Feed for small buisness egg production

[finnsk]

I have maked a little egg farm close to Lamphun.

At this moment with 400 laying hens.

I am thinking about expand to around 1000 laying hens.

But ..... now I am buying Betagro at a local store and the profit percent is not optimal.

I have writed and searched to find a place to buy for small farmers, I have asked at CP and Betagro, but they do not have any interess to sell directly to a little farm buisness like this.

When I have expanded I will use around 3,5 ton feed every month.

Do anybody in here know some pro sellers for small farmers (not petshops)

[kickstart]

The problem is in Thailand layers ,and pigs could be included in this,it is either the multi thousand units ,owned by the likes of Betagro, CP,or small farms like your self .

Unless you put in a feed bin and get a 15 ton load of feed come in ,( not economical sense )you are stuck with your pet shop.

In my area they is a shop that sells only  poultry and pig food in bags ,they buy it in by the 15? ton load ,and would sell it cheaper than a pet shop ,been doing it for a good few years now, most is Betagro feed,

They must be a place like the above near you ,ask other small farmers like your self in your area  ,Thai Facebook ?.

Some where on this forum is a thread about mixing  a layer feed your self  ,buying in the raw ingredients ,Google would have some rations ,but then  again you would have to source the ingredients ,might work.

[finnsk]

Thanks for your answer Kickstart

 

Yes I feel the problem as you descripe it, if you are not a very big agro farm, the feed producers will not sell direct to you, they only give you some addresses at some pet shop resellers, who are selling their own brands.

 

I have talked with many resellers, they do not have big profit I think, they can not make good offers.

 

To make a good little egg buisness, the feed must not cost more than around 45-50 % off the income.

 

The resellers offer prices where the feed costs is around 66% of the income, nobody can make good income with these feed prices.

 

I have tried to mix some feed, by myself and I am only a beginner, but I can not reach the same egg production numbers, as I can when I am using ready mixed layer feed, I still need to find a good prescription I think. And here I must buy very big bulk amounts of soya, mais, vitamins etc, if I shall make a good price and even with 1000 layers I can not use all that feed.

 

So I still hope I can find a supplier who can offer pro feed prices.

 

 

 

 

 

[IsaanAussie]

We had some 36 Rhode Island Reds which were feed with Betagro layer feed, 924 I think. One bag a week and some greens and rice etc.. was sufficient to feed the birds. We got about 24 eggs a day, we ate some and sold the rest to the villagers. Basically our eggs were free and the sales covered the feed cost. We made a few baht profit I suppose.

I did look at pelletising feed by buying in component ingredients in bulk amounts around 100kg from the local farm feed store. There was no great saving and the quality of the materials often unreliable, but it can be done.   

I wish you well and hope you achieve your goals. To be honest, I would firstly establish I could sell that many eggs per day.

 

[finnsk]

Thanks for your answer Aussie

 

I think you have some good chickens.

 

When I was starting up, my main concern, was how the egg selling would go. Thats why we started up in a lower scale, than my idea was.

But the sale is going so fine, we had the luck that there is nobody in the neighborhood who are making eggs, so we are using the sales argument: Daily fresh eggs, and it works, many people like to be sure they get fresh eggs. We are selling on 3 different local markets and have many good customers who are buying again and again, we can sell much more than we are producing now.

 

 

 

[kickstart]

On 2/2/2020 at 10:35 AM, finnsk said:

Thanks for your answer Kickstart

 

Yes I feel the problem as you descripe it, if you are not a very big agro farm, the feed producers will not sell direct to you, they only give you some addresses at some pet shop resellers, who are selling their own brands.

 

I have talked with many resellers, they do not have big profit I think, they can not make good offers.

 

To make a good little egg buisness, the feed must not cost more than around 45-50 % off the income.

 

The resellers offer prices where the feed costs is around 66% of the income, nobody can make good income with these feed prices.

 

I have tried to mix some feed, by myself and I am only a beginner, but I can not reach the same egg production numbers, as I can when I am using ready mixed layer feed, I still need to find a good prescription I think. And here I must buy very big bulk amounts of soya, mais, vitamins etc, if I shall make a good price and even with 1000 layers I can not use all that feed.

 

So I still hope I can find a supplier who can offer pro feed prices.

 

 

 

 

 

I was at our local poultry/pig feed store I asked about layer feed ,he said as they are  starting  to lay the best feed is Betagro's  104 ,which is 375 baht/bag ,I asked about discount on bulk purchase ,orders over 30 bags, discount of 5 baht/bag, not a lot of discount ,but as you say margins are tight .

This place has a good turn over ,when I drove past this morning they where loading a 6 wheel truck with feed best part of 3 ton.

How dose this compare to where you are ,by the way I am in lopburi province .  

[finnsk]

Thanks for your answer/research Kickstart

 

I am now paying 355 bath a 30 kg sack Betagro/Balance 923 M for laying hens, when I pick up min. 20 sacks, I think it is a good pet shop price, but still not a good farm price.

 

I am in Lamphun, but I am ready to take some distance to pick up, I hope maybe to find a supplier in Chiang Mai.

 

I have maked some experiments with the food. When I mix the food by my self, (not the best prescription, but good price pr kg) I can reach about  0,65 egg pr hen pr day. Now I am giving 100% Betagro at this moment they make 0,75 egg pr day and it is still going up, I hope I can reach about 0,82 egg pr day. It shows me that food quality is the main factor, if I want an effective eggproduction

 

 

 

[thoongfoned]

try the "smaler" bagged feed surpliers like sunfeed ,spf ect... if you contacted them direct it might help. have a look around your area for a feed mill, the tansport costs will be high if you have to have it trucked in 100's of km...

we have the 10 wheeler trucks in every month, 600 30k bags is how they are loaded, they travel up from just a little north of bkk to us, its about 450km door to door, they always run back down empty..... i think they  used to charge around 20 bath a bag delivered/unloaded... (last time i asked was years ago... could ave gone up by now) this is a large lorry firm that work all the time for a large feed producer.

 

[finnsk]

Hi Thoongfoned

 

Thanks for all your good information.

 

I will immidiately follow your advice and contact the suppliers you suggest.

 

I have some ideas about transport, we are living in a Lom yai area, we have trucks going loaded with fruit from north to BKK and go empty back, its just an idea, but I have a nabo who is making these transports, I think he would be happy to get return loads.

[thoongfoned]

maybe do some google search in thai for feed mills/different smaller companies, try and join some facebook groups that deal/talk in/about chicken/eggs, would think again mainly in thai. its been said on here before about the locals love for facebook.....

i would think that most of the larger mills will be in the greater bkk area, but some must be making there way north, as business spreads...

the thai foods group might be worth a look, about the 3rd largest pig producer in thailand so would think they would do chickens ect... cargils and such would also produce feed... try and look and see who's who in the egg/chicken world here in thailand and work through the list...

 

[thoongfoned]

another idea, would be expensive to start thoughh... a silo...

[finnsk]

Thanks Thongfoned for using your time

 

I can confirm that all the thais I know, they love Facebook, my wife to. Only difficult for me to use FB in Thai language and my wife is not so strong in writing and reading thai, but she is very very good to talk it ????

 

I am thinking about silo to, it will make worklife much more easy, but then I must have finded the reliable supplier who can deliver in that way

 

 

[thoongfoned]

google b inter   (its a part of the betagro group) silo info

or key man farm tech

or asia vet tech.

we have used all the above companies over the years

do you buy any of the aggricutual magazines, loads of info, but all in thai.....

[finnsk]

Thanks Thongfoned for all your information.

 

You give me a lot of "homework" thanks for that.

[farmerjo]

10 minutes ago, finnsk said:

Thanks Thongfoned for all your information.

While your at it Thongfoned????

Seen any caravans for egg production in Thailand.

 

[khwaibah]

Just out and for info.

 

 

[thoongfoned]

1 hour ago, farmerjo said:

While your at it Thongfoned????

Seen any caravans for egg production in Thailand.

 

funny you should say that... looked at a system where they had mobile hen houses that were towed (moved) every few weeks after the cow/pig had been grazin.....(not in thailand, but could work here with a few tricks)

i think a good idea is have the hens living over a "pond" and all the waste goes in the water for the fish.... can remember someone posting about how to move the water at he bottom of the pond by some guy that was in the north that sold the eggs over the border, fish being a nice side line....

for you farmerjo, was watching something frm the uk (oxford) the other day about a farm that sells all veg at a profit that grows some weeds that go down a long way? 3/4m?  that they use to fertislise the land with, no extra in puts.. "ch4 apocalyspse cow" was the name of the program (torrent) (have to much time on my hands...555)

[farmerjo]

51 minutes ago, thoongfoned said:

funny you should say that... looked at a system where they had mobile hen houses that were towed (moved) every few weeks after the cow/pig had been grazin.....(not in thailand, but could work here with a few tricks)

i think a good idea is have the hens living over a "pond" and all the waste goes in the water for the fish.... can remember someone posting about how to move the water at he bottom of the pond by some guy that was in the north that sold the eggs over the border, fish being a nice side line....

for you farmerjo, was watching something frm the uk (oxford) the other day about a farm that sells all veg at a profit that grows some weeds that go down a long way? 3/4m?  that they use to fertislise the land with, no extra in puts.. "ch4 apocalyspse cow" was the name of the program (torrent) (have to much time on my hands...555)

I will look it up,i must be getting old.????

Did 4 hours on the tractor bouncing around today subsoiling about 3 rai.

Now always looking for easier things to do.

Back on track,the OP has an area to grow food for the chickens to supplement the feed bag requirements,what would be considered a good protein pasture besides the crawly things in the field for layers to eat.

[kickstart]

5 hours ago, finnsk said:

Thanks Thongfoned for using your time

 

I can confirm that all the thais I know, they love Facebook, my wife to. Only difficult for me to use FB in Thai language and my wife is not so strong in writing and reading thai, but she is very very good to talk it ????

 

I am thinking about silo to, it will make worklife much more easy, but then I must have finded the reliable supplier who can deliver in that way

 

 

A silo would make sense ,but the op said he only uses 3 1/2 ton /month at present ,a truck load of feed would be 15 ton ,  we have a big Betagro  feed mill near here never seen a  smaller 6 wheel truck hauling feed only 10 wheels,a lot with a trailer attached.

All right buying in a lot of feed what about the sell by date ,my cattle feed says 3 months  ,a truck load would take some shifting.

TF's idea about Thai farming mags is a good one ,have seen adverts for silos in them ,we have a lot of broiler farms in this area ,have seen some old silos having been replaced ,you might be able to find a second hand one ,would do you well .

Broiler farms around here use to be Sun Valley Farms ,then Cargills took them over ,now  just see Cargils trucks about,I would say they would only  supply they own farms? .

  

[kickstart]

On 2/4/2020 at 6:57 PM, thoongfoned said:

funny you should say that... looked at a system where they had mobile hen houses that were towed (moved) every few weeks after the cow/pig had been grazin.....(not in thailand, but could work here with a few tricks)

i think a good idea is have the hens living over a "pond" and all the waste goes in the water for the fish.... can remember someone posting about how to move the water at he bottom of the pond by some guy that was in the north that sold the eggs over the border, fish being a nice side line....

for you farmerjo, was watching something frm the uk (oxford) the other day about a farm that sells all veg at a profit that grows some weeds that go down a long way? 3/4m?  that they use to fertislise the land with, no extra in puts.. "ch4 apocalyspse cow" was the name of the program (torrent) (have to much time on my hands...555)

Rearing broiler chickens over a fish pond use to be popular in this area ,the waste use to feed the fish ,the fish where Bla Dook walking Cat Fish,Bla Sawie, Stripped Catfish ,use to work well ,the wife said it stopped because the fish use to smell  of Kee- Gie ,chicken poo.

Also the chicken sheds where made from eucalyptus poles with a grass roof ,not only cheap ,but kept the shed cool ,no tin sheets, but  2-3 years and they had rotted out.

Going off topic ,like the idea of mobile hen house ,any one thought of an out door pig unit here in Thailand ,not easy in the rainy season ,would it work.

TF would know, Thetford in Norfolk , UK very, very, light land free drainage good carrot land ,full of out door pig units.

[IsaanAussie]

12 hours ago, kickstart said:

any one thought of an out door pig unit here in Thailand ,not easy in the rainy season ,would it work.

Can show you one near me. An organic farm that has pigs out doors and form part of the land preparation/fallow periods. To be classed as truely organic, piglets should be farrowed outdoors with the sow spending the last trimester outside as well. Pastured pigs is fine in temperate zones. Here in Thailand more difficult to ensure biosecurity.

On a small scale it works. I doubt it would be considered on a large scale simply because of the extra labour involved.

I looked at a system where the breeding stock were conventionally housed. Pregnant sows then moved to pasture with small houses to farrow in. Weaned pigs then moved to large hoop houses to grow out.

[thoongfoned]

13 hours ago, kickstart said:

Rearing broiler chickens over a fish pond use to be popular in this area ,the waste use to feed the fish ,the fish where Bla Dook walking Cat Fish,Bla Sawie, Stripped Catfish ,use to work well ,the wife said it stopped because the fish use to smell  of Kee- Gie ,chicken poo.

Also the chicken sheds where made from eucalyptus poles with a grass roof ,not only cheap ,but kept the shed cool ,no tin sheets, but  2-3 years and they had rotted out.

Going off topic ,like the idea of mobile hen house ,any one thought of an out door pig unit here in Thailand ,not easy in the rainy season ,would it work.

TF would know, Thetford in Norfolk , UK very, very, light land free drainage good carrot land ,full of out door pig units.

used to visit norfolk alot, (the showground a good few times a year) yes lovely land and loads of out door pigs, many acres of hemp growing too..

breeding sows out doors here, i would try and split there time in/out with plenty of shade needed.. good animal wellfair, would like to see the psy over a couple of years..

 

[kickstart]

On 2/4/2020 at 9:51 AM, finnsk said:

Thanks for your answer/research Kickstart

 

I am now paying 355 bath a 30 kg sack Betagro/Balance 923 M for laying hens, when I pick up min. 20 sacks, I think it is a good pet shop price, but still not a good farm price.

 

I am in Lamphun, but I am ready to take some distance to pick up, I hope maybe to find a supplier in Chiang Mai.

 

I have maked some experiments with the food. When I mix the food by my self, (not the best prescription, but good price pr kg) I can reach about  0,65 egg pr hen pr day. Now I am giving 100% Betagro at this moment they make 0,75 egg pr day and it is still going up, I hope I can reach about 0,82 egg pr day. It shows me that food quality is the main factor, if I want an effective eggproduction

 

 

 

I was buying some cattle feed  today ,and I asked about layers feed,the feed my local shop sells is about 80% cattle ,this area being a big cow area .

They said Purina layers feed was 405 baht/ bag ,the other Mitraparp  was 410 baht/bag ,the Putina feed is expensive they cattle feed was ,and they cat and dog food never was cheap .

As for Mitraparp ,a local feed mill only 4 km up the road ,I think they maine feed is cattle ,poultry and pig feed are manufactured  in smaller quantities,probably can not complete with the big boy ,Betagro ,CPF .

So , your your 355 baht/bag Betago is looking like a good deal  

[thoongfoned]

few months back was talkin to a fella that farms pigs, he had then just just gone back to buying betagro... he said they had just starting to sell "b" grade labelled feed at a very good price. last time i spoke with him he was still buying the b grade, said good results, pellet size is not unformed as the other grade feed, but he is happy.