Gentle Warning To Songkran Revellers.

[p1p]

I have concerns about posting this, but can see no real alternitive.

My non-Thai security contacts have intimated that Chiang Mai is at the very top of their threat list for the next few weeks.

If you will be joining the Songkhran celebrations in Chiang Mai, please take great care and keep your eyes out for anything that feels out of the ordinary. Be safe and take no risks.

[realthaideal]

Do your non-Thai informers work in security or consult at a governmental level ? And does anybody out there know any high-ups in CM who might be able to give us a feel for this too ?? Seems like a reasonable chance given things as they are right now, yet could all amount to nothing quite easily as well. probably good for us to all keep eyes open during the season.

[chanchao]

I have a hard time seeing anyting that would look ordinary during Songkran..

Also, maybe this was more obvious in the context in which you received the warning, but what exactly is the threat? Something terrorism related you mean? (Would suicide bombs still work after being thoroughly soaked? )

Still, thanks for the warning..

Guess you can't put more of a source to this? And separately: why wouldn't the source warn the general public (or their citizens, in case of a foreign country, etc.) ? This is a genuine question by the way: WHY would they not warn? They seem to warn at the slightest worry or incident normally?

Edited April 4, 2007 by chanchao

[p1p]

Do your non-Thai informers work in security or consult at a governmental level ?

.... yet could all amount to nothing quite easily as well. probably good for us to all keep eyes open during the season.

My contacts are in security, working for a non-Thai government. The warning was addressed to me personally to take extra care of my family at this time. I felt it was of a sufficiently "interesting" nature to post on the board here. However, as you point out, it will almost certainly amount to nothing

Just, please take a litle extra care this year. It can do no harm.

[coldcrush]

All magor events are a target now, so one must be vigilant at all times during festive season and large gatherings of any sort.

Thanks for your warning p1p.

[Gonzo the Face]

Thanks for the warning advisory P1P....

I can honestly say that I can think of no time of the year when my family or myself may be safer.... that is if you consider 'laying low" as being safe....With this holiday, laying low is most sensible......

Gonzo

[Crow Boy]

I have concerns about posting this, but can see no real alternitive.

My non-Thai security contacts have intimated that Chiang Mai is at the very top of their threat list for the next few weeks.

If you will be joining the Songkhran celebrations in Chiang Mai, please take great care and keep your eyes out for anything that feels out of the ordinary. Be safe and take no risks.

thanks p1p - with the number of western and locals in CM for the week it makes a good target and the event is a serious affront to certain religious and political groups.

valid warning but should also add to all members to take care on the roads - this is always a very dangerous time of year and many people are not used to riding on the very slippery roads on motorcycles with skinny tyres.

Please be safe out there - the death toll is always high, don't add to the numbers

CB

[chanchao]

Right... that's always a good thing to keep in mind.. Even if the second-worst terrorist disaster in history were to strike, the traffic death toll would still be higher.

So to add to the warning: Be EXCEPTIONALLY careful on the roads, and long road trips are best not undertaken at all.

Edited April 5, 2007 by chanchao

[john b good]

Do your non-Thai informers work in security or consult at a governmental level ?

.... yet could all amount to nothing quite easily as well. probably good for us to all keep eyes open during the season.

My contacts are in security, working for a non-Thai government. The warning was addressed to me personally to take extra care of my family at this time. I felt it was of a sufficiently "interesting" nature to post on the board here. However, as you point out, it will almost certainly amount to nothing

Just, please take a litle extra care this year. It can do no harm.

From Australian DFAT (Dept of Foriegn Affairs & Trade) last week.....

Terrorism

There is a high threat of terrorist attack in Thailand. We continue to receive reports that terrorists may be planning attacks against a range of targets, including tourist areas and other places frequented by foreigners.

In planning your activities, consider the kinds of places known to be terrorist targets. These include places frequented by foreigners such as embassies, shopping malls, clubs, hotels, restaurants, bars, schools, churches, outdoor recreation events and tourist areas. Public buildings, and public transport, airports, sea ports, are also potential terrorist targets.

The increase in violence in Southern Thailand (see below) may lead to attacks elsewhere in Thailand, including Bangkok and other tourist areas, such as Phuket and Pattaya. Thai authorities have taken additional security measures in other parts of the country, including tourist centres and Bangkok.

"abridged"

[JuniorExPat]

I have concerns about posting this, but can see no real alternitive.

My non-Thai security contacts have intimated that Chiang Mai is at the very top of their threat list for the next few weeks.

If you will be joining the Songkhran celebrations in Chiang Mai, please take great care and keep your eyes out for anything that feels out of the ordinary. Be safe and take no risks.

thanks p1p - with the number of western and locals in CM for the week it makes a good target and the event is a serious affront to certain religious and political groups.

valid warning but should also add to all members to take care on the roads - this is always a very dangerous time of year and many people are not used to riding on the very slippery roads on motorcycles with skinny tyres.

Please be safe out there - the death toll is always high, don't add to the numbers

CB

CB

Excuse my being a dunce here but who sees Songkran as a serious affront?

JxP

[Gimbo]

CB

Excuse my being a dunce here but who sees Songkran as a serious affront?

JxP

Probably everyone of a fundamentalistic approach to one of the monotheistic religions. They seem to take an affront to everything that is fun

[chanchao]

> Probably everyone of a fundamentalistic approach to one of the monotheistic religions.

>They seem to take an affront to everything that is fun

Yes, or just generally so many people around. Like, "alive" and with all their limbs in tact and even their heads still attached to their torsos and everything! Bet that's a big affront.

[realthaideal]

"...should also add to all members to take care on the roads - this is always a very dangerous time of year and many people are not used to riding on the very slippery roads on motorcycles with skinny tyres."

I think folks is already driving crazy out there. More chalk outlines of downed bikes and crashed cars on the the streets. Quite a few. I always notice more of these this time of year. And last night, was I just in a weird headspace, or was everybvody driving super fast and super crazy on Hang Dong and Changklan ? I think the holiday driving spirit is already here !

[Crow Boy]

CB

Excuse my being a dunce here but who sees Songkran as a serious affront?

JxP

The festival has a large number of issues:

Songkran is the start of traditional Thia New Year as based on the solar cycle (sun moving from Pisces into Aries) it originates from India and in Thailand it is a Buddhist festival. Many Moslems refuse to accept it because the Islamic New Year works on a different sequence. Therefore they view Songkran as an affront to the Muslims and another example of the majority (Buddhist) forcing them (Muslim) to accect a different code

However in more recent times the festival has taken on additional characteristics offensive to Muslim extremists and fundamentalists:

Alcohol - Muslims are prohibited by religion to drink alcohol (so are Buddhists for that matter but what the heck). Songkran is a festival which is fueled on alcohol.

Sex - semi naked women/girls with revealing see through wet clothes is an affront to Muslims (and many Buddhists but what the heck)

In places like Chiang Mai there are a large number of farung who get drunk and run around the streets with minimal clothing. To the Muslims this is adding fuel to the fire and consequently it offends them - also offends many Buddhists but what the heck

So in conclusion the actual festival offends many fundamentalist Muslims, the activities of the residents and guests to Chiang Mai offends them but unlike the Buddhists who are offended and simply don't take part in these non traditional parts, there is a percentage that some nut bag extremist will let off a car bomb in the moat area and kill/maim large numbers of people who are simply enjoying themselves.

Of course there are the small grumpy brigade of farungs who harrump and scowl and say things like "it wasn't like this in the old days when I arrived here". They generally just load up TV forums with several hundred posts telling everyone who doesn't care that they are escaping the madness with the family to places abroad.

Hope that explains

CB

[BlackArtemis]

A most likely place would be central, good thing I have a hotel room at orchid far away from... o crap... Well least it was free!

[sigmondfreed]

As a student of human behavior, I always try to bring things down to the observable 'nitty gritty' of any message regarding suggesting a change in my actions, so I have to comment on this string.

What, exactly, are people supposed to do when given a 'high terrorist activity warning'?

I suppose staying locked inside your room is probably the safest. But that is boring. O.K., so I am supposed to 'avoid large crowds of people'. Where is that? And if I do, won't I be an 'isolated target'. But then I suppose I am supposed to 'blend in'. How? I am a foreigner with blond hair. Should I dye it black and put on skin darkening lotion?

O.K., so I am advised to 'avoid drawing attention to myself' and 'be wary of strangers'. I have a physical disability and get stared at ALL THE TIME. What do I do? EVERYONE, practically, that I pass on the sidewalk is a stranger. Again, what, specifically is being advised?

And please, don't get me started on those insipid 'Baby on Board' signs on the back of cars (as if I WAS going to crash into the back of them EXCEPT that now I know there is a BABY ON BOARD)...uh oh...what if the car is in the parking lot with it's windows rolled up...oh no!!!

Just ranting...

[p1p]

And please, don't get me started on those insipid 'Baby on Board' signs on the back of cars (as if I WAS going to crash into the back of them EXCEPT that now I know there is a BABY ON BOARD)...uh oh...what if the car is in the parking lot with it's windows rolled up...oh no!!!

Love those signs don't you. The height of crass idiocy. People just have to drive close enough to read them and never see the brake lights when doing so. Whoopsie!

Even worse are those pictures of half herrings - but we won't go into that.

[Donnyboy]

And please, don't get me started on those insipid 'Baby on Board' signs on the back of cars (as if I WAS going to crash into the back of them EXCEPT that now I know there is a BABY ON BOARD)...uh oh...what if the car is in the parking lot with it's windows rolled up...oh no!!!

Love those signs don't you. The height of crass idiocy. People just have to drive close enough to read them and never see the brake lights when doing so. Whoopsie!

Even worse are those pictures of half herrings - but we won't go into that.

best one I saw was "IF YOU CAN READ THIS, YOURE TO F&%KING CLOSE"

[Donnyboy]

CB

Excuse my being a dunce here but who sees Songkran as a serious affront?

JxP

The festival has a large number of issues:

Songkran is the start of traditional Thia New Year as based on the solar cycle (sun moving from Pisces into Aries) it originates from India and in Thailand it is a Buddhist festival. Many Moslems refuse to accept it because the Islamic New Year works on a different sequence. Therefore they view Songkran as an affront to the Muslims and another example of the majority (Buddhist) forcing them (Muslim) to accect a different code

However in more recent times the festival has taken on additional characteristics offensive to Muslim extremists and fundamentalists:

Alcohol - Muslims are prohibited by religion to drink alcohol (so are Buddhists for that matter but what the heck). Songkran is a festival which is fueled on alcohol.

Sex - semi naked women/girls with revealing see through wet clothes is an affront to Muslims (and many Buddhists but what the heck)

In places like Chiang Mai there are a large number of farung who get drunk and run around the streets with minimal clothing. To the Muslims this is adding fuel to the fire and consequently it offends them - also offends many Buddhists but what the heck

So in conclusion the actual festival offends many fundamentalist Muslims, the activities of the residents and guests to Chiang Mai offends them but unlike the Buddhists who are offended and simply don't take part in these non traditional parts, there is a percentage that some nut bag extremist will let off a car bomb in the moat area and kill/maim large numbers of people who are simply enjoying themselves.

Of course there are the small grumpy brigade of farungs who harrump and scowl and say things like "it wasn't like this in the old days when I arrived here". They generally just load up TV forums with several hundred posts telling everyone who doesn't care that they are escaping the madness with the family to places abroad.

Hope that explains

CB

Definately NOT me. Will be experiencing my 3rd Songkran and looking forward to it. Got my splash googles ready and since my soaker gun is outlawed now, will upgrade to a squat toilet water scooper/flusher.........dont worry Ill wash it first.... maybe.....you better hope I dont splash you

[Physherman]

>> What, exactly, are people supposed to do when given a 'high terrorist activity warning'?

Use common sense and be aware of your surroundings. Nothing will save lives as much as awareness of surrounding and use of common sense.

>> I suppose staying locked inside your room is probably the safest. But that is boring. O.K., so I am

>> supposed to 'avoid large crowds of people'. Where is that?

That's where the common sense part comes in. Obviously, on Sunday around 2-5pm the area around Thapae Gate and the top of Loi Khraw will be packed with foreigners. So why not throw your water from Chiang Puak Gate or somewere in between. Same people. Same water. Just less tourists and less chance of danger without inconveniencing your Songran fun! No need to avoid the fun. Just use common sense while you are!

>>O.K., so I am advised to 'avoid drawing attention to myself' and 'be wary of strangers'.

How about make that read "be aware of strangers?" Obviously if you're a tourist, everyone is a stranger. But haven't you ever felt some odd vibes from individuals? Or watch someone who wasn't taking part in an activity but was standing in the middle of it just looking around? Odd behavior? Be aware of your surroundings. Be aware of the activities of others. Be aware.

>> Again, what, specifically is being advised?

Awareness and common sense. Judging by the actions of a lot of backpack tourists, there is a severe shortage of common sense going around. In just what country is it safe for a young woman to be walking alone down a dark back alley or empty beach at 3am? But it goes on here and everyone is surprised when she get's attacked.

>> And please, don't get me started on those insipid 'Baby on Board' signs on the back of cars

I never could figure out of that meant you should or shouldn't hit them. Exactly what is our goal?

The Fly Fisherman

[BlackArtemis]

So the super soaker my Wife bought me for my Birthday is out? Pfft I will test my luck. These are the same guns I used when I was 8 years old and I still have both eyes...

[Crow Boy]

So the super soaker my Wife bought me for my Birthday is out? Pfft I will test my luck. These are the same guns I used when I was 8 years old and I still have both eyes...

But that wasn't with the water from our moat It has lumps in it

CB

[Bananaman]

And please, don't get me started on those insipid 'Baby on Board' signs on the back of cars (as if I WAS going to crash into the back of them EXCEPT that now I know there is a BABY ON BOARD)...uh oh...what if the car is in the parking lot with it's windows rolled up...oh no!!!

Love those signs don't you. The height of crass idiocy. People just have to drive close enough to read them and never see the brake lights when doing so. Whoopsie!

Even worse are those pictures of half herrings - but we won't go into that.

best one I saw was "IF YOU CAN READ THIS, YOURE TO F&%KING CLOSE"

The one that says "Monkey(s) on board" gets me. Oh the irony of it!!!

[PeaceBlondie]

With trepidation, I headed around the moat today around 1:30 pm, and was happy that nobody was throwing water. At each corner of the moat, and a few places inbetween, wet Thais were swimming in the moat. At the southwest corner, nearest the Night Market, kids were even jumping off the ramparts of the castle, into the moat. Good, clean fun. Maybe semi-clean.

The public pool is closed 13-16 April. All of Chiang Mai will be a public pool.

[Ulysses G.]

My guess is that the water-throwing will start slowly around 11AM-12PM the day after tomorrow and will be going pretty strong by afternoon (Wed. 11 April).

Any bets?

[mcgriffith]

At intersection of Huay Kaew and Canal Rd., westbound waiting for the light today around 2 PM, saw a beater pickup with some teenage mountain folk careen around the corner, with the 55 gal drum, buckets, etc. They threw a few ineffectual splashes that reached no one. But the cool thing is that all my surrounding motorcyclists started up a mutter of "aw sh-t, not already..."

[Crow Boy]

My guess is that the water-throwing will start slowly around 11AM-12PM the day after tomorrow and will be going pretty strong by afternoon (Wed. 11 April).

Any bets?

The roads around San Kamphaeng had a dozen or so groups having a good time dousing cars and bikes BUT they would wave and smile to anyone who shook a hand to politely request not to be wet. I am guessing it will start tomorrow (Wednesday) with Thursday being the real kick up, then from Friday on it will be a free for all.

CB

[Crow Boy]

I spoke to Mark - Miguel's Mexican and he said that cars/pickups etc will be banned from the inner and outer moat roads over the Songkran festival. We also assume it will include motorcycles and make the place a huge pedestrian only area during the day.

Anyone have any confirmed details on this?

Secondly - my local market was selling high pressure tubes and water guns last night when I went through town. There were a couple that would make you look like Rambo holding a M60 machine gun. The problem would be keeping up on the ammo (water)

CB

[Ulysses G.]

I kind of hope it isn't true about only pedestrian traffic although it would be much safer.

It is traditional to fight with trucks full of pretty girls and I am a real traditionalist!

[Crow Boy]

I kind of hope it isn't true about only pedestrian traffic although it would be much safer.

It is traditional to fight with trucks full of pretty girls and I am a real traditionalist!

I still think I am one of those responsible for that

In '78-79 I was on base up on the Mae Rim road and one of my guys in my unit said we should load up a truck and have some fun in town. As an officer I could easily requisition a vehicle so we went down there to get a flat bed but spotted one of the fire trucks a 2,000 litre water tank on back. We loaded up, and about 20 guys from the unit headed into town. In those days, yes kids - in the ye olde days before those ###### farung backpackers and tourists came to Thailand - things were more genteel and it was mainly the kids and younger adults who tossed water. The Mae Rim road was much narrower then, about a lane and a half wide and almost all of the motor vehicles belonged to the Army. The kids on the side of the road had the small yellow buckets and took water out of the big clay urns common back then. As we went past our guys started tossing water at them and they loved it. There wasn't that much traffic but a lot more bicyles - we went past a bunch of school girls on bicycles and all the guys kept quiet until we got next to them and then dumped about 200 litres of water on them. They started screaming and laughing and tried to throw water back at us but didn't have a chance. These girls are probably the mothers who now tell their daughters to not play with the crazy white folk and worry because it wasn't like that in the old days.

We still had heaps of water and running out of road so headed into town and managed to get into lots of water tossing around the old Kam Paen Din road and Thapae. We headed up to the moat area which had two way traffic on the inner and outer rings and the kids were diving into the water. One of my guys had the brain storm idea of starting up the fire hose which ran of a petrol powered pump. He started hosing people with a 2" fire hose which knocked the poor kids arse over from the banks and into the moat. It must hurt to get hit but when we drove around the whole outer ring road they were lining up waiting for us to come back for a second blast.

After about a hour of this we had to fill up so dropped the snorkel into the moat and hit the reverse on the pump and filled up the tank again with what was then very suspect water. And off we went - a little while later one of my guys said that a couple of cops on bicycles (most didn't have motorbikes then) where chasing us and shouting - so they decided to have a bit of fun and hit these poor guys with a full blast of water at FULL pressure. It flung them off their bicycles and they hit the road screaming at us.

We headed back to the base and when we got back I left the guys to clean the vehicle, refuel it, and refill the tanker. On the way back to the Officer's mess a young Thai soldier came over and told me I had to see the Boss Farung. He had been called by the police to say that a group of farung soldiers had been causing mayhem in CM town with a fire truck and wanted us arrested for assaulting the police (the guys on the bicycles) and civilians. The CO was a very tough, disciplined career soldier and he asked me if it was true that we had taken a vehicle without his permission, gone into town, and done all this. I said it was correct and he said "why didn't you tell me - I would have gone with you" We went in each day over the holiday (3 days) and repeated it.

The next year - one of my guys took 40 slabs of ice from the Ice Works and put them into the tank - filled it with water and so we became the first people to use ice water in Chiang Mai.

So if anyone starts to say - "it wasn't like that in the old days" - tell to get over it because it was and still is a lot of fun.

CB