Retirement Extension Non-Imm O-A - Health Insurance - What docs?

[TerraplaneGuy]

I understand that it's now necessary when getting an extension of stay for retirement to show proof of health insurance (minimum B40k oupatient, B400K inpatient coverage).  I go to Chaeng Wattana for my extensions.  If this requirement is now in effect (please advise if it's not) can anyone please tell me exactly what documentation is required?  Do you have to bring a full policy document, or is a coverage card good enough?  I have Aetna (formerly BUPA) Thailand health insurance and on their phone app I can display all my coverage details but I assume Immigration wants some paper.   

[glegolo]

Only if you have a Non Immigrant O-A you need to show health insurance. NOT if you have a Non Immigrant O..

 

glegolo

[ubonjoe]

Did you extend a entry from a non-o visa or or a non-oa visa?

I a non-o visa you do not need to worry about having health insurance.

[TerraplaneGuy]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

Did you extend a entry from a non-o visa or or a non-oa visa?

I a non-o visa you do not need to worry about having health insurance.

My original visa is Non-immigrant O-A.

 

[ubonjoe]

Does your health insurance meet the requirements to do the application?

 

More info is here. https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

You will need a certificate for the proof. 

When is you extension due?

[TerraplaneGuy]

16 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Does your health insurance meet the requirements to do the application?

 

More info is here. https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

You will need a certificate for the proof. 

When is you extension due?

Thanks.  I don't do my extension until January.  Do you know how long the certificate remains fresh?  By the way I already see a possible problem because my policy year starts in March but my extension expires in early February.  So the policy I can have certified will expire about a month after my extension date.  I won't be able to show insurance all the way through the following year.  I wonder how they expect us to deal with this?

 

I note the law you quoted is strange in that it refers to "buy a Thai health insurance online" which doesn't make sense since many of us buy it at the local office in person (as I do at Aetna) and why would Immigration care how you buy it, but I suspect it's either sloppy drafting or translating.  Presumably they mean get the certificate online.  I looked at the certificate.  So I have to download the certificate and take it to Aetna and have two of their directors sign it?  What a nuisance for them (and me)!  

Edited December 16, 2019 by TerraplaneGuy
correction

[ubonjoe]

36 minutes ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Thanks.  I don't do my extension until January.  Do you know how long the certificate remains fresh?  By the way I already see a possible problem because my policy year starts in March but my extension expires in early February.  So the policy I can have certified will expire about a month after my extension date.  I won't be able to show insurance all the way through the following year.  I wonder how they expect us to deal with this?

Not sure how it would work. If you have a existing policy they may be able to adjust your policy date to fit your extension date. I can recall a report of one of the companies being able to that by crediting the last month to the new one.

 

36 minutes ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

I note the law you quoted is strange in that it refers to "buy a Thai health insurance online" which doesn't make sense since many of us buy it at the local office in person (as I do at Aetna) and why would Immigration care how you buy it, but I suspect it's either sloppy drafting or translating. 

I think that requirement was meant to be for applying for a new OA visat at a embassy.

I think the change was only meant for applying for visas at a embassy and entry to the country using one issued on or after October 31st. But some how many offices think it is for extensions.

[TerraplaneGuy]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure how it would work. If you have a existing policy the may be able to adjust your policy date to fit your extension date. I recall a report of one of the companies being able to that by crediting the last month to the new one.

 

I think that requirement was meant to be for applying for a new OA visat at a embassy.

I think the change was only meant for applying for visas at a embassy and entry to the country using one issued on or after October 31st. But some how many offices think it is for extensions.

A number of third-party websites do say this medical insurance requirement applies to extensions as well as the original OA visa.

[Martyp]

Aetna Thailand is one of the companies on the tgia website 

 

https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

 

They should know all about the immigration requirement and be able to provide a certificate if you don’t already have it. Check the first page of your written policy documents package. Talk to them about renewing your policy early before you go to Immigration or about syncing the dates.

[TerraplaneGuy]

1 hour ago, Martyp said:

Aetna Thailand is one of the companies on the tgia website 

 

https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

 

They should know all about the immigration requirement and be able to provide a certificate if you don’t already have it. Check the first page of your written policy documents package. Talk to them about renewing your policy early before you go to Immigration or about syncing the dates.

Thanks I’ll ask them.  Meanwhile does anyone have experience extending an O-A at Chang Wattana recently and being asked for this certificate?

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, Martyp said:

Aetna Thailand is one of the companies on the tgia website 

 

https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

 

They should know all about the immigration requirement and be able to provide a certificate if you don’t already have it. Check the first page of your written policy documents package. Talk to them about renewing your policy early before you go to Immigration or about syncing the dates.

Sorry if I throw some potential cold water on this.

But the fact that you presently have an Aetna health-insurance policy, does not guarantee that that policy is actually thai-approved and that a Certificate will be issued for it stating that it meets the IO requirements for health-insurance. 

So better contact Aetna and before extending your policy to bring it in sync with your extension application, make sure that the policy is eligible for the Certificate. 

If yes > problem solved.

If no > consider whether the alternative thai-approved policy Aetna can offer, is a good deal compared with your present policy.  If not, you could keep your present policy and embark on the route to apply for a Non Imm O - retirement Visa that does NOT require health-insurance.

[Bogbrush]

There was a report a few weeks back of a member extending the OA with a correct Thai-issued policy and presenting the certificate, only to be told that the policy details hadn’t been captured within the Immigration computer system. This could well make sense - the issuing insurance company entering data as an hotel does with the TM30 - to prevent forged/scammed certs being presented.

 

Food for thought, and maybe a further question for Aetna...

[Deerculler]

21 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure how it would work. If you have a existing policy they may be able to adjust your policy date to fit your extension date. I can recall a report of one of the companies being able to that by crediting the last month to the new one.

 

I think that requirement was meant to be for applying for a new OA visat at a embassy.

I think the change was only meant for applying for visas at a embassy and entry to the country using one issued on or after October 31st. But some how many offices think it is for extensions.

That is what I have been trying to clarify.

[TerraplaneGuy]

19 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Sorry if I throw some potential cold water on this.

But the fact that you presently have an Aetna health-insurance policy, does not guarantee that that policy is actually thai-approved and that a Certificate will be issued for it stating that it meets the IO requirements for health-insurance. 

So better contact Aetna and before extending your policy to bring it in sync with your extension application, make sure that the policy is eligible for the Certificate. 

If yes > problem solved.

If no > consider whether the alternative thai-approved policy Aetna can offer, is a good deal compared with your present policy.  If not, you could keep your present policy and embark on the route to apply for a Non Imm O - retirement Visa that does NOT require health-insurance.

What would be required for the policy to be "Thai-approved"?  The published law (see post above) just requires Thai health insurance with certain minimum coverage.  I have that.  My policy is issued by Aetna Thailand, which is one of the listed companies on the website for this scheme.  So what could be missing?

Edited December 17, 2019 by TerraplaneGuy

[TerraplaneGuy]

2 hours ago, Bogbrush said:

There was a report a few weeks back of a member extending the OA with a correct Thai-issued policy and presenting the certificate, only to be told that the policy details hadn’t been captured within the Immigration computer system. This could well make sense - the issuing insurance company entering data as an hotel does with the TM30 - to prevent forged/scammed certs being presented.

 

Food for thought, and maybe a further question for Aetna...

Thanks - do you have a link to that post?  What thread?

[khm2412]

A word of warning. Not Chaeng Wattana admittedly. I upgraded my AETNA policy to include 40,000 THB outpatient cover. AETNA sent me the official certificate by secure e-mail. Yesterday at Tha Yang I attempted to renew my permission to stay based on a previous O-A visa, using the e-mailed certificate. Tha Yang Immigration refused this document, insisting that they had to have the original certificate signed by three company directors. A copy was not acceptable. The IO tried to suggest other visa types to me by way of being helpful, but I declined since the health insurance situation may well extend to other visas in the future. They stamped my passport with a one month under consideration stamp and I have to return when AETNA send me the original certificate by post. Apart from the certificate, I submitted my AETNA Membership card and the policy documents. I even asked the AETNA Head Office representative to speak direct to the IO on the phone, all to no avail. Another issue was that the IO wanted a receipt to prove I had paid for the insurance. I was able to show the receipt for one month only, since I pay monthly by direct debit. After some discussion, this was finally accepted.

Edited December 17, 2019 by khm2412
Additions.

[TerraplaneGuy]

1 minute ago, khm2412 said:

A word of warning. Not Chaeng Wattana admittedly. I upgraded my AETNA policy to include 40,000 THB outpatient cover. AETNA sent me the official certificate by secure e-mail. Yesterday at Tha Yang I attempted to renew my permission to stay based on a previous O-A visa, using the e-mailed certificate. Tha Yang Immigration refused this document, insisting that they had to have the original certificate signed by three company directors. A copy was not acceptable. The IO tried to suggest other visa types to me by way of being helpful, but I declined since the health insurance situation may well extend to other visas in the future. They stamped my passport with a one month under consideration stamp and I have to return when AETNA send me the original certificate by post.

Sadly I'm not surprised they insisted on an original.  Can I ask, what is the term of your policy and did they have any problem with it?  The problem I'm thinking of is, as I mentioned above, usually the policy year will not coincide with your extension year (in my case, for example, my extension expires each year in February but my policy in March), so it would not be possible for the certificate to cover the entire year of the coming extension.  Does yours?

[khm2412]

When I upgraded my policy to 40,000 THB Outpatient cover, I adjusted the policy date to coincide with my extension renewal date, so now both are the same.

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

What would be required for the policy to be "Thai-approved"?  The published law (see post above) just requires Thai health insurance with certain minimum coverage.  I have that.  My policy is issued by Aetna Thailand, which is one of the listed companies on the website for this scheme.  So what could be missing?

The TGIA website with the thai insurance-companies is somewhat misleading, because the 12 insurance-companies mentioned on the list are only approved for those policy-schemes they offer to the public that meet the IO requirements.  And when you have subsribed to one of their approved policy-schemes, that will allow the insurance-company to issue the Certificate that YOUR policy meets the requirements. 

As mentioned by another poster it seems that IO has access to a database in which the Certificates issued by the different insurance-companies are stored.  That would make it simple for the IOs to check whether the requirement has been met, because for sure they will not be screening your actual policy to see whether it complies.  And it will block submitting of fake certificates by creative OA Visa holders.

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, khm2412 said:

Tha Yang Immigration refused this document, insisting that they had to have the original certificate signed by three company directors. A copy was not acceptable.

So even if you DO comply with the health-insurance requirement, your IO is making things difficult!

Did you speak with the highest officer in charge to plead your case? 

Imo It's total nonsense that they ask for the original certificate,  A copy of the certificate would do, as it is only meant to make it easy for them to find your certificate in the database that contains all certificates submitted by the insurance-companies that meet the IO requirements.

A mess is the most friendly understatement that can be used for describing this shambles.

[khm2412]

The lady that does the document checking consulted the senior officer several times on my behalf, but to no avail. The e-mail certificate copy was dispatched using a high security website which required clicking several links in order to access the document, so obviously AETNA thought the copy was sufficient. Requiring three AETNA directors to personally sign hundreds of original documents for their policy holders seems a bit cumbersome to me.

[TigerandDog]

23 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Sorry if I throw some potential cold water on this.

But the fact that you presently have an Aetna health-insurance policy, does not guarantee that that policy is actually thai-approved and that a Certificate will be issued for it stating that it meets the IO requirements for health-insurance. 

So better contact Aetna and before extending your policy to bring it in sync with your extension application, make sure that the policy is eligible for the Certificate. 

If yes > problem solved.

If no > consider whether the alternative thai-approved policy Aetna can offer, is a good deal compared with your present policy.  If not, you could keep your present policy and embark on the route to apply for a Non Imm O - retirement Visa that does NOT require health-insurance.

Please advise where either Police Orders/Legislation say that individual policies/plans have to be approved. Pacific Cross are saying this is the case, BUT when asked to provide a copy of where they were advised this was the case, they've buried their heads in the sand and I haven't heard back from them on that. Based on information posted earlier in this thread, and information I received from Joe, ONLY the Thai Health Insurance Company has to be approved. The reason I raised the enquiry with PC & Joe was because they have a plan that exceeds the minimum requirements BUT they do NOT include it in the list of plans they are pushing for long term Non O-A based on retirement farangs to buy. I would have to wonder if the other approved health insurance companies are also attempting to exclude plans that meet/exceed the minimum requirements as their premiums are not as expensive, which means less profit for them.

[Bogbrush]

4 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Thanks - do you have a link to that post?  What thread?

I am afraid that I neither have the link nor indeed can remember the person who posted the comment; it was an obiter dictum within a fairly long message on the daily site regarding threads on OA extension and insurance and I only picked up on it after a second reading. It is, however, a salient point about which members would be well advised to speak to their insurance companies.

[Deerculler]

Who are the insurance companies that are approved?

[Peter Denis]

8 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

Please advise where either Police Orders/Legislation say that individual policies/plans have to be approved. Pacific Cross are saying this is the case, BUT when asked to provide a copy of where they were advised this was the case, they've buried their heads in the sand and I haven't heard back from them on that. Based on information posted earlier in this thread, and information I received from Joe, ONLY the Thai Health Insurance Company has to be approved. The reason I raised the enquiry with PC & Joe was because they have a plan that exceeds the minimum requirements BUT they do NOT include it in the list of plans they are pushing for long term Non O-A based on retirement farangs to buy. I would have to wonder if the other approved health insurance companies are also attempting to exclude plans that meet/exceed the minimum requirements as their premiums are not as expensive, which means less profit for them.

Indeed, the Police Order says nothing about approval of individual policies/plans.  

It only features the incorrect statement that the Non Imm OA Visa holder must buy a Thai health insurance online via the website longstay.tgia.org.

That's not possible, so an OA Visa holder that wants to buy a thai-approved health insurance needs to contact one of the 12 insurance-companies on the list.  Some of these don't even sell health-insurance.

One of the more interesting ones - for those that want to go that road - is PacificCross, and I distinctly remember that a TVF member posted an overview of their policy-schemes which they offer, and only some of them were in the 'approved for OA Visa' category.

So I presumed - but maybe I am wrong - that those other policies they offer were not approved.

Hope somebody can shed more light on this matter.

 

[Peter Denis]

14 minutes ago, Deerculler said:

Who are the insurance companies that are approved?

https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

[pitrevie]

43 minutes ago, Bogbrush said:

I am afraid that I neither have the link nor indeed can remember the person who posted the comment; it was an obiter dictum within a fairly long message on the daily site regarding threads on OA extension and insurance and I only picked up on it after a second reading. It is, however, a salient point about which members would be well advised to speak to their insurance companies.

 

 

[Deerculler]

This is becoming a worry.

Many, many of us will not be accepted by insurance companies.

It is also a concern when those who have the ability to self fund are not accepted.

Is this the way the govt. is saying: Go from Thailand all foreigner.

We don't want you.

Creepy feeling.

 

[dlclark97]

Yes the requirement DOES exist since 31 Oct 2019 for extension of stay based on a Non-Immigrant O-A visa and it does not matter how many times you have extended in the past.  Signs are posted to that effect at my local IO..  

[Kadilo]

I was at my local IO today checking in and I noticed a few new posters around the room listing requirements  for an extension, re entry etc but no mention of Insurance. So i asked the gentleman as he was doing the usual paperwork and he clarified for my extension next March I will need Insurance for my original Non OA before I apply. 
I was pretty sure anyhows but glad I asked for peace of mind. 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Kadilo