Ready for change? Labour unveils 'radical' manifesto

[chilly07]

Having worked for a Housing Association set up by the Jewish Community in Haringey and Islington I can personally vouch that Jeremy is an Inspiration to us all. If the UK were so fortunate as to have him as Prime Minister I would feel the need to return to the UK to live out my remaining years. My heart soared when I saw his latest manifesto!

[steve187]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Students, people on low wages, people who can’t afford a home, people waiting for medical care or a doctor appointment, people relying on food banks, people working a full time job but not earning enough to live and people who are sick of Tory/Lib-Dem austerity and the damage it’s done to their lives and the nation. Hello 

 

Those kind of people.

too many students getting worthless in the real world degrees.

the spongers and i can not be bothered to work types, wanting everything handed to them on a plate, 

the NHS will get better when all the never had any health care before EU citizens have stopped arriving, 

 the minimum wages is what it is, if you take a job at minimum wage then you know what you are getting, Austerity needed to be done, who ever was in, 

[RuamRudy]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

What about the Jews who are proud Labour members, a lot of Jews think that Corbyn is unfit to lead the Labour party and he has made little or no effort to cleanse the Labour party of its antisemitism.

I have no more of an idea of the motivations of those Jews who criticise him than I do those who defend him, but I am reasonably confident that a significant number of non-Jews who criticise him and the Labour party are not doing so because they are particularly concerned about anti-Semitism or about human rights in general. 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I have no more of an idea of the motivations of those Jews who criticise him than I do those who defend him, but I am reasonably confident that a significant number of non-Jews who criticise him and the Labour party are not doing so because they are particularly concerned about anti-Semitism or about human rights in general. 

I'm sure it's pretty obvious why some Jews critisize him, whilst some Jews may like some of Labours manifesto (getting back on topic) I'm pretty sure they are not defending Corbyn as such.

 

Do you think that Corbyn as being leader of the Labour Party could do more to rid the party of antisemitism, sometimes I wonder if Corbyn actually knows what antisemitism is.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

I'm sure it's pretty obvious why some Jews critisize him, whilst some Jews may like some of Labours manifesto (getting back on topic) I'm pretty sure they are not defending Corbyn as such.

 

It is the very front of these guys' website - a photo of JC.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/

 

An interesting article linked on the front page:

As a British Jew I’m not fearful of a Corbyn government but I’m horrified at how antisemitism is being used against him

by Robert A. H. Cohen, Patheos

 

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

Do you think that Corbyn as being leader of the Labour Party could do more to rid the party of antisemitism, sometimes I wonder if Corbyn actually knows what antisemitism is.

I wonder the same question I asked yesterday on a similar thread - where is the outrage from non Jews in respect to the Tory party's shameful, endemic anti Islamic position? Where is the outrage at Johnson's racist, homophobic and anti islamic outbursts, which are matter of record, not tenuously linked to him. 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Doowat said:

To chomper Higgot - How is continued mass immigration going to help these people you mention, then? Corbyn and his crew are for much more of it.

Link to continued Corbyn/Labour’s mass immigration policy ?

[Chomper Higgot]

46 minutes ago, steve187 said:

too many students getting worthless in the real world degrees.

the spongers and i can not be bothered to work types, wanting everything handed to them on a plate, 

the NHS will get better when all the never had any health care before EU citizens have stopped arriving, 

 the minimum wages is what it is, if you take a job at minimum wage then you know what you are getting, Austerity needed to be done, who ever was in, 

I hope you’re missive above isn’t evidence of any claim to be better than those you criticize.

 

 

[vogie]

21 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

It is the very front of these guys' website - a photo of JC.

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/

 

An interesting article linked on the front page:

As a British Jew I’m not fearful of a Corbyn government but I’m horrified at how antisemitism is being used against him

by Robert A. H. Cohen, Patheos

 

I wonder the same question I asked yesterday on a similar thread - where is the outrage from non Jews in respect to the Tory party's shameful, endemic anti Islamic position? Where is the outrage at Johnson's racist, homophobic and anti islamic outbursts, which are matter of record, not tenuously linked to him. 

It seems very strange that 7 Labour MPs would leave the party they are loyal to, claiming that the Party is antisemitic, and I repeat has Corbyn done enough. I just wonder if they were making these accusations up, I suspect not.

 

Some Jews are still voting for Corbyn’s Labour — they explain why

A recent JC poll found only 7 per cent of Jews would vote Labour. Ben Weich asks them why.

 

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/some-jews-are-still-voting-for-corbyn-s-labour-they-explain-why-1.492881

 

 

Where is the outrage at Johnson's racist, homophobic and anti islamic outbursts, which are matter of record, not tenuously linked to him. 

Boris Johnson at the time when he made his 'letterbox' remark was actually defending the right of Muslim woman to wear the burqua, but I do acknowledge his colourfull use of the letterbox remark was ill timed. But I don't think for one moment that Boris is a racist or an Islamophobe, it does however give the Toryphobes some ammunition to use againgst him.

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

It seems very strange that 7 Labour MPs would leave the party they are loyal to, claiming that the Party is antisemitic, and I repeat has Corbyn done enough. I just wonder if they were making these accusations up, I suspect not.

 

Some Jews are still voting for Corbyn’s Labour — they explain why

A recent JC poll found only 7 per cent of Jews would vote Labour. Ben Weich asks them why.

 

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/some-jews-are-still-voting-for-corbyn-s-labour-they-explain-why-1.492881

 

 

Where is the outrage at Johnson's racist, homophobic and anti islamic outbursts, which are matter of record, not tenuously linked to him. 

Boris Johnson at the time when he made his 'letterbox' remark was actually defending the right of Muslim woman to wear the burqua, but I do acknowledge his colourfull use of the letterbox remark was ill timed. But I don't think for one moment that Boris is a racist or an Islamophobe, it does however give the Toryphobes some ammunition to use againgst him.

 

 

 

We’re better to go to find anti Corbyn accusations than the source of so much of the campaign against him.

 

The Jewish Chronicle would rather the UK did not have a PM who has for decades spoken out against Israel’s abuses against the Palestinians.

 

I get that.

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

It seems very strange that 7 Labour MPs would leave the party they are loyal to, claiming that the Party is antisemitic, and I repeat has Corbyn done enough. I just wonder if they were making these accusations up, I suspect not.

 

Some Jews are still voting for Corbyn’s Labour — they explain why

A recent JC poll found only 7 per cent of Jews would vote Labour. Ben Weich asks them why.

 

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/some-jews-are-still-voting-for-corbyn-s-labour-they-explain-why-1.492881

 

 

Where is the outrage at Johnson's racist, homophobic and anti islamic outbursts, which are matter of record, not tenuously linked to him. 

Boris Johnson at the time when he made his 'letterbox' remark was actually defending the right of Muslim woman to wear the burqua, but I do acknowledge his colourfull use of the letterbox remark was ill timed. But I don't think for one moment that Boris is a racist or an Islamophobe, it does however give the Toryphobes some ammunition to use againgst him.

 

 

 

We are getting a bit off topic, but there is no doubt about (1) islamaphobia in the Tory party (poll finds widespread Islamophobia among Conservative Party members); (2) Johnson's history of speaking of 'piccaninies' with 'watermelon smiles'; calling homosexuals 'bumboys', racially abusing black people (Natalie Rowe, for example).

So given the above, I would expect our Human Rights loving posters to be equally as vociferous in their outrage towards the Tories - in fact moreso, given the very serious nature of the facts, not innuendo and smears.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

We are getting a bit off topic, but there is no doubt about (1) islamaphobia in the Tory party (poll finds widespread Islamophobia among Conservative Party members); (2) Johnson's history of speaking of 'piccaninies' with 'watermelon smiles'; calling homosexuals 'bumboys', racially abusing black people (Natalie Rowe, for example).

So given the above, I would expect our Human Rights loving posters to be equally as vociferous in their outrage towards the Tories - in fact moreso, given the very serious nature of the facts, not innuendo and smears.

They say actions speak louder than words and Corbyns actions are far more questionable than Johnsons words, the only terrorist sympathizer Boris has shared a stage with, is Corbyn himself.

 

Anyway the Institute of Fiscal Studies has said that Labours manifesto is "colossal" and "not credible"

 

 

 

 

[AlexRich]

8 hours ago, transam said:

I noted Lord Alan Sugar used the word "Communist" when talking about Corbyn, which is a word that went through my head in the past, regarding the Labour leader..

Lord Sugar also promised to leave the UK if Corby becomes PM..????

The tug of the matter is that is what Corbyn is, a Communist in Socialist clothing, as is John McDonnell. 

 

They think that the State can allocate resources for the benefit of the poorest in society ... and it can only up to the point where there’s no more wealth being created. So you end up with overbloated nationalised industries and a high tax economy that sucks taxpayers dry, unsustainable debt levels and ultimately a bankrupt economy when the party’s over. Levels of inward investment and business start ups simply dry up. Meanwhile the billionaires that are supposedly to pay for it all are safely tucked away in Monaco. Capital flight crashes GB and prices soar. Welcome to the United Kingdom of Venezuela.

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

It seems very strange that 7 Labour MPs would leave the party they are loyal to, claiming that the Party is antisemitic, and I repeat has Corbyn done enough. I just wonder if they were making these accusations up, I suspect not.

 

Some Jews are still voting for Corbyn’s Labour — they explain why

A recent JC poll found only 7 per cent of Jews would vote Labour. Ben Weich asks them why.

 

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/some-jews-are-still-voting-for-corbyn-s-labour-they-explain-why-1.492881

 

 

Where is the outrage at Johnson's racist, homophobic and anti islamic outbursts, which are matter of record, not tenuously linked to him. 

Boris Johnson at the time when he made his 'letterbox' remark was actually defending the right of Muslim woman to wear the burqua, but I do acknowledge his colourfull use of the letterbox remark was ill timed. But I don't think for one moment that Boris is a racist or an Islamophobe, it does however give the Toryphobes some ammunition to use againgst him.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

We are getting a bit off topic, but there is no doubt about (1) islamaphobia in the Tory party (poll finds widespread Islamophobia among Conservative Party members); (2) Johnson's history of speaking of 'piccaninies' with 'watermelon smiles'; calling homosexuals 'bumboys', racially abusing black people (Natalie Rowe, for example).

So given the above, I would expect our Human Rights loving posters to be equally as vociferous in their outrage towards the Tories - in fact moreso, given the very serious nature of the facts, not innuendo and smears.

I think it's a case of "No smoke without fire" for both parties here. Attempts to suggest that one is in some way less bad than the other are misguided, they are different in ways it is true.

The Anti Islam one* has strong elements of racism behind it, and words certainly can hurt you as they lead to actions.

The anti semitic one is largely driven by disgust (Shared by decent people everywhere in the world) at the ethnic cleansing directed at the Palestinians. Corbyn is not an anti-semite per se, or indeed a racist at all. However there are a significant number of supporters (Albeit a fringe group) who have crossed the line from revulsion at Israel's actions into what is essentially racism. The Labour party has not dealt with these people either promptly or effectively - can we just be honest about this-  which has caused a split in the party, and alienated many Jewish former lifelong supporters. Are they all deceived by the anti Corbyn press, all of them, really?

 

The main topic is the Labour party manifesto, it has many very good ideas and attempts to role back many of the injustices heaped on the poor by years of uncaring Tory government. However did they have to go for the full monty, why re-nationalize so much at such a vast cost so soon. Hostages to fortune on a stupid scale. The Labour Party won in 97, partly because Brown said he would stick to Tory spending plans for the first two years. This totally took the wind out of the Tory attempts to label LP as spending crazy. Subtlety and Guile are utterly beyond this current LP, win first, then carry out your plans when you can afford them. 

 

*I try to avoid the use of the Phobia word, it has been abused to death, it real meaning relates to a serious medical/mental condition.

 

"his 'letterbox' remark was actually defending the right of Muslim woman to wear the burqua,"  No please,????????????  Boris the randy buffoon defending the rights of any women, especially ones who do not expose themselves for his delectation, you are having a laugh. 

[Baerboxer]

9 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I have never voted Labour in my life, and thankfully I have a far better alternative to the Nasty Party than either Labour or the Lib Dems, but it is interesting that all the criticisms of Corbyn are at a personal level rather than a critique of his policies. Could it be that our more vocal TV opponents of Corbyn are happy to let the right wing media in the UK do their thinking for them?

 

Voting for the Greens then?

[Baerboxer]

9 hours ago, wombat said:

it doesn't matter what he says...history shows us what politicians say and what they do are two different things once they have the reigns of power.
The people of UK should be going to the polls with only one thing in mind....

 

Corbyn has been a lifelong hater of the EU - now he's seemingly changed his mind, wanting to negotiate a new deal which would bind the UK closer to the EU than either May or Boris's <deleted> deals and with no power.

 

Corbyn has been stating he'd scrap the UK's nuclear deterrent and has never been a NATO supporter. Now he's promising to renew Trident, maintain the nuclear deterrent and promise to spend at least 2% GDP on defense. 

 

Corbyn actively and loudly supported and praised the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah. Now he's pictured chatting with Para veterans after the Service of Remembrance and wearing a poppy.

 

Corbyn has been loudly saying the Muslim's rights must be respected. But nothing about Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and Christians. He was very quiet about fighting anti-semetism in the Labour Party and continually denies he's anti-semitic but only ever talks about "Muslim's rights". 

 

Corbyn is a complete hypocrite who will say anything, promise anything, and do anything if he thinks it will win him votes. He desperate to get the PM's job. At 70 he knows times running out to smash the country he despises.

 

Should he and his new image building PR propaganda team manage to con enough voters and elect him with a majority, then just watch the policies all magically change.

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

We’re better to go to find anti Corbyn accusations than the source of so much of the campaign against him.

 

The Jewish Chronicle would rather the UK did not have a PM who has for decades spoken out against Israel’s abuses against the Palestinians.

 

I get that.

 

All British people should remember this IRA loving scumbag who is reluctant to stand for his own national anthem and who protested outside a trial of an IRA bomber denouncing the trial as a "show trial".

 

He's a dangerous lunatic whose being given a make over by the PR team just to get him elected.

[Baerboxer]

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Lord Sugar is one of the people who would be required to pay more taxes.

 

Yet to be seen, he made his fortune in the UK but objects to paying his fair share back.

 

Would he flounce?

 

I doubt it, he’s a nobody outside the UK.

 

Who decides what constitutes " a fair share" ? 

 

You, the EU socialist club, Corbyn and Marxist McDonnell? 

 

I wonder where the millionaire (billionaire?) ex banker Mrs. Corbyn keeps her wealth which is seemingly greater than the millionaire husbands? Check out how much her business sells coffee for per kg compared to what the impoverished farmers are paid. Ah, that's socialism for! Do as we say, not as we do. And realize that some are more equal!

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

All British people should remember this IRA loving scumbag who is reluctant to stand for his own national anthem and who protested outside a trial of an IRA bomber denouncing the trial as a "show trial".

 

He's a dangerous lunatic whose being given a make over by the PR team just to get him elected.

All British people should remember Corbyn’s life long opposition to illegal wars and belief that the UK/Irish conflict could only be solved by diplomacy. It’s also not a bad idea to remember his opposition to the Tory/Lib-Dem austerity.

 

Oh look, the UK should never have joined those oil wars Corbyn opposed, the UK/Irish conflict was resolved with diplomacy and Austerity has wrecked havoc with British society, massively increasing poverty and the social problems that come with poverty.

 

 

[Chazar]

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

people who can’t afford a home

insert, people  unwilling to work hard and save for years to get that home instead of the "right  now" generation.

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Who decides what constitutes " a fair share" ? 

 

You, the EU socialist club, Corbyn and Marxist McDonnell? 

 

I wonder where the millionaire (billionaire?) ex banker Mrs. Corbyn keeps her wealth which is seemingly greater than the millionaire husbands? Check out how much her business sells coffee for per kg compared to what the impoverished farmers are paid. Ah, that's socialism for! Do as we say, not as we do. And realize that some are more equal!

The Government decides what’s a fair share.

 

[Disclosure: I will pay more income tax under Labour’s tax proposals].

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Chazar said:

insert, people  unwilling to work hard and save for years to get that home instead of the "right  now" generation.

What like the millions of people who work full time but still rely on welfare to help them afford a roof over their head, food to eat and clothes to wear?

 

Or the hundreds of thousands relying on food banks to feed themselves? 

 

Or are you just trolling your ignorance of how millions of people live in today’s UK?

[AlexRich]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

All British people should remember Corbyn’s life long opposition to illegal wars and belief that the UK/Irish conflict could only be solved by diplomacy. It’s also not a bad idea to remember his opposition to the Tory/Lib-Dem austerity.

 

Oh look, the UK should never have joined those oil wars Corbyn opposed, the UK/Irish conflict was resolved with diplomacy and Austerity has wrecked havoc with British society, massively increasing poverty and the social problems that come with poverty.

 

 

 

Austerity came in following a Labour Government that stated on their exit "all the money has gone"!

 

The root of austerity lies with Labour's mishandling of the economy ... Brown's sell off of Gold at bargain basement rates, and his failure to put money aside to deal with a financial crisis. And Brown/Blair don't even get close to Corbyn and McDonnel when it comes to financial incompetence.

 

You fail to consider why austerity was brought in in the first place ... all roads lead to Labour incompetence.

 

 

 

[Chazar]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What like the millions of people who work full time but still rely on welfare to help them afford a roof over their head, food to eat and clothes to wear?

 

Or the hundreds of thousands relying on food banks to feed themselves? 

 

Or are you just trolling your ignorance of how millions of people live in today’s UK?

Millions of  lazy  buggers  yes.

[JAG]

9 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I have never voted Labour in my life, and thankfully I have a far better alternative to the Nasty Party than either Labour or the Lib Dems, but it is interesting that all the criticisms of Corbyn are at a personal level rather than a critique of his policies. Could it be that our more vocal TV opponents of Corbyn are happy to let the right wing media in the UK do their thinking for them?

 Personal criticism of the characters of the principal candidates for the post of Prime Minister is not exactly confined to Mr Corbyn. Mr Johnson certainly comes in for his share, on this forum and elsewhere some of it originating from the leadership of your "far better alternative"!

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Austerity came in following a Labour Government that stated on their exit "all the money has gone"!

 

The root of austerity lies with Labour's mishandling of the economy ... Brown's sell off of Gold at bargain basement rates, and his failure to put money aside to deal with a financial crisis. And Brown/Blair don't even get close to Corbyn and McDonnel when it comes to financial incompetence.

 

You fail to consider why austerity was brought in in the first place ... all roads lead to Labour incompetence.

 

 

 

The idea of the UK putting money aside for a financial crisis is fanciful nonsense.

 

Austerity was an option, borrowing to invest on infrastructure and development was another.

 

The Tories/Lib Dem chose Austerity and ignored the warnings of the damage it would do to UK society.

 

(Borrowing to bail out banks has never been a problem, though prosecuting bankers who wrecked the economy is apparently problematic - never mind the poor and those made poor can take the pain)

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Chazar said:

Millions of  lazy  buggers  yes.

Troll away.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, JAG said:

 Personal criticism of the characters of the principal candidates for the post of Prime Minister is not exactly confined to Mr Corbyn. Mr Johnson certainly comes in for his share, on this forum and elsewhere some of it originating from the leadership of your "far better alternative"!

I can’t for the life of me understand the unfair criticisms of Johnson, especially the invented stuff.

 

One only needs to keep in mind he’s an inveterate liar - not so much a criticism as an important fact.

[AlexRich]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The idea of the UK putting money aside for a financial crisis is fanciful nonsense.

 

Austerity was an option, borrowing to invest on infrastructure and development was another.

 

The Tories/Lib Dem chose Austerity and ignored the warnings of the damage it would do to UK society.

 

(Borrowing to bail out banks has never been a problem, though prosecuting bankers who wrecked the economy is apparently problematic - never mind the poor and those made poor can take the pain)

 

It's nothing of the sort, it's exactly what Lord Keynes recommended ... build up resources in the good times that can be applied during economic downturns. The problem is that Labour so-called Keynesians like Gordon Brown forgot that part ... they just focused on the part where Keynes suggested spending money.

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

26 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

It's nothing of the sort, it's exactly what Lord Keynes recommended ... build up resources in the good times that can be applied during economic downturns. The problem is that Labour so-called Keynesians like Gordon Brown forgot that part ... they just focused on the part where Keynes suggested spending money.

 

 

 

I’m not sure where you get that claim from.

 

The text book example of Keynsian economics in action is Roosevelt’s response to the Great Depression, massive investment in infrastructure followed by even bigger expenditure in war manufacturing, all funded by government borrowing, including loans extended to the British to buy American arms and supplies.

 

 

No pre saving, the Great Depression smashed and the expansion of the American middle class established.

 

Borrow cheap and spend on investment, or slash public spending.

 

The Tories/Lib-Dems chose the latter, the poor and those made poor can take the pain.

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Chomper Higgot

[cyril sneer]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

All British people should remember this IRA loving scumbag who is reluctant to stand for his own national anthem and who protested outside a trial of an IRA bomber denouncing the trial as a "show trial".

 

He's a dangerous lunatic whose being given a make over by the PR team just to get him elected.

thanks