12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s see what the Tories visit upon the nation before we declare Labour destined for the dustbin of History.

The Queen will enlighten everyone this afternoon. You might as well mothball your campaign 'whistle' until 2024 ????

Edited December 19, 20196 yr by evadgib

To use a much touted statement they are dead in the ditch Tony how they managed not to see it coming blind as well????

Apparently the Labour front bench of Corbyn, Thornberry, Starmer, McDonnell and Abbott pictured earlier today have no idea what he is talking about

 

A post containing trolling representations of people's names has been removed.  If you do not want your post to be removed, then please spell people's name correctly. 

11 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

ehh Labour was built on socialist policies, and JC's were not 'looney left', I mean you can believe the utter bs in the billionaire owned press or you can look at the facts - what he was proposing was practically no different to what you find in other countries in Europe, especially Scandinavian countries.

 

It was because of Brexit that they lost. I think Brexit is idiotic, but the centrists of the party pushed him to talk about another referendum which turned off a lot of voters in the North who wanted Brexit. Blair is an idiot and a war criminal 

Right and wrong. 

The principles behind the LP manifesto were sound, and you are right it is not loony left policies. Unfortunately it was being sold by people who had no sense of balance between what they wanted to achieve in the long term, and what was attractive to the electorate in the short term. Once again they went way over the top and promised everything to everybody, to the point where the public just stopped believing it, believed we couldn't afford it, or got bored to death by it. Longest suicide note in history ring any bells? 

 

Blair is indeed a war criminal, (Although the competition is intense, and Kissinger would be my number one candidate, surprised that Blair didn't win a Nobel peace prize really). However he was certainly not an idiot. Labour under Blair were highly professional in how they went about fighting elections, and the face that they showed to the public was well managed. However much we dislike Blair he kept the Tories out of office for many years, which saved the country from massive social damage. This looney Len's idiotic choices have totally failed to do, and the damage of austerity is profound. 

 

I agree with your condemnation of the Tory gutter press, but sadly you appear to believe - by contrast -  in the deluded fact denying nonsense put out by the rump of Corbynistas, that it was all about Brexit. Hearing endless candidates saying that Corbyn was the most common reason by far given by former Labour voters - on the doorstep - that they would not vote Labour, is backed up by this poll. 

 

Ordinary people are not fools, quite beyond the unfair muck thrown at Corbyn in the MSM, is the fact that they saw through him. He is a man whose head is so full of noble principles that there is no room left for brains.  Corbyn is incapable of considering the possibility that he might be wrong. The fact that unspeakable toff scum like Bojo, who everyone knew was a liar, could defeat him so totally says it all.

11 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

ehh Labour was built on socialist policies, and JC's were not 'looney left', I mean you can believe the utter bs in the billionaire owned press or you can look at the facts - what he was proposing was practically no different to what you find in other countries in Europe, especially Scandinavian countries.

 

It was because of Brexit that they lost. I think Brexit is idiotic, but the centrists of the party pushed him to talk about another referendum which turned off a lot of voters in the North who wanted Brexit. Blair is an idiot and a war criminal 

 

Hmmm.

 

Borrowing billions and billions to fund massive spending; mass nationalization; tax increases for the wealthy and, if you read the detail, the not so wealthy; forcing businesses to give shares to employees; introducing a 4 day working week; scraping immigration laws and rules so allowing unchecked uncontrolled immigration; 

 

Len McCluskey summed it up nicely. An incontinent plethora of policies that promised everyone everything immediately.

 

And the passive image make-over the PR team on Corbyn just wasn't believed. People's memories are too long. Nor did keeping the likes of Abbott hidden away.

 

The results, especially in traditional die-hard Labour areas speak for themselves. Voters don't want the hard left and their state control policies.

8 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Right and wrong. 

The principles behind the LP manifesto were sound, and you are right it is not loony left policies. Unfortunately it was being sold by people who had no sense of balance between what they wanted to achieve in the long term, and what was attractive to the electorate in the short term. Once again they went way over the top and promised everything to everybody, to the point where the public just stopped believing it, believed we couldn't afford it, or got bored to death by it. Longest suicide note in history ring any bells? 

 

Blair is indeed a war criminal, (Although the competition is intense, and Kissinger would be my number one candidate, surprised that Blair didn't win a Nobel peace prize really). However he was certainly not an idiot. Labour under Blair were highly professional in how they went about fighting elections, and the face that they showed to the public was well managed. However much we dislike Blair he kept the Tories out of office for many years, which saved the country from massive social damage. This looney Len's idiotic choices have totally failed to do, and the damage of austerity is profound. 

 

I agree with your condemnation of the Tory gutter press, but sadly you appear to believe - by contrast -  in the deluded fact denying nonsense put out by the rump of Corbynistas, that it was all about Brexit. Hearing endless candidates saying that Corbyn was the most common reason by far given by former Labour voters - on the doorstep - that they would not vote Labour, is backed up by this poll. 

 

Ordinary people are not fools, quite beyond the unfair muck thrown at Corbyn in the MSM, is the fact that they saw through him. He is a man whose head is so full of noble principles that there is no room left for brains.  Corbyn is incapable of considering the possibility that he might be wrong. The fact that unspeakable toff scum like Bojo, who everyone knew was a liar, could defeat him so totally says it all.

 

Indeed.

 

And Corbyn is determined to ensure the leadership will remain in the hands of people from his Momentum faction.

 

Denial, denial and denial.

 

He just can't accept he lost or understand why.

 

Very much in that respect like Hilary Clinton. So sure they had it in the bag they assumed everyone would vote for them and misunderstood their own unpopularity.

Whether you like Tony Blair or not, he is 100% correct to say that Labour will never win another election with current policies. 

He has always been villified for supporting George Bush and therefore the Iraq war but still remains the only Labour leader to have won a general election since Harold Wilson back in 1976. In fact 3 successive elections, 2 of which were by record margins.

Meaning that the country will support Labour again but not until it chooses an electable leader with policies that appeal to the majority and not the few.

An uphill task considering the rabid tight wing press and the apparent partiality of the BBC, once respected for it's fairness to all sides but rightly criticised for it's perceived impartiality during the recent election.

13 hours ago, Denim said:

Ah.....its been said before but JC was the best leader the Tories have ever had.

 

Johnson was gifted a victory at the polls because Cornbyn and his friends failed to understand that hard left policies just won't wash with the home owning , holiday abroad, two car working class families any more.

 

 

I was not aware that Jesus was ever a conservative, an mp, or a prime minister?

Like him or loathe him Corbyn is a man of principle as opposed to Johnson who is a proven liar and a bottler who wasn’t even man enough to be interviewed by Andrew Neil <deleted> cos he knew the outcome. He hid the likes Moggy and all his closest allies away for the same reasons. 

Some of the MSM coverage was disgraceful, the depths they were prepared to go to re Corbyn was shameful but as usual the good old public love to believe what they read in The Sun etc. rather than call out Bully Boris for running scared. To his credit Corbyn never stopped to his level of personal attacks. 

 

Corbyn didn’t help himself with his position on Brexit nor the Labour Party with theirs. This was their biggest downfall. 
 

As for Blair, he just can’t stand being out of the limelight. A man of few principles who took the money and run after leaving public office. His opinion means jack to most Labour Party members only to his self indulgent self. 

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's not that they won that was the problem, the problem was that they wasted all the money and involved the country in a war they should not have been in. In short, they did not leave the country better than they found it.

That isn't the discussion at all in terms of this thread. It is about winning General Elections and Blair delivered on that. Looks like some Labour supporters would rather talk about something else.

7 hours ago, terryw said:

The thick stupid working class people in the North and Midlands voted Tory and all the Metropolitan Labour Elite can do is go around in circles blaming everyone but themselves.

Have you considered moving South?

5 hours ago, Kadilo said:

Like him or loathe him Corbyn is a man of principle as opposed to Johnson who is a proven liar and a bottler who wasn’t even man enough to be interviewed by Andrew Neil <deleted> cos he knew the outcome. He hid the likes Moggy and all his closest allies away for the same reasons. 

Some of the MSM coverage was disgraceful, the depths they were prepared to go to re Corbyn was shameful but as usual the good old public love to believe what they read in The Sun etc. rather than call out Bully Boris for running scared. To his credit Corbyn never stopped to his level of personal attacks. 

 

Corbyn didn’t help himself with his position on Brexit nor the Labour Party with theirs. This was their biggest downfall. 
 

As for Blair, he just can’t stand being out of the limelight. A man of few principles who took the money and run after leaving public office. His opinion means jack to most Labour Party members only to his self indulgent self. 

You mean Blair the most successful ever Labour leader in elections. I guess you prefer losers. Corbyn principled? You must be joking. Everything Blair said, leading up to the election was spot on. As for the useless Corbynista explanation that it was all about Brexit not so. So then, more of the same. So lose the next one as well.

Edited December 19, 20196 yr by SheungWan

Boris tried to engage Corbyn in some light rhetoric en route to the Queens speech, Corbyn totally blanked him, but I think that Corbyn did get out of the wrong side of the bed.????????

 

 

21 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Labour will change.

 

Meanwhile the UK is stuck with Johnson.

You still have no idea, do you?

 

The UK is NOT stuck with Johnson at all. They freely chose him and the Tories, over ALL the other parties combined.

 

All your negative posts about Johnson have come to naught.

 

Perhaps you need to take some time and consider a change yourself.

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

You still have no idea, do you?

 

The UK is NOT stuck with Johnson at all. They freely chose him and the Tories, over ALL the other parties combined.

 

All your negative posts about Johnson have come to naught.

 

Perhaps you need to take some time and consider a change yourself.

"Someone elses fault" springs to mind.

 

       Who will be the chosen one ,  to lead the Labour party , out of this massive defeat .?

         A very short , short list .

       My shilling is on Keir , a good socialist name ...

 

 

Edited December 19, 20196 yr by elliss

Yes the Labour party could go like the Social Credit party of Canada. Yes, yes there used

to be a Social Credit party, but not any more. same as the CCCPs. Oh the memories.

Geezer

On 12/19/2019 at 1:27 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Why? He committed the UK to a war based on deceit, and didn't leave when the lies were exposed. Every British soldier that died is down to him. As PM, the responsibility lies with him.

governments are behind violance all the time, they do what they fancy whenever they fancy regardless of deaths in the wake

nothing special with this ME affair

 

23 hours ago, puipuitom said:

I remember another PM, Chamberlain, who really thought he succeeded to get "peace in our times".

Imagine, the US /UK coalition forces found weapons of mass destruction just-in-time… how all other western leaders would have looked then...

It was pretty obvious to me, and many others at the time that the US was trying to make the facts fit the war Bush wanted, and probably a load of BS. I never believed that Iraq could launch missiles that could hit western countries in half an hour or whatever BS they were telling us.

Even when they sent the unfortunate general out to BS the UN it looked dodgy to me.

Bush the younger wanted a war in Iraq and didn't care how he got it.

Blair's shame is that he became Bush's poodle, and dragged Britain into it, wasting 10 years in which he could have transformed Britain into a great country, then running away and leaving Gordon to carry the can to defeat.

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It was pretty obvious to me, and many others at the time that the US was trying to make the facts fit the war Bush wanted, and probably a load of BS. I never believed that Iraq could launch missiles that could hit western countries in half an hour or whatever BS they were telling us.

Even when they sent the unfortunate general out to BS the UN it looked dodgy to me.

Bush the younger wanted a war in Iraq and didn't care how he got it.

Blair's shame is that he became Bush's poodle, and dragged Britain into it, wasting 10 years in which he could have transformed Britain into a great country, then running away and leaving Gordon to carry the can to defeat.

 

"Blair's shame is that he became Bush's poodle, and dragged Britain into it, wasting 10 years in which he could have transformed Britain into a great country, then running away and leaving Gordon to carry the can to defeat."

 

are you an empire seeker/builder?

 

UK ain't great now (I assume that because the barstool occupants always ramble about Britain and great again)

had it not been for Blair and his follies Britain would have more than ripples to rule at this stage!

 

angrit bah!

 

 

Edited December 20, 20196 yr by melvinmelvin

General election results for Labour over the last 40 years.

 

Defeat Callaghan

 

Defeat Foot

 

Defeat Kinnock

 

Defeat Kinnock

 

Win Blair  

 

Win Blair

 

Win Blair

 

Defeat Brown

 

Defeat Milliband

 

Defeat Corbyn

 

Defeat Corbyn

 

 

Spot the pattern.