martial law when Thaksin's supporters ceased to be a threat. If they come back, the martial law might be returned as well. In the end Surayud and BMA managed to keep the situation under control and emergency decree was not necessary. Wasn't it a good thing? What more do you want? It appears that you joined this thread a week late, skipped the first ten pages and started arguing about trains that had sailed.

The PAD unfortunately, especially Sondhi L., has done already far too much damage by mixing accusations based on reality with products of a sick fantasy, such as the Finland Declaration etc.

Have you, personally, been on that infamous trip to Finland? If not, then why are you so sure it didn't exist? Everything Thaksin has done so far fits into that declaration. What do you think it is? An official document with TRT seals and signatures? Or do you think the whole story was completely made up from he start?

How is it related to this thread anyway? Or do you just plug in "sick fantasy" accusations at every opportunity, hoping it would register but won't get challenged.

Edited April 2, 2007 by Plus

[JacknDanny]

The station is staffed with TRT people and in public opinion P stands for Pojamarn. No one gives them the benefit of doubt.

"Public opinion" of the vocal minorities of all extreme factions seem to dominate the show here, and have replaced due process. This is a sign of collapse of the status quo.

You mean someone seriously thinks that PTV and TRT are not connected?

"Vocal minorities of all extreme factions" is actually anti-coup protesters, and when they joined PTV rallies and signed anti-Prem petition they completely discredited themselves.

Vocal extremist minorities includes many of the anti coup groups, and all of the pro coup groups (a coup by itself is an extremist action).

I do not see how signing anti Prem petitions is discrediting anybody. Prem is head of the privy council, and accused by many respected academics (supported by evidence) of behind the scene fingerings, yet though seems to be beyond public scrutiny.

The connection between PTV and TRT is more than obvious (thank you, i am not completely daft), but the question here is more about allegations of financing which have not yet been supported by any shred of evidence. And secondly, as long as the PTV demonstrations are not treasonous or inciting mass violence, i do not see how they warrant Emergency Rule and more than the far bigger Sonthi demonstrations would have warranted Emergency Rule, even far less so.

The state has enough tools at hand to disperse demonstrators without going to the extreme of declaring Emergency Rule. Requests for calling in Emergency Rule when faced by demonstrations of not more than 3000 people is a panic reaction of an increasingly unpopular, inefficient and helpless illegal military junta, that is hardly able to hide anymore the bitter factional feuds so common to these sort of coups here in Thailand.

Even Thaksin, known for his authoritarianism, has not gone to this extreme when faced with much larger and for the public life debilitating demonstrations.

I wonder how so many people here, who were screaming for democracy and the right to demonstrate only less then a year ago, are now supporting far more authoritarian and undemocratic measurements to subdue discontent by a government that came to power not via democracy but an illegal coup, than the previous government did employ when faced with discontent, which came to power through elections.

Interesting first paragraph!!

'accused by many respected academics (supported by evidence).............'

Who, what, where, and when?????????????

What evidence would you like to produce to show that this statement is true?

[ColPyat]

What action do you propose for the south?

Regarding drugs, do you mean less dealers and their suspects are being killed?

So the cases filed against The Commerce Minister Watana, upcoming against Suriya, Thaksin and possibly Somkit are irrelevant?

When did Thaksin ever care about parliamentary scrutiny, the man dissolved Parliament to avoid it!

Calls for Buddhism as the national religion are made periodically by certain senators, MPs, it has nothing to do with this government.

And as for diplomatic circles, Khun Surayud may be seen as ineffective, but he's certainly more respected than Thaksin, I haven't heard any western governments calling for Thaksin's' speedy legitimate return to power'.

Regarding the south, unfortunately the point of no return has passed, in my opinion, and we will most definitely see an ethnic/religious war.

The last and best opportunities to contain the problem to an insurgency would have been by Surayud bringing the officers on the ground responsible for Tak Bai to court, and by Prem accepting the recommendation of the NRC to use Yawi as a parallel official language in the three provinces.

The south still lacks coordination and suffers from tremendous corruption in the armed forces. The upper ranks of the army are still oblivious to the almost imminent war there, and treat the problem as an insurgency against the state, while the officers at the ground are fighting a loosing battle for trust in the governments good intentions under the population. Both Muslim and Buddhist population, even though increasingly diametrically opposed, have no faith left in the government.

And no, your sarcy remark relating to Thaksin's drugwar killings is not what i meant. But at least the troops busy at supressing the trafficking at the Laotian border should be paid their regular food allowances so they can do their work, and not like now, having to gather for food instead of working because their allowances are paid often months too late.

Law enforcement nowadays is mostly busy with supervising "undercurrents", reaching such idiocies that i have observed demonstrations of less than a 100 people being under surveillance by more than 50 cops and military officers from several different agencies.

It is rather well known that disproportionate resources are given to the surveillance and surpression of dissident political opinions while the regular and more important areas, such as drugs, have suffered from lack of attention and personnel.

[ColPyat]

Or do you think the whole story was completely made up from he start?

Yes, i believe that it was completely made up. There is no shred of evidence that verifies this outlandish conspiracy theory of a meeting in Finland planning to topple the monarchy, and should be treated in par with alien abductions and the flat earth society.

[ColPyat]

Interesting first paragraph!!

'accused by many respected academics (supported by evidence).............'

Who, what, where, and when?????????????

What evidence would you like to produce to show that this statement is true?

I am tired of constantly reposting the same links to papers i have already several times in the past. So far you didn't read them, why would you do so now?

If you are that interested, make a search through my posts and read the links i have posted.

[John K]

As far as what the PM did I truly can’t hold him at fault. In hindsight his error was taking PTV / TRT / Thaksin at face value on what their complaint was. In this case it was the date of the elections. Based on that no matter what the PM does PTV / TRT / Thaksin will simply change their reason and carry on with the rally.

That truly only leaves one plan of action to stop them unless I am missing something. That action would be to give the power to the Junta to clamp down on them.

[Plus]

Or do you think the whole story was completely made up from he start?

Yes, i believe that it was completely made up. There is no shred of evidence that verifies this outlandish conspiracy theory of a meeting in Finland planning to topple the monarchy, and should be treated in par with alien abductions and the flat earth society.

In addition to Sondhi, Thaksin sued two senators and two academics and a dozen of journalists who published the story in various newspapers in installements over about a week.

"Even though Thaksin and his aides took a vacation in Finland in 1997, only a gang of shysters could twist the holiday into a smear," the spokesman said."

I believe "the spokesman" here is Chatuporn [of PTV!!!], but it could have been Colpyat, or at least you are taking that role now.

[blaze]

Or do you think the whole story was completely made up from he start?

Yes, i believe that it was completely made up. There is no shred of evidence that verifies this outlandish conspiracy theory of a meeting in Finland planning to topple the monarchy, and should be treated in par with alien abductions and the flat earth society.

In addition to Sondhi, Thaksin sued two senators and two academics and a dozen of journalists who published the story in various newspapers in installements over about a week.

"Even though Thaksin and his aides took a vacation in Finland in 1997, only a gang of shysters could twist the holiday into a smear," the spokesman said."

I believe "the spokesman" here is Chatuporn [of PTV!!!], but it could have been Colpyat, or at least you are taking that role now.

Was it not Manager Magazine that published the initial story? Was any further credibility (ie evidence, proof) lent to the story by the other outlets that picked it up? Or by the sued senators and the two academics?