U.S. Senate rejects Democratic bid for documents in Trump impeachment trial

[candide]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

This is patently false as the British money laundering probe, ultimately resolved in favour of Zlochevskiy and resulting in his recouping of the $23 million, occurred under the former prosecutor, Vitaly Yarema.  Yarema was, in fact, forced to resign over this very incident of his corrupt handling of the case, thereby paving the way for Shokin to assume the position of 13th Prosecutor General of Ukraine.

I agree with you that the events leading to the recouping of 23m occurred before Shokin took office. However, he obviously did not try to change it or even investigate the people responsible for it. The IMF also threatened to retain funds, and as the EU asked for Shokin to be fired because he did not fight corruption. It's never been a secret

https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/timeline-trump-giuliani-bidens-and-ukrainegate/

 

Anyway, I am glad to see that after months of claiming that Biden did a QPQ to stop Burisma from being investigated, you now acknowledge that there was no investigation so that the ridiculous conspiracy theory

[Tippaporn]

1 minute ago, candide said:

I agree with you that the events leading to the recouping of 23m occurred before Shokin took office. However, he obviously did not try to change it or even investigate the people responsible for it. The IMF also threatened to retain funds, and as the EU asked for Shokin to be fired because he did not fight corruption. It's never been a secret

https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/timeline-trump-giuliani-bidens-and-ukrainegate/

 

Anyway, I am glad to see that after months of claiming that Biden did a QPQ to stop Burisma from being investigated, you now acknowledge that there was no investigation so that the ridiculous conspiracy theory

Why you refuse to watch the videos only you can answer.

 

However, he obviously did not try to change it or even investigate the people responsible for it.

 

Patently false.  Grossly false.  Absolutely false.  The videos go into in depth.

 

The IMF also threatened to retain funds, and as the EU asked for Shokin to be fired because he did not fight corruption.

 

Also explained in the video series.

 

You must understand that corruption must protect itself.  What, do you think?  They're just going to lay down and admit to their crimes?  LOL  The media is used in full force to protect the corrupt via disinformation.  Plain as the nose on your face.

[WalkingOrders]

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

I think this link dispel your concern. Sure this link has been posted but sometimes it takes patience to convince that there really nothing to see here. I did my bit if this help you. 
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-gas-company-burisma-holdings-joe-bidens-son-hunter-explained-2019-9

Someone else here posted an exellent link on Ukraine gate from a French outfit. I think you should go have a look. As for this -seriously? This is just noise. Go have a look, its one or two pages back. 

[WalkingOrders]

On 2/2/2020 at 2:08 PM, Tippaporn said:

Mods.  I'm posting a link to an independent French investigator who is investigating UkraineGate which deals not only with the Bidens but corruption in the Ukraine in general.  It is impossible for me to have this fact checked.  So, I bringing this to your attention as I do not want another suspension for linking to an "unapproved" source.  This investigative team is legit, French and so therefore not partial to an American or Ukrainian viewpoint but if in your view you find the source objectionable then by all means remove this post but please do not penalize me for attempting to uncover the real truth.

 

This link is to Part 2 of their investigation.  It discusses their findings as to whether or not Shokin's investigation into Burisma was truly dormant.  What they find is indeed eye-popping.  Their investigation also includes analysis of U.S. media reports upon the announcement of Shokin's removal.  Also, they did a comprehensive analysis of all media reports after the Trump/Zelensky call scandal broke on Sept. 23, 2019.  They found the Washington Post "hammering down this pro-Biden narrative" at least 20 times in the first four days (articles displayed in the video) using almost identical language to state that Shokin's investigation had been "dormant."  These articles were authored by 15 different journalists.  In the coming month of October there were at least another 30 articles by the Washington Post (articles also displayed in the video) and again using the same copy pasted claim that Shokin's investigation was dormant.

 

Also contained within the video is evidence which discusses former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt's excoriation of PGO officials.  Never did he mention Shokin (proven by videos of Pyatt's speech at the Odesa Financial Forum on September 24, 2015) and in fact he makes mention that the U.S. government wanted to work with Shokin (also shown in the video from the end of Pyatt's speech).  The Washington Post ran an article on October 2nd, 20219 with the headline:  "Correcting a media error:  Biden's Ukraine showdown was in November 2015."  The article opens with, "Pyatt kicked off the effort in a speech on Sept. 24, 2015 in which he blasted Shokin for "opening and aggressively undermining reform" and having "undermined prosecutors working on legitamate corruption cases."  Another example of a most egregious failure of journalist integrity as the story was entirely meant to mislead and protect Biden.

 

This investigation has been the most complete and intensive I've yet to see.  The first 3 parts have been completed and from the site they have Parts 4 thru 8 greyed out with captions of "Coming soon."  Each part is approximately an hour long, so those interested will need to invest some time.

 

To candide:  The Part 2 video, as well as Part 3 (where they interview a number of individuals with either expertise or direct knowledge) dives deep into how and why former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevskiy was able to recoup the seized $23 million from U.K. authorities and also how he was able to get all investigations into his company, Burisma, closed (within a mere 3 months) by the "solid" investigator Lutsenko, who had been recently imprisoned for corruption himself but also had zero legal experience.

 

All in all the many facts (facts, not hearsay, opinion, supposition, etc.) presented in the videos are quite damning regarding the Bidens.  I highly encourage those readers, who like myself have a burning desire to know the truth and not some spun up version propagated by corrupt individuals specifically to protect their criminality, to view this investigative series.

 

Also, I sincerely hope this post is not considered "off topic" as the topic subject matter regards the Dems demands for "documents" in the Senate trial.  Were the Dems demands for witnesses voted by the Senate in favour then the Bidens would most likely have become witnesses, in which case documents the Dems would like to keep hidden would have surfaced.  Also, as I've stated many times before, the above information is critical in determining Trump's true motives in requesting assistance into corruption originating in the Ukraine.  If the Bidens are indeed corrupt then the entire basis for the impeachment would utterly be blown to smithereens.  This information speaks to the core of the impeachment.  I remind readers again that Lindsey Graham has promised to invite Giuliani to testify in the Senate once the impeachment debacle has run it's course.

 

Edit:  forgot the link

 

https://ukrainegate.info/part-2-not-so-dormant-investigations/

 

This is the most significant news posted on this thread. Well done. Absolutely, real journalism here, well done to these journalist, and to you for posting. Excellent.

[Eric Loh]

14 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Someone else here posted an exellent link on Ukraine gate from a French outfit. I think you should go have a look. As for this -seriously? This is just noise. Go have a look, its one or two pages back. 

It was a good reading link. Just need to be substantiated with competent evidence to charge. DOJ and AG staffed with Trump’s appointees and nothing. They are not doing their work. Disappointed. 

[Tippaporn]

8 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

This is the most significant news posted on this thread. Well done. Absolutely, real journalism here, well done to these journalist, and to you for posting. Excellent.

It's interesting that certain posters are still, still trying to maintain a false narrative despite the fact the video series does an exceptional job explaining it all with facts and documentation.  It's beyond me why they don't want to view it for themselves.  Ah, well.

 

Do check out the OAN series as well.  Another excellent piece chock full of documented facts and interviews.  Between the OAN and the French series they're both corroborative.

 

Interesting, too, that Googling "Giuliani podcast" won't come up with the site until page 2.  The first two items that come up are hit pieces by NBC News and the Daily Beast.  Information warfare.  The OAN series is linked there.

[WalkingOrders]

19 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

It was a good reading link. Just need to be substantiated with competent evidence to charge. DOJ and AG staffed with Trump’s appointees and nothing. They are not doing their work. Disappointed. 

It was a series of 3 videos, essentially a documentary. 

[Sujo]

39 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Someone else here posted an exellent link on Ukraine gate from a French outfit. I think you should go have a look. As for this -seriously? This is just noise. Go have a look, its one or two pages back. 

I think you need a thread about biden to satiate your intetest in why trumps admin is not investigating.

 

Which of course has nothing to do with what trump was impeached for.

[Sujo]

15 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

It's interesting that certain posters are still, still trying to maintain a false narrative despite the fact the video series does an exceptional job explaining it all with facts and documentation.  It's beyond me why they don't want to view it for themselves.  Ah, well.

 

Do check out the OAN series as well.  Another excellent piece chock full of documented facts and interviews.  Between the OAN and the French series they're both corroborative.

 

Interesting, too, that Googling "Giuliani podcast" won't come up with the site until page 2.  The first two items that come up are hit pieces by NBC News and the Daily Beast.  Information warfare.  The OAN series is linked there.

You have been suspended before for posting questionable links, you say. 

 

One should maybe reconsider your views considering the dites you frequent.

 

Posting about OAN is not doing you any favors either.

 

You do understand that even if the bidens ordered an assasination of someone it is still irrelevant to why trump was impeached. Its just deflection.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/31/2020 at 6:45 PM, WalkingOrders said:

Well hopefully the Senate will vote to REJECT the Impeachment articles tomorrow.

According to Al Jazira final vote will be on Wednesday.

I was hoping it would have been on Friday last, but apparently the senators love to talk so much they want to spin it out till the inevitable verdict.

I can just imagine the uproar that would ensue if he was convicted on the, IMO, sham that has been presented by the Dems. I didn't watch much of it, as far too boring, but from what I saw, Trump's team demolished the Dem house managers case. I also thought it rather cunning of Jay Sekulo ( spelling? ) threatening to recall every witness for cross examination, the implication being that it would take several weeks more, when the GOP senators, IMO, just want to get out of the place to go campaign for re election.

[Chomper Higgot]

53 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Why you refuse to watch the videos only you can answer.

 

However, he obviously did not try to change it or even investigate the people responsible for it.

 

Patently false.  Grossly false.  Absolutely false.  The videos go into in depth.

 

The IMF also threatened to retain funds, and as the EU asked for Shokin to be fired because he did not fight corruption.

 

Also explained in the video series.

 

You must understand that corruption must protect itself.  What, do you think?  They're just going to lay down and admit to their crimes?  LOL  The media is used in full force to protect the corrupt via disinformation.  Plain as the nose on your face.

“You must understand that corruption must protect itself.”

 

You are catching up at last.

[Sujo]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

According to Al Jazira final vote will be on Wednesday.

I was hoping it would have been on Friday last, but apparently the senators love to talk so much they want to spin it out till the inevitable verdict.

I can just imagine the uproar that would ensue if he was convicted on the, IMO, sham that has been presented by the Dems. I didn't watch much of it, as far too boring, but from what I saw, Trump's team demolished the Dem house managers case. I also thought it rather cunning of Jay Sekulo ( spelling? ) threatening to recall every witness for cross examination, the implication being that it would take several weeks more, when the GOP senators, IMO, just want to get out of the place to go campaign for re election.

If you didnt watch it you may wish to do so before commenting.

 

And just why shouldnt the senate call all relevant witnesses. Thats their job, to conduct a trial, they swore an oath to it.

 

The dems even put forward that the chief justice decide which witnesses should be called but it seems repubs didnt trust him to do that.

 

Its ok tho, the repubs are generallly admitting trump did wrong but not an impeachable offence. More details will come out and people will be asking why the repubs refused to do their sworn duty.

[Tippaporn]

19 minutes ago, Sujo said:

I think you need a thread about biden to satiate your intetest in why trumps admin is not investigating.

 

Which of course has nothing to do with what trump was impeached for.

You can repeat that lines as often and as loudly as you want.

 

Trump's request was either legitimate or it wasn't.  If it was legitimate then the Dem narrative is destroyed.  That is the relevancy of the Bidens.

 

By all means, carry on.

[candide]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Why you refuse to watch the videos only you can answer.

 

However, he obviously did not try to change it or even investigate the people responsible for it.

 

Patently false.  Grossly false.  Absolutely false.  The videos go into in depth.

 

The IMF also threatened to retain funds, and as the EU asked for Shokin to be fired because he did not fight corruption.

 

Also explained in the video series.

 

You must understand that corruption must protect itself.  What, do you think?  They're just going to lay down and admit to their crimes?  LOL  The media is used in full force to protect the corrupt via disinformation.  Plain as the nose on your face.

I am not going to lose my time watching videos made by a pro-Russia blogger. When he will write texts with sources, etc.. I will read it.

Anyway, if true, as mentioned by other posters, that would be a blatant case of dereliction of duty by the DOJ.

As also mentioned by other posters, it does not change the fact that Trump made an abuse of power in order to publicly discredit a political opponent.

[candide]

4 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

You can repeat that lines as often and as loudly as you want.

 

Trump's request was either legitimate or it wasn't.  If it was legitimate then the Dem narrative is destroyed.  That is the relevancy of the Bidens.

 

By all means, carry on.

No. It would have been legitimate if there had been an official investigation only.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Thats their job, to conduct a trial, they swore an oath to it.

That argument was demolished by one of Trump's lawyers.

The Dems should have done all that in the house BEFORE presenting the articles. Hamilton foresaw exactly this situation where one party makes a frivolous impeachment and expects the senate to do their job for them.

The Dems are the ones making the accusations. Why would the GOP senators help the Dems do their job?

 

BTW, although it's described as a trial it isn't really. The senate makes its own rules, and it's political, not criminal.

Amuses me to hear some people claim there is a "precedent" for witnesses when there has only been two impeachments before. Hardly binding.

[Tippaporn]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

According to Al Jazira final vote will be on Wednesday.

I was hoping it would have been on Friday last, but apparently the senators love to talk so much they want to spin it out till the inevitable verdict.

I can just imagine the uproar that would ensue if he was convicted on the, IMO, sham that has been presented by the Dems. I didn't watch much of it, as far too boring, but from what I saw, Trump's team demolished the Dem house managers case. I also thought it rather cunning of Jay Sekulo ( spelling? ) threatening to recall every witness for cross examination, the implication being that it would take several weeks more, when the GOP senators, IMO, just want to get out of the place to go campaign for re election.

I can envision a scenario where the totality of the corruption gets exposed.  In which case, as is now happening with the Mueller case and related cases stemming from the investigation possibly being invalidated due to the invalidity of several of the FISA applications, it's entirely conceivable that the impeachment gets nullified.  If it is shown definitively that the impeachment was groundless and deliberately ill conceived then it's only logical.

[Mavideol]

6 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

You can repeat that lines as often and as loudly as you want.

 

Trump's request was either legitimate or it wasn't.  If it was legitimate then the Dem narrative is destroyed.  That is the relevancy of the Bidens.

 

By all means, carry on.

if what Trump did is acceptable why not have a trial with witnesses, with that only 2 outcomes guilty or not guilty and that way Dems will have nothing to moan about.... easy peacy like 1, 2 and 3, why is he going out of his way to block witness, e-mails, phone records, taxes records and so on.... but as my coach used to say "the best defense it's attacking" and that Trump is doing great, yelling, discrediting the opposition, making false accusations, by doing so it will remove people's attention from the main facts, same as inviting "crooked" Netanyahu and claiming to make a peace deal with Israel and Palestine, ALL of the circus to distract peoples attention from the impeachment, nothing else, just distraction

[codebunny]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That argument was demolished by one of Trump's lawyers.

The Dems should have done all that in the house BEFORE presenting the articles. Hamilton foresaw exactly this situation where one party makes a frivolous impeachment and expects the senate to do their job for them.

The Dems are the ones making the accusations. Why would the GOP senators help the Dems do their job?

 

BTW, although it's described as a trial it isn't really. The senate makes its own rules, and it's political, not criminal.

Amuses me to hear some people claim there is a "precedent" for witnesses when there has only been two impeachments before. Hardly binding.

Precisely. The Do'h!mocrats were warned that all this would come to nothing, yet on they pressed, wasting everyone's time, including their own. Now they have to find a credible charismatic leader to help them try and win an election. Running out of time now... D'oh!

[WalkingOrders]

2 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

if what Trump did is acceptable why not have a trial with witnesses, with that only 2 outcomes guilty or not guilty and that way Dems will have nothing to moan about.... easy peacy like 1, 2 and 3, why is he going out of his way to block witness, e-mails, phone records, taxes records and so on.... but as my coach used to say "the best defense it's attacking" and that Trump is doing great, yelling, discrediting the opposition, making false accusations, by doing so it will remove people's attention from the main facts, same as inviting "crooked" Netanyahu and claiming to make a peace deal with Israel and Palestine, ALL of the circus to distract peoples attention from the impeachment, nothing else, just distraction

It appears to me, that the Senate is about to vote down an attempt to remove the President that was the most partisan in history. A sham.

 

That means the Constitution works.

It also seems that the so called conspiracy theory about the Bidens has some teeth to it, and never was debunked. On the contrary, it never was brought into the light.

 

The origins of the Trump investigation, the Mueller Report, and the dirty tricks of the Dossier, and FISA warrants, are also in the light. John Durham will make results known in the summer.

 

This is what you get!

 

God Bless America!

[WalkingOrders]

14 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

if what Trump did is acceptable why not have a trial with witnesses, with that only 2 outcomes guilty or not guilty and that way Dems will have nothing to moan about.... easy peacy like 1, 2 and 3, why is he going out of his way to block witness, e-mails, phone records, taxes records and so on.... but as my coach used to say "the best defense it's attacking" and that Trump is doing great, yelling, discrediting the opposition, making false accusations, by doing so it will remove people's attention from the main facts, same as inviting "crooked" Netanyahu and claiming to make a peace deal with Israel and Palestine, ALL of the circus to distract peoples attention from the impeachment, nothing else, just distraction

I love Netanyahu. A good man!

[Mavideol]

18 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I can envision a scenario where the totality of the corruption gets exposed.  In which case, as is now happening with the Mueller case and related cases stemming from the investigation possibly being invalidated due to the invalidity of several of the FISA applications, it's entirely conceivable that the impeachment gets nullified.  If it is shown definitively that the impeachment was groundless and deliberately ill conceived then it's only logical.

as soon as somebody disagrees with you or challenges your non sense comments you get on a defensive.... Trumpism at it's best 555

[Mavideol]

1 minute ago, WalkingOrders said:

I love Netanyahu. A good man!

not surprised at all....  as the old saying goes " birds of the feather flick together"

[Tippaporn]

31 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

as soon as somebody disagrees with you or challenges your non sense comments you get on a defensive.... Trumpism at it's best 555

Feel free to challenge the facts I present anytime.  The above is nothing more than a slight.

[candide]

7 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Feel free to challenge the facts I present anytime.  The above is nothing more than a slight.

Which facts? 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

if what Trump did is acceptable why not have a trial with witnesses, with that only 2 outcomes guilty or not guilty and that way Dems will have nothing to moan about.... easy peacy like 1, 2 and 3, why is he going out of his way to block witness, e-mails, phone records, taxes records and so on.... but as my coach used to say "the best defense it's attacking" and that Trump is doing great, yelling, discrediting the opposition, making false accusations, by doing so it will remove people's attention from the main facts, same as inviting "crooked" Netanyahu and claiming to make a peace deal with Israel and Palestine, ALL of the circus to distract peoples attention from the impeachment, nothing else, just distraction

The only result that the Dems will accept, IMO, is Trump found guilty. When he is found not guilty they will continue on, IMO, with their crusade against him, regardless of witnesses being heard or not. Makes no difference, IMO, whether the senate had witnesses or not, so don't waste any more time and end the circus ASAP.

Their play is pretty obvious, if one thinks about it, given the pathetic bunch that has assembled to contest the election for the Dems.

I pity the poor citizens being subject to a continuation of the past 3 years for another 5 years.

[mogandave]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The only result that the Dems will accept, IMO, is Trump found guilty. When he is found not guilty they will continue on, IMO, with their crusade against him, regardless of witnesses being heard or not. Makes no difference, IMO, whether the senate had witnesses or not, so don't waste any more time and end the circus ASAP.

Their play is pretty obvious, if one thinks about it, given the pathetic bunch that has assembled to contest the election for the Dems.

I pity the poor citizens being subject to a continuation of the past 3 years for another 5 years.

Exactly. They would have drug the “trial” out until the election and would have never have accepted any outcome but guilty. 
 

The’ve been claiming he’s guilty for three years, why would they stop now? 
 

Remember after the Mueller repot? The same sheep were all bleating he was not “exonerated” of collusion, and that the report actually PROVED he was guilty of obstruction. 

I wonder why the left didn’t include obstruction of justice charges and all the corresponding “proof” in the articles?

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Exactly. They would have drug the “trial” out until the election and would have never have accepted any outcome but guilty. 
 

The’ve been claiming he’s guilty for three years, why would they stop now? 
 

Remember after the Mueller repot? The same sheep were all bleating he was not “exonerated” of collusion, and that the report actually PROVED he was guilty of obstruction. 

I wonder why the left didn’t include obstruction of justice charges and all the corresponding “proof” in the articles?

 

 

Perhaps because they don't have any actual "proof".

[WalkingOrders]

2 hours ago, Sujo said:

You have been suspended before for posting questionable links, you say. 

 

One should maybe reconsider your views considering the dites you frequent.

 

Posting about OAN is not doing you any favors either.

 

You do understand that even if the bidens ordered an assasination of someone it is still irrelevant to why trump was impeached. Its just deflection.

This reads like a threat, or an admonishment. I find this highly distasteful, especially considering the quality of the information that was posted by Tippaporn that was

 filled with first hand interviews.

 

Bringing up someones previous (alleged) suspension is way out of order. How would you know the reasons for another members suspensions, and who are you to put such accusations against someone? Bad behavior.

 

[WalkingOrders]

3 hours ago, Sujo said:

You have been suspended before for posting questionable links, you say. 

 

One should maybe reconsider your views considering the dites you frequent.

 

Posting about OAN is not doing you any favors either.

 

You do understand that even if the bidens ordered an assasination of someone it is still irrelevant to why trump was impeached. Its just deflection.

The last paragraph here pretty much sums up the definition of a true believer.

 

"Even if the Bidens ordered an asassination of someone it is still irrelevant"

 

The entire Democrat case is that the President abused his power for self gain, and was not serving the interest of the American people when he brought up the Biden name.

 

There you have the logic folks, coupled with total blindness to right and wrong, and the basic concept of justice. It simply does not matter what the Bidens did. How dare the President of the USA, even dare to claim to care.