Investment Visa

[Jean123]

Hello all

 

   Under 50, I am considering the 10 Million Baht investment (either in the form of a condo purchase, bank deposits, or combination of both) which supposedly allows you to stay in Thailand. I am still a bit confused here though about a few details...
 

1- Can you enter Thailand on a tourist visa, either purchase a condo and/or bank deposit, then apply for that investment visa?
2- I read you had to have a non-immigrant visa before applying for that 10M investment visa, how could I do that provided I am still under 50? Is there a non-immigrant visa I shall apply to before starting all the procedures in Thailand? (in essence, condo and bank deposit)?

3- I guess I'm pretty much wrong about everything, so I would greatly appreciate if any of you had already gone through this ordeal, and could explain the steps to take...

Thank you very much,

 

Jean

[DrJack54]

Current thread on this. Most your questions covered there. 

I'm only one mug in the crowd. Forget it.

Buy an elite visa. Great option.

Stick the 10big in shares.

[ubonjoe]

1/2 You can enter the country on a tourist visa. Open a fixed deposit account at a Thai bank and transfer the 10 million baht into it and then apply for a 90 day non immigrant visa (category B) entry at immigration. 

Requirments for the visa applicaiton is here. https://division1.immigration.go.th/download/1551328469690.pdf .

Then during the last 30 days to the 90 day entry from the visa apply for a one year extension of stay based upon investment.

General requirements are here. https://division1.immigration.go.th/content/Visa_Extension5

[landosmiles]

I'm also working towards an investment visa. Because it involves keeping noticeable funds at the bank, the interest rate, and therefore the bank, matter.
Although the government explicitly permits those without a work permit, etc. to apply for the visa, banks might not let you open the account. In BKK I've visited 6 GSB (Government Savings Bank) and 2 LH Bank branches. All started with "work permit?" and even after showing them the investment visa process, no luck.
I'm currently trying to find an agent to see if they can assist.

 

In case it helps others I created a Google Sheet comparing the banks.

 

Also, thank you @ubonjoe!

[landosmiles]

On 1/29/2020 at 9:35 PM, DrJack54 said:

Current thread on this. Most your questions covered there. 

I'm only one mug in the crowd. Forget it.

Buy an elite visa. Great option.

Stick the 10big in shares.

@DrJack54 I'm not sure if you meant to link a thread but I don't see a link, sorry.

At least comparing a fixed deposit account in Thailand vs. a fixed deposit account in the US, an investment visa is more advantageous financially (and even more so if your stay duration doesn't correspond exactly to the elite visa length) - I would imagine an investment visa would also be even more advantageous if you're coming from a part of the developed world that has even lower (or negative) interest rates.

I would imagine that the stock market wouldn't be considered comparable risk to a fixed deposit account so it isn't a good comparison, but if that's your comparison, then yes, an elite visa could come out ahead. Common investing advice is to have a mix of stocks and safer investments, so I'm planning to put part in a Thai fixed deposit account while leaving other funds in stocks.

 

I created a Google Sheet comparing elite vs. investment for me, and then tried to make it consumable by others. You can see it at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WM8u3P7z0sc8KfneuDby_bTdetj_dWbHjCg4HZoJRaU/ - if any feedback let me know.

[Just Weird]

8 minutes ago, landosmiles said:

In BKK I've visited 6 GSB (Government Savings Bank) and 2 LH Bank branches. All started with "work permit?" and even after showing them the investment visa process, no luck.
I'm currently trying to find an agent to see if they can assist.

Why were GSB and LH the first banks you went to?  I'm surprised that you haven't you approached the 'usual' retail banks; you have plenty of choice, BBL, Kasikorn, UOB, Krungsri, SCB, KTB, etc., before trying to find an agent.

[landosmiles]

3 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

Why were GSB and LH the first banks you went to?  I'm surprised that you haven't you approached the 'usual' retail banks; you have plenty of choice, BBL, Kasikorn, UOB, Krungsri, SCB, KTB, etc., before trying to find an agent.

@Just Weird Thanks. To keep 10 million THB deposited for the investment visa, I believe you'd earn 142K/yr in interest at GSB, compared to 100K/yr at BBL, for example. I uploaded the figures to https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xUTT2oE3ZuHpLXXWPHeU3FPpN1t109CUMYFnqvwboG4/

 

Also, I was guessing that UOB (United Overseas Bank) wasn't majority Thai owned and therefore would be ineligible for the investment visa?

 

Am I off-track on the items above?

[Jean123]

thank you all for your feeback, it is all very informative.  I did once visit Standard Chartered and Citibank in BKK - both branches around Chitlom, and both replied they needed some sort of work permit or residence visa in order to open an account. As you mentioned landosmiles, even after showing them the investment visa process (thank you ubonjoe for the PDF forms) if it did not work out, does anyone have an idea on how to proceed?

 

(As a sidenote, I once visited a condo with a Sansiri salesperson, and she mentioned that with the SPA (sales and purchase agreement) you could go directly to a bank and proceed with the account opening? She mentioned at the time the Bangkok Branch near Nana usually does that). In this case though, I would think you would have to 1) purchase a condo first 2) open a bank account 3) transfer the 10 M baht, and since you have to " Must have evidence of investing in the purchase or rental of a condominium unit for a period of no less than 3 years " according to regulation, it means you have to buy the condo + invest 10 M baht in addition of the condo... Am I getting it right? Unless there is a way to open a bank account without buying a condo and wait for three years to be considered for the visa extension alongside the bank deposit? 

Have you landosmiles tried to go to HQ of those Thai majority owned banks and see whether they would be better informed? Im supposed to be there in early Feb, is there anyone that stands out? SCB Krungsri, Krungthai Kasikorn?

Thank you all for your feedback

[Jean123]

Just found this

 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/-/media/files/personal/other-services/branch-services/international-branches/fcd_expat.pdf?la=en&hash=1B0B689C0A49EEFBB89232262CF1DAF23FC55920

 

[Just Weird]

4 hours ago, landosmiles said:

Also, I was guessing that UOB (United Overseas Bank) wasn't majority Thai owned and therefore would be ineligible for the investment visa?

 

Am I off-track on the items above?

The requirement is that the funds have to be deposited in a Thai bank; UOB is a Singaporean bank but UOB (Thai) PCL (where your money would be deposited) is a Thai bank.   I don't believe that the share ownership of the bank is specified as far as the Investment Visa deposit is concerned.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Just Weird

[landosmiles]

@Jean123 For your questions about bank accounts, it should be possible to open a bank account at certain banks, yes - including multiple types of accounts at Bangkok Bank - but not the banks with the highest fixed deposit interest rates, per my shared Thai bank returns spreadsheet.

 

I recommend Googling a little more about opening a Thai bank account, or check out https://www.thethailandlife.com/thai-bank-account-foreigners (including recent comments) (or maybe https://www.expatden.com/thailand/thai-bank-accounts/ ).

 

17 hours ago, Jean123 said:

Have you landosmiles tried to go to HQ of those Thai majority owned banks and see whether they would be better informed?

From reading others' experiences online, it was more about each branch perhaps doing things differently. Multiple GSB branches called someone (headquarters?) after I persisted, but I have no reason to believe that visiting headquarters would help. A couple places recommended to call their help line, but I also haven't done that.

 

17 hours ago, Jean123 said:

Unless there is a way to open a bank account without buying a condo and wait for three years to be considered for the visa extension alongside the bank deposit?

I recommend to Google a little more - perhaps on (Thai OR Thailand 10-million OR 10,000,000 visa) - but from what I've read online, no - condo versus deposit are independent methods. Additionally, condo purchase is typically - is the mention of 3 years in regards to the mentioned "rental" of a condo - but I don't know how 10 million could be applied to a condo rental?? Current discussion of the condo 3 year thing at:

 

However, I haven't been pursuing the condo route.

 

15 hours ago, Just Weird said:

UOB (Thai) PCL (where your money would be deposited) is a Thai bank.   I don't believe that the share ownership of the bank is specified as far as the Investment Visa deposit is concerned.

@Just Weird Thank you. However, I don't believe that is correct. From the requirements that ubonjoe linked above (and in the other requirements lists I have seen), if depositing 10 million THB into a fixed deposit, it specifically states "with a bank which is registered in Thailand and has Thai nationals holding more than 50 percent of its shares." My guess is that this would eliminate Bank of China (Thai), CIMB, Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (Thai), UOB, and Citibank at least?

 

Merely to help link others to relevant discussions, there are multiple existing threads on investment visa in these forums, including a recent thread here:

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by landosmiles

[landosmiles]

As an upate for those interested in the investment visa (non-condo) route: I visited 6 GSB branches, 2 LH branches, and 1 TMB branch. All started by asking me "work permit?" but even after explaining that I'm not working and showing them the investor visa page, it was a no-go. Krunsri said OK, although now I don't know if Krungsri meets the Thai government`s requirement that it be "a bank which is registered in Thailand and has Thai nationals holding more than 50 percent of its shares" - I'm trying to confirm that now.

[Jean123]

Interesting... landosmiles, and thanks for the update. When you went to Krungsri, did you not ask them at the same time whether it is a bank in which "Thai nationals hold more than 50 percent of its shares"? According to their website, it looks like MUFG (Japanese bank) is holding more than 76% of their assets (Krungsri is thus a subsidiary of MUFG)... but then, who knows what kind of corportate structure they put in place.... maybe MUFG has created a Thai Subsidiary (with Thai ownership above 50%) which also owns the Krungsri... In corporate finance deals, it would not be unusual.

 

https://www.krungsri.com/bank/en/Other/AboutUs/Overview.html

[landosmiles]

On 2/17/2020 at 1:05 PM, Jean123 said:

When you went to Krungsri, did you not ask them at the same time whether it is a bank in which "Thai nationals hold more than 50 percent of its shares"?

Thanks. As you alluded to, I had ended up both opening a Krungsri account and then realizing on my own that the majority of shares seemed to be owned by that Japanese bank, not Thai nationals as required. In my experience, whether speaking in-person with staff or online messages, I haven't trusted the information I've been given enough to proceed with it - staff often don't seem to know their banks ownership structure, they aren't familiar with what the government is requiring, and my lack of Thai doesn't help. Similar issues with getting definite answers from immigration. These forums can be great, but there are few existing posts on this kind of visa, likely as it isn't common. Personally I'd guess it's ~55% likely Krungsri would have been allowed, but due to worries about 1) that I'd have to do an another expensive 10M THB wire out of Thailand and then back in again if the first bank wasn't allowed, and 2) timing, I ended up going with Bangkok Bank instead.

(Sorry that I didn't see your reply until now.)

[JackThompson]

20 hours ago, landosmiles said:

Thanks. As you alluded to, I had ended up both opening a Krungsri account and then realizing on my own that the majority of shares seemed to be owned by that Japanese bank, not Thai nationals as required. In my experience, whether speaking in-person with staff or online messages, I haven't trusted the information I've been given enough to proceed with it - staff often don't seem to know their banks ownership structure, they aren't familiar with what the government is requiring, and my lack of Thai doesn't help. Similar issues with getting definite answers from immigration. These forums can be great, but there are few existing posts on this kind of visa, likely as it isn't common. Personally I'd guess it's ~55% likely Krungsri would have been allowed, but due to worries about 1) that I'd have to do an another expensive 10M THB wire out of Thailand and then back in again if the first bank wasn't allowed, and 2) timing, I ended up going with Bangkok Bank instead.

(Sorry that I didn't see your reply until now.)

Great spreadsheet info.  Please keep us posted. 

 

It should also be noted that this provides a Non-B permitted-stay - a "Non-Imm" category - unlike the Elite, which does  not have this status.  With this visa, one could qualify to apply for a work-permit. 

If earning and paying Thai-taxes on a sufficient amount / year, one could also apply for PR - impossible no matter how long here on the Elite.