U.S. Senate rejects Democratic bid for documents in Trump impeachment trial

[Sujo]

Just now, WalkingOrders said:

I appreciate your additional supposition about the President having no Curiousity, but the President's words on the transcript seem to contradict you.

Not a transcript. And it supports the dems. 

 

Oh you want some aid? Does us a favor.

[WalkingOrders]

10 minutes ago, Sujo said:

are you a shareholder in burisma? If not, its none of your business who a private company employs and for what reason. Z already stated that. Nothing there.

 

At the other end of the spectrum. Public office. How are the credentials of jared and ivanka.

Actually as an American Citizen it is my business, and the Senate is taking action on that and possibly the DOJ. Rest assured on that.

[WalkingOrders]

3 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Yeah bolton mulvaney et al. Just heresay.

 

Bolton will have lots to say.repubs will have to answer why they refused him when it comes out. Will not be good for them.

You can hope, but my view has always been that I could care less if Trump screemed at Z and directly told him on the call no aid unless you check into Biden. I am Ok with that, dont think its impeachable either, cant stand Bolton, so thats that, but that didnt happen, but Bolton has nothing to say. Just another punk who wants to write a book cuz he got fired is all he is to me.

[WalkingOrders]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

You have a very imaginative interpretation of that meeting notes summary that is not a transcript.  You also have ignored all the sworn testimony about Rudy Giuliani and company.

Not one single witness to the call, not a single one, had any testimony to suggest the transcript was altered to reflect another truth. You are attempting to cast doubt on the trascript. The witnesses, all of them, included Lt Col Vindman disagree.

[WalkingOrders]

1 hour ago, candide said:

Interesting. Source?

Live Interview on Fox news. Surely you can find that.

[JHolmesJr]

34 minutes ago, Sujo said:

What evidence do you have to call the bidens corrupt.

Haven't you heard?

While Biden Sr was VP and pointman on Ukraine, his son

took employment in a corrupt Ukrainian oil company where he was paid $85,000

a month...all without attending any meetings or showing any competence in that sector.

Smells rancid to me.

[Tippaporn]

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

So please tell us what wrongdoing and what crime Hunter committed.  If you have none, you just smearing. 

  

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

So you bought into the Biden conspiracy theory.  I'm not surprised.  I bet you were also one of the birthers and maintain Trump was the one who got Obama to release his birth certificate.

Prosecutor Shokin files a complaint against Joe Biden for interference in Ukraine’s legal proceedings.  This is 3 days old.  Google Ukrainian National Bureau of Investigation + ViKtor Shokin + Joe Biden to take your pick of articles and the English translation of the complaint.

 

No smearing.  This is real.  The floodgates have been opened.  Pandora has been let out of the box.  The genie is out of the bottle.

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Tippaporn

[metisdead]

Some more off topic posts and the replies have been removed. 

 

A post containing insults and a reply has been removed.

[mogandave]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

You described armored Humvees as blankets.  That was worth correcting.

 

I don't recall Obama pushing for Ukraine to be included in NATO, or interference in Ukraine politics.  Can you justify that claim without using Russia Today as a source?

 

Once again, Trump was "condemned" for withholding Congressionally approved aid, and pushing for the announcement of investigations of conspiracy theories.

He was only condemned by the left.

[mogandave]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Ah yes, crooked Pam Bondi.  The Florida AG who sold out the Florida victims of the Trump University scam for a $25k donation to her re-election campaign.   https://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/stateroundup/tracing-the-controversy-of-trumps-25000-donation-to-pam-bondi/2292544/

 

The fact that you find her credible says something about you.

And the fact that you would condemn her without any investigation or charges being filed speaks to yours. 
 

 

[mogandave]

1 hour ago, candide said:

I see. Let's wait for an official announcement then....

Yes, I’m still waiting for your “official announcement”. 
 

I don’t see the “New Yorker” as any more reliable than Hannity 

[heybruce]

38 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Not one single witness to the call, not a single one, had any testimony to suggest the transcript was altered to reflect another truth. You are attempting to cast doubt on the trascript. The witnesses, all of them, included Lt Col Vindman disagree.

Assuming the phone notes are correct, they can be summarized as:

 

Zelensky does the expected flattery and assures Trump he stayed in a Trump hotel.

Zelensky asks for military aid.

Trump says "I want you to do us a favor though" and asks for investigations of nonsense conspiracy theories.

 

The sworn testimonies go well beyond confirming this, they also detail the lengths Trump in company went to lay the groundwork for the quid-pro-quo and detailed the importance Trump placed on the public announcement. 

[heybruce]

10 minutes ago, mogandave said:

He was only condemned by the left.

By "left" you also mean people like long time conservative Republicans such as George Will and Max Boot.  The Republicans that don't believe the President is above the rule of law.

[heybruce]

32 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

  

Prosecutor Shokin files a complaint against Joe Biden for interference in Ukraine’s legal proceedings.  This is 3 days old.  Google Ukrainian National Bureau of Investigation + ViKtor Shokin + Joe Biden to take your pick of articles and the English translation of the complaint.

 

No smearing.  This is real.  The floodgates have been opened.  Pandora has been let out of the box.  The genie is out of the bottle.

 

I did the search you asked for and found this:

 

"At the heart of Congress' probe into the president's actions is his claim that former Vice President and 2020 Democratic frontrunner Joe Biden strong-armed the Ukrainian government to fire its top prosecutor in order to thwart an investigation into a company tied to his son, Hunter Biden. "

"But sources ranging from former Obama administration officials to an anti-corruption advocate in Ukraine say the official, Viktor Shokin, was ousted for the opposite reason Trump and his allies claim."

"It wasn't because Shokin was investigating a natural gas company tied to Biden's son; it was because Shokin wasn't pursuing corruption among the country's politicians, according to a Ukrainian official and four former American officials who specialized in Ukraine and Europe."   https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/03/what-really-happened-when-biden-forced-out-ukraines-top-prosecutor/3785620002/

 

I also found that Viktor Shokin, the fired prosecutor, is now asking for an investigation of Joe Biden.  I wonder why it took his so long?

[candide]

2 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

I want him to take his time...let the Bidens stew in their own corrupt juices for a bit.

In case he really does it (he's been already  talking about it for 6 month), he will surely take his time, in order to make sure the final conclusions are not known before elections.

[candide]

1 hour ago, WalkingOrders said:

There is no need to call another witness to contradict testimony that is either irrelevant, hearsay, or not true, and already shown to be so. The Trump Attorney's did a fine job without needing additional witnesses.

 

I will prove it. Here I make up something false, obviously so and without any facts. I say you murdered someone.

 

Do you now need a witness to prove you didnt murder someone? Does a lack of allibi prove the case against you?

 

How about you have a motive does that prove a case against you?

 

But if the witnesses against you go on the stand, and your Attorney's prove them liars, or mistaken, or to be presenting only supposition and hearsay, the prosecution against you crumbles. You have no need to call any more witnesses. Despite a motive, and lack of a witness to an alibi.

 

Thus the Perry Mason moment never arrived. Never was needed by the defense, and the House had acresponsibility to button down the case before the dared to bring it to the Senate! They failed!

 

 

 

 

Let's follow your example. You are a murderer. Witnesses saw you with a gun in your hand entering the victim's home right before the murder, Other witnesses plus text messages show that your main accomplice told them to buy a gun for him and also to threaten the victim. Etc..

Now let's imagine that the people who went with you into the vistim's house at the time of the crime refuse to testify whether or not you committed the crime.

 

[candide]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

Yes, I’m still waiting for your “official announcement”. 
 

I don’t see the “New Yorker” as any more reliable than Hannity 

The New Yorker was quoting Trump. Same quotes in plenty of other sources 

[candide]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

I did the search you asked for and found this:

 

"At the heart of Congress' probe into the president's actions is his claim that former Vice President and 2020 Democratic frontrunner Joe Biden strong-armed the Ukrainian government to fire its top prosecutor in order to thwart an investigation into a company tied to his son, Hunter Biden. "

"But sources ranging from former Obama administration officials to an anti-corruption advocate in Ukraine say the official, Viktor Shokin, was ousted for the opposite reason Trump and his allies claim."

"It wasn't because Shokin was investigating a natural gas company tied to Biden's son; it was because Shokin wasn't pursuing corruption among the country's politicians, according to a Ukrainian official and four former American officials who specialized in Ukraine and Europe."   https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/03/what-really-happened-when-biden-forced-out-ukraines-top-prosecutor/3785620002/

 

I also found that Viktor Shokin, the fired prosecutor, is now asking for an investigation of Joe Biden.  I wonder why it took his so long?

Exactly! Actually the Obama administration was complaining that shokin was not investigating.....Burisma

"Sept. 24, 2015 – U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt excoriates officials in the Prosecutor General’s Office for stymying anti-corruption investigations, including those involving Burisma...

......the ambassador criticizes “officials at the PGO’s office” for not providing documents that were needed for the British investigation of Burisma owner Zlochevskiy and effectively allowing Zlochevskiy to transfer $23 million of what Pyatt says were Ukrainian taxpayer assets to Cyprus. In other words, Pyatt is critical of the prosecutor’s office for not aiding in investigations of Burisma’s owner, which was in line with Biden’s criticism that the office was blocking corruption investigations. Pyatt specifically called for the investigation and removal of officials who were involved in the failure to help the British authorities investigate Zlochevskiy....

 

Quote from the ambassador's statement in September 2015

"For example, in the case of former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevskiy, the U.K. authorities had seized 23 million dollars in illicit assets that belonged to the Ukrainian people. Officials at the PGO’s office were asked by the U.K to send documents supporting the seizure.

Instead they sent letters to Zlochevskiy’s attorneys attesting that there was no case against him. As a result, the money was freed by the U.K. court and shortly thereafter the money was moved to Cyprus.

The misconduct by the PGO officials who wrote those letters should be investigated, and those responsible for subverting the case by authorizing those letters should – at a minimum – be summarily terminated.”

https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/timeline-trump-giuliani-bidens-and-ukrainegate/

Edited February 1, 2020 by candide

[Fred white]

17 hours ago, Sujo said:

Except the senators swore an oath before the trial. Its ok with you that they perjure themselves.

They all swore an oath of office and 99.9% of them violate it ????

[riclag]

7 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Like the Capone days when politicians can be bought to look the other way. 

Capone lol . Mr. Alexander Hamilton seen these kind of days of improprieties by the radical dems side of the peoples house,get over it! 

Edited February 1, 2020 by riclag

[WalkingOrders]

3 hours ago, candide said:

Let's follow your example. You are a murderer. Witnesses saw you with a gun in your hand entering the victim's home right before the murder, Other witnesses plus text messages show that your main accomplice told them to buy a gun for him and also to threaten the victim. Etc..

Now let's imagine that the people who went with you into the vistim's house at the time of the crime refuse to testify whether or not you committed the crime.

 

That's quite a story. Did they refuse to answer questions on the witness stand? Purgure themselves, or defy a subpoena? The crime here is murder

 

In the impeachment case - the entire world knows what was said on the call. The testimony of witnesses was none of them witnessed a crime, or impeachable offense, both parties to the call have stated they had no issues with the call. No crime. So what is this all about?  And the President will not be removed from Office. 

[WalkingOrders]

3 hours ago, candide said:

Exactly! Actually the Obama administration was complaining that shokin was not investigating.....Burisma

"Sept. 24, 2015 – U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt excoriates officials in the Prosecutor General’s Office for stymying anti-corruption investigations, including those involving Burisma...

......the ambassador criticizes “officials at the PGO’s office” for not providing documents that were needed for the British investigation of Burisma owner Zlochevskiy and effectively allowing Zlochevskiy to transfer $23 million of what Pyatt says were Ukrainian taxpayer assets to Cyprus. In other words, Pyatt is critical of the prosecutor’s office for not aiding in investigations of Burisma’s owner, which was in line with Biden’s criticism that the office was blocking corruption investigations. Pyatt specifically called for the investigation and removal of officials who were involved in the failure to help the British authorities investigate Zlochevskiy....

 

Quote from the ambassador's statement in September 2015

"For example, in the case of former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevskiy, the U.K. authorities had seized 23 million dollars in illicit assets that belonged to the Ukrainian people. Officials at the PGO’s office were asked by the U.K to send documents supporting the seizure.

Instead they sent letters to Zlochevskiy’s attorneys attesting that there was no case against him. As a result, the money was freed by the U.K. court and shortly thereafter the money was moved to Cyprus.

The misconduct by the PGO officials who wrote those letters should be investigated, and those responsible for subverting the case by authorizing those letters should – at a minimum – be summarily terminated.”

https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/timeline-trump-giuliani-bidens-and-ukrainegate/

And why was Hunter Biden getting paid?

[WalkingOrders]

5 hours ago, Sujo said:

Not a transcript. And it supports the dems. 

 

Oh you want some aid? Does us a favor.

No one has disputed that the record of this call is not an accurate record of the call. You are really trying to lie very hard here. Those words were not spoke on the call. Not even close.

[mogandave]

3 hours ago, candide said:

The New Yorker was quoting Trump. Same quotes in plenty of other sources 

So it wasn’t an official DOJ announcement as you claimed. 
 

 

[WalkingOrders]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

By "left" you also mean people like long time conservative Republicans such as George Will and Max Boot.  The Republicans that don't believe the President is above the rule of law.

Neo-conservatism arose from the Left. Look it up.

[mogandave]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

By "left" you also mean people like long time conservative Republicans such as George Will and Max Boot.  The Republicans that don't believe the President is above the rule of law.

I don’t know anyone that thinks Trump is above the law. 
 

Who are George Will and Max Boot?

 

 

[heybruce]

9 hours ago, mogandave said:

And the fact that you would condemn her without any investigation or charges being filed speaks to yours. 
 

 

I have no doubt that Pam Bondi put on a show that delighted the Trump base.  However she presented no credible evidence that either Joe or Hunter Biden did anything illegal.  And if you want to start investigations based only on appearances, we have a lot of investigations to start on Trump and family.

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

And why was Hunter Biden getting paid?

Doesn't matter.  I would speculate that Burisma thought they would get more than they did, but no one has come up with evidence they got anything for the money.  However that's not our problem.

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

Neo-conservatism arose from the Left. Look it up.

So both the left and neo-conservatives believe the President is not above the law, and only the Trump base believes that he is.  I'd love to see Trump campaign on this "Above the law" platform.

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, mogandave said:

I don’t know anyone that thinks Trump is above the law. 
 

Who are George Will and Max Boot?

 

 

You are definitely not a reader.